What are the better new bow's they are marketing today. I'm wanting 62 or 64 inch w/ 45lb pull.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bows/ilf-traditional-bows/ilf-take-down-risers.html?archery_type=5

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-winex-recurve-limbs.html

Or if looking for something more traditional
https://blackwidowbows.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=104_59

Best way to buy a Widow is used. They have what's called the Widow wall where owners sell used bows. PM me if you need a serial # to log on and shop.

>>What are the better new bow's they are marketing today.<<

Sometimes there is a difference in "better bows" and "marketing".

Black Widow (used), Stalker by South Cox (also has a try before buy), Fox Archery are three recurves that I would look at.

Bob Sarrels in Manchaca, Texas also makes a nice bow (I've only shot his longbows)

I have and have shot widow's for 20 years. The older I get they seem to stack worse every year. I was thinking about trying one of these DAS bows

I have one of the first 17 bows that came to 3 Rivers when they started selling the DAS bows as a Dalaa. Back then it was no secret that they used carbon Winex limbs with a Maple core. Later they started selling cheaper ( I think) limbs and dipping them so you couldn't see the edge layers.

Personally, if I was going that route again, I would buy the Trad Tech Titan with ILF fittings so you don't have to fool with changing limbs and you can use any ILF limbs without changing bushings.

I haven't shot or handled one but that Trad tech Titan 19" riser looked very nice for someone with a longer draw. You would get a 64" bow with long limbs.

I've gone to shooting 25" ILF risers for fun and competition. You can't describe how smooth a 68" recurve is with world class limbs. For hunting, I have a PLX and the Dalaa in 60". I draw 29".

Alaska Bowhunting Qarbon Nano .....with an extra set of limbs.

Alaska Bowhunting Qarbon Nano .....with an extra set of limbs.

Both of my brothers have Nano's. Both Bows the limbs have not held up. Customer service sucks also.

They looked a little gimmicky to me. You cannot go wrong with a good metal ILF riser that will allow you to adjust tiller and preload and a set of known world class limbs like Win & Win Winex. You can always put some camo tape on them for hunting. I would much rather shoot what has been proven with the Olympic shooters than something someone is hailing as the latest and greatest.

I have many thousands of arrows at slightly over 6 gpp through my Winex limbs with nary an issue.

Bear Super Kodiak. Easy to shoot, makes you look as good as you can be.

I had a Titan III (19") riser. Nice riser, but pretty expensive for what your getting. I have also owned Dryad, Morrison, Sky, Hoyt Excel, Dorado, Buffalo and several one piece wood bows. IF I were to spend big money on a new bow it would be a SKY TDX 21 w/ shorts for a 62" bow. I am currently shooting a Hoyt Dorado and shoot it as well or better than any bow or setup that I have ever owned. The grip is excellent for me. They can be found used for around $300-350.
ILF limbs can be made to work on the Dorado riser as well with swapping of a bushing.

I currently shoot a Spigerelli 650 Club 25" but I've always wanted a Best Zenit 23". I like Winex limbs.

Well, I'm certainly biased because I'm in the business but I'll gladly stand Dryad's ACS recurves & longbows up against any out there.

www.dryadbows.com

John

Brackenbury, I assume still in business. But extremely good smooth non stacking bow for us.

Anything from Bob Lee Archery.

Can't go wrong with a Schafer Silvertip.

Before I switched to 'tips, I shot a Hummingbird Kingfisher. Smooth, quiet, and accurate.

I had a Dryad Orion longbow for a while, very nice rig. I have also owned an Epic ILF riser but did not care for the high grip on it - good quality piece but with wood you get what you get. I would like to try an Oracle longbow some day. Nice to see the folks from Dryad on this site, every dealing with them I have had was top shelf.

One of the finest custom recurves and bowyer available today is a Custom Wes Wallace Bow. For those that don't know Wes, he was Jim Brakenberry's partner and bowyer before Jim died tragically on the John Day River. I have Brakenberry's, but they are not the same bow since his death. May he rest in Peace. Wes began building his own bows and carried on his long standing quality. I now have three of his bows and I am in love with all of them. Smoothest recurve I have personally drawn. Besides he is one of the greatest friends you will ever make. He lives in BeaverCreek, Oregon. Shoot straight!

