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Posted By: 1fstdsl My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
I was able to get a hold of some RL17 and did some testing with my 7mm Saum and .300 Saum New Years day, I must say I am very pleased.

The loads I like for the 7mm are:

140 TTSX
60gr RL17
Fed 215
Avg Velocity = 3325 fps

160 Partition
56.5gr RL17
Fed 215
Avg Velocity = 3075 fps

.300 Saum

168 TTSX
64gr RL17
Fed 215
Avg Velocity = 3245 fps

180 Partition
62gr RL17
Avg Velocity = 3150 fps

Both rifles were 24" barrels and accuracy was under 1/2 inch @ 100yds for all loads.

I was most pleased with the 168 TTSX load. I was able to gain 245 fps over my previous load of 62 gr of IMR4350. I was only able to get 3000 fps with that load before seeing pressure signs.

Also, I never saw any pressure signs with any of the RL17 loads. So I maybe able to squeeze a little more out of it, but I think I am near max though. I did several loads in 1 gr increments and I never flattened a primer or had a stiff bolt. Very impressive.
Posted By: High_Brass Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
Thanks for the detailed report. Very interesting.
Posted By: JPro Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
Dude, those numbers are smoking!

RL15 would let me get to 2970 or so with 168TSX's before pressure. (24" M700)
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
Where did you get load data?

I just looked on the alliant website and they have nothing.
and, does it work with the 300 Win Mag, as well?
Posted By: mathman Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
Those 7mm velocities look like 7mm Wby. territory.
data is here:

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/reloder17data.doc
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
I have not used it with my 300 WM yet, perhaps this weekend.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
Originally Posted by JPro
Dude, those numbers are smoking!

RL15 would let me get to 2970 or so with 168TSX's before pressure. (24" M700)


Give RL17 a try, you will not be dissappointed.
Originally Posted by 1fstdsl
I have not used it with my 300 WM yet, perhaps this weekend.


Please do one with the 168 TSX. I'd really like to see how that pans out.
Posted By: kraky111 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
AWESOME!!!! I use quickload alot and usually I can't quite get the velocity that it shows...close but usually I come up shy. Anyhow just for fun I asked quickload what the fastest "known powder" is for the 300 saum and a 165 class bullet at 65,000psi. It said that with a 24" barrel the fastest powder would not excede 3154 fps. SO....IT APPEARS THAT the hype is for real with re17. Sounds like the '06 is about to move up to win mag performance and possible the 300 win mag may move towards the wby.
Combine this with the newer better lighter bullets like the tsx and the e-tip and we will get a whole new generation of performance out of these mid class cartridges. Kind of a fun way to start the new year!!
I'll be looking to find some now after reading all this. I wonder how it would do in a 308.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
My top speeds with the .300 saum were:

168 TTSX
65gr RL17
Fed 215
Velocity = 3302 fps

180 Partition
63gr RL17
Fed 215
Velocity = 3193 fps

These were both just a single round with no signs of pressure.

Posted By: DakotaDeer Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
Sure would be nice if we had actual pressure measurements to compare it against known loads.

I hope the hype is real, but am skeptical.
Posted By: kraky111 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/02/09
3245 is about all I can run my 300 wby ul at with a 180 grainer. A partition or accubond will lose about 40% of it's wt soon after impact. A tsx most likely about 10%.
So, here you have a saum that runs 3245 with a retained wt of 150 grains and a wby with a wt of 108 grains at the same speed.
I realize it's not apples to apples exactly but I think I can say without blinking that the saum can now possible excede the performance that made the wby famous 20 years ago before all the new bullets. Pretty cool. Now lets see a powder that will do the same for my 30-378....I'd kind of like to run 150's at about 3900 fps instead of that pokey old 3700!!
Posted By: Ackleyfan Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I'm betting on higher pressures!
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
This must be wonder powder........................

Or astonomical pressure. I'll take number 2.
Posted By: 405wcf Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Huh?
I'm just a slow country boy so I need you fellers to spell this out for me.

The data in the attached Word document and at the Alliant website appears to me to be in line with max velocities available with other powders.

Two that I noticed were for the 270WSM and 30-06. The 130 and 150gr WSM velocities are in line with what one would expect from Magpro or RL22. The 180gr 30-06 is right where RL22 runs.

I notice in the RL17 info page they claim the powder performs well in extreme weather. Something they don't claim for the other Alliant slow burners.

In reloading, like economics, the first rule is TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch).

So if I'm missin something, please set me straight.

405wcf
Posted By: Ackleyfan Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I have no doubt that this new powder will offer more velocity but some of these numbers seem way high!
Posted By: Azshooter Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I created a thread on this powder a few weeks back.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...lat/Number/2649741/page/1/gonew/1#UNREAD

I think the doubters should read the details found in this above thread, which contains several links. This powder is made differently and has unique performance.

1fstdcs I am envious of you having some RL-17 in your hands!
I see you are in Az where did you find some?
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Originally Posted by Azshooter
I created a thread on this powder a few weeks back.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...lat/Number/2649741/page/1/gonew/1#UNREAD

I think the doubters should read the details found in this above thread, which contains several links. This powder is made differently and has unique performance.

1fstdcs I am envious of you having some RL-17 in your hands!
I see you are in Az where did you find some?


I could not find it locally. I had to order it from here:

http://www.cpostores.com/thirdgenerationshootingsupply/browse.cfm/2,4537.html
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Originally Posted by Ackleyfan
I have no doubt that this new powder will offer more velocity but some of these numbers seem way high!


I will be going out again tomorrow to see if I can back up the results.

What has been your experience with RL-17?
Posted By: 260madman Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I call shenanigans. 200fps over factory specs?

I hope you can back it up.
Check your chrony with a known load first. Never know about electronics.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Originally Posted by 260madman
I call shenanigans. 200fps over factory specs?

I hope you can back it up.
Check your chrony with a known load first. Never know about electronics.


I did bring know loads and they were what I expected, so I feel the chrony was fairly accurate.
Posted By: Ackleyfan Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
No experience!
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I am not the first to get these kind of results.

A quote from 6mmBR.com:

"Before, with my 6XC, the best I could do with H4831sc and 115 Bergers was 2950 fps.
With Reloder 17, I can run the 115s over 3200 fps. That's a HUGE gain."

Article:

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html
Posted By: Partagas Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I kind of agree about no such thing as a free lunch and a high pressure but what about hornady's light magnum loads or IIRC federal has a similar offering called something like high energy.
Posted By: Azshooter Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Here is another link, a release from Alliant:

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/alliant-releases-new-reloder-17-powder/

-------------------------

My 284 and the 168 Berger VLD as well as the 162 A-max are awaiting this powder. A friend says his shipment will arrive soon, he is going to share.

