I have a 270 pre 64 model 70 featherweight, I am having trouble getting any loads to shoot better than 1.5 inches at 100 yards. I have tried several different bullets and powders. So far the best I got was 130 grain Sierra Prohunter with RL19.

Does anyone have a good pet load for a pre 64 they would share?

What type of groups should be expected for the pre 64's?

R-22 and H4831SC are by far the best 2 powders in ANY 270 IMO. Try them with a 130gr Accubond......

How is the crown on the barrel? Bedding?

As much as I hated to, I had the bedding worked on, I did not want it bedded, but the gunsmith sanded the stock in the barrel channel and it is not touching anywhere now. The crown is in great shape, it was my grandfathers gun (1957 new) and I would guess there is no more than 500 rounds through it. I tried 58 grains of RL22 with a 130 grain ballistic tip and they were all over the place. I got about a 1" group with Sierra prohunters and 55 grains of RL19. I have some 130 grain prohunters loaded with 4831sc I am going to try this weekend.

And is 1 1/2" an unreasonable group size for a rifle of that era? That just may be as good as that rifle will shoot.

Have you cleaned out the barrel really really well. My brother had a similar problem with a M70 almost exactly like yours and was able to tighten the groups significantly by cleaning out the copper. It took him about a week with brush and solvents but finally got her clean.

You might try 55 gr. IMR4350 or 55-56 gr. H4350 with a 130.

My 1953 M70 30-06 shoots most of the loads I've tried into 1.25-1.5" groups. No better, no worse. Perfectly fine for most all hunting applications......

I have a 1960 .30-06 Fwt. whose bedding was tweaked by an old gunsmith in Austin shortly after I purchased it in 1961. It consistently shot 150 and 165 grain Partitions into less than an inch. It has since been worked over and bedded in a really nice piece of walnut and still shoots about the same. I have a .270 Fwt. with the factory stock that was refinished and rebedded by Larry Caudill in Albuquerque (who also restocked the '06). It is now a genuine 3/4" rifle with 130 Partitions or Ballistic Tips over 59.0 grains of H4831sc.

I picked up a pre 64 .270 featherweight a few years ago that didn't shoot (3-4" groups). On a suggestion from a friend (BobinNH) I swabbed the bore with Sweets 7.62 and got patch after patch out with the blue color of dissolved copper. First group after the cleaning measured about 7/8". The load was 60gr of the now discontinued H450 under a 130 Nosler Part. Maybe its worth a try?

I have a pre 64 featherweight 270, which I havent shot for 20 years but I had trouble initially getting groups. I found that it favoured 150 gr bullets loaded hot. I settled on the old surplus H4831 for 150s and imr 4831 for 130s. It seems like your barrel is free floated. Some featherweihts like a pressure point on the forend. Just put a business card to try. Hope one of these works.

I'd look at what the other guys suggested - especially the bore. Make sure it's very clean with no copper fouling. Make sure the action screws are snug & tight. I removed the forearm pressure screw (that's what I call it anyway). Maybe glass bedding the action would help. For loads, I usually start with an inexpensive but quality bullet - ie, Sierra or Hornady in the bullet weight I want to use for hunting. My "go-to" load now for my pre-64, .270 Win. is 57 grs. of Rldr-22 and a 150 gr. Partition. It's 1 grain under book max., gives me 2930 fps and prints 3/4", 3 shot groups all day. I'm more than willing to bet that with a bit of work, that old rifle will easily become a consistant MOA rifle.
BTW, I seat my bullets to 0.010" off the lands as measured to the ogive. I just can't believe that rifle won't shoot. Keep us posted on your progress. Bear in Fairbanks

270: I remember that! Ya, worth a try for sure!Those pre 64's were frequently neglected as far as cleaning was concerned cause guys back then did not know what "clean" was;nor did they have the solvents we do today...

1 1/2" groups ain't too bad, really....but I have owned and shot so many pre 64 M70 270 FW's that I can't recall them all,and cannot remember a problem. I can say that each of the 4 I presently own will cut an inch, with ease, if I do my part.Sometimes they need some tweaking with the bedding or floating the barrel, but everyone that I have floated has shot very well,and groups, 3 shots,generally go under an inch.

RL22 and H4831 (both versions are good, I cannot tell the difference)are both great powders.

Usually if there is a problem, it is with the bedding or stock contact, but it seems the poster has taken care of those issues.I also assume the bases fit correctly and the scope is properly mounted,etc.

