Well, obviously we've all started to hear a bit of the RL17 BUZZ, and I've been curious about it for some time.

Since I've known SD on this and another forum for a good long time, and I know he's an honest reporter and a guy that doesn't red-line, his RL17 post sparked something in me to try and locate some of the stuff... as luck would have it, one stop at Yellowstone Gateways Sports and I had a pound (they got their first shipment yesterday!).

I'm totally under the weather with a cold, but since I found out my 300 WSM has a potential liking for the 200 gr Partition, and since it was a drop-dead beautiful, warm, and windless day, I decided to ignore my cold and work up some loads based on SD's post and the Alliant website.

I took the Kimber MT and went up to our property in the Shields Valley this evening (the nearly full moon was just rising over the Crazy Mountains). I set up the chrono and bench and hunkered down for some shooting.

200 gr. Nosler Partition / WW Bras / Fed 210 Primers / Seated .030" off lands:

62.0 = 2,858
62.5 = 2,861

By comparison, 61.5 gr's of H4350 gives 2,801 fps in this rifle.

180 gr. Nosler Partition / WW Bras / Fed 210 primers / Seated .030" off lands:

64.5 = 3,037 fps
65.0 = 3,067 fps

By comparison, 63.5 gr's of H4350 gives 2,954 fps in this rifle.

All loads gave similar (easy) bolt lift as my H4350 loads (which are .5 gr's below Hodgdon's MAX loads).

With the 200's I'd go with the 62.0 gr load... it gives exactly the same .9" accuracy that H4350 has given and obviously going .5 gr higher yielded very little velocity gain which leads me to believe the 62.0 gr load is MAX in my rifle.

With the 180's I'd be comfortable with either 64.5 or 65.0 gr's... since I'm conservative by nature, I'd go with the 64.5 gr load just to keep everything nice and easy.

This particular Kimber dotes on 168 TSX's and now (apparently) 200 partitions, but absolutely doesn't like any 180 grain bullet I've tried in it (go figure!). The 64.5 gr/RL 17 load turned in a 1.25" group (which is totally acceptable) but this rifle shoots much better and more consistently with heavier and lighter bullets.

So, at first blush I'd absolutely give Alliant credit that, at least with the 300 WSM cartridge, the hype appears to be true. Obviously more testing is warranted but, so far, I'd cautiously say RL17 is a real winner, giving identical accuracy as H4350, but a fair bit more velocity.

BTW, a word of caution, Alliant's site lists 66.0 gr's with a 180 Speer (300 WSM)... that would be over MAX in my rifle.

Mac, thx for the report.

Next up, I'd encourage you to take 3 case with your 200 load and 3 with your 180 load and keep loading em up and firing them. See how many times you can load them b4 the primer pockets get too loose. 4 me this would be quite telling as to how much was too much.

Just a thunk

Dober

Interesting Brad, thanks for sharing the info.

3050+ is cruising right along for the little fatty!

Pretty cool huh Brad.

What's your ES?


Your results pretty much line up with mine.

And near identical results with my M-70......


Hello WSM , goodbye 300 Winchester (grin)

Hmmmm... Just when I thought I was done with my 7mm saum...

Could be wrong here but, I'd be for betting if it's doing some wonder work with the WSM (with good case life, the one thing to date not spoken of or worked thru) then I'd be for betting it'll do the same thing for the 300 Win.

One way or another there will still be the speed diff between the two is my opinion.

Dober

Rancho-that is one cool lil rig, don't give up on her yet. Now once you see my redone G33/270 then you can begin to give up on her...grin

Dober

Nah - I'm not giving up on it, just thought I was close to finding a load. I was liking Magpro, but now Gateway has RL 17 for me to mess around with...

I read somewhere that '17 is dirty...

grin

I like dirty.. Wait, are we talking about powder?

laughin'


You buy a can?

I'll pick up my gopher gun near there this week. I'll see if I can sneak a can into the trip.