----------------------------

Imagine getting 3000 fps with a 180 from the puny 284:

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

Taken from above link:

"Big Speed Gain with Reloder 17 in .284 Win
RL 17 clearly enables me to run the Berger 180s easily 125-150 fps faster that I normally was able to shoot them with H4350 and H4831SC in this rifle. My previous load ran around 2825 - 2850 fps with the Berger 180s and that was about all I could get out of it."
Posted By: 338Federal Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I gotta believe there is something good coming from the new powders. Hate to think that companies spend all that time and money just so they can claim their new propellant equals six other numbers that are already out there. There'll be plenty of naysayers, (been one myself at times) but I'm just eager to hear more good reports. This kind of info steps on lots of toes and hurts alot of feelings, but that's progress.
More powder to ya!
Posted By: Ackleyfan Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Don't get me wrong, this powder does peak my interest I'm just a little skeptical when it turns a 300 wsm into a 300 weatherby!
Posted By: logger Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
The October 2008 Handloader has an article on RE 17 on page 26. The author tried it in several calibers and was disappointed with it in 30-06 (2808 fps for 165 gr. bullet), but really liked it for the 300 WSM (3244 fps for 165 gr and 3107 for 180 gr bullet). I have some ordered and want to try it in a 7-08 that is set up to test pressures.
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
405 - its fairly simple - look at the word document attached; note the data for the 7mm WSM. My 7mm WSM shells hold 82 grains of powder, my 7mm SAUM hold 74. The WSM holds 8 grains more powder. Please explain to me in some type of non mystical terms how a cartidge with 11% less capacity can shoot the same bullets 159 feet/sec faster - using the exact same powder, very similar bullets and with pressure tested equipment.

I'm willing to be corrected but I've been doing this for a long time. There ain't no magic powder, barrel, rifle, universe where things like this happen without really high pressures................
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I have that article and will add that to my statement above.

One other thing - on the 6mm BR website, did you catch the fact that they were using 30" barrels on the 7mm SAUM with some load data? A 30" barrel will get you the extra 150 ft/sec discrepency.
Posted By: prm Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Yes, they are using 30" barrels, but they were comparing to other powders tested in the same rifle. The way you could get more velocity is to hold the peak pressure for longer. So, rather than a spike in pressure, it spreads it out a bit to have more time at peak pressure, thus more force expended on the bullet, without going to a higher peak pressure. It would be interesting to see some pressure data to see if that is true though.

Edit: I just read the article on 6mmbr and they gained velocity because the cartridges they were using were space limited. With compressed loads they were still no where near max pressure. The RL17 provides more energy for a given volume so it is able to achieve higher pressure for that same volume. Not sure there will be much gain for cartridges that are not space limited.
Posted By: Freddy Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
What brand chronograph are you using? I sure would like one if it will let me turn my 300 wsm into a weatherby 300.
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Originally Posted by prm
Yes, they are using 30" barrels, but they were comparing to other powders tested in the same rifle. The way you could get more velocity is to hold the peak pressure for longer. So, rather than a spike in pressure, it spreads it out a bit to have more time at peak pressure, thus more force expended on the bullet, without going to a higher peak pressure. It would be interesting to see some pressure data to see if that is true though.

Edit: I just read the article on 6mmbr and they gained velocity because the cartridges they were using were space limited. With compressed loads they were still no where near max pressure. The RL17 provides more energy for a given volume so it is able to achieve higher pressure for that same volume. Not sure there will be much gain for cartridges that are not space limited.


+1 I agree. I think the Handloader article indicates the same. RE 17 may expand the area under the curve at peak pressure but it ain't going to get crazy. I would be real surprised if it gave much more than 50 ft/sec. I can't see 100 ft/sec but hope I'm wrong.
Posted By: 260madman Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I also hope I am wrong. But Hornadys HM 7mm loads in my 7mag weren't near the claimed velocity. I am still skeptical.

Keep us posted please.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I will be heading out again in a couple hours for more testing, I will post results. Looks like I better take pictures as well.
Posted By: 405wcf Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I missed the 30" tube note!

As Partagas points out, the powders in Hornady's Light Magnum loads and RCM cartriges produce higher velocities than those currently available to handloaders. At some point in time they may become available to us.

However, the currently published RL17 data is nothing to get excited about. The results some shooters are getting with RL17 exceed the velocities produced by the labs. Why? I do not have the answer.

Perhaps as more shooters work with the powder and a greater body of data is produced we will find that the currently published lab results were an anomaly on the slow side.
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I'm not sure what you're going to take pictures of. I don't doubt you're getting what you claim but do you know at what pressures?

For example, In my 22" Ruger 280 Rem, I have a load that shoots 150 Sierra BT's with H4831 at 2975 ft/sec into little bitty groups with no pressure signs. Do I conclude that I have a "fast barrel", magic load, or just plain excess pressure?

I'm a bit skeptical that anyone can get 150 ft/sec over the WSM at similar pressure. I'm willing to be wrong but I've never seen it despite claims of anomalous velocity from many folks.

As an aside, the 7mm WSM holds 2 grains less powder than a 7 mag. In essence, your data suggests a 7 SAUM (or 280 AI) throws bullets at velocities faster than the 7 mag. As another aside, the 7mm Wea holds 1 grain less powder than a 7mm RM - almost identical to the 7mm WSM. It attains it's mojo from weatherby freebore and pressures pushing 70K psi. I don't have my Barnes book handy but you're getting more velocity with a 140 TTSX from a 7mm SAUM than Barnes did with the 7mm Weatherby. Nosler's 140 data for the 7mm Wea peaks out at 3361. Your 160 Partition data is at the max velocity I've seen with the 7 mag using out of the book charges.

Maybe RE 17 is something new - I'll remain skeptical until I see pressure tested data.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
I do not know the pressures, but I can say I feel very comfortable shooting at the current levels. The accuracy is excellent, the primers look great and the bolt has no stiffness to it.

In my 300 Saum with a 168 TTSX and 63 gr IMR4350 I was seeing a velocity of 3050 fps with a stiff bolt & flat primers. I did not feel comfortable with that load. In the same gun, same day with 64gr RL17 there were no sign of pressure with a velocity of 3245 fps, I was amazed.

I heading out right now to retest, give me a few hours to post results. With any luck I will be able to back up results.
Posted By: Partagas Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Back to the hornady light mag the stuff I tried in my 7-08 was running at advertised velocities. It was 140 grain hornady at over 3000 fps. 22" barrel

I'm not sold on R17 or other powders being magic but I can still believe in improvements. 4350 was about the slowest powder available a long time ago and the weatherby cartridges and other similar ratio cartridges like the 25-06 came into their own when 4831 and the other slow powders came into being.
Posted By: duckster Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Is RL-17 a temperature insensitive powder?
Posted By: pick Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Originally Posted by duckster
Is RL-17 a temperature insensitive powder?


They claim it is, but I have not been able to find any reports of independent testing and verification of it yet.

If it truly has a different pressure curve and give the increased velocity without undue pressure, plus being temperature insensitive they will have a real winner on their hands.

The fact a Swiss outfit makes it give me hope that the QC and consistency will be good.

I am waiting to hear first hand reports back on this powder.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Update:

I went out again today and was getting similar results...then I went to double check everything and my chrony was NOT completely flat. It was off about a 1/16 of inch, this little change dropped velocities about 100 fps.