IME a pre 64 is easily as likely to shoot accurately as anything made today in a comparable price range, and they generally need about as much tweaking as anything else to get to shoot as well,sometimes a whole lot less.They will blow the socks off most New Haven Classics in the accuracy department,as they come IME, so their vintage has nothing to do with how your rifle shoots.

I would try checking runnout of the ammo because based on what we know from the poster,everyting else seems in order. I have "fixed" more than one 30/06 FW with a glass bed job,and by feeding it ammo with runnout of under .005.

Get a can of the foaming bore cleaner and clean the bbl. It will cut all the old copper(usually leaves a puddle of blue stuff as it runs out the bbl) Then clean as you normally would until you get a clean patch.
Most of the pre 64 win. guns were fitted to the stock inletting well from the factory and don't need much work there to shoot pretty well (unless someone altered it).
59 - 60 grs of H4831 under a 130gr bullet is a classic load for 270 Win. & has shot great in numerous 270s over the years for me.
Win. primers have always given me the best accuracy (even better than fed match primers)in plain old Winchester or Remington brass.
Sometimes a rifle will show a preference for a heavier weight 150gr bullet over the 130gr. Just drop the powder charge accordingly for the 150gr and stay with the H4831 to see what happens.
My next try for powder would be one one the 4350s, RL22 or IMR4831.
Good Luck,
Ted

Thanks to all for your help, I spent hours last night working on cleaning the barrel, I started with the foaming bore cleaner, then used Sweets 7.62 with a nylon brush, and followed up with Tiptons "Truely remarkable". The is not a lick of copper in the barrel. I am heading to the range this Saturday to see how she shoots. As mentioned, I just wasnt sure what types of groups to expect with this gun and wanted some feedback. I have a number of loads to try this weekend and will post the results. I am not at all disappointed with the accuracy, I just am trying to get the best load and accuracy for this gun.

I have heard many different opinions on cleaning, I clean my barrels after every 30 or 40 rounds, is this adequate or should it be cleaned more frequently?

Once you determine the accuracy that the rifle/ammo combo is capable of producing, clean the rifle when the accuracy decreases from that known level. Most people over-clean the barrels.

I have owned 3 pre-64's.

One was a pre-war .270. After a GOOD cleaning it shot consistent 3/4" groups.

The other two were almost as good.

Modern bullets usually shoot very good in vintage M-70's.

49 gr. of 4064 and a 130 gr. bullet is another good combination.

Bob

centralpahunter:
Not to hijack this thread but I would seriously suggest that you start with the "Accurate" load listed in the Sierra reloading manual. I would use Sierra bullets and the powder charge recommended. Also, I would load 3 cartridges each in increments of about 1 grain at a time. This is just to try & determine how accurate your rifle can shoot. I wouldn't start out with several loads using different powders. Just my thoughts. Bear in Fairbanks

Mine likes that same bullet over 55 grains of IMR 4350, touched off by a Remington 9 1/2 primer in R-P brass. Three shot groups average around 1.25 inches, but your results may vary.

In reality, expecting MOA accuracy from a rifle that light is a little like expecting "road-hugging" stability from a Jeep, and under conditions where the Featherweight makes sense, that extra 1/4 MOA is generally the least of my worries. If I do my part, the rifle is still plenty accurate for putting the bullet into the vitals of deer-sized game within the range I have any business shooting at.

Went to the range this past weekend after getting all of the copper out of the barrel. I tried several different loads and bullets. I ended up getting very good results from 54 grains of reloader 19 with a 130 grain Sierra. I shot a 5 shot group with this combo and it was just inside an inch at 100 yards. All of the loads I tried with the Sierra's was inside 1.5 inches with different powders. The other bullet I tried was a 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, my gun just doesnt like them, I didnt get a group inside of 2 inches with the Noslers. It doesnt make sense but I am going to stick with the Sierra's.

Well whaddaya know!!! I just knew that "hunk o' junk" would shoot. Congrats and you might play a bit with seating depth or even another powder for the Ballistic Tips. Anyway, congrats.
Bear in Fairbanks

My post-64 Ranger .270 likes 130 ballistic tips (or Accubonds) over 60.0 gr of H4831SC. 3 shots in 7/8" at 100 yards with the bal tips.
I just got this rifle last Friday, and I have not yet shot Accubonds in it.

