I would like to reload for my Garand so I am looking for data.
Powder, bullet weight, and COL.
I have H4350 and RL17 powder, but if these are not appropriate I can get whatever is.

Thanks,

P

I have used 46.0-48.0grs of IMR-4064 with 150gr bullets and had no problems.

4350 and '17 aren't appropriate.

One of the 4895 class of powders is what you want.

Yes, do not use 4350 as the port pressure will be too high for the Garand. I suspect the same with RL-17.

IIRC IMR4895 was the powder used in the original military ammo.

IMR 4895 works well in the Garand.

Lyman recommends IMR 4895 and IMR 4064, Hornady and Sierra 168gr HPBTs would work well, soft point bullets aren't recommeded, so I'd say FMJs and HPBTs weighing 150-168grs would be ideal, maybe polymer tipped bullets like SSTs,GMXs and Interbonds, Ballistic Tips and Ballistic Silver Tips, E-Tips, Accubonds, Triples Shocks, Tipped Triple Shocks, Scirrocos, Accutips etc. I know the FMJs and HPBTs will work well, maybe someone else would know for sure about the the polymer tipped bullets? Will plastic-tipped bullets work through an M1 Garand fellas?

Get some IMR 4895 and IMR 4064, neither of the powders you have are suitable for the M1.

IIRC IMR4895 was the powder used in the original military ammo.

I think 4895 was the original powder, IMR was the improved version.

Hence "Improved Military Rifle". Learn something new every day.

The Hornady #7 loading manual has separate service rifle sections for the .223, .308, and .30/06.

Do not use slow-burning powders in the M1; the high port pressures will bend the operating rod.

Either of the 4895s (IMR or Hodgdon), IMR 4064, IMR 4320, Reloader-15, or Hodgdon Varget ought to work well.

I've settled on H4895 under a Win 147 FMJBT with a CCI military primer. Cases are mixed and were, before the first reloading, trimmed .020" under max OAL and subsequently sized with a small base RCBS X-die. Crimped at the cannelure with Lee factory crimp die. Works great.

I was referred to a very interesting perspective in a thread here:
http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?1165-M1-Garand-reload-with-VV-N150-amp-150gr-load

Basically, the premise of one of the posters there (goes by Parashooter) is that the Garand's gas system was designed around a powder charge of ~44 - 50 grains of powder under a 173-grain bullet. Distilling a bit, what that means is that nearly any powder that will give you what you seek in terms of speed and/or accuracy will be 'op-rod-safe' in a Garand, so long as the charge weight you use is below ~50 grains. If you read the person's post and really let it sink in, I think you'll see that his rule of thumb is the most appropriate thing to apply to the loading of an as-issued M1 Garand, rather than a simple admonition to use a certain powder.

They have for the past 25 years or so.

An adjustable gas plug will give you a little wider selection of loads.

I use this one, it limits the pressure, saving the op-rod from damage.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1538/Product/M1_GARAND_ADJUSTABLE_GAS_SYSTEM

I believe that 4895 was the govt powder of choice used in the M1 service rifle......

That's what I thought, thanks.

M2 Ball was loaded with a 152 grain flat based bullet with muzzle velocity of 2805 fps using du Pont No. 4895 (Hatcher). To match this I selected Sierra's #2130 bullet, 150 grain Pro Hunter. A charge of 49.0 grains of Hodgdon 4895 produced 2801 fps in my '03-A3 Springfield (original, excellent condition). Works well in my as-issued Garand.

Of course your mileage may vary depending on a lot of things. Sierra lists a starting charge of 44.5 grains and a max charge of 51.7 grains of IMR 4895 with this bullet.

Should add that I used WLR primers - be SURE that the primer seats level with or below the base of the case to avoid the possibility of slam fires. Should be NO rocking when you stand the cartridge on its base.

M2 overall length was specified to be 3.34 inches -.04 inches. Don't have the specific OAL I used handy but I imagine I seated to just a little less than 3.34 inches. Haven't found crimping to be necessary.

----------------------

Found it. 3.30 inches.

50.0 gr IMR 4895 for the 150gr M2ball
50.0gr IMR 4895 for the 150gr red tipped tracer
55.0gr WC 852 for the 165.7gr black tip M2AP
45.0gr IMR 4895 for the crimped case grenade launching blanks
11.0gr SR 4759 for the frangible bullet (green tip with white line)

I have all the original M1 garand ammo specs but these are a few. They are 110% accurate i can assure you. The M2 ball load performs very well with both Sierra and Hornady 150gr spitzers. Be extremely careful deviating from these loads. The main harm is bending the op rod. There are a few sites that may explain powder vs. gas expansion and such without me writing a paragraph to such. Good luck and good shooting.

i also have the military loadings for .30 carbine,.32,.38, .45,.223, .308, .50 bmg,20mm, 30mm, etc...if anyone were to need them.