So here are the numbers I shot today and I feel they are fairly accurate.

.300 Saum

168 TTSX
Fed 215
62 gr RL17 = 3045 fps
63 gr RL17 = 3110 fps
64 gr RL17 = 3160 fps

62 gr IMR4350 = 2900 fps (max load in my rifle)

180 Partition
Fed 215
62 gr RL17 = 3040 fps
63 gr RL17 = 3100 fps

7mm Saum

160 Partition
Fed 215
56.5 gr RL17 = 2980 fps

These were the only loads I had left after I discovered the error. I do not feel any of these loads were at max. I feel very confident that I can get even more velocity out of the RL17.

I also did some milk jug tests with the TTSX, Partition, Accubond and Balistic Tip. I will post that later.

And yes RL17 is supposed in me temp insensitive.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
168 TTSX 3 shot groups @ 100yds
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Posted By: Thegman Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
Originally Posted by 405wcf

As Partagas points out, the powders in Hornady's Light Magnum loads and RCM cartriges produce higher velocities than those currently available to handloaders. At some point in time they may become available to us.


Available or not, you're not going to be stuff enough into the case to replicate the load.

For example, last time I checked, a 180 30-06 Federal Fusion load uses 56 grains of a ball powder for ~2740. A 180 308 Win Federal HE uses 56 grains of a ball powder for ~2740. Essentially, Federal is stuffing a 30-06 size load in a 308 case. I doubt the powder is terribly special (there is certainly nothing magical about the energy density), but the loading technique is pretty damn tough to duplicate.

Edited to add: At least for the 308 Win, there are commonly available powders that will more or less duplicate the velocity of the HE loads with pressures around 60K (the HE loads are about 54K).
Posted By: RNF Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/03/09
1fstdsl

Thanks for posting the information. I have been working with my Ruger 300 Saum trying to improve on the velocity with 180 grain bullets. Here is my previous data and what I got with reloader 17 today. Ruger 300 Saum 22 inch barrel
Powder Weight Bullet& Wt Primer Vel FPS Temp F
VV N560 65 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2734 29 - 46
VV N560 65 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2728 29 - 46
VV N560 66 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2781 29 - 46
VV N560 66 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2791 29 - 46
VV N560 67 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2841 29 - 46
VV N560 67 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2836 29 - 46

IMR 7828 64 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2719 29 - 46
IMR 7828 64 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2708 29 - 46
IMR 7828 65 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2756 29 - 46
IMR 7828 65 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2762 29 - 46
IMR 7828 66 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2824 29 - 46
IMR 7828 66 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2803 29 - 46
IMR 7828 67 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2829 29 - 46
IMR 7828 67 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2845 29 - 46
IMR 7828 68 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2889 29 - 46
IMR 7828 68 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2901 29 - 46 Hunter 59 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2597 29 - 46
Hunter 59 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2583 29 - 46
Hunter 60 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2605 29 - 46
Hunter 60 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2619 29 - 46
Hunter 61 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2695 29 - 46
Hunter 61 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2714 29 - 46
Hunter 62 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2788 29 - 46
Hunter 62 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2764 29 - 46
Hunter 63 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2816 29 - 46
Hunter 63 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2821 29 - 46

H414 57.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2592 29 - 46
H414 57.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2581 29 - 46
H414 58.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2600 29 - 46
H414 58.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2606 29 - 46
H414 59.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2713 29 - 46
H414 59.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2721 29 - 46
H414 60.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2757 29 - 46
H414 60,5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2773 29 - 46
H414 61,5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2798 29 - 46
H414 61.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2809 29 - 46

RL 17 58 FED 215 2788 68
RL 17 58 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2775 68
RL 17 59 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2834 68
RL 17 59 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2817 68
RL 17 60 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2884 68
RL 17 60 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2887 68
RL 17 61 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2935 68
RL 17 61 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2954 68
RL 17 62 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2988 68
RL 17 62 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2979 68

With Reloader 17 I gained 100 FPS from closest load with no pressure signs. Now just need to play with seatig depth for best accuracy.

Ronald
Posted By: prm Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
Good inputs folks. Interesting stuff. Looking forward to stretching my loads in the 338-06 with RL-17 to see what it will do.
Posted By: Ackleyfan Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
Nice pics! your new results seem more in line with what I have read about the new powder,another + is your getting good accuracy with the added velocity,thanks for taking the time to show us your results,looks like Alliant may have another great option,I will have to try some soon!
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
I can buy those numbers - which are still pretty dang impressive for a 7mm/300 shortie. Plus good shooting!

Thanks for taking the time to post. I also have to give you big kudos for telling it straight with the chrono issues.

Thanks for the results and please keep us informed of further load development.
Posted By: kraky111 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
That new data also matches my earlier post re quickload. Remember that when I asked it what the fastest possible speed might be it said 3154. So I guess that would make re 17 one of the best "fast" powders for the cartridge.
It doesn't make it a miracle powder but it does confirm it's one of the best out there for performance.
Posted By: 338Federal Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
1fstdsl, When you say the Chrony was not "flat" did you mean that it wasn't level or that it wasn't open all the way? Not being fully opened would shorten the sensor spacings and I know that will skew the numbers.
I've never given much thought about a chronograph being perfectly level, however. I just always line it up so that I,m shooting targets from the bench and speed testing at the same time. Our range seems like level ground but could be part of a degree out of level. Does perfect level make a difference?
Posted By: Freddy Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
Those numbers still look a bit high, however I am curious enough that I am going to go take a drive to Cabellas in Reno and pick up a pound and see what my 300 wsm can do. I have about a half a box of 165 gr nosler ballistic tips on hand, also have three boxes of Barnes 168 gr xlc's. With 70 gr of IMR 4831 I am getting 3115 fps with the xlc bullets, only issue that I have is that I may have to wait for it to warm up, almost all of my load testing is done with a temperature of at least 60 degrees, have not seen that since early November.
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
1f - looking back over your post, you mentioned milk jug tests - what did you find? I'm curious how the Partition faired. I shoot 63 gr AA 4350 under a 180 Partition for 2925 in my 24" SAUM. It is my elk load.

Another question - does either of your two SAUM's leave ejector marks in any of your cases? My 7 does at the mildest loads possible but nice rounded primers, and next to no case head expansion. In fact, its hard to measure any case head expansion.

Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
Originally Posted by bwinters
1f - looking back over your post, you mentioned milk jug tests - what did you find? I'm curious how the Partition faired. I shoot 63 gr AA 4350 under a 180 Partition for 2925 in my 24" SAUM. It is my elk load.

Another question - does either of your two SAUM's leave ejector marks in any of your cases? My 7 does at the mildest loads possible but nice rounded primers, and next to no case head expansion. In fact, its hard to measure any case head expansion.