There are literally dozens of companies that make quality recurves. Shoot a bunch if you can, and then make your decision.

My current favorite is a Palmer double carbon. The grip is perfect for me and I'm very accurate with it.

The ILFs are a good way to go if you like that style of bow.

That would be Brackenbury...Jim Brackenbury.

Your comment about them not being same bow...is an uneducated statement. The Legend & Phantom are now being made better today.

There are many fine custom bows out there, for a production bow I am partial to Martin's / Damon Howatt's.

If you buy a Nano you better buy a extra set! Both of the Nano's I have been around have had the limbs came unlaminated. The customer service is the worst I have ever heard of !! The bow is made by Win & Win and is a great bow when they are working, and their WARRANTY is not worth the paper it's written on!

I have an old colt in about 45# range......as smooth as their single actions IMO.

Get your ILF limbs from Lancasters. They have excellent CS. I've used it twice and it was beyond expectation.

Boy have I been out of touch with this stuff. I'd have said Great Northern, Bighorn or Dick Robertson.

Oldies but goodies!

Hunters Niche Predator recurves would be one to look at. Tried them years ago and would buy one if I was in the market for a new bow

Still very much goodies.
And less tinkering.

Sometimes tinkering can be a good thing. You don't have to continually tinker with it. You set things the way that works best for you and leave it alone.

I agree with the Black Widow choice. Good track record over time, if buying new only about 8wks wait and plenty of good one's used for sale. Also you pretty much know what your're going to get for your money and they stand behind their bows.

Only problem I have with them is they don't make a 64" PTF. 62" is the limit on it.

Rick,
There are plenty of good bows available today.

What is your main use going to be? Hunting? competition? Both? Are you going to shoot instinctive? with sights?

My view is strictly from a hunting perspective, if you are mainly wanting one for competition I would follow RH's advice.
The ILF styles work for hunting, but I prefer the KISS theory.

If are looking for some economy, Samick is a very good entry level bow. I helped coach a kid to 4H nationals with a Samick Sage this year and have a another newbie bowhunter all set up and ready to go with a Samick DeerMaster. There is some initial tuning and set up with any bow. But those Samick's have been bomb proof for them.

But the best advice I can give you is to find a place to where you can shoot multiple bows. A big Traditional shoot or a shop like RMS Gear in Arvada Colorado. Black Widow and a few other bowyers have "test" drive programs where you can try a bow for the cost of shipping.

My goto hunting bows anymore are my selfbows and three piece hybrid longbows. My take downs hardly ever get taken down. But it is very nice feature when traveling.

CRS
I don't disagree with you at all but don't think that you have to tinker with an ILF. It can be just as simple as any take down bow.

I do like that I can adjust the tiller since I like zero tiller for my three under shooting, and I like that I can tweek preload if I am just on the edge of tuned with a particular arrow and point combo, or if I have a longer draw and want a the draw force curve to max out at my draw length.

If you like to tweek and have an ILF, you probably will tweek it but it can be just as simple as any take down, except that you don't need a wrench to take it apart or put it together.

I like the versatility and that I can shoot lighter faster arrows for targets or heavier for hunting. I don't know of any other system that will stay together with a steady diet of arrows as light as 5gpp. I can only get my arrows to about 6gpp and be legal tip weight where I shoot , but I still get 215 fps from my ILF 3D bow.

thanks for the comment. That being sad this ain't new to me

My advice; Go to a good archery store that handles a good variety of bows new and used. Find one you like and buy it. Simple as that.

Yeah, I missed the post where you said you had been shooting Widows for years. I think you should try a static tip recurve if you want to stick with recurves. To me, they almost have a slight let off at full draw.

Bigfoot, Toelke or RER come to mind.

R H,
Can you get static tip limbs for ILF risers?

There are many different ILF limbs. They are some of the most technologically advanced limbs made in the world. They are not built on wooden forms in some guys garage like a lot of custom bows. Not to say that all those bows are crap, or that single shops can't produce some very good bows but they just don't have the $$$ for R&D like the big boys.

Now that's funny!

