Here's the story,
I've ran Fed primers in my hunting rifles almost exclusively the past 20 odd years. Probably 7-8 years ago I picked up a brick of WLR's, and they've been sitting in my loading cabinet ever since.

Last fall I snatched a 1983 vintage M700 in 243 that is almost pristine. The rifle was clean, but the first thing I always do is disassemble a new to me rifle, including pulling the firing pin assembly out of the bolt and cleaning everything. I learned the hard way a LOOOONG time ago that an accumulation of gunk in the bolt body can slow down a firing pin sufficiently to prevent ignition. This rifle has been in the safe since other than the two trips to the range. In other words, the bolt ain't dirty.

I decided to dedicate that brick of WLR's primers to this rifle.

This spring I had one fail-to fire with new, unfired Noz brass. Today, my first time out with this rifle since, I had about 5 failures out of 25 rounds with unfired Noz brass. I'm igniting H4831.

The indentations on the primers of the failed rounds appear normal--no light strikes I can see anyway.

I'm trying to remember if Win rifle primers have a bit thicker walls than other primers? Obviously there is some other issue, but.......?

Casey

Winchester primers have a soft cup.

They are what you switch to when others fail to go boom.

Sounds like you have a bad lot. Are they the stainless cup or the newer brass cups? I run WW primers in my M1's and have never had a problem.

I hate Winchester primers,almost as much as Nosler brass.

Headspace.

Hint.................

It doesn't sounds like a head space issue. I once has a similar experience with a brick of Fed 215's. About 1 in 10 wouldn't go bang. It was just a bad batch of primers.

I didn't want to go there......

I'm thinking (hoping) that any "headspace" issue is the brass. Now that its been fired......

Need to break out the Stoney Point and check the datum on the new Noz vs fired Noz brass

Norma has a tendency to make brass on the short end....

Also never knew Win primers to be "soft"....

They're the older color--this brick is probably 7-8 years old.

I have been using W-W large rifle primers exclusively in non-magnum cartridges ever since I started handloading almost fifty years ago. I have never had one fail to fire. Must be a bad lot, or else they have somehow been contaminated. I would contact W-W customer service and see if they would replace them.

You are beyond clueless...............

Of course it's the brass.

Hint...................

They aren't soft,but oft undersized..................

Headspace................

The new Noz brass is measuring 2.620 off the datum, the fired brass is measuring 2.627-2.630. I''m thinking that's a fair amount of "growth"......

I wondered at the possibility on the drive home, but didn't really think it was likely Noz/Norma was undersized enough to create "headspace".

What the snarf is Norma thinking?

Casey

Norma sucks heavy ass.

I'm "surprised" it was headspace..................(grin)

GOOD habit to remove striker assembly and start adding tape to Virgin headstamps.

It be enlightening.

Hint.

Start at the start................

Let me try this ...

Just for giggles I'd measure the protrusion of the firing pin. Specs vary but .060" is a good number.

You never know til you know.


How's that?

Is it clueless enough?

This. This happens a lot with Steyr Scouts as their chambers are Euro and about four-thousandths longer than SAAMI. Put a short case with a hard mil primer and you'll get an occasional failure to fire.

That and I'd take that 700 bolt apart and clean it.

It sounds like it was headspace but I did have a misfire with a WLR last week. The batch was probably from 8 years ago or so too. Re-cambered the round and it went off on the second try.

The do seem to be a little undersized too as mentioned compared to CCI 200�s.

The OP said he had already cleaned the bolt assembly.

EASILY an A+ for Cluelessness.

Headspace.

Hint..............

I had that problem. A trip to the gunsmith corrected it. The firing pin spring was worn out. That spring ignited enough rounds to wear out three barrels so I got my monies worth. You may have a bad one from the factory.

As far as the primers go: When I was looking for the most accurate load for my .223 I started with CCI BR-4. Once I had it I loaded of ten of each of several company's primers. Everyone of the Winchester primers pierced. None of the others did.

Top of the morning to you and thank you for giving me an A+.

I just figgered if you're going to start at the start you might want to start with the mechanism that makes it go bang. It's an easy enough possibility to eliminate albeit not the only or the most likely.

I guess dragging out the calipers and taking a simple measurement requires a lot of extraneous and wasted effort.

That's OK though. I just upped my post count by one more.

Kudos on the quantity.

Perhaps consider quality in lieu of such things?

Damned few can connect both quality and quantity dots.

As an aside,I'm fairly certain a casual gawk of the pin,will yield all and it'd assuredly take a damn long one,to circumvent headspace woe...then it might just get ugly after they's formed.

Just saying.

Good talk!...............

+ 1

I would be careful with the newer brass cup Win primers in your Garrand, I know that they are not advised in AR style semi autos because they can cause a slam fire.

Interesting thread. I happen to have some brand new norma 243 brass here and just checked them via my rcbs dedicated hs micrometer. They are .005-.006 undersized right out of the box.
I happen to have 2 rifles which will misfire with Win primers but NEVER misfire with federal. One is an older marlin 3030, the other is cva scout rifle in 708 that has a good amount of headspace built into the chamber. Both give me misfire with copper colored win primers...the wlr's.
Just put a note on my box of norma.....use only fed 210 primers....I bet everyone pops the way it should. Geez with mild loads I might be able to go a long long time with just a lee collet die...lol.

Headspace control outta the gate,is the first greatest favor you can do brass and reliability.

Hint.................

Freddy

I hear what your saying about the WW brass primers. I think shooters were skeptical when the stainless steel primers were changed to brass. Probably an unfounded reason. All of the GI M2 Ball and M2 AP I have fired is brass primed. All the current HXP Greek ammo being brought in by the CMP is also brass primed. If the new brass primers were that soft then 60K plus PSI factory loads would pierce them. WW would not risk that kind of liability in today's world. I also use them in my DCM configured AR along with Remington seven and a half. I really don't see a problem.

Now Fed. caps are "soft" and don't need a giant whack...

The undersized Wins oddly are the most sloppy when coupled with Win cases.

Headspace: don't need much, but ya gotta have it.

A Remmy made in the 70's prolly ain't real snug in the chamber department either..

I've had 'em sloppy in all Virgins.

Never recall a dud...............

Only poofters I've seen had a serious alox bath.....

No kidding. Hadn't heard that. Just found 2 boxes of WLR primers last night when digging through my reloading stuff. Guess I'll load em up and see what happens.

The unplated WLR & WLRM primers I have are undersize.

They fit loose in primer pockets and measure undersize. There is a specific diameter for primers and these are out of specification.

This has been reported earlier here and on other sites.

Stainless steel primer cups?

I've found the WW LRP to be undersized, and they will sometimes have a soot ring with low pressures. I used to use them for my plinking loads, but switched to 9 1/2.