The supply of RL 15 is drying up in BC (Political reasons) and I would like to get some recommendations for a substitute powder for my 35 Whelen. I have been using the 250 gr Hornady's with a MV of 2570 fps. It seems that the IMR manufactured powders will be the only ones available for awhile.
Thanks
Mike D.

Some folks have good results with the IMR 4320 in that chambering... It's one of IMR's less popular powders, but if you can find it I would give it a try.

If not, just go with IMR 4064--it'll do any job that RL15 can...


Dan

IMR 4064 or Hodgdon Varget......

I have found that Varget and RL-15 are very close, almost identical in performance and weights used. I've even read this in various places. Try it if you can get it, I think youll like it.

Ditto toddbartell. I see very little difference in the three. Also N140 works well.

N150 or Big Game from Ramshot.

Mike D,

When Hercules brought out Re-15, Re-19, and Re-22; I specifically remember that Layne Simpson stated in print that they were the same as Norma 202, N-204, and N-MRP, respectively. (I have the article in Handloader magazine)

Now, there has always been some debate as to the truth to that statement. However, in most burning rate charts that I have seen, they fall at very near the same place.

So if, you are losing out on Re-15, and you can find the Norma powders available, I would think that this may be an option worth pursuing.

I do know that I have used identical charge weights of Re-15 and Vihtouri N-135 with identical indications of pressure and less than 20 f.p.s. variation in velocity in the 9.3x62. So I would also think that Viht N-135 would be a viable alternative, as well. Hope this helps...the9.3guy

I agree with those who suggested Varget. It is fully as versatile as RL-15. However, you stated IMR powders which Varget is not. So.......IMR 4320 if you can find it, or IMR 4895 which is a powder that works surprisingly well in almost anything.

JimF

I'd think IMR 4350 should do the trick as well for that bullet weight.

Mike,
H4895 is a good all around powder for just about anything.
Might not be quite as clean burning as Rel15 but shoots very good and is consistant from lot to lot for years. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
dave

Mike,

I'm curious -- what political issues are causing one particular powder to dry up, while leaving substitutes available?

John

I live in B.C. and have not seen any evidence of RL 15 disappearing in the marketplace. Might be good to check the validity of your source of info. Regards, eagleye.

I agree with dave7mm.

I had a good load with Rl-15 in a certain rifle, but H4895 beat it out in velocity and accuracy.

That's just one rifle though...

Eagleye
I've been looking for Reloder 15 for approx. five months now on the Lower Mainland. I keep getting the same response that it is back ordered with no cofirmed date of arrival. If you have a source for it could you let me know.

John
I sent an email off to Alliant to see what they have to say about the availability and distribution of the powders to Canada.
The statement (Political reasons) was made by an employee of a local gun shop who was showing me three pages of back orders for powder.
Thanks
Mike D.

Miked2104: Do a search for www.bcredneck.com in the Chilliwack area. Dave Friesen is the owner and he lists in his on line catalogue. Good guy to deal with too.

Stocker
Thanks for the info, I'll try him tomorrow.
Mike D.

Ah. Remember, RL-15 is now the standard US military rifle propellant. And there's a war on.

I haven't bought any powder in at least 6 months. I get it at gun shows -- cheaper than paying hazmat fees for shipping.

John

I had very good results with IMR-4895 and 4064 with 225 grain bullets. IMR-4350 had great accuracy with 250's but velocity was very low. There just wasn't enough room in there.

Stocker
Dave responded very quickly, but he is out of Reloder 15 too.

I'm looking forward to trying the suggested powders.
Thanks
Mike D.

9_3guy & others,
Which issue of Handloader magazine did this article appear in? Frankly, I find it hard to believe that RL-19 is an equivalent of N204 and before using it, I would want more proof than an internet conversation between two people. In fact, I think some further confirmation is in order for RL-15 = Norma 202 and RL-22 = N-MRP. Can any of you further substantiate / support these statements?