The only negative that I see with ILF limbs is that most all the manufactures out there; match their limbs via a weight/bend test. In other words they are not true matched limbs. Your 45 pound limbs you buy may not have even been built the same day let alone come off the same form. Different quality control between the major company's yield different quality. Right now I'd say W&W are tops, with Samick coming in a very close second.

Some of the best limbs I've ever had the opportunity to shoot were some old SKY Archery (Earl Hoyt era) maple core & glass Conquest limbs. I personally don't like the feel of foam cores & carbon. And hate the ring from carbon.

While there are some very high quality custom bows being made, we both know that there are many just as I mentioned, made by some guy who decided to get into the business and made a form and started making "custom bows". I've known a few of them myself.

I would agree with your assessment of limbs except that I can't hear any difference between my Samick Masters which are maple cores and carbon face, and my glass limbs. My Winnex limbs with foam cores do have a bit of a different sound.

As far as being perfectly matched, I don't see it as important on a bow where tiller is adjustable as on a fixed takedown.

I do not however blame you for being a bit defensive. You make an excellent bow that would be at the top of my list for a non ILF.

I know some guys building stuff in their "garages" that absolutely blow away mass production..even with quality control.

Then they better slap some ILF fittings on them since they would have the market completely cornered with limbs that blow away the competition.

RH please don't misunderstand my "Now that's funny" as being defensive. Cause I certainly did not mean to come across as defensive. I really thought that was funny!

"As far as being perfectly matched, I don't see it as important on a bow where tiller is adjustable." Funny how most company/sponsored shooters actually request matched limbs...at least they used to back when I was making a run at an Olympic spot.

Bill, that's ok by me. I just wanted you to know that I meant no offence in any way. I really enjoy my ILF bows and I also enjoy bows from very good bowyers. I've always considered you as one of the good guys.

I would think that there is as much difference in ILF limbs as there are in custom bowyer's limbs. Some are top notch and some are not. It pays to know exactly what you are buying. I've had and seen some crap by custom bowyers and I've had some ILF crap.

My Winex and Samick Masters are by far the best limbs I have ever shot by anyone.

I'm glad you like the ILF attachment system... But some of your posts border on hyperbole and the fact is that even the best ILF limbs don't perform any better than the limbs from dozens of custom bowyers...or the latest mass produced Bear for that matter.

Here are the numbers on the BF Extremes, which are top of the line limbs. Good, not great efficiency.

http://www.blackysbowreviews.com/ilf-bows/bf-extreme/bf-extreme.htm

I've never considered Tradteck very good limbs. I don't care how they label them.

You aren't going to get a vast difference in efficiency or speed from any limbs. I doubt there's 10 FPS difference in any of them. What I did say is that ILF's allow you to shoot lighter arrows safely which is not hyperbole. Do you know of any custom bowyers that recommend or warranty 5gpp arrows from their bows? I doubt that you do yet I have shot thousands of arrows slightly heavier than that through my Winex limbs with no ill effects.

Those limbs are Samicks...and the most expensive on the planet.

I knew you'd go 'there' as to the light arrow thing because that what ILF proponents always do as a last result to declare the 'superiority' of those limbs.

Any limb can shoot light arrows. You enjoy the fact that they warrantee them whilst shooting them...but it reality I doubt they hold up any better than any other limb.

Next you'll bring up the foam cores and how they don't vary as much in humidity blah blah blah.

I actually don't care enough about what you shoot to argue about it. I was simply giving my opinion. I don't disrespect yours.

I'm just giving my opinion too...and don't disrespect yours either.

However, I didn't care for your 'tone' concerning custom bows and garages.

Tone is difficult to determine by a quickly written response. The fact is that many bowyers are working off forms that they made in their work shops or garages. Some may be good, some are not.

I would venture a guess that guys making a serious run for the Oympics are not shooting production line limbs. I would even go so far as to venture a guess that one bowyer makes the limbs on a "special" form in his "special" workshop.

Tolerances and good craftsmanship do not care where they are applied. Hoyt, Samick, or someone's garage/shop.

RH,
I like 10gpp for hunting. We have had the discussion before about how my focus is bowhunting and yours is target archery/competitions.

I do not gap shoot, walk the string or anything like that. I am simply an instinctive shooter that focuses on the spot I want the arrow to hit.