Milk jug test:

7mm 140 gr BT
Velocity = 3200 fps
86.5 gr, .50 dia, 62% retention

7mm 160 Partition
Velocity = 2950 fps
106.3 gr, .53 dia, 66% retention

.30 cal 180 Partition
Velocity = 3000 fps
122.3 gr, .56 dia, 68% retention

.30 cal 180 Accubond
Velocity = 3000 fps
115.5 gr, .59 dia, 64% retention

.30 cal 168 TTSX
Velocity = 3150 fps
118.6 gr, .40 dia, 71% retention (lost all 4 petals)

I was getting injectors marks with IMR4350, but I had those loads were max in my rifle. I am not getting injector marks with RL17 yet and the velocities are greater than the IMR4350.

Like I said previously, I know I can get even more velocity out of the RL17. I think 3200+ fps is going to be no problem with the 168 TTSX with the .300 SAUM.
Posted By: Savage_99 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
Originally Posted by bwinters
..........Another question - does either of your two SAUM's leave ejector marks in any of your cases? My 7 does at the mildest loads possible but nice rounded primers, and next to no case head expansion. In fact, its hard to measure any case head expansion.


What do you mean by "ejector marks"?

According to some pressure or maximum loads cannot be measured by case head expansion!

They argue that the chronograph measures pressure.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
Originally Posted by 338Federal
1fstdsl, When you say the Chrony was not "flat" did you mean that it wasn't level or that it wasn't open all the way? Not being fully opened would shorten the sensor spacings and I know that will skew the numbers.
I've never given much thought about a chronograph being perfectly level, however. I just always line it up so that I,m shooting targets from the bench and speed testing at the same time. Our range seems like level ground but could be part of a degree out of level. Does perfect level make a difference?


I did not have the chrony fully opened. Which would probably explain why I would get frustrated sometimes when my velocities would flucuate by 100 fps.
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
Sav - Ejector marks are marks left on the case head from the ejector plunger. Marks are also left by the bolt face due to sticky extraction. Both classic signs of high pressure - or something else in my case. I don't believe I'm not anywhere near max charge as velocities are 200 ft/sec less velocity acheivable at max pressure. For example, I'm at 2750 with 154 Hornady using 54-55 gr of H4350. Max load is handy to 57 grains and 2900 ft/sec with a 22" barrel. I'm running a 24" barrel.
Posted By: bigsqueeze Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/04/09
Originally Posted by 1fstdsl
I was able to get a hold of some RL17 and did some testing with my 7mm Saum and .300 Saum New Years day, I must say I am very pleased.

The loads I like for the 7mm are:

140 TTSX
60gr RL17
Fed 215
Avg Velocity = 3325 fps

160 Partition
56.5gr RL17
Fed 215
Avg Velocity = 3075 fps

.300 Saum

168 TTSX
64gr RL17
Fed 215
Avg Velocity = 3245 fps

180 Partition
62gr RL17
Avg Velocity = 3150 fps

Both rifles were 24" barrels and accuracy was under 1/2 inch @ 100yds for all loads.

I was most pleased with the 168 TTSX load. I was able to gain 245 fps over my previous load of 62 gr of IMR4350. I was only able to get 3000 fps with that load before seeing pressure signs.

Also, I never saw any pressure signs with any of the RL17 loads. So I maybe able to squeeze a little more out of it, but I think I am near max though. I did several loads in 1 gr increments and I never flattened a primer or had a stiff bolt. Very impressive.
...............Very intersting #`s there!...I also plan on using some new Rel 17 in my shorty 16.5" tubed 300 WSM compact Frontier and for my 375 Ruger Alaskan.

Without Rel 17, I have received some very good #`s from the Frontier and happy with them. Over 2900 w/ a 180 grainer, a little over 3100 from a 150 and 2800 from a 200 grainer.

I wonder what the Rel 17 will do!
Posted By: Grand Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/05/09
Tag. Good info here.
Posted By: Azshooter Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/06/09
This thread is killing me. I gave up waiting for the stuff to show and ordered three pounds yesterday. It should arrive late this week. Ordered it here:

http://www.cpostores.com/thirdgenerationshootingsupply/browse.cfm/2,4537.html

I had to pay a hazmat fee but it is worth it to have some show later this week. First will be the 284 with 162 A-max and 168 Berger VLDs. I have a ton of past loading data from the 284 to compare. Will share when I have new data.

Posted By: SamOlson Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/06/09
Originally Posted by Ackleyfan
Don't get me wrong, this powder does peak my interest I'm just a little skeptical when it turns a 300 wsm into a 300 weatherby!




It's freakin' me out man...grin


Very interesting thread.

Curious to hear your take Azshooter.

Not to hijack but is R17 similiar to Hodgdon's new V powder?

Posted By: DMB Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/06/09
I just found a supply of RL-17 locally, so I bought 3 pounds to give it a try.
Will try it in a 25-06 and a 7x57 initially.
This is a great thread.
Thanks for the data guys!!!

Don
Posted By: Partagas Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/06/09
+1 Sam, I wondered the same thing about the Hodgon new V powder as well.
Posted By: Ruger280 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/08/09
Yep, ordered a couple pounds for my 7x57. Seems like it should be a match made in heaven.
Posted By: .280Rem Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/08/09
Just doing a little speculating here...

Buddy of mine runs a 7mmSaum with 160s...a 22" Model 7. Gets 3000+ but with R-22. I've run a 24" 300Winnie with 180s at 3150 with R-19 and R-22. When loaded with H4350 the top end for 180s dropped a bit to @3050 before pressure showed.

The velocities for each of the 2 guns in this thread are showing velocities that are at the top end of the 7mmRM and 300Winnie range (the Shamu's larger capacity cousins) for the same wt bullets. And being gotten with a powder in the burn rate range of the 4350s. JMO, YMMV, but I'd speculate the loads are a tad on the warm side, but not nuclear hot. Maybe factor in the "new technology advertised and they're not hot at all. However, a hot day could make them that way, temp insensitivity be damned! And they're about 75fps faster than what that published data in the link post above showed.
Posted By: Reloader7RM Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/08/09
Better watch out with the Chrony brand chrono. I had one several years ago that made my std carts look like magnums after about a year of use. I thought something was fishy so I tried a Prochrono and was brought back into the real world.

I'm not saying your chrono is bad, but you may want to check the loads over a friends just to be sure.

If these are indeed producing these speeds, I need to break out my Sendero 300SAUM and blow the dust off of it smile It's a great shooter, but nothing more than a glorified 30-06, so it's just gaurded the safe. This new powder may bring that little jewel to life....

Have a Good One and congrats on the new found loads.

loder
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/08/09
How accurate my chrony is, I don't know. But what I do know is that with the same rifle, same chrony, same bullet on the same day the results were RL-17 200 fps faster than IMR4350.

62gr IMR4350 = 2900 fps (excellent accuracy, 63 gr shows pressure, perhaps slow lot)

63gr RL-17 = 3100 fps (same accuracy, more speed, no signs of pressure)
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/08/09
62 grains of IMR 4350 should get you somewhere in the 2900 ball park but not more. 2900 with a 180 is very doable in the SAUM. I've seen several loads pushing 3000 real hard and a few that top 3000. I'll be happy with 2950.
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/10/09
Ok, Here are "My Reloader 17 Results"

I finally got out today to shoot a new build.