Flower Child

P.S. I'm not trying to start trouble. I REALLY want to know. No offence meant to anyone, okay?

Flower Child
I believe they were referring to the relative burning rates of the powders, not a grain for grain substitution.
Mike D.

To the original question, either Accurate or IMR 4064 will do pretty much anything RL15 will do. One advantage to RL15 is, since adoption as the military powder of choice, it's supposed to be quite temp stable.



FC - There was a thread over at AR on a similar subject: http://www.accuratereloading.com/ub...mp;amp;sb=5&o=93&fpart=1



The poster went on to state that both Norma and Alliant's powders are made by Bofors in Sweden, then packaged at different facilities in either Norma or Alliant containers. This actually is not an uncommon occurrence. As one example, Primex makes H414 for Hodgdon, which, in a W-W can, is W760; likewise for H110/W296.



R-WEST

Mike; Just noted that there was still a couple of tins on store shelves here in PG last week. Whether there will be more coming in, I cannot say, but local store said that on the last order about 6 weeks ago, RL-15 came in with the rest. Perhaps it will dry up here too.

As to the similarity of N-202/RL15; N204/RL19; and N-MRP/RL22, I have examined these combinations very thoroughly with weight vs volume, relative burn rates and physical appearance under good stong magnification. They are very similar if not the same, in burning rates, but seem slightly different in the lots I have here. The physical characteristics are somewhat different. In the samples that I have, Both N202 and N204 are finer grained than either RL15 or 19. MRP and RL 22 look quite similar under the glass, but a lot more RL22 kernels are perforated in my samples than is MRP. Also, MRP is denser [Higher specific gravity] in the samples I have. This allows one to get more of it in a given case than RL22. However, I would defer to the fellow in Umea, Sweden, as long as he knows what he is talking about. I do know, from talking to a fellow closely tied in to powder manufacture [also from Sweden] that Norma 205/Norma MRP and Bofors RP-5 are basically identical powders. In any case, it emphasizes the need to work up any load carefully whenever changing powders OR lot numbers. As for W760/H414, I do believe them to be identical powders. Exposed to the same criteria: appearance under magnification, density and actual use in different chamberings, I have been unable to see any difference in these two powders that would be greater than lot-to-lot variances. Regards, Eagleye

Flower,


I knew I shouldn't have post that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just knew someone would call me on it. Now you have done so! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I am going to work right now. But when I get home tonite, I will endeavor to look it up. Whoa! I just took a long shot! It is in Layne Simpson's column: Benchtopics in Handloader #133 on page 17 (continued on pg. 69) He states: "that the only difference is the container and the price" However, he does add the caveat that it should not be used in a grain-for-grain substutition. But new loads should be worked up like any new powder. Hope this helps...the9.3Guy

I've used Varget and IMR 4064 in cartridges that like RL15. H4895 works well also. I live in BC also, and have seen no shortage of RL15, it seems the powder shipments are slow into Canada PERIOD. I don't think brand or powder type has anything to do with it. Give Higginson Powder a call, and order a 5lber, that should solve your problems.

280_ACKLEY

Actually, I too have heard a rumour that the distributor for Alliant powders in Canada has dropped out of the picture. The person who would know the definitive answer on this topic is Andrew Higginson of Higginson Powders, by far the biggest powder importer in Canada. I recall that he was trying to import the Alliant line himself, but something seems to have held that up. You might want to give him a call at 613-632-9300.

Personally, I think that Varget and IMR 4320, as well as Vihtavuori N540 and N550 would all be pretty comparable powders to Reloder 15. These other four powders are quite readily available, though the Vihtavuori powders are very expensive.

9_3Guy,
Thanks for your timely response. Armed with these facts, I believe that I will try a little RL-15 myself and I want you to know I really do appreciate your effort to locate your source of info so quickly as I was just about to place a powder order myself. Truly, it was awful nice of you to do that for me. Thanks.

Flower_Child