Unless it proves really inaccurate, I think I've settled on trying out the 190 Hornady BTSP for a deer/elk combo load for a friend.

Looking at the books, it seems mostly the top velocities are from powders in the 4350 - Rl 19 range. Any recommendations for top accuracy with good velocity?

I have nearly ever powder from the 4350s up to the BMG powders and a few things in the faster burn rate range, but I'd rather not try them all.

Also, any opinions on seating depth? These bullets have a crimp groove and are pretty long for a .30 cal. I've never messed with this gun before, so I don't know if she has any special preferences for seating depth in general.

Gonna just use standard primers, but if you think mags are appropriate with your powder preferences, I'll hear you out.

Thanks

IMR4350, and seated to the crimp grove is just fine.

55-56gr RL17 and about .030 off the lands.....

Near max loads of Ramshot Hunter is showing promise in my 30/06. I may soon be putting my .375 H&H on the market, so I too am considering that 190 Hornady as an all-around '06 load.

What kind of velocities are you getting using Ramshot Hunter?

I bet those 190's penetrate deeeep thru the venison. Should be a good elk shoulder breaker.

I had one of those sail through the shoulders of a 5 pt. bull a few years ago. Bull ran about 40 yards and went down. IIRC, I used H4831 for the load. Damn fine bullets, as are all the Hornady's I've used. They often make me wonder why I try anything else.

Good luck,
Steve

Just eyeballing the bullets next to some -06 cases, it looks like seating the bullet at the crimp groove perfectly puts the base of the bullet at the shoulder. So I'm not gonna fiddle with seating depth.

On the other hand, I could go through a lot bullets just in powder testing. I settled on the following 9 powders:
RL 17, H4350, Hunter, H100V, N160, RL 19, AA3100, H4831 and RL 22. Any powder combo that doesn't get me at least 2600 fps with pressure I'm comfortable with won't make it to accuracy testing. Everything I've read so far makes me think 2600-2700 fps is doable without a breaking a real sweat.

I've loaded them to 2700 in my -06 using IMR4831. The next time i load this bullet I intend to try Ramshot hunter.

Expat

I've been wanting to try IMR 4831 for this, and in my .264. But with 25 or so different powders on hand, including H4831, it's hard to justify yet another pound of something in the same range. Although, in reality, what's another overlapping powder?

The Hornady manual says IMR4831 will push the 190 to 2700 fps.

It just happens that this was my favorite powder for the 190 Hornady in my 30-06 Winchester 670. Maximum charges gave great accuracy. It would shoot MOA out to 300 yds.

COAL? I set the seater die to maximum length allowed by the magazine. The bullet did not hit the lands, so that is the way I left it. The cannalure was a bit outside the mouth of the case.

cannelure! that's the word I was struggling with. Ah hell, why not pick up another pound of powder?

RL19....trust me.

I trust you, it's on the menu

I haven't ran any of the 190gr Hornadys, but I've shot a few thousand 190 Sierra Matchkings through my 30-06.

No problem reaching 2900 fps with RL22, and a 26.5" bbl. QL calc'd pressure under 60K lbs-psi, and all physical indicators were good.

I've been running 190 Hornadys in my 03-A3 for about 35 years. The old, 2-groove barrel has a longer-than-normal (worn out) throat, by about 1/10 inch, so I can seat bullets out and not get much pressure. 55 grains of IMR-4350 in G.I. cases and CCI primers chronographed just over 2,690 in that rifle, when I tested it about 25 years ago.

In Model 70 Winchesters, with a SAAMI chambers and throats, I seat the bullet to the cannelure and use 56 grains of IMR-4831 with Winchester cases and F-215 primers and that load chronographs, depending on the rifle, between 2,650 and 2,680 fps.

For some reason I've never reached those velocities with my lot of RL-19. On a grain-for-grain basis, RL-19 chronographs about 100 fps slower than IMR-4831, but that could just be my particular lot of powder.