FN SPR action in 300 WSM
Rock 26" SS 5R barrel m40 contour .338 neck
Macmillan A3 stock

168 Berger VLD

66 grains 2,970 mv
67 grains 3,040 mv
68 grains 3,148 mv

No signs of pressure

185 Berger VLD

64.5 grains 2,998 mv
65.5 grains 3,015 mv
66.0 grains 3,044 mv

No signs of pressure

NOTE: This was a virgin barrel, I put 4 shots down the tube to get it on paper and then 3 more. I soaked a patch of Montana Extreme Copper Killer down the bore and let it sit.
Results, No blue patch whatsoever! Yeah me!
The Rock tube holds up it's reputation.

Accuracy ran in the 8's and 9's using Win brass and CCI Large Rifle Magnum primer.

I need to play with it some more, of course.

I would rate the experience today as "promising".

Plenty of room in the WSM case to add more powder, maybe 3 or 4 more grains.

Good thread hope it keeps going with others experience using this powder.



Posted By: 260madman Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/10/09
I just went to alliants site and man do the 243 and 25 wizzums haul azz with RL17!

I need to pick up some to try in my shamu. I'm still skeptical but worth a try.
Posted By: Ol` Joe Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/10/09
Has anyone tried it in the 6.5 Swede, 06 or 6.5x284 or is it a good choice only in cartridges where powder space is at a premium with powders in this burn range?
This might not be as interesting as the big guns but I shot a little RL 17 yesterday in my 243 with 100 grain interlocks.

I had previously worked up to 40.0 grains about a week ago, I believe the alliant data gives a 40.8 max. Accuracy was really good at 39.5 so I loaded up some more at that weight.

I also took along some factory bullets as well, rem corelocts, Federal fusions, and 2 factory hornady sst that I had left.

Also the load that I used this deer season of 42.5 grains of RL 19 and 95 grain sst,s

I have one of the inexpensive F-1 Chronys and I have now idea if it is as accurate as others or not but this is the results of 3 shots of each one of the loads except the hornady factory sst,s and it will be 2 shots. Chrony was about 12 feet from muzzle.

RL 17 39.5
2771
2764
2745

RL 19 42.5 & 95 gr. sst
2618
2656
2671

Remington coreloct 100 gr.
2757
2785
2764

Hornady 95 gr factory sst
2700
2709

Fed fusion 95 gr I think is what they are.
2705
2704
2748

FWIW
Posted By: Azshooter Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
Finally got the RL-17. Rifle: sporter 284 win with a 23" barrel. Seated the moly coated Hornady 162 A-max into rifling for first test.

Old top load was 54 grs of H4350 for a velocity of 2900 fps.

Temperature today was 60 degrees. Worked up from 53 grs in one gr increments to 58 with no pressure. The powder was heavily compressed with 58 grs. Velocity was 3110 showing on my CED Millenium chronograph. That is a whomping 210 fps difference! Went up to 59 grs and one case of four showed a slight extractor mark but no extraction issue. I backed down to 58 for now, would undoubtedly lower it for warmer weather. Next will be trying to refine the load with seating depth changes.


In the article I linked earlier, it was stated that RL-17 is somewhere between 4350 and 4831. Based on my extensive loading of the 284, for over 25 yrs, this powder "acts" slower than 4350 that much is certain. I would love to see the actual pressure curve. The comment on that article says: Reloader 17's unique penetrating burn-rate regulator smooths out the pressure curve, allowing RL17 to maintain high energy for a longer period of time." I am now a believer.

I intend to try a few hunting bullets next. Using moly may cause a bullet lighter than 150 gr to run a bit slower as the case would run out of powder space before it maxed out. It might be just the powder to run bullets as light as 140 grs without moly.

Next will be trying the 140 TSX and the 150 Nosler BT. Will report back when I get around to more testing.




Posted By: 338Federal Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
That's it! I'm getting some.
Posted By: kyreloader Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
Mine came in yesterday, going to try in 6.5x284 and maybe my .25-06 (but throat/barrel pretty much shot out on that one).
Posted By: prm Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
I would really like to hear how it does in the 338 Fed. Being space limited it would seem to be a great match. Not sure if the burn rate is ideal, but only one way to find out...

I just loaded some RL-17 for my 338-06 with 210 Scirocco IIs. Looking forward to the next range day.
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
284 Win

Quote
Hornady 162 A-max


Quote
Velocity was 3110


Jeez! might as well be shooting a 7mag, at 10 grains less for less recoil.

Thanks for the report as I have a 284 win on my next build list.

What was your COL?



Posted By: Freddy Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
Wow, 3110 fps from a 284 using a 162 gr bullet. I have a 284, it's a Savage Model model 11f, it was a 7mm-08, I had it rechambered to 284. The only issue I have is that it has a long throat, probably caused by the reamer when it was rechambered, I can only go to 3.005 oal due to magazine restrictions, with that oal I am still .125 off the lands. I have three boxes of barnes 140 gr xlc bullets on hand, my top speed with those bullets is 2900 fps with 56 gr of IMR 4831, I should top 3200 with RL 17, now I just have to find some , not one sporting goods store in the Reno area has any in stock.
Posted By: kraky111 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
FYI--Stunning performance to the point of being.....well....almost too good to be true. Quickload doesnt' think it possible to get past 2960 at 63k pressure with any of today's known powders. Remember the original poster had fantastic velocity but after a proper correction matched QC's best velocity? Can we be sure of this fantastic event??
Posted By: bwinters Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
+1

I'll wait for pressure tested data. If you look at the WORD doc posted earlier in this thread, Alliant isn't claiming an extra 200 ft/sec over anything with similar size bullets - and the load they picked to compare. Some of the loads they picked to make a comparison seem, well, contrived. 3006 ft/sec with a 150 30-06 - ever heard of IMR 4350? 2874 with a 165 - H 4350 beats that. 3046 with a 120 in a 25-06 - Retumbo will do it easily.

My point being the loads Alliant picked to compare are a tad conservative and help fuel hype. I see nothing special about the velocities obtained with Re 17 so far - maybe an extra 50 ft/sec here or there.

I'm also a little leary of the 284 data. Based on the attached WORD doc, the 280 Rem only digests 51.5 grains under a 160 for 2825. Even assuming pressure was held to 60K, it ain't ever going to reach much over 2950 if pushed to 63-64K- which is doable by several powders in existence.

I hope RE 17 lives up to its billing but it is still a mix of the same chemcials currently being used. Unless someone comes up with a new chemcial to add to the mix, I can't see huge increases.
Posted By: Azshooter Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
Coal of 284 with 162 A-max is 3.073". The mag box was lengthened so it barely fits but does feed. The reamer was what my gunsmith has on hand.