But we are off track here, Rick wanted a smooth, easy drawing bow. Widows draw hard, just like Robertson's, Super Kodiaks not so much. The static tip recurves get lighter feeling in the draw due to the mechanical advantage when the tips come over the top. They are also quieter shooting than working tip recurves.

This has been a great thread, learned a bunch.

Since the op is interested in ILF bows I can understand the discussion.

I'm having a harder time understanding the relevance of 6gpp arrows on a bow hunting forum.

(Wild Bill's Peerless should be included in any top shelf recurve discussion. I was fortunate to be able to shoot one that my friend had temporarily.)

I'm having a harder time understanding the relevance of 6gpp arrows on a bow hunting forum.

The OP said he was interested in trying a DAS bow. They use ILF limbs with the old Sky bushing. You can even punch out the ILF fitting and attach a DAS fitting which is what was done on the first DAS bows.

That lead to my suggestion that it might be easier to just get a similar riser that utilizes the ILF fitting so you can use a wider variety of limbs without fooling with changing the bushing.

My suggestion that ILF limbs were superior to home made limbs by Bubba who ordered a Bingam kit offended some folks and the argument started.

The light arrow part was just to make a point that good ILF limbs will take that kind of stress where most custom limbs won't.

You can't prove that, period.

Ok then, custom bows made in garages are superior in every way. That's why they dominate in every shooting sport

R H,

I am not saying that, it is all in who is building them.

I have owned ZERO ILF bows. I appreciate your information on the subject. But the few recurves I have shot and looked over have not really impressed me.

I am a longbow guy as it fits the KISS theory I subscribe to better. When I am 5 miles into the mountains or on a two week Alaska hunt, I want KISS equipment.

I am going to sell a couple of recurves to fund an ILF riser w/ longbow limbs. What brand ILF longbow limbs do you suggest? Samick, Dryad?

64" recurves are my favorite. I've only got three bows a 64" Quinn Stallion @ 48#. A 64" Bigfoot Sasquatch @ 50# and Black Widow PTF-X long as I could get it..62" 49#. All good shooters.

To be honest, I don't know which long bow limbs would be best. Which riser are you looking at?

I was thinking a Trad Tech Titan 17". But have not gotten too far into the research yet. Open to suggestions.

I've shot that riser and like it a lot. What's your draw length and what length bow did you have in mind?

I draw 28.5 to 29" depending on grip and want a 60 or 62" bow. Looks like a 15 or 17" riser will get me there with the long limbs.

Tough part is going to be finding a riser with a grip I like.

The 15" Trad tech Onyx or Recon has a med/low handle style that I prefer.

The 17" Titan would work, but I would have to check and see if the grip is available in low/med. Or I could pull the grip off and reshape it. I have never really liked that style of grip.

Dryad also appeals to me as I could order the riser with a low grip. But then I am going that dang custom route and garage construction.

I wish I could handle a bunch of them side by side.

For limbs I am looking at wood/glass or carbon. I would like to stay away from foam as I have heard of some durability issues with hard use. If I just stuck to archery ranges it would be OK, but who knows where any of my bows may end up.

Most of the TradTech/Samick longbow limbs in both wood and carbon are on backorder.

I could order Dryad right from the source getting the exact weight I want with great customer service from the guys that make the product.

CRS,

You may want to also look at Sky Archery & Morrison Archery offering. Both offer aluminum & wood ILF risers & longbow limbs.

CRS
I like the looks of that Sky TDX 17 riser as well. You will need to check on grip options for both it and the 17" Titan. I'm nearly sure a low grip is offered for the Titan which you may like coming from a traditional longbow.

I would not go shorter than a 17" riser and with a 29" draw not shorter than medium limbs which will give you a 60" bow. I draw 29.5" and prefer a 62" or longer bow though I can shoot even shorter bows fairly well I would only choose one if I was shooting from a blind.

As far as limbs, if I was going recurve, I would get Win & Win Winex. For longbow you will have to research and choose but my choices would be between the Sky, Dryad, and Border limbs.

I always find it funny how scared people are of ILF - all it is - is a universal attachment system that has a little adjustment. It allows for many different limb options on the same riser, that's it. IOW if it were called a Traditional Limb Fitting if it would be more readily accepted.