Dober...that's why I stuck the (grin) in there . I knew that crack would stir someone's pot (grin again)

Mark, according to Alliant's data, it doesn't really boost the 300 WM http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...ght=180&shellid=141&bulletid=189 ... apparently it was "formulated" specifically for the short mag case geometry, and that is where any increase in speed will be found.

I've seen a solid 50 - 100 fps increase in speed with 165, 180 and 200 grain bullets (depending). Not monumental, but since the powder is temp insensitive like H4350 and is giving slightly better groups and equally low ES's, what's not to like? http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/reloder17.aspx

Not the Second Coming, but a real boon for 300 WSM shooters... was at the range most of the evening and re-confirmed my first impression. The stuff WORKS in the 300 WSM.

Tonight at the range:

Great pic, and no doubt the WSM is getting the attention these days so it doesn't suprise me to see their data like this.

I could be wrong but I'm still bettin that if people work the 300 WM to the same pressures as one is running R17 that they'll see comperable gains over regular 300 WM data. But then again maybe not, time will tell.

To date I've yet to see/read where anyone has taken a couple of cases and ran them time and time again to see how long the primer pockets will stay tight with this kind of gas around them.

I realize that several Fire members are using the powder, and several are seeing the gains (which is pretty darn cool). But I still want to see that the case life is still there with these kinds of speeds/pressures.

No doubt I've seen this type of thing happen b4 as I've seen R22 time and time again prove to me that a powder can have those kinds of speeds gains over other (like the 4350's and 4831's) powders.

It'll be fun to see how it all works out a year from now when lots of people have had considerable amounts of time in with the new product. And with the varrying different lots to come, no doubt some will be even faster and some will be slower.

Incredible isn't it the amount of new stuff that hits the market every year?

All powder gack aside how'd the bugger shoot today?

Dober

I posted this already Mark and in light of this conversation I 'll repeat it.

Ah, the eternal skeptic

My question is how in the heck do you get 3K with a 150 in the 270 Win's 23" tube?

RL22, WW414, RL19, H4350, H4831, Ramshot Hunter, Ramshot Big Game... none have gotten close for me what RL17 has done in the 300 WSM, and I'm running a full 1.5 gr's below Allinat's data with my rifle.

Could just be the hype is real?

I'm not willing to bet the farm yet... but am close.

Rifle shot GREAT... forgot a few things I had to re-learn... ie, a barrel shoots better when thoroughly broken-in (CLEANED between the first four or five rounds) and definitely some factory tubes show a real increase in accuracy with over 100 rounds through them. This one definitely has.

180 NP's were in the 3/4" range (and below) with RL17 at a slightly reduced load of 64 gr's and seated a full .050" off the lands (3,016 fps).

The 200 gr NP's continued their same boring accuracy.

Shot the 165 AB... went 3,145 fps no problem with 66.5 gr's of RL17. As usual, didn't shoot very well (around 1.4"... exactly what they do in my 308)... they might be the most consistently mediocre bullet I've ever used.

Good and interesting reading no doubt, but I wish to see someone(that I actually know) run the 300 WM at similar pressures and see how it goes. Call me a skeptic but I don't always trust what I read. I do trust what I hear from people I know and trust however so I'll wait and see...grin

Plus I really wanna see someone running these kinds of speeds and getting 7-10 loadings out of a case.

Cynical bugger eh...grin

Dober

Mark, the point is advances in powders actually CAN happen... there are a few smart engineers, that know a thing or two more than me, out there working on problems my meager mind can't cope with. The 300 WSM has been out enough years now, and has achieved enough popularity, that I'd be willing to bet several brainiac's have been at work on this powder for quite some time.

Do you really think Alliant, in this day of litigation, is going to make claims that pressure data doesn't support?

It's a good thing we didn't all sit back and accept the 2,700 fps the early powders gave us with the 150 grainer in the 30-06 Springfield's 24" barrel back in 1906... 3,050 fps today is no problem with that bullet in that barrel length... something absolutely unheard of in it's day.