When this barrel goes south or I can't stand it anymore. I will be buying a Lilja SS and have it cut to 26". I'll have Dave Kiff (Pacific Tool and Gauge) make a 284 reamer to my specs with the throat a bit closer so the 168 VLD and 162 A-max fit with some leeway. Based on what I have seen with a custom reamer for the 257, 22-250 AI and 7 RUM, Dave designs the throat angle a tiny bit differently than usual for the VLD style bullets and it works. I am having fits making this A-max shoot accurately( under 3/4") but I am certain it is the design of the chamber reamer. This rifle shoots nice clusters with the TSX and other hunting bullets.

PRM: For grins I tried some RL-17 in a 358 with a 20" barrel. With a case full and compressed, the 225 gr bullet was 100 fps behind a load using RL-15. The 338 version might do slightly better especially if it has a longer barrel. Check out this link and go to the bottom to see some comparisons of other cartridges.

Edited..here is link http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

I have a pound on the way to try in my .280 with the 120gr BT. It should be here this week looking forward to seeing what it will do.
Posted By: xp100 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
Tried reloader 17 in a kimber montana, with 180 grain partition's. First charge was 64 at 2940,jumped to 65 at 3000. Then went to 66 at 3050, with hard extraction and sticky bolt lift. I get the same result's with hodgon 4350. Forgot to add it was a 300 wsm.
Posted By: SamOlson Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/11/09
So she was a bit hot at 3050fps!

I've Chrony'd some factory 180's(Winchester lubed AB's) and they went 2980-3020fps(24" barrels on two different rifles). Seemed hot to my novice eye, but who knows.

2950fps is my comfort level with 180's and H4350. 3050 with 165's even better. My speed freak phase was pretty brief....grin

This does sound like interesting powder though.

Has JB written anything on it yet?
Posted By: Freddy Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/12/09
I sure would like to post some results but I can't find any RL 17 out here, I called the manufacturer, they said they ship directly to the distributer and sent out a large shipment at the end of December. Sportsmens warehouse in Reno may be getting some in a week from Thursday, hope this subject does not go away untill I can make some of my own tests.
Posted By: 1flier Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/13/09
They lied to ya. The last shipment coming into this country was a mere 20K pounds. For the whole country that's not a big shipment and that's why nobody's got any 5 pounders left, except Bruno, who's asking $95 for them. I don't know when more will come but I would hope it would be more than 20K pounds.

1flier
Posted By: RNF Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/13/09
I purchased four pounds the date on the bottles is December 12 2008 .

I have loaded up some more 300 Saum loads with half grain increments and the bullets closer to the lands looking for best accuracy.

Also loaded up some 160 for the 7MM Saum to check. Maybe I will get a chance to shoot these this weekend.
Posted By: CGPAUL Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/13/09
Just got my two lbs. Will try in the .250x3000AI with 115 Bergers, and the 8x57 with the 180`s. Should work.
Posted By: 284dave Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/13/09
FYI, Graf's & Sons still has RL17 in stock.
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/17/09
More 300 WSM results.

185 Berger VLD.

Win brass and primer.

65 grains of RL17 for 3,060.

Shot two 1" groups today at 300 yards.

ES of 6.

Posted By: Azshooter Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/17/09
More 284 win results. Retried the moly coated 150 nos bt with RL-17. Previously the absolute max load was determined at 59 gr, vel approx 3250. This time tried:

57.5 gr, vel 3135
58.0 gr, vel 3150
58.5 gr, vel 3180

58 gr shot the best with a three shot group of .366". Naturally more verification is needed to adopt this load.

Onward to the 140 nos bt. Will start with the same OAL as the 150 bt.

Details:
Rifle: barrel 23" rem takeoff, OAL 3.050" with bullet .010" off lands.
Chronograph. CED Millenium at 10 ft, temp 50-55 degrees.
Posted By: bludog Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/17/09
I have a 284 win and those are some incredible numbers. 2960 fps is about all I've managed with a 150 grain NBT (no moly) - no pressure signs. And 2870 fps is about all a 160 gr Accubond will do (again no moly). This is with a 24" barrel. Just out of curiosity, what kind of velocities did you get with say H-4350, RL-19 or W-760 out of your gun with those same bullets?
Posted By: leftycarbon Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/17/09
SU,

How much barrel do you have on that .300?

Lefty C
Posted By: Freddy Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
Azshooter, those are impressive results, I would like to try RL 17 in my 284 but it's not available here yet, my local sporting goods store along with Sportsmens warehouse has some on order. I have a 22 inch barrel on my 284, oal is limited to 3.000 due to magazine restrictions and with a long throat with that oal I am .125 off the lands. What would you suggest as a starting load with 140 gr Barnes xlc bullets.
Posted By: MtnHtr Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
All,

Simply incredible! I have this thread bookmarked.

And thanks for sharing your results,

MtnHtr
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
Quote
SU,

How much barrel do you have on that .300?

Lefty C


I'm shooting a 26" attached to a FN SPR action.

I took it to 67 grains and could tell I was on thin ice pressure wise. The ES was going crazy so I backed off two grains, I feel that I have found the sweet spot for this load.

This powder is supposed to have a 4350 burn rate. The Nosler guide shows 65 grains max when using a 180 and that is where I am at.

I should be able to get 3,000 shooting the 190 VLD.

Can we use 4350 data and get higher speed?
I think so and so do the people who produce RL17.



Posted By: SamOlson Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
SU35, you're subbing IMR4350 charges?
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
Yes, so far that is what I am doing on the learning curve here.

Posted By: SamOlson Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
Roger that, interesting.

Thanks.
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
This load data is from the RL web site for RL 17

300 WSM 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.800 66.0 3082

300 WM 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.340 70.5 3074


Don't you find it interesting that the 300 WSM list a higher speed
than the 300 Win Mag yet uses 4.5 grains less powder.
Has not Winchester been saying that all along and yet people
pooh pooh it. I see this with other loads as well.
Does cartridge design matter?

I am one grain less than what is listed and have a 2.980 COAL.
I'm also shooting a 185.
Posted By: SamOlson Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
This stuff(pressure) is way over my head SU35.

Pretty cool seeing what you guys are getting speed-wise though.

Posted By: kraky111 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
For your enjoyment....here is a guy breaking 4000 fps with a 300 wsm.....NO KIDDING. (that case is one tough mother)
AND IMAGINE....HE HASN'T EVEN TAPPED INTO THE NEW RE17 POWDER....IT WASN'T HERE YET!

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.co...fps-30-cal-varminter-a-hit-with-hunters/
Posted By: SamOlson Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
Whooeee!


Looks like he is using VV550.
I shot some 150's with that stuff and I think they went 3250fps(the fastest velocity I've gotten with my WSM).
Posted By: kraky111 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
YUPPER..I'm still trying to figure out how he's doing it without blowing every primer. I guess the action is so strong and the chamber so good that the brass is simply like a "chamber lining" but I still can't figure how primers are staying put.
Posted By: SamOlson Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/18/09
Beats me, it really would be interesting to know his case life.

Hell, I'm curious to hear what the R17 guys are gonna get for case life.


