Or does one just feel better paying more? I've loaded a bit with Norma, and more with Rem, Fed, and Win. They all seemed to work fine. I'm not set up to measure necks, and haven't bothered to do a lot of weighing but am wondering if the premium price brings tighter tolerances, or... just a lighter wallet?

anyone do a lot of measuring, or have other insights?

thanks, I'm wondering if it's worth the bigger ante

I don't use Norma, but the Lapua brass has been superior to the common makes overall in the types I've tried.

Whether it's worth it depends on what you want to achieve, and whether the rifle and your loading techniques are up to taking advantage of better brass.

I like Norma brass. I use it when possible.

I've been useing the same Norma 30-06 brass for my 30-06 AI hunting rounds for 20 years. Of course when you don't shoot but 3 sighters and 1 or 2 kill shots per year, a box of 100 goes a long way. It's been really good brass and is outlasting the W-W Super Speed brass for number of reloads that I use for everyday shooting in the AI.

Norma brass is one of the best for concentricity and consistency. They are a little soft and heavy, but still very good.

I like Norma the best because they make a wide variety of cartridge brass. Lapua is the best, but can be a PITA to locate at times in what few cartridges they make.

RWS, in one cartridge I've used, sucks!

My experiences with Norma have not been that good. I have tried their brass in .223 and .22-250 (100 each). In both uses, the cases seem overly soft and their longevity was very short compared to other brass.

Very consistent, found it to be awfully soft.......


Casey

Only Norma brass I've used is from the WBY headstamp for my 300.Seemed ok but really haven't worked with it much.

"I've loaded a bit with Norma, and more with Rem, Fed, and Win. They all seemed to work fine."

So there/s your answer.

I'm working with Norma brass for 222, 223, and 6BR
As new, there is NOTHING required in the way of brass prep; just prime it, charge with powder, and seat a bullet.
There were NO dented necks, like you get with new Rem and Win brass. And, in measuring the ID of the case necks, every one was .0025 less that bullet OD, making for a perfect interference fit for the bullet.
I weigh all of my cases, and found that Norma brass is as close in wieght as I want for benchrest accuracy. I have zero problems with using Norma brass, and will buy if for any caliber/chambering I can in the future.
I had wanted to test some Lapua brass for 223's, but the supplier was out of it when I tried ordering it. I do want to try some however; too many guys have great things to say about it to pass on buying some.
I'm not going to debate to soft brass issue with Norma brass. For me, it's a non-problem. I shoot some amazing groups with Norma loads, and that's all I'm looking for from brass.
I do know that when I weight sort Win and Rem brass, I get a whole lot of weight variation, far too much for my liking.

In response to that, I'll clarify my original post... sometimes finding a great load has been easier than others, but I don't have a large enough sample size of comparing loads to know if brass choice has contributed. If the higher price of Norma brass makes it easier for me to find a highly accurate load, and overall adds to accuracy, I'll pay for it. I'm not a benchrest shooter but like to do what I can to eliminate rifle accuracy from the list of variables when I'm hunting.

Interesting there seem to be conflicting views in the posts thus far on longevity, but a general impression of good consistency. The comments on softness are interesting, I thought I noticed this when trimming it, why is softness a problem?

Thanks for the feedback.

Quality brass is only one part of an equation. The distance between bullet ogive and the lands set improperly, bullet not seated concentrically, too much neck tension are just few factors which can negate an advantage of top quality brass. Not to mention, geometry of the chamber, quality of the lands and a quality of a bullet. That is to say, until all these factors are not taken into consideration, the brass itself would make little difference in terms of accuracy, IMHO.

+1 on the Lapua; I also like Lake City in the calibers it's available.

MM

Most brass is about the same as far as I'm concerned..I personaly like RWS best, Lapua next, WW next followed by Remington or Norma..cost is an issue for my choice, so if I get a deal thats the stuff I buy...

Brass and powder charge weight accuracy are the least contributers to accuracy btw..the bullet and barrel are the most important aspect to accuracy..I have seen too many bench resters toss loads together at the bench without much concern to anything, because their guns are not picky and they have excellent hand picked and tried barrels. All the rest is gobblygoop apparantly..

"The comments on softness are interesting, I thought I noticed this when trimming it, why is softness a problem?"

Like anything else, trade offs apply; getting one end longer makes the other end shorter. Soft brass can't take quite the high pressures harder brass can take but soft brass lasts longer if pressures are held to normal limits. So ... what rings your bell matters.

Ok, here's your semi-definitive answer......

Our sporter rifles aren't accurate enough to tell the differences in our loads the same way the hyper-accurate BR rifles are. So some of the things BR shooters obsess about don't mean much to a sporter rifle.

Bullet-neck alignment (concentricity) is an important factor in accuracy in both BR and our hunting rifles--just to a different degree.

Lapua, Norma, RWS brass tends to have more consistent neck wall thickness ( I think Lapua is the best of the three) and the neck wall thickness can be very important to bullet-neck alignment. Our brass sizing techniques are also very important to bullet-neck alignment.

Neck wall consistency can vary from case to case, and also from one side of the neck to the other.