Seems to me a 50 - 100 fps gain (or whatever the real gain is) is relatively small by comparison.

Mac, how's this fittin the conversation? (really I think I know so never mind)

But being as you asked we'll take this thread for a slight detour. I guess if you work with enough 270's and with enough tubes sooner or later you'll find a quick footed bugger that'll do something like that. The one you're talking about of mine would do it with a book load of R22 and 150 Nozlers. I sure wouldn't be for counting on one doing it very darn often but I've seen it personally once and have a couple of buds who have done it b4 as well.

A fella will see fast tubes, and one will see slow tubes is my way of looking at this gack.

Mark, the point is I don't have any reloading manual that shows, and have never had any 270 tube that would do, 3K with a 150 (22-23" bbl).

I'm absolutely not saying it's not possible because obviously you're getting there, but to further the point, just because I haven't seen something doesn't mean it's not realistic or possible (safely).

I think that relates very well to some of the points you're obviously trying to make here.

PS Amigo, here's a pic of the full moon rising above the Crazies for ya!

Where we watched those two Antelope bucks fighting was just to the right of the pic:

Brad, the only obvious point I was trying to make is I'd like to see the case life. If one can get the case life with those kinds of speeds then it's wonderful.

The only other point I was trying to make is I'd be for thinking that if similar pressures are run with a 300 winne then it would be seeing the same kinds of gains.

I know that the speeds are real, I've heard what's been said but I still wish to see that the case life is there. I've long thought that the WSM's camo pressures fairly well and case life for me is one way to sort of play around that. But that is only how my meager mind works.

Those were my only points, wasn't taking any below the belt shots either.

Mark, IMO that's a layman's thinking... the WSM case exhibits a different pressure curve (apparently) than the WM case and RL17 is formulated accordingly, which is why you'll never see the same gain in the WM case, just as the same powders that are optimum in the WM aren't optimum in the WSM.

Apples/Oranges...

No offense guys....but there is nothing magical about the wsm case except it is tougher and being run to higher pressure. In the long run I will be shocked (but it won't be the first time) if anyone proves short and fat is faster.

There absolutely is nothing "magical" about the WSM case. Period. Everyone knows that. "Fat is NOT faster" and I've never, ever said so. Even with RL17, the 300 WM is still, in most rifles, a solid 50 - 100 fps faster. How the WSM case burns powder and what it's pressure curve is IS different and that also is a known quantity and has been proven in the labs. RL17 was formulated to work optimally in the short-fat and it indeed seems to do just that as no other powder of all those I listed above have given the velocities with the 300 WSM that RL17 has... obviously this is a hard concept to grasp.

I'm also starting to think something is afoot with RE 17 - too many folks with higher reported velocities. I do believe every cartridge has an ideal burn rate associated with the case idiosyncracies. The magic behind some of the ammo mfgs specialized loadings (Heavy mags for example) is the marriage of an idealized powder, and associated burn rate, developed for a specific case or range of cases. In essence, we are trying to gain more area under the pressure/time curve. Possibly RE 17 has done that for the WSM's.

I also can't quite understand the fast barrel thing - slow barrels yes, fast barrels no. The only way that can happen is either pressure is higher or physics is re-invented for the Ideal Gas Law. For example, my Dad has a McGowan barreled 24" 30-06 that will run 2900+ with 180 grain Sierra's with zero pressure signs and a book load of IMR 4350. There ain't no friggin way I'm buying its running at 60,000 psi or less. Ain't happening.

I note that those claiming special barrel status never have pressure tested data to substantiate their claims. The real test is simple - what does the preponderance of the evidence say? Using the 30-06, 2800 in an 06 is max, plus or minus a few feet per sec. There is only about 4 gazillion pressure tested loads that back that up. Same goes for every cartridge thats been in existence for any length of time.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to make of the "fast barrel", "slow barrel" thing... for sure, new powder technologies can increase velocities without excess pressure. OTOH, when guys are getting a solid 100 - 150 fps over what the books list with standard powders and identical book charges, my gut tells me there's no free lunch. Pressure = velocity.