I know the IMR powders are not real popular, but I have had great luck (at or just under MOA) with 130gr Partitions 57 grains of IMR-4831 and a 210 Fed primer in around 6 different 270's including a Pre-64 FWT.

If you get a chance, try RL22 with the Pro Hunters.

I just went to the range again last night and had even better results with 47.0 grains of IMR 4064, 130 grain pro hunters and shot a nice tiny cloverleaf, all four shots were touching.

Nice. I've not tried that powder but have had excellent results with it in other rifles. I know a guy who had had excellent results with an '06. Seems to be a very versatile powder.

6.5:Before RL 22 came on the scene,and after stocks of the old H4831 dried up,IMR4831 was THE powder in the 270Win.Shot piles of it and used the stuff in several 270's.It is still an excellent choice but not many talk about it these days.I have a 7 Mag that loves 66 gr with the 140 AB for over 3200 fps.Good stuff.

centralpa:Glad your rifle shoots now!If you want a load with the 130 partition,sneak up on 59-60 gr of RL22 and the 130 Partition.IME if the rifle shoots a Sierra, it'll shoot the partition.But sometimes the Partition needs a hotter boot in the ass to upset the base in to the grooves of the rifling (obturate).Try it; it may shoot well.

60-RL22-130 Partition has been one of my standard 270 loads for years.

Bob, here is a bullet question. I have never used the partitions, I was told that they are not the bullet of choice for PA sized whitetails. I know they are the bullet of choice for larger sized game, but do they expand enough for whitetails?

Centralpahunter this is not directed at you personally, you just brought up the subject.

How long will it take before folks realize that the front end of the Partition, at least in the small to middle sizes, is deliberately made soft?

No experience here with the 270/130 but I use a 308/150 NP for deer with excellent results. I use a mild but accurate load of 3031 to get to 300 Savage speeds. Very little meat damage with quick stops.

central:Mathman is correct in his post below.They are designed with a "soft" front end,and expand well at both short and long range.Jackets vary in thickness,hence toughness, between Partitions in different weights and calibers,but 130 gr Partitions are suitable for a very wide range of game IMO,and work as well as anything else on deer of all sizes.

I understand where some guys come from when it comes to whitetails because Partitions expand very quickly upon impact and at close range will blow off the front section back to the partition,which presents a small frontal area and small exit,leading to the erroneous conclusion that they "did not expand".This is not true as everything between the holes is generally a train wreck.

I have shot coyotes with them and seen very extensive damage I have also shot scores of pronghorn bucks and does, deer of all sizes from smallish ones to very large bucks at all sorts of distances,from 20 feet to as far as 400 yards, with the 270 130,and 284 140,and 100 gr 25 caliber,and they have been very reliable.I have even shot woodchucks with them

That said,are they necessary for deer? No,standard cup cores work pretty good on deer,too,but IME no better than a Partition; but I like one load for my rifle that will cover a pretty wide range of game,and Partitions do that.I would prefer them over other stuff when ranges can be either short or long;in brush and open. I use them here in New England as well as the west,and were I coming to Pennsylvania to hunt, I know what I'd use.

If you whack a deer in the chest with a Partition and don't kill him, ya didn't whack him in the chest

I brought it up because I thought you were having trouble getting them to shoot,but may have misread your post.If so, sorry about that.

I've shot 3 deer with 165 partitions out of a .30-06 here in PA. None of them took another step. I've shot a lot of deer with cup'n'core bullets, but very few dropped like the ones shot with partitions. 150 Accubonds do about the same thing.

Rich: I'm at a complete loss for explanation when someone has a problem with the terminal performance of a Nosler Partition on a deer,and similar stuff.Some of the stuff I hear and read is like Grimms Fairy Tales.....

Bob,
I bought a box of the 130 partitions and tried your load, not bad at all. I got .75 inches with two different 4 shot groups, I think I may stick with this load, I also bought a box for my daughters 243 in 100 grains, it shot .25 inches with two different 4 shot groups. I may give them a try in my oldest daughters 25-06, I am just not sure what grain to get them in for that caliber.
Thanks for the info., needless to say, I am extremely pleased with the results in the 270.

central: 3/4" from 1.5 inches is a good improvement,I think.

I assume you tried the RL22 load,and I'm glad it worked for you. It usually does in a good many 270's.H4831 works very well also,and sometimes ( rarely) a rifle will show a slight preference for one over the other.