For the time being I'm content with luke warm H4350 charges...grin

Posted By: RNF Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
I was out today with my 7MM Saum & 300 Saum here are the results. These are with Ruger rifles and 22 inch barrels

7MM Saum 160 Sierra Game King Federal 215 Primer
54.5 Grain 2955 & 2920 FPS

55.5 Grain 2955, 2965, & 2957 FPS

56.5 Grain 3oo5, 3011 & 3008 these grouped right at a inch.

300 Saum 180 Hornady SPire Pt Federal 215 Primer

61.5 Gain 2960, 2955 & 2952 thee shot into .78 inch

62.o Grain 2984, 2977, & 2968

62.5 Grain 2984, 2977, & 2988

63.0 Grain 3022, 3014, & 3017

The 61.5 grain load shot the best group in the 300 and exceeds the 2900 fps that I was looking for. If this will shoot the 180 grand slams anywhere near this it will be my elk load if not I may go with the Hornadys.

The 7MM Saum load of 56.5 grains matches a load I had with H1000 but without compressing the powder.
Posted By: SamOlson Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
Your .300 saum is haulin ass!
I haven't read this thread from start to here, but is there loading data available anywhere for R17 and with it pressure data as well?

Thx
Dober
or, anyone working RL17 magic on the 300 Win Mag - the other white meat?
Posted By: RNF Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
Mark

These loads are listed on the alliant site but they do not give pressures.

I have not shot any factory loads in my rifles but have helped scope and sight in 3 different WSM 2 300 and 1 7MM with factory ammo and they all showed more pressure sign than what I an seeing with RL17.

I have some flatness on the primer edges with the max loads but no extractor marks and no sticky bolts, still pressure data would be helpful, maybe on some of the new manuals from bullet companies soon.
Posted By: 1fstdsl Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
Originally Posted by RNF
I was out today with my 7MM Saum & 300 Saum here are the results. These are with Ruger rifles and 22 inch barrels

7MM Saum 160 Sierra Game King Federal 215 Primer
54.5 Grain 2955 & 2920 FPS

55.5 Grain 2955, 2965, & 2957 FPS

56.5 Grain 3oo5, 3011 & 3008 these grouped right at a inch.

300 Saum 180 Hornady SPire Pt Federal 215 Primer

61.5 Gain 2960, 2955 & 2952 thee shot into .78 inch

62.o Grain 2984, 2977, & 2968

62.5 Grain 2984, 2977, & 2988

63.0 Grain 3022, 3014, & 3017

The 61.5 grain load shot the best group in the 300 and exceeds the 2900 fps that I was looking for. If this will shoot the 180 grand slams anywhere near this it will be my elk load if not I may go with the Hornadys.

The 7MM Saum load of 56.5 grains matches a load I had with H1000 but without compressing the powder.


Nice numbers, your results are pretty consistant with mine. I seamed to gain more with the .300 Saum than I did with the 7mm Saum. Did you notice this with your rifles?
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
Data from the manufacturer.

Reloder� 17 was created with new technology to provide velocity greater than the competition in the most popular standard rifle calibers and the new short magnums. Following are recipes developed in our Ballistics Laboratory (all loads used Speer bullets and list the correct Overall Length- DO NOT SEAT THE BULLETS TO A LESS OVERALL LENGTH). These recipes are maximum loads and shall not be exceeded.

LOAD DATA RECIPES FOR RELODER� 17

Caliber Bullet Case Primer COAL Chg Wgt Velocity
223 WSM 55 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.210 46.6 3865
243 Win 80 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.615 44.0 3362
243 Win 85 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.625 43.7 3316
243 Win 100 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.625 40.8 3044
243 WSM 70 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.185 49.0C 3745
243 WSM 80 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.255 44.5 3512
243 WSM 85 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.255 45.5 3452
243 WSM 100 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.290 41.0 3128

6mm Rem 70 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.775 48.5C 3682
6mm Rem 80 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.775 46.7 3500
6mm Rem 85 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.775 46.0 3441
6mm Rem 100 gr BTSP
Fed Fed 210 2.800 44.0 3163

25-06 87 gr SP Fed Fed 210 3.115 54.5 3547
25-06 120 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 48.5 3012

6.5x55(mil) 90 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.850 48.53223
6.5x55(mil) 120 gr SP Fed Fed 210 3.000 41.52741

260 Rem 120 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.720 44.0 2912
260 Rem 140 gr SP Fed Fed 210 2.745 41.0 2645

270 WSM 100 gr HP Fed Fed 215 2.730 67.5 3668
270 WSM 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.700 62.0 3258
270 WSM 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.700 60.0 3041

270 Win 100 gr HP Fed Fed 210 3.100 59.0 3554
270 Win 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 54.0 3136
270 Win 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 51.5 2921

280 Rem 110 gr HP Fed Fed 210 3.200 59.5 3397
280 Rem 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.205 56.0 3167
280 Rem 145 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.180 53.0 2968
280 Rem 160 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 51.5 2825
280 Rem 175 gr GS Fed Fed 210 3.265 50.5 2674

7 WSM 110 gr HP Win Fed 215 2.770 69.5 3588
7 WSM 130 gr BTSP Win Fed 215 2.775 66.5 3356
7 WSM 145 gr BTSP Win Fed 215 2.760 63.5 3166
7 WSM 160 gr BTSP Win Fed 215 2.820 60.0 2964

7 mm-08 110 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.760 50.5C 3169
7 mm-08 115 gr HP Fed Fed 210 2.655 49.5C 3107
7 mm-08 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.730 48.5C 3007
7 mm-08 145 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.730 46.0 2819
7 mm-08 160 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.800 44.0 2669
7 mm-08 175 gr GS Fed Fed 210 2.745 44.0 2574

7 mm RM 110 gr HP Fed Fed 215 3.200 68.0 3535
7mm RM 130 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.200 63.5 3255
7 mm RM 145 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.210 61.8 3113
7mm RM 160 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.210 59.0 2931
7 mm RM 175 gr GS Fed Fed 215 3.215 67.0 2774
7mm RM 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.700 50.0C 2763

308 Win 165 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.800 50.0C 2739
308 Win 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 2.800 48.7C 2641

30-06 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.250 58.0 3006
30-06 165 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.250 56.5 2874
30-06 168 gr BTHP Fed Fed 210 3.295 56.0 2850
30-06 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.250 54.5 2762
30-06 200 gr SP Fed Fed 210 3.250 51.0 2552
300 WSM 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.810 69.3 3343

300 WSM 165 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.810 68.0 3217
300 WSM 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.800 66.0 3082

300 WM 150 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.330 74.0 3333
300 WM 165 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.340 72.5 3202
300 WM 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.340 70.5 3074

325 WSM 150 gr S-SP Win Fed 215 2.850 71.5 3348
325 WSM 170 gr S-SP Win Fed 215 2.790 65.0 3131
325 WSM 200 gr SP Win Fed 215 2.840 65.0 2897
338 WM 200 gr SP Fed Fed 215 3.300 71.0 3002

338 WM 225 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.340 67.5 2831
338 WM 250 gr GS Fed Fed 215 3.300 66.0 2664



Posted By: Azshooter Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
Bludog,

The before loads with that longer OAL 284:

I have to agree with SU35, that load data for 4350 is a good starting point. 58 gr of H4350 with moly used to be THE load with a 140 in this rifle. (57 gr without moly)



3000-3075 with a 140 (sierra gameking, nos bt, nos pt, TSX)
2900-2950 with a 150 nos pt
2800-2850 with 160 nos pt never tried any VLD type bullets back then.