But I'm not an engineer and have no way of being definitive about it.

All I ever wanted was a fast '06 anyway....grin

Ha!

You cannot misinterpret or mangle physics or empirical data enough to convince me that shape does not matter. It does.
---But then I must be biased due to falling for the 284 Win and 300WSM cases the moment I touched them off---before even trying to compare their shape vs performance.
I also bet that those brainiacs that are custom blending powder for the short, fats are taking after those infernal fishing lure people. Just out to catch the fisherman (by the wallet) not actually catch more and bigger fish.

The merits (or lack of) shape have been hammered here before.

There are very few instances in this world where shape does not matter--I am trying to think of one now but...
JMHO
Tim

Huh?

What's the point.

The point is-- you stated "the hype appears to be true" at the start.
I believe the "hype" is true even though I have yet to break the seal on my RL17. Some things do work better than others (sometimes) such as shape, chemistry, etc. I have no doubt that an improved shape and improved chemisty will show a little magic together. My 6.5x284, 284Win and 300WSM are anxious to take a shot at the new RL17.

My mind has a few cobwebs due to not shooting for a couple months, so sorry if off track or not clear. I took a mental health day today, and as of yet it is not working.

Thanks to those who have provided some load data here. I have no doubt that my results will match the hype and it is nice to have a reference point when using something new.
Tim

I believe "fast barrels" are mostly the result of fast (min. spec.) chambers. All of my custom barreled rifles have min. spec. chambers, as opposed to sloppy chambers in a lot of factory rifles. My custom barreled rifles usually reach max velocity with less powder than my factory rifles.

Tim, thanks for the clarification... I was wondering whether I had completely lost my ability to comprehend the written word.

If there is any "magic" in the WSM case it's in the way it burns powder likely... however, I don't believe it's any "faster" because of its case shape than if it had been made longer and skinnier with equal capacity.

I just think the WSM case design lends itself to excellent accuracy for reasons unknown to me. That may have to do with the way it burns powder.

As to RL17, I'm pretty well convinced its absolutely ideal in the 300 WSM. However, looking over the other WSM load data (270, 325) the gains that the 300 WSM shows don't appear to be there... I guess time will tell.

Bottom line, for me, I like the 300 WSM for no reason more than the Kimber Montana it's housed in.

That's likely one reason... variations between barrels may be another reason.

David Miller, who's not exactly inept when it comes to cobbling together accurate rifles, says in the several hundred 300 WBY's he's built (all Krieger barrels, obviously with custom chambers from just a few reamers), he's seen a 200 fps variation in velocity from the "slowest" to the "fastest" of those several hundred "identical" rifles.

I think there's a lot of unknowns when it comes to this stuff and what is the obvious answer might not be the "right" answer.

Today I worked up some more loads for my 300wsm using RL 17 and the 168 gr xlc bullets, The results using the xlc bullets were kind of confusing, here are my results from today. I was using new brass for these loads, the last load I fired yesterday was 67 gr and produced 3058 fps and expanded .0010



68 gr 3115fps +.0015 expansion



68.5 gr got an error reading +.0013 expansion



69 gr 3152 fps +.0020 expansion



There was no heavy bolt lift with these loads, with the expansion as much as it was there should have been a heavy bolt lift, I even used my other micromiter that measures in increments of .001 and it confirmed the amount of expansion. I was hoping to get to 3200 fps. I had better luck with the 200 gr x bullets, here are those results, I used once fired brass with these loads.