Well, with just some quick shooting in the yard with H4350 to see where this rifle stands in comparison to the published data, I went up to 55 grains and was just a hair over 2700 fps. This is in a custom Vz-24, with a 23" barrel.
So apparrently 2700 won't be out of the question at all. I'm not sure how hard I wanna push on the throttle with this gun, but I'm liking her potential.

This has just been my experience but day in and day out 2700 is pretty much the top end of for the safe and sane..<g>

Dober

........in a 308 Win.........(grin)

I stopped at 57.0gr of Ramshot Hunter. This got me about 2,740fps. This is out of a Ruger #1 with a 26" barrel. Check with Ramshot, but I think their recipies call for at least another grain as max. I'm happy with 2,700 though. That little football looking projectile should fly fine at that speed.

Ok, I decided not to shoot at the range today, just in the field at home. We don't have a bench at home, so I just shot prone, and the gun only has an old Weaver K4, plus the target had two MOA black squares. So suffice to say accuracy wasn't stellar, and with only 1 3 shot group each, it's hard to say which were lucky groups, which were fliers and which were unlucky groups. Either way, it was all over the board accuracy wise. Typical groups were around 2.5 inches, with two groups MOA or better and two groups closer to 5". Oh yeah, and it's pretty windy today.

More pertinent to other folks may be the velocities. I did not push these loads very hard as I'm having a hard time reading pressure in the gun. But bolt lift was easy on every one of these. Also, I was wrong about what I reported before, I guess I only took it up to 54 grains of H4350, not 55 grains.

50 grains IMR 4007: 2584 2555 2554
52 grains H100V: 2701 2676 2665
54 grains H4350: 2636 2718 2703
54 grains RL 17: 2811 2789 2812 Sub MOA
55 grains Hunter: 2581 2579 2586
55 grains IMR 4831: 2640 2676 2656
56 grains RL 19: 2706 2673 2694
57 grains N160: 2673 2784 2763 poor accuracy
57 grains AA 3100: 2708 2665 2696
59 grains Win 780: 2701 2730 2780 MOA
59 grains H4831: 2630 2670 2668
59 grains RL22: 2764 2765 2743 poorest accuracy

I think you still have some room to operate with Ramshot hunter, but I'm not sure I wouldn't buy a couple more kegs of RL17 and not look back.

Expat

I think you're right on that one. Hard not to like top velocity and accuracy.

It may not be the most ideal powder but H4831 has always been my easy "go to" for the 190 Hornady. The IMR version has been my preferred 180 powder since it reaches better speeds. The 190 BTSP Interlocked has been a good moose killer when I've been loaded with that bullet. Never recovered one.

As you mentioned, one three shot group is hardly statistically relevant.

I know that I would be sending ten rounds downrange soonest, all loaded with RL17. And that might well become the only load ever used in that rifle.

But from my own experience, you might also be pleasantly surprised with 4831 of either persuasion as you approach maximum velocity.

IMR4831

check out the pressures listed as MAX loads on the 190 with H4831SC.. they are only about 46,000 CUP, or less!!!

so in other words, there is definitely some work up room...as the 06 is rated at 52 to 55,000 CUPs or so..

don't know why the factory load data is so low on pressure..

but with that powder cranking up the 190s to 2800 to 2850 fps is not real feat.. and its pressure is still below what the 06 is rated at...

Seafire,

The biggest drawback to H4831 and the 190 (in my rifle) was getting enough of it into the case to make that 2800 to 2850 fps you mention.

In a 22 inch barrel, 64 grains only got me to 2775 fps. 60 grains of IMR4831 put me to the same velocity and is a lot easier to get in the case.

I decline to discuss how far I pushed the load and what velocities I achieved with IMR4831. I will say, I sure wish I could have had a Pressure Trace system through the nineties. I still have all my fingers, and both eyes. Though that may be solely due to good fortune.

I've managed to get those velocities in a 1917 Enfield and then a pair of Model 70s with 24 inch barrels..

the Enfield has a military 26 inch barrel...

can't remember if I tested it in the Browning A Bolt, the only 22 inch barreled 06 in the gun cabinet..