All loads above were with moly coated bullets

---------------------------------------------

Tried some 140 nos bt yesterday. Not anywhere near as accurate with the testing. 59 gr was pretty much max. I seated the bullets without changing the depth from the 150 nos bt (lazy) and they were contacting the rifling which did not occur with the 150s.



58 gr of RL-17 yielded 3240 fps
58.5 3265 fps
59 3285 fps
59.5 was right at 3300 fps with signs of pressure (extractor marks)

I am going back to shoot the 150 nos bt load again to verify the accuracy. I would love to shoot the A-max and maybe even the 168 Berger VLD but this particular chamber has shown that it doesn't like those style bullets. Rem barrel's twist is 1 in 9.5 so it should stabilize the 162/168. I feel it is the throat dimensions that cause this issue. Standard hunting bullets generally shoot well in the rifle.

I would be interested in future tests anyone does with the 7 rem mag or 7 WSM.
Posted By: DarkStar Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
I find this thread very interesting as i have a model 7mm SAUM on hold at the local gun store. John Haviland wrote an article for Handloader April 2005 no.234 where he tests the same rifle with the 22" tube, here are his results with the factory loads:

140gr Rem psp core-lokt ultra- 3,090fps .77" *average of three, three shot groups

150gr Rem core-lokt- 3,090fps .90" *group average

160gr Rem core-lokt ultra- 2,893fps *1.82" group average

The 22" tube didnt lose as much velocity as i would have thought
SU35,

I wonder if it will show an advantage in the 300 Win Mag with light for caliber (Barnes 130 TTSX) bullets?
Posted By: DMB Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
Over the weekend I loaded up a bunch of different bullets in 25-06 around this load:
25-06 120 gr BTSP Fed Fed 210 3.200 48.5 3012
All that has to happen now is, the temp must get above zero degrees F, the wind gotta stop blowin', and someone needs to get the snow off the rifle range as I can't get in to shoot.. grin
Pray for spring....
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
Quote
SU35,

I wonder if it will show an advantage in the 300 Win Mag with light for caliber (Barnes 130 TTSX) bullets?



I would try 76 grains and bet it gets another 100 fps at least.

Posted By: kyreloader Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/19/09
My result today were very promising for my 6.5x284.

Here are my results for 28 inch barrel, 140g JLK's with Lapua brass and CCI BR primers at 0.010 into lands:

49.8g -3106/29/15
50.1g -3130/18/10
50.3g -3139/10/5
50.7g -3151/16/8
51g -3179/13/7

This compares quite favorably to my load of H4831SSC-51.2g at 2950g and 52.6g with N560 at 3045fps.
Posted By: RNF Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/20/09
1fstdsl

Yes my 300 Saum did benefit more from RL 17 than the 7MM Saum.
Posted By: RNF Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/20/09
kyleloader

I have been using VV N560 in my 300 Saum with good results, but it has severe muzzle blast compared with the other powders. Have you noticed this with your 6.5x284?
Posted By: kyreloader Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/20/09
RNF, no. I have read that the muzzle blast is more with N560 and also about secondary pressure spikes with the 500 series VV powder after the bullet leaves the barrel.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=923087#Post923087

I have not noticed any difference with N560 and other powders that I have shot in this rifle. I am not sure if the 28 inches of barrel make any difference though.
Posted By: Freddy Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/20/09
Wow, those velocities are what you would expect from a 264 mag.
Posted By: prm Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/20/09
I have been shooting RL17 in my 338-06 and have been quite happy. Nothing magical, but still pleased. For the limited tests I have done, it has been very accurate and basically equaled H4350 velocities when at 1-1.5 less grains of powder. There is no published data to go off of so I don't know how much more I can safely push things. I'm at 2720 with 62 grains of RL17 pushing a 210 Scirocco II out of a 22" barrel. The same day I was at 2590 with a 215 Gameking at 62 grains of H4350. Interestingly, the same 62gn H4350 load (same lot of powder, same brass, etc) shot 2645 (all are 3 shot avgs) a week ago across the same chrono at the same distance. Not sure what to make of that. 60 grains of RL17 with 225 Accubonds gets ~2600 and shoots very nice groups (.292, okay that one was probably lucky, but still others are ~.5-.6). I'm thinking that will make a very nice hunting load. Loads at ~2700 with the Scirocco II result in ~.6'-.7" groups which I'm very happy with as well. Either matches the ballistic plex reticle very well making them quite user friendly in the field. With both retaining over 2000fps and 2000lbs/ft of energy beyond 500yds when elk hunting they are more than adequate.
Posted By: Ol` Joe Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/21/09
OK, you guys are corrupting me.
I was browsing the shelfs at my neighborhood shop and spied a couple cans of R17. Remembering I`ve been trying hard to ignore this thread, I broke down and am going to give it a shot.
Ain`t like I need more powder choices.........
Posted By: SU35 Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/21/09
Joe, just treat it like 4350 and watch what happens. grin

Posted By: magnumb Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 01/21/09
That's sayin somethin', 'cuz 4350 is about the most universal powder around...........

Might have to take a look at RL17 as i use a lot of RL22 and RL25 now.......love the stuff.
Posted By: nimrodtracy Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 03/29/09
How much have you guys been paying for R17?
I loaded up some 300 wsm in 165 grain sierra hpbt gamkings and was not able to chrono because battery was dead but did get max load info based on bolt lift and primer crater. Here's the data..
66 gr. R-17 no stiffness in bolt and primer looks great
67 gr. R-17 tiny bit of bolt stiffness but no primer crater
67.5 gr. R-17 little stiffer bolt, slight cratering of primer
68 gr. R-17 significanly stiff bolt lift, clear cratering of primer. Based on this data in my kimber 8400, I would not go over 67 grains R-17 in 165 bullets. I just wish I had some chrono data.
Posted By: Gringo Loco Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 03/30/09
Originally Posted by nimrodtracy
How much have you guys been paying for R17?

I paid $26 for 1 lb last week. I'm close to Tomball.
Posted By: Freddy Re: My Reloader 17 Results - 03/30/09
I would guess that your 67 gr load is running about 3100 fps, I was getting 3126 with 68 gr and the 168 gr Barnes xlc bullet.
Originally Posted by Freddy
I would guess that your 67 gr load is running about 3100 fps, I was getting 3126 with 68 gr and the 168 gr Barnes xlc bullet.


Thanks for the feedback on the approximate velocity.
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