60.5 gr 2721 fps + .0006



61 gr 2737 fps + .0003



61.5 gr 2743 +.0002



62 gr 2766 +.0005



There was no heavy bolt lift with these loads either,as you can see the increase in velocity was very consistant with these loads. I checked the primer pockets using winchester magnum primers and they almost fell in the pocket without any effort, however I have had problems with these primers with the wsm winchester brass, I then checked the pockets with CCI 250 primers which is what I was using with these loads, they fit much tighter, they are .001 larger than the winchester primers. trying to figure out what is going on with the xlc loads, maybe the problem is the brass, once fired brass may make it easier to check for excessive pressure, besides not having a heavy bolt lift the primers looked ok, you could still see the radius of the primers,no ejector marks either, factory rounds have a heavier bolt lift.

I'd be pretty concerned about the WLR's falling in. And with the expansion you are seeing, I'd think those loads were hot.
I have had rifles that never got a sticky bolt lift, and am not sure it is always a reliable indicator.
Just my thoughts...

Brad--patience is a virtue---Thank you.
Winter, work , too many people had the best of me, but I am much better now. Anxious to get some knife projects done and get the can of RL17 out.
Freddy--- do you have the decimal place right for the expansion?? I don't have any problems with only a couple thousandths (.002") expansion.

Yes, I believe the measurements are correct, as an example one load went from .5001 to .5021, I believe that would be .002 expansion. you are correct but that is still too much expansion according to Barnes.

Check out www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html these guys know their stuff and are getting anywhere from 150 to 200+ fps out of short fat cases, including the 284 win, i'd say its the real deal

Went back out and refired some of the loads that I shot yesterday.This time I used once fired brass,I backed off from 69 gr to 68.5 gr as my top load, here are todays results.
Barnes 168 gr xlc
67.5 gr 3058

68 gr 3115

68.5 gr 3152

None of the cases expanded more than .0003
When I get a chance and the weather clears up, I am going to fire a five shot string for average, I have a load built up with 70 gr of IMR 4831 that averages 3115, looks like RL 17 does add a little speed to the 300 wsm. I also fired a five shot string using 61.5 gr of RL 17 and the 200 gr Barnes X bullet, I got an average of 2748 with that load. I built up a load about two months ago consisting of 74 gr of Ramshot magnum, that load averaged 2736 and shoots one inch groups, I don't know if RL 17 can match it for accuracy.

Expansion means nothing.

Both Barnes and Nosler use expansion to check for excessive pressure, don't know if they have pressure testing equipment. Checking primer pockets don't help much either when building loads in my 300 wsm, if I use winchester primers they fit looser even after only one fireing, cci primers fit much tighter, they are .001 larger in diameter.

Freddy.....where at on the case are you taking your measurements ?

The intitial expansion sounds horrible , but it could be due to first firing of the case in a sloppy chamber .

Here is a good post discussing expansion.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...&topic=0&Search=true#Post1369854

I have discovered that new brass expands much more than once fired brass.

I am taking my measurements on the web just in front of the extractor groove.

Howdy. I just signed up but i have been reading for a while.today i did a bunch of chrno work with a 300 wsm and because of this thread i shot 2 pieces of brass to see how long they would last.one was Rem and one was winchester well i wore out before they did i quit at 20 times.the load was:190 gr match king bullet with cci 200 primer and 66.0 grs. of RL-17.the brass was fired before i started about 3 or 4 times oh the load shot 3019 fps.Good Luck

Interesting, good to hear.

That's a seriously stout load but it obviously worked well for you. 20 re-loads is a fair bit more than I'd expect for sure. Thanks for the input.

Hey 456 - interesting and alot more than I ever figured possible.

Hey Sam! About that 300WSM WW brass..........

I ran a test on the 300WSM about three years ago. I reloaded one group of WW brass 10 times before I arbitrarily decided I'd gotten my value from them. There were a variety of loads in the 150gr. to 180gr. bullet weight to decide what worked best in the Kimber.
The reloads were full length sized every time, by the way. RL17 seems like a good prospect.

I just did the math.