So.....do I buy the expensive brass?--rarely. I buy WW brass, and either take the time to measure each peice in three places around the neck with a tubing mic after sizing new brass, and/or put the brass on my concentricity gauge and measure runout at the neck. From experience I may toss a peice if I think it's hopeless, or otherwise I set aside in a different batch. Or, I may do nothing but size that lot of brass and shoot it once. THEN, I check neck wall thickness and neck runout of the brass, cull what looks hopeless, set aside peices that are outside my paramenters, load it the brass that is good, and check the loaded round on my concentricity gauge at the bullet for runout.

I've found that even with custom barrels in hunting rifles, the cost of premium brass doesn't even begin to pencil out, plus Lapua brass is impossible/difficult to find for many popular big game cartridges.

Buy a concentricity gauge--you pay for it once and it can be a bigger aid in making accurate ammo than expensive brass--and you only have to buy the gauge once--it'll pay for itself.


Casey

Softness translates into shorter case life and lots of stretch.



Casey

When you hold the thickness variation to at most .001" all the way around the neck and the reject rate goes up the initially cheaper brass that makes the cut often ends up as expensive per piece as Lapua. Or so I've found with 223 and 308.

BTW, some of the best necks I've ever measured came from a box of basic Rem core lock 243 factory ammo. You never know till you check.

[quote=mathmanWhen you hold the thickness variation to at most .001" all the way around the neck and the reject rate goes up the initially cheaper brass that makes the cut often ends up as expensive per piece as Lapua. Or so I've found with 223 and 308.
[/quote]

Bingo!!!!

True, which is why I use WW.

Federal on the other hand.........doesn't matter how cheaply you buy it.......



Casey

"(Brass) Softness translates into shorter case life and lots of stretch."

Sounds good, but not really.

Excessive stretch comes from how the reloader fits his cases to his chamber. That is determined both by how well he adjusts his sizers AND how well his sizers match his chambers.

"Soft" cases are a matter of very small alloy difference and it's not a massive difference at all. "Soft" cases tend to seal better and are usually slightly thicker in the head/web so they can handle normal standard SAAMI pressures as well as "hard" cases.

Thus, IF a reloader is getting short case life he is incorrectly resizing OR over-loading OR both. That's not the case's fault.

Norma makes good cases.

Not necessarily.

I've had the primer pockets of FC 223 brass rendered loose by firing the factory load, and the chrono was telling me that unless Federal did a poor job of choosing the powder the rounds weren't overloaded.

+1 on that. When I start getting neck splits and enlarged primer pockets after just a couple of uses with a load that permits numerous reloads in other brands of brass (more than one), it means something is lacking in the Norma brass. And, FWIW, I didn't change my reloading procedures just for the Norma brass.

It could be that the brass is heavier and has less capacity (which Norma usually does).

If you mean you didn't change your reloading procedures (meaning the powder charge itself), that's just silly......

If you did, then I wouldn't like it either. How many carts have you used Norma brass in, by chance?

I only have experience with Norma 30-06 brass.

The brass is consistent to about .5 gr in weight.

It also has the lightest weight, and highest volume compared to milsurp, IMI, Rem, and Win.

I have 100 pieces of it that I bought in 2000 when I had my custom heavy precision 30-06 built. I've been reloading it with a Lee Collet Die, sizing just the neck. These cases have been reloaded about 40 times. That's right, I've put over 4000 rounds through the same 100 pieces of brass. I keep waiting for a failure in the neck, or primer pocket, but not yet.

Some would suggest I load my ammo to, or beyond, redline. I don't really, my 30-06 load calcs around 58-60K lbs-psi. I'm just optimizing use of the available volume, and moly'ing the projos.

Anyway, that's what I know about Norma brass.

Anything you KNOW, is not because of guessing or a one time affair....

I have run Norma in 204, 222 Mag, 220 Swift, 6 PPC, 30/06, 7 Bee, 300 Bee, 416 Rigby, 357 Mag and 44 Mag.

Some runs heavier, some lighter and the brass is overall "softer", but I've never had pocket issues or neck splits.

The fact than Weatherby factory loads are by Norma and generally loaded to full potential leaves my head scratching to any issues with it.

FWIW I have some old WW "Super X" and "Super Speed" 338's that are a lot lighter than present manufacture, so any issues with brass and manufacturers is not a total sum deal.

Lots and weights do vary.

I defined the width of my lane very concisely.

No guesswork involved.

You always do.

As I posted, I tried 100 .223 cases and 100 22-250 cases. Of course I had to change the powder charge. That doesn't mean I changed procedures. From reading your post, I doubt that you can take anyone to school about reloading nor call them silly.

Just find it odd you're the only Norma brass user with loose pockets and split necks "longetivity was very short compared to other brass".


From reading your post Norma has only made 200 cases in two cartridges, weight variation sucked and runout was worse than R-P/WW or Fed?

You're suspicions on my abilities are totally correct....

Carry on.

I run it in my .257 Weatherby... as MontanaMarine stated it has the highest volume I need 80gr of Ramshot Mag to make it perk but have no issues with quality

I found Norma to be too soft, far prefer Lapua and RWS

yes it is . (you get what you pay for)