I really like the TDX 17 that I owned but just could not get it to quiet down - so I sold it off. The grips are interchangeable so you should be able to find something that fits your needs. FWIW I have a Titan Grip that I sanded flat - if you end up with a Titan and want to try it, I'd make you a good deal on it.

I am not scared of it, just realize that adjustment=tinkering. If it is mechanical things can go wrong.

All of that is fine on the archery course, but for my hunting bows. I want to get them set up, dialed in, and practice, practice, practice. Spend the rest of my time scouting/hunting.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I had forgot about SKY and the TDX looks good. I know Morrison is good quality, but do not like the looks of their risers.

Just wish I could handle and shoot a bunch of different risers.

I will go with a 17" riser and long limbs for 62". The majority of my longbows are 60-62".

I will research the other limbs you listed R H.

They really aren't more mechanical than any take down bow. just think of them as take downs but each limb can be tightened to a different degree. It just gives you some small amount of flexibility as to preload and tiller. After that they can be as complicated or simple as you want. You don't have to use sights rests, plungers or stabilizers. The riser is just drilled in case you want to. I have mine set up to shoot off the shelf.

I build up the shelf to a radius with thick two sided 3M tape and add a layer of velcro over it. I use a large flat headed screw covered with velcro into the plunger hole to adjust the level of center shot to fine tune and that's it. The big advantage is that I can fine tune the bow to the arrow instead of swapping heads and cutting arrows in small amounts, or I can do both for the best tuned bows I have ever shot. I have tuned mine so well that when my form is on I can shoot bareshafts 40 yards that group with fletched shafts. I've also punched clean holes through hanging skeet without busting them. The advantage of such a good tune is better penetration. When you have to use huge feathers to get good flight you are loosing penetration.

I am a tuning fanatic for the exact reason you listed. Perfect flight gives maximum penetration.

There are lots of tricks for building up the shelf or building out the side plate.

I like to use wooden or cardboard matchsticks, carved tongue depressors, strip of leather. Minimizes arrow contact. Cover with tape then velcro or thin leather. That way I can also leave a gap for the inside fletch to have more clearance.

CRS, all the reasons you don't like ILF are what makes ILF a great system. Easy to tune, Easy to use, Reliable, no tools required to put together (Not so with a Bob Lee or many other custom take downs) - add in a rest and plunger and tuning that takes a day or two with a conventional bow can be done in minutes.......I have had more issues with stick on Velcro wearing out and poking toothpicks and matchstick behind the strike plates than I have ever had with any elevated rest and plunger combo. Whatever you want to use is fine with me, but you might just want to take a closer look at ILF before totally writing it off. Some of the IBO rules are a joke when it comes to rests and strike plates - putting bolts in with felt on the head is fine, but a plunger is not? Properly tuned and shot there is darn little difference in accuracy between them. Some folks just have a hard time admitting that it's the shooter not the equipment.

BTW, that "Scared of ILF" is a quote from a major custom bow maker explaining to me why they even have another attachment system for their take down bows.

I think CRS is strongly considering ILF. Yes, it's the rules "funny" that dictate how my rest is set up. I prefer an elevated rest and plunger. It makes tuning even simpler and seems more forgiving across a larger parameter to me. Equipment does "not" turn you into a better shooter. It simply makes tuning easier IMHO.

Could not have said it better RH Clark - get the darn thing tuned ASAP and go shoot. Thank goodness we go by NFAA rules around here - not really enough Trad shooters to get too picky about it anyway.

CRS if you like a low grip give a Hoyt Dorado or Buffalo a try. They are not ILF but the Dorado can use ILF limbs if you change out the bushings (easily done). My Dorado has a great grip (Rubber low grip) on it. I attribute that to part of the reason that I have been shooting it so well this year. 5 of my last 6 NFAA 300 rounds have been over 270 with 3) 277 or better. That is about 10 points better than I have ever shot before. I'm shooting a 40# Camo Hoyt Dorado Hunting bow w/ 6 arrow quiver, short stabilizer, T-300 rest and Tradtech Shorty Plunger w/ GT Traditional 15/35 (600's) 30" long w/ 3) 4" Feathers and 125gr points.