Figure I'm good for about 5000 firings.....grin
(slopped out a 3" group at 400 yards this morning)

Well, if the brass is lasting that long I have more good news. Over at long range shooting a very well respected gun expert is reporting that the wsm is winning big favor with long range shooters over the 300 win mag because barrels seem to be lasting 2x's and even 3x's longer although no one really seems to know why. Here's his final comment:
The 2008 IBS 1000 yard shooter of the year and Nationals champ is Danny Brooks who has been a long time Win Mag shooter. However, he won this year with a WSM that had 4000 rounds at the Nationals. No Win Mag has ever done that with half that many rounds in the tube.

Sweet!

I'll take that slop anytime............good for you Sam!

You had better be finding the exact quote on that one there kraky........'cuz no doubt, someone will be callin' you out on that one!!!..........

The 300WSM just happens to do what I need it to.......no more, no less. I've said all along that the 300WSM might very well be MY answer to "what one cartridge would you choose for all your big game huntin'".....'course, I'd hate to limit myself in that regard.

It also goes a loooooong ways to showin' that it has ALOT to do with the NUT behind the trigger as well. But that is a heck of a very large, round count, no matter who or what!

Thanks for the report/news flash...............

Could it be because it burns less powder than the 300 Win mag?

Thanks for the info Brad. If I didn't have almost 8lbs. of H-4350 on the shelf I'd like to try RL 17. It appears it'd have potential in 243/100gr, 30-06/165gr, and 280/139gr. Maybe once my powder supply gets low I'll try it.

Went out and tried to see how accurate the Rl 17 load that I worked up using the Barnes 168 gr xlc would shoot, brought along some rounds loaded with 70 gr IMR 4831 with the same bullet, that load averages 3115 fps. I used 68 gr of RL 17, five shot average was 3126 fps, extreme spread was 29 and Standard deviation was 13. My origional load was 68.5 gr but I backed it off a half a grain cause I kind of skeptical about what the pressures are, primers look ok, easy bolt lift but I would like to see some numbers as far as pressure goes with similiar loads.It was too windy to compare the two loads for accuracy, as far as velocity goes I am a little bit dissapointed. My 284 is another story, got a big increase in velocity but still have some work to do on those loads, I will share those results when i am finished.

Freddy--you are probably sick of my prediction with ql but I'm glad you found a "like" load with the 4831 in comparison with re17. QL thinks that you might be operating close to 66k pressure with either powder...although it can't take into effect freebore or temp when you were shooting. At this point without pressure testing equip about the only way to find out if re17 has magic would be to slightly elevate both charges till you experience that "heavy factory bolt lift" that was talked about in earlier posts. If you find it with the I4831 (which I'm guessing would be the next 1-1.5 of powder) but the re17 keeps going beyond that I would have to believe it is delaying the pressure build with it's formula. Don't know if you want to be a guinna pig here or not....but if you did it could be interesting.

After reading through this whole thread I'm wondering if RL 17 would be a good powder to try in my 358 WSSM with 225 Accubonds.
Just thinking out load.

Hey Tom - 358 WSSM or WSM?

A 35 WSSM would be one stout looking bastid...............

You read it right .358 WSSM
Yep its pretty cool looking.

Kraky, I am not tired of your predictions, in fact they are helpfull, thats why I decided to back off a little on my origional load. which ever load shoots best is the one I will go with, a deer or an elk is not going to notice a difference of a few feet per second.

I have had exceptional results in the WSM case with a lot# of Norma MRP I have plenty of. It yields similar velocities [3085] to that shown for the RL17 here with long case life and no pressure issues. However, That same powder breaks 3140 in my 308 Norma Mag easily with similar pressure indications. I have some cases on their 8th firing with no primer pocket looseness at all.
I don't swallow the "short fat" theories that have been thrown around at all. Given capacities yield given results, period. The Short mags are an interesting development, but don't do anything that hasn't been done already. I like them, but I also like a host of other chamberings. Regards, Eagleye.