I'd just like to comment on the history of IMR4895.

No, there wasn't originally a "plain" 4895 which was then improved. Instead the IMR powders were an improved line of extruded powders introduced by DuPont in the 1930's. DuPont added new powders to the line as research and need arose. IMR4895 was specifically developed for the Garand.

According to a couple of sources, IMR4227 was specifically developed for the .22 Hornet, as an improvement on what was then Hercules (and today Alliant) 2400.

There are also claims that IMR4350 was developed at least in part for the .300 H&H. This makes sense, as IMR4350 appeared in 1940, when the .300 H&H was starting to become popular in the U.S. due to being a regular chambering in the Model 70 Winchester.

You are correct. I do know with 100% certainty that IMR 4895 was made for the garand by DuPont and that there was only one 4895 at the time. And IMR 4350 was in fact designed for the .300 H&H. As for the IMR4227, i cant say. The military does not share their powder brand but their listed charge is 12.6gr with a velocity of 2750, 15ft from muzzle with a pressure of 43,000PSI

Probably the notion of a pre-IMR 4895 comes from older loading manuals, published before there was an H4895. Those manuals (including the Speer #6 that was my first manual back in the mid-1960's) simply listed 4895, without any prefix. But it was IMR4895. The same manual lists 4831, 4350, etc. without any prefixes.

Similarly, gun writers of that era called H4831 "No. 4831" or just plain 4831, because there wasn't any other 4831.

Makes sense

Is there any assurance that the 4895 produced way back when is exactly the same as current IMR 4895? (rhetorical, also different bullet) I prefer to load to specified velocity. Also allows me to use H4895 which is on hand for other uses, and not have to contemplate the difference between that and IMR, small though it is.

As I understand it, perhaps I'm wrong, military ammo of the era was loaded to meet velocity specifications to account for lot-to-lot variations which I imagine could be significant back then, particularly during wartime production.

(Of course the difference between 50.0 grains of current IMR 4895 and 49.0 grains of H4895 to simulate M2 Ball isn't particularly significant as a practical matter.)

Mule Deer,

Thanks for the comments on the genesis of IMR 4895. I'd thought the IMR was added when 4895 was standardized as a canister powder but didn't know it.

My U.S Army technical manual is dated 1994. As to when and how many revisions there were before 1994 I cant tell you. I do know that if one were to want the exact loading for the garand as specified by the military then the loading I have listed are correct. I do know that my Ohaus 1010 scale tells me that all of the M2 ball bullets I have are exactly 150grs. The sierra and hornady 150's are more like 151gr on average. so there are already differences there. I do know that people use H4831 and other powders without issued. I felt obligated to give the information anyone that asks about original Garand loads. With the high demand of powder causing manufacturers to work overtime im not so sure that 4831 5years ago is the same as today. Who knows. Im just glad I have all the powder i need for a while.

The Hatcher data was circa 1940. An interesting note on the bullet weight, 150 grains was specified but by WWII tin and antimony were hard to find. Cores were formed from reclaimed lead as-is and the bullet weight went to 152 grains. Hatcher has the specified bullet weight as 149 to 152 grains.

I bought 1000 new M2 ball bullets a few years ago. I have no clue how old they are but they all are 150gr. Im sure they have varied in weight from time to time by a couple grains. I never have pulled any from loaded ammo i have but i have plenty dated from the WWII era i could try. My technical manual lists a loaded weight of the entire cartridge but weighing them that way would prolly be useless. I do know that they are slightly lighter than Sierra and hornady 150's. Monday i loaded about 50 or so for dad, half m2 ball and half Hornady spt. The hornadys weighed in at about 151 on my Ohaus 1010 and 505 scales. The M2's were right at 150. I thought it to be strange also so i checked the sierra's i have and they were about 151 to 151.5gr. Either way ill know tomorrow how well a 50gr charge of IMR4895 behind M2 ball and Hornady spt group in a 31,xxx serialized early war garand.

Pharmseller,
Try the 168 Nosler Ballistic Tip and either 47 grs. of IMR 4895
or 48 grs IMR 4064.
With a 150 gr bullet use 49 grs. of IMR 4895 or else 50 grs. of IMR 4064.
Some Accurate Arms powders work very well too.
I won a M1 Garand Match with 168 Nosler Ballistic Tips and we shot all the way back to 600 yds. I guess I feel like the plastic tip bullets work pretty well!
whelennut

WWII M2 Ball .30-06 was a 150 grain FMJ and 4895 .

I load 168 grain red points and 42 - 46 grains of surplus 4895 .

God bless
Wyr