CRS, I just read back through some of the posts on this thread and noticed you were looking for a longbow. At on time I owned a Dryad Orion 64" 45# ACS Longbow limbs with bamboo cores - that was one nice rig, one I should not have sold. It was Fast, Smooth and stable with the extra weight of the riser, pretty to boot with Pau Ferro wood. Quiet as a mouse and did I mention fast? Very nice rig and one to take a close look at. Expensive at around $750+ but still less than a Widow. Only problem with the Orion is a limb change will run you about $400.

I'm probably a lot less of a smart ass in person.LOL

I am going to get one, but you guys have to realize that I could care less about rules, competition, or scores.

What about a Hoyt Tiburon?

R H,
Someday I would like to meet you in person, and I am probably a lot more of smart ass in person.

I tend to try and temper myself on forums so as not to hurt anyone's feelers.

I just wanted to thank you guys for having this discussion.

After messing around with my little-guy using a recurve, I think I need one too.

goalie,
You should get one, some of the best times I have had with my sons is in the backyard shooting arrows and time spent out hunting.

Not to mention time spent together building arrows and twisting strings.

You may very well enjoy the Tiburon but It's not really a style I like. The riser is 21" so keep in mind that now long limbs will get you a 66" bow. Personally I prefer 17" risers and long limbs for a max 62" bow for hunting. I love a 68" or 70" recurve for targets but prefer a shorter bow for hunting and with a 29.5" draw, I prefer the feel of medium or long limbs over shorts.

I also don't like the brace part on the back. I just find it distracting. I've shot bows like this and they work well but I possibly just haven't got use to that brace part.

If you like the length of the riser and the grip it will likely be a good bow for you. personally ,I prefer the Trad Tech Titan.

If you like the Tiburon, you might want to take a look at the Gamemaster - it has the old style limb attachment that ILF limbs can be converted to fit. Lots more options for ILF than Formula. But, if your going to spend Tiburon $, get the Sky Wildfire or Crossfire instead. OR the TDX riser and a set of Tradtech limbs makes for a nice rig.

I hate punching out ILF bushings and replacing them with the screw in kind. I just don't like doing that to $400-$600 limbs. I know it works but I'm always thinking the limb may split or flake a splinter around the hole.

I never said 'garage' bows are superior. What I AM saying is that the efficiency of a good ILF limb is no better than a good custom limb...or a Bear or Martin. Blacky's tests prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Btw I'm not 'scared' of ILFs. If you like that sort of bow, that's great. I just don't buy into the hype that they're inherently superior. Thats a crock of feces.

The attachment system is not what makes them better and better is not all about speed. I'm not saying that custom bowyers can't make very good limbs. What I'm saying is that you need to be careful who you are dealing with.

I've known "bowyers" do all kinds of things to get limbs to weight and get them straight that compromises the limb in other ways. How about filing a nock more on one side and then thinning the limb on one side to get it to track straight?

Then there is the question of materials. I like limbs that use no glass at all. Not many custom bowyers offering limbs with no glass, a few have just started. Then we could talk about GPP but you don't want to go there because most custom bowyers want you to shoot at least 9 GPP. I can safely shoot 5 gpp with good ILF limbs.

Now talk about tuning. There is no way I can customize a fixed limb bow the way I want. I have no way to adjust my tiller. I have no way to adjust my preload so that I am getting max performance at my draw. I also have the option of playing around with rests , plungers, sights, stabilizers, and all kinds of things that are shunned by the neo trad groups even though it was not so in times past.

You may like any bow you choose. I'm not knocking you for that. What I'm doing is pointing out why I think ILF is superior to me.

I understand everything you're saying, it's just that it's 99% crap.

I've been around this game a long time.

I don't care how long you have been around. You don't have any right to say that my opinion is 99% crap. Everything I have said about some bowyers compromising is true. I've seen it again and again. I'm not exactly a novice myself.

I'm sure you've done it all and know it all and aren't going to change your opinion so why argue in the first place? There are a lot of folks other than just me enjoying what ILF offers. We are not all full of crap just because we don't agree with you.

I've said it a few times on this thread...that I'm glad you enjoy the platform and how they shoot.

I won't suffer hyperbole lightly however.

