My 12 year old is shooting his great grandpa's .30'06 now (FN Mauser, 22" barrel) and seems to be handling it well, but the necessary extended practice to lead up to hunting with it is going to require some lighter loads for now. A test box of the Remington Recoil Management 125's went very quickly. I bought some 110 TSX's a while back and just picked up a bunch of 125's and 130's off the Classifieds this morning. Plenty to work with. So I'm going to start loading a few test batches.

I've got more H4350 than anything else. So, has anybody on the board tried H4350 below the book minimums?

Best -
Andy

I don't think H4350 is a good powder for that application.

Nope. Don't do it. Try one of the 4895's instead.

H4895 would work better.



or

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

Yeah, that's what I was afraid you guys were going to say. Dangit! I've not worked with reduced loads before, only gone down to minimums, so it's very unfamiliar territory. I've seen all the 4895 reduced load data, just no 4895 to be found on the very limited shelves around here. Now I'm going to have to pay the absurd shipping fee for an order too small to make it worth it.

Oh well. Thanks for confirming before I wasted the powder, anyway. Maybe the 110's loaded around minimum will be a light enough tap to keep him relaxed.

Best -
Andy

Do you have any other powders on the shelf?

Hey you can try loading h4350 at the minimum charge and work up, its worth a try.

Sure:

IMR 4064
IMR 3031
Varget

Normally keep H4831, but I'm running low and use it for my .270, so not looking to experiment with it right now. I hadn't planned to order anymore just yet, unless I have to place an order for H4895, in which case, I may as well only pay shipping once!

Best -
Andy

I understand this isn't what you asked for, but in the interest of 'general knowledge' for reduced loads, I suggest you take a look at Trail Boss.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

I've used this for some reduced .308 loads for a 11 year old and it works great. Did a 'ladder' of loads and picked the one that shot best in the rifle. He's gone through nearly 50 rounds so far and loves shooting it!! I've got 50 more ready to go for him.

3031 may be a good candidate.

That 3031 would be an excellent candidate for a reduced recoil load, particularly with the lighter bullets. Sierra and Lyman recommend 45 grains as a starting load with a 125 grain bullet, they list velocity as a bit over 2700 fps.

They show starting loads of 47 grains with a 110 grain bullet for velocities around 3000 fps. Speer shows a load of 42.5 grains with their 110 HP for 2572 fps.

You might try the 125 grain bullets, start at 45 grains and go down 1 grain at a time to maybe 42.

I�ve worked with reduced loads with a couple of the medium to fast-medium powders and they do very well in that role.

If you have some IMR4198 or can get some it makes a very mild and accurate load in the .30-06, throwing bullets around 2200-2400 fps at moderate pressure levels.

I work a lot with reduced loads.. both for kids and for myself on off season range shooting...

cast bullet manuals are a great reference for that info also..accuracy with H 4895 usually stinks and it makes a load boom for some reason, compared to other powders...

I prefer IMR 4198 ( Hodgdons 4198 will also work) or SR 4759 for reduced loads for kids... both are accurate and easy on the shoulder..

Remington's Reduced Load Managed Recoil stuff uses IMR 4198...

Since you mentioned 3031...out of Lyman's Cast Bullet manual number 3, with a 150 grain bullet ( jacketed bullets will be safe here). 30/06

29 grains gives an MV of 1682 fps, with a pressure listed at 12,000 CUPS to start.

42.5 grains give an MV of 2522 fps, with a pressure listed as 34,000 CUPS

With 4064 and a 160 grain bullet

29 grains to start will yield an MV of 1713 fps and a pressure of 14,000 CUPs

and a max load is listed as 46 grains of 4064 with an MV of 2730 fps and a CUP of 48,300...

so anything in between those points will work for ya, and I can attest via a lot of experience, that they will be much more accurate than most H 4895 loads...

Note, if you do have any IMR 4895 powder, you can substitute it for the Hodgdon data on their H 4895, and get much more accurate results..

Hodgdon only pushes it because the load data they have, was given to them by ADI, the folks who make the powder in Australia....who make this stuff for military use, not civilian use... so accuracy isn't as important to them as to hunters..

sorry I don't have any Varget data, but Varget is a more accurate choice than H 4895... I've used it, and have some data developed by me in my own notes, ( which I can't locate at the moment)... but what I am putting forth here is out of data manuals... not what I have developed....

data manuals are pressure tested... some folks are more comfortable with that before using them..

best of luck to your son on his hunting this fall..

Would those starter lead bullet loads maybe be too low for a jacketed one?

Your notes about H4895 vs. IMR4895 are very interesting and I am pleased to see them.

I worked with IMR4895 in reduced loads several years ago after reading an article in either Gun Digest or Handloader about how you can load it down some 30% below maximum and still get good accuracy.

Recently I wanted to create some reduced loads for myself (see my recent thread in this forum �Fun for recoil wimps�), so went out and bought a pound of IMR4895. I was sorely tempted to get the H version since I have switched from IMR to H in a couple of other identically numbered powders � 4831 and 4350 particularly. But I knew IMR4895 worked and stayed with it.

From your observations and my results on target I am glad I did!

not from my experiences...

I've ran starting velocities much lower with jacketed bullets in 26 inch barrels..but there is no real need to go lower..

Trail Boss for example works well with Jacketed bullets, and its usual MV max is in the 1100 to 1200 fps range..

Thanks for the additional insight and experience; helps alot. I reckon I'll try the 3031 I have now and look at getting some 4198 when I buy the next jug of 4831.

I expect he'll be into regular loads within a year, but he's got two more coming up behind him, so the experience will be well worth the time. I'll be doing the same thing for a .280 very soon. Besides, experimentin's fun!

Glad to help out...

good luck to the youngster!

Hmmm. I've found H4895 very useful. For one, it meters alot better than the IMR stuff like 4895 and 3031. It is also a temp insensitive powder.
I've used it for lighter bullet loads in the .308, and for reduced loads in the .280.
Sure, I like IMR or H4198 for really reduced loads too. It dopesn't make as much noise as the same velocity load with 4895 simply because there is less of it.
As to accuracy, I've found using magnum primers helps. Playing with the powder chgarge, either up or down can also help.
I haven't found any of them to be particularly more accurate than the others if you experiment a bit with them. So it becomes a matter of how much velocity you want. If you only need 2400 plus with a 130 gr. bullet in the '06, I use H4198. But if I need to push a 180 gr. bullet that fast, it's going to be either H4895 or Varget. E

You can also use Unique.

Hodgdon says to use H4895! My wife shoots a 30/06 with 150gr SST's and it kicks like a 243 but groups like a 223. Damn good!

I loaded 50gr IMR 4895 and Hornady 200gr FTX bullets for my Rem 350 mag and get great accuracy and reduced recoil. For reduced loads 4895 is the way to go.