I think you're done with the 270; you can use the Sierra for practice, woodchucks,etc,and the Nosler for hunting.You can try shaving groups some more, but not much will be gained.Try the load at 300 yards, if you can. I think you'll like it there,too.

For the last 50 years I been filling a case with some old surplus 4831, about 62 grs, the old Jack O'Conner load and getting a tad over 3200 FPS in my long tubed M-70 pre 64 std. wt. just like Jack did.

You can't find that powder anymore and I bought a 150 lbs SS keg way back when. Today I would use 59 grs. of IMR-4831 or perhaps the short core stuff, it should work great..The 270 and 4831 are kinda like bread and butter..

My favorite bullets have always been the Nosler 130 gr. but about any bullet works well as the caliber has been around long enough that they pretty much have them perfected to its obtainalble velocities..About the only bullet I didn't like was those damn Remington bronze points, they either slammed them to the ground or they ran plumb off!!

Ray: I've seen those bronze points work....nasty! Never saw one pencil but have not seen many used either.

I have a sneaky hunch that IMR7828 MAY be more along the lines of the old 4831 you have and might work well in the 270,but have never messed too much with it to find out

Godamighty, another guy with a pre-64 in 270....BobinNH was a big help to me early on with mine (it was posessed by an Elmer Keith deamon or something). Mine will be shooting a 130 grain Partition this fall behind 58.5 - 60.0 grains of H4831 SC.

Bob, you mentioned 60 grains of RL-22 under a 130 gr NP. I have not checked the Nosler manual yet, but is that a hot load??? As you meniton that being your go-to load, I may want to see if mine likes this....as you know, she's a 1949 vintage.

Have a great day

Godogs: I disclaim all liability Usual caveats apply,ie work up to it,watch the chronograph and be careful.Yes it might be warmish in some rifles,but I have been using it for....golly well over a decade now without mishap and with consistent results and the load gives 3050 to 3100 with the Nosler Partition and the Sierra 130 from several different rifles, which have all been M70 pre 64 barrels, Krieger barrels, or Classics.

This is not to say it might not be warmish from a different barrel.

With the 130 Swift Aframe I backed off to 59 grains for the same velocity,because 60 gr with the Aframe gave a bit over 3150. I throttled back to be safe,and it worked out well.

I started working with RL25 in the 270 awhile back and worked up to the Barnes manual max with the 130 XLC (blue bullet)which gave right on 3200 from a 22" barrel.But I just have not had time to further experiment with RL25.I have long held the belief that the old 4831 that Ray uses is slower than our current 4831,and that the 270 can benefit from careful experimentation with slower powders than even H4831 or RL22,but just have not had the time to really go there.

Bob,
I shot the 270 again with H4831sc and RL22, I used 59 grains in each with the 130 partitions, I got 4 shots that I covered with a dime with both loads. They shot nearly identical, I couldnt be any happier.

I shot 4 shots from my youngest daughters 243 with 41.5 grains of IMR4350 and almost had one hole, I couldnt believe it.

Thanks to everyone for your help, it is so nice to have this type of resource, I am no expert and it is nice to have people help out.

central: How could this happen? Everyone knows that you can't get that kind of accuracy from an old rifle like that

Glad it worked out well for you.Good shooting,you done good!

Thanx Bob....RL-22 was one powder I never tried in this round. I generally stick with IMR-4350 or 4831. Gonna see what happens and hope to exorcise those demons this fall with it....right after I get back from VPR. All usual and customary precautions will be adhered to.

Take it easy,

Hank

I agree with Bob on this, at least from what I have seen with Magpro. This powder is a bit slower than 4831/22, but very dense. I have gotten 3200 fps with this powder in a couple different .270s using the book load from Accurate. I wonder if Ramshot Magnum or IMR-7828SC may give similar results.

Lou

It was nice for a change to read a totally civil thread on a top cartridge! A lot of good useful information for a problem that was solved in the end.
Just love that .270!