What have I said that was hyperbole? I think you would have a lot more fun if you would relax a little bit. All this talk about what you won't suffer. Who made you the spokesperson for the entire archery community? Like something or don't like it, who says it makes you suffer that someone else thinks something else is superior?

Have you ever even shot any modern ILF bows? I shoot everything from non backed Osage self bows to modern ILF Italian barebow risers with high teck glassless limbs. I enjoy them all for different reasons. I've shot and owned most of the big name bows out there. I happen to like the ILF platform and metal risers because they offer me what the others do not. Just because I like one platform more than another and feel it is superior doesn't make my opinion crap.

I've shot tourneys right alongside self bow guys and never looked down on them because of their equipment choices. In fact most of the time when I've had any problem it was from someone who felt I wasn't trad enough. And then only because they were poor archers who felt my equipment gave me too much of an advantage over them. A couple years ago I put that notion to rest when I won a 1500 entry event with a selfbow and wood arrows.

Point is you don't have to suffer anything. I don't care what you shoot. If you shoot poorly and want help I will be glad to try and help. I won't tell you it's because of your equipment. Just enjoy what you are doing and let others do the same.

Typically a good archer with proper form is a good archer with proper form no matter the bow in hand.

And a good bowyer is a good bowyer, no matter the equipment they are building.

I agree with that but will add that new and different materials and equipment may give both, options they didn't previously have. Better is defined in different ways by different people. What is better to one person is a non issue with someone else.I have never seen options however as a bad thing.

Well after just talking down a Tiburon - um, I just bought one! HaHa - a fella made me too good of a deal to pass up so I'll soon have one in hand and will give it a through test drive. It's a 40# 62"AMO rig - I'll give a report when I get some arrows through it

centershot
I'll be looking forward to the report. Is the Tiburin ILF? Does Hoyt still say some of their ILF risers are not compatible with all ILF limbs and recommend only their limbs?

Nope it's not ILF, it has the Formula limb system like the Buffalo. It looks like a short (21") Formula Ion-X riser w/ short limbs for a 62" hunting style bow. It's a 40#'er so should adjust from 37# or so to a bit over 40#. Should shoot pretty quick with the long riser and short limbs - about right to my way of thinking. Of course I thought that about the Buffalo I had also and it has a new home...time will tell.

It's a new bow. Just enjoy it until the next one, if you are an addict like me. I'm going to drop poundage. I've been shooting 48 lbs on targets and 55 lbs hunting. I didn't shoot for over a year because of a shoulder injury and I can really feel the weight now. I can only get a couple dozen good shots before the weight starts causing me to get sloppy. I'm just not as strong as I was before the shoulder injury. I think I'll get stronger but I'm going with lighter limbs for a while.

I hear you, lighter is a lot easier on the shoulders. I like bows around 40#, quick enough to be fun and light enough to shoot lots of arrows without tiring. With modern carbon arrows I can shoot around 170-180 fps pretty easy - plenty for what I like to do.

I agree. The thing that limits my speed the most is that the local 3D's require 125 grn or greater points.

I bought one couple weeks ago. Sounds like a .22. To good of deal to pass mine in exactly what yours is. It will make a good fishing tool

The trad police can come up with some ridiculous rules....

That is the first report of a loud Tiburon that I have heard of. I have heard just the opposite - most guys are saying how it is one of the quietest bows they have ever shot. Have you bumped the brace height up around 8 - 8 1/2"? Make sure all the hardware is tight? Shooting a properly spined arrow? Almost sounds like the arrow whacking the riser.

I wish that was the case. This one is not off the press its a older one. accurate fairly smooth but noisy. Like I said it will be a great bow fishing rig.

Tiburon is a new bow for 2014, do you have a Gamemaster?

It looks like a gamemaster riser. With limbs that say tiburon. I'll look and post a picture this evening. That could be a problem

Hoyt made a Tiburon back about 2005-2006, but different critter than the 2014 Tiburon.

Rick, FWIW, the guy that runs trad gang use to sell a wool product that you wrap the string with where it comes in contact with the limbs. I bought a pair 8 or 9 years ago and they are still going strong and they work remarkably well, though I guess you could use any wool thread.

I shoot an old original Silvertip, and I've had friends stand 10 yards in front of me with their eyes closed. they say you can't hear the shot at all.