Freddy--you are absolutely correct about a few fps don't mean much for hunting. I had just picked up in several of your posts that you were wanting a bit more vel and I think you have a bit of room to go with the re17.
I have a tikka in 300 win mag that shoots 180's at 300 yds into groups that would make the average guy happy at 100 but it does so at about 2975 fps. The gun has freebore and I think it could easily do another 100 fps if pushed but there isn't really any point.
I have read there are some newer high energy slow powders coming down the pike for calibers like the rum and 30-378. So, all this pushing with re17 is just the begining. It will be interesting when someone gets a pressure gauge hooked up to some of the calibers we all shoot and compare the high energy stuff to our good old powders that have been around for a while.

Obligatory WSM bashing: "Only three rounds in the mag! Expensive factory ammo! Real men shoot full-size, belted, time-honored magnums! The lower recoil is a myth! The increased accuracy is a myth!"

I thought the AI type characteristics of the WSM would lead to long case life. Glad to see that borne out! Also looks like there's quite a bit to like about short-fat case design, the BR community already knew the accuracy was there.

Sounds like an 8-lb. can of RL17 needs to find its way to my bench.

Kraky, I am going to send you a PM.

I just opened up a can. Will be trying it under some 150g etips in my T3.

Good luck, my RL 17 results are dissapointing as far as speed goes, got only a small gain over IMR 4831. Accuracy was horrible, 3 inch groups at 100 yards, however it was windy and I had a hard time holding the crosshairs steady, will wait for calm weather and see what happens.

I was just reading the allient powder manual. The RL17 is specifically designed for short mag cases. I've been reloading my 300 WSM with RL19 and 180 gr accubond and it shoots them very well. They recommend RL22 for the 300 win.

RL 17 is a great powder, after having bad luck due to windy conditions I went back on a calm day and shot groups under an inch. My favorite load is 66.5 gr of RL 17 behind the 165 gr ttsx, runs 3166, shot a group that measured .569.

Freddy...this was an old thread and now revived. You wound up exactly where I did with a buddies 300 wsm browning and the 168ttsx. We wound up doing 3140fps and great groups.....same load of re17.
We had clocked fed factory 165s and they had extractor marks and were going 3140. So we figured 3140 was about Max but with re17 we have no extractor marks, or primer loosening.
My buddy got a big moose on a guided "hunt of a lifetime" with the load and the recovered bullet looked like a Barnes ad! Mission accomplished!

Not a .300 WSM, but a 6.5-284. Shooting 140 gr. Bergers, my accuracy load with Vv N-165 pushed the bullet at 2,950 fps. Over that, it started showed pressure signs and accuracy loss.

With RL-17, I can push it to 3,100 fps, with best accuracy around 3,000 fps. Early pressure signs at 3,100+ with RL-17 were not unlike early pressure signs with Vv 165 at 3,000 fps. That's a pretty good spread.

DF

I have been using RL17 for 3 or 4 years now in my 300 wsm and 270 WSM.

In my Winchester mod 70 using 168 tsx's and 65 grains of RE17, win brass, Fed lg rifle mag match primers I am getting right at 3100 fps chrony'd in the 50 degree range.

I've had real good luck with it in terms of accuracy and consistency.

I went on my first elk hunt here in Nevada at the end of November. I dropped a 6x6 bull with one shot at 270 yards with that RL17/165 ttsx load, bullet was recovered and weighed 146 gr because one of the petals broke off.

That's phenomenal! I'm going to buy a can of rl17 and try a barnes bullet. I've always shot accubonds, but everyone I've talked to has suggested I try a 165 ttsx. With speed and accuracy like that you can't go wrong. Thanks for the info!

Freddy,
Let me make sure I have this correct
Barnes 165 ttsx
66.5 gr rl17
what primers???
what casing do you prefer???

Here is a 168tsx I pulled from a 6x6 bull shot at 250 yards. It weighed 167 grain. I would probably load the tipped version now because of the bc difference but I have my dope for this rifle scope load combo down so well I don't want to fix what is not broke.

I was using Cci large rifle magnum primers and winchster cases.