Bigwhoop: I can stir up the thread a bit if you ever get tired of "nice" and kumbiyah!
If everyone agreed on everything then whats that gonna lead to?
You are right though, in that the 270 Winchester after 86 years is still one extremely versatile and effective Game cartridge!
I have several of them and enjoy them all!
Its just downright tough to ask anything reasonable of the 270 Winchester that it won't accomplish handily.
Atkinson is right just load up some 130 grain Nosler's (Partitions or Ballistic Tips!) and start harvesting game!
I have one particular pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in caliber 270 Winchester that has killed so much game that I retired it from duty about 9 years ago!
I swore I would never harvest another Mule Deer, Elk, Black Bear, Whitetailed Deer, Antelope, Mt. Goat or Blacktailed Deer with it again - the only thing that would prompt it to come out of my gun vault (retirement) is if I were to be drawn for a Bighorn Sheep tag!
This Rifle was made over 59 years ago now and it was still shooting groups (5 shots at 100 yards) well under 1" when it was "retired".
Long live the 270 Winchester AND the pre-64 Winchester Model 70.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Lou: Magpro was one of the powders I was thinking of....along with RL 25,7828(which I suspect is pretty close to the old 4831.

Fred Barker,who writes for Precision Shooter,did a great article a few years back on the 270 with a PacNor barrel,and used the newer MRP II for some impressive velocities. The central theme of the article was along the lines that the 270 benefitted greatly from the newer,slower powders.One of the better 270 articles I've seen in a long time.

It may be old ground to cover but I wish one of the writers like JB would jump on this topic with some pressure test equipment and do an article.When you nudge a 270 Win up around 3200 with a 130,it starts to look like a WSM or a 7 mag

...and with a 22" barrel to boot!

What ever you do don't try that 3200 with a 130 out of 22" development in Nosler brass. If the primers stay in I guarantee the next ones won't.

mathman:I am fat,dumb and happy at 3100,have been there for years and am unlikely to leave.I pass along the info for those more ambitious than I am.I'm really a bit past the experimental stage now

Great info I have been following this along. I will be trying some 130 grain partitions at 60 and do not have a chrono what do you think they will be running in a 22 inch barrel with H4831? The nolser book stops at 59 grains? Also this is a compressed load I mean that is a pretty full case? I have worked up to this 59 grain shot pretty well but figured I would try some at 60 as well.

thanks

ehunter: This can vary a lot between various barrels but I would say 60 H4831 will be in the 2980-3000 fps range;at least that is what I have gotten in a good many 270's,including Rugers, M70's,both pre 64's and Classics.Some barrels give more than that.

Thanks I will get a chance to run it though a chrony tomorrow a buddy just bought one and we will try it out. I was thinking that it might be close to 2900 to 3000 range. Bob I am going with those partitions they are shooting very well.

Just for reference, my Kimber Montana (24")runs a 130gr Partition at 3025fps with 60gr. H4831SC. A '55 Model 70 Fwt.
with a 22" original barrel runs the same load to 2925fps. A Post '64 Fwt. XTR goes 2935fps with the same load. A Ruger Ultralite I used to have (20") measured 2905fps with the same load.
Just a rough idea as each barrel will be different.

bigwhoop:Sounds about right.

ehunter:Seems like the rifle likes the Partition. Boringly consistent, no brainer load and bullet :)Now just go kill stuff.

Thanks guys hopefully I can report back to tomorrow with my results. Yep Bob I am liking those partitions and this fall I am hoping to put them to the test for me its not difficult if the deer or elk go down its a winner.

I might add that both the 130 and 150 shoot well.

That, too is pretty normal

Well my 3 shot average was about 3097 I don't know if that seems hot that is with a load of 130 partitions of 60 H4831 with W primers? No pressure issues.


Although the 150 grain accubonds with 58 grain was running about close to 3000?

I'm going to try some Ramshot Hunter powder for my next .270 winchester loads using the 130 gr Core Lokts bullets. Had excellent results using their powders to load pistol cartridges.

My 150gr. Partition load is 57.0 gr H4831SC with a Fed 210M or whatever is handy. Speed in the Kimber is 2800fps and I get 1/2" 3 shot groups at 100 yds. if I do my part. I have done this a number of times with targets saved. This load brought home the cow elk last year.
Also, 56gr. H4831SC for a 160gr. Partition is equally nice at 100 and 200 yards. Chrony says 2740fps. The 160gr may get the call this year for elk but the 7x57 is just begging to get out there too!

4 shots covered with a dime, now thats good shooting, probably a new world record with a .270...

The .270 was built around 4831, Jack told me so! but that was before RL-22.

I still use the old Army surplus 4831..I bought an Army Surplus 150 lb. stainless steel canister within a thick wood crate some 30 years ago. I still have maybe 30 pounds left and its as good as ever..The crate and SS canister is probably worth big bucks today???????? I use it to pack oats into elk camp!

Thanks guys for the info you guys are great source of information I am liking my 270 more and more. Now I wish it were hunting season grin!!