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Posted By: TATELAW Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
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The above two groups are from my 240Wby with 85gr SGKs. First is 52.4gr second is 53gr, both IMR4831. The rifle is a custom built on a Pre 64 action and has plenty of mag length to reach the lands. I know a Wby is supposed to have freebore but I worked my way up in 0.3 grain increments and I'm not showing pressure signs. Both of the above loads were loaded to the lands. The group in between the two above at 52.7gr was more of a cloverleaf pattern but at about 1.25 inches.

Do the above groups indicate a loading depth issue? Should I try these loads at .01 inch deeper increments? Those two shots almost on top of each other at 2 different charges are enticing, just wondering if loading them deeper might help with that flyer.

The action is bedded very well and the barrel is floated. Trigger is great. 26 inch barrel that is not quite varmint contour but definitely heavier than a standard sporter. I don't think it's a barrel heat issue.

Sorry about the fly in the second pic. My buddy splattered him a few minutes later with his 204!
Posted By: 79S Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink.
Posted By: antelope_sniper Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Originally Posted by 79S
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink.


This.
Posted By: denton Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
I'm not a big fan of such small changes in charge or seating depth.

With many powders, a 30 degree F change in barrel temperature is equivalent to a grain of powder. If you're not controlling barrel temperature to within a degree or two, small changes in charge or seating depth will be completely swamped by the temperature change. If you can get it to work today, chances are it won't work tomorrow.

If it were mine, I'd start by re-checking bedding. After a little coaching from someone who understands better than I do, I found I could feel barrel rubs that I couldn't feel before. In some cases, I can feel the barrel rub "grab" on the ink on a dollar bill, and smoothly slide over unprinted areas.

If that is unproductive, I would remove the scope and bases.

Once in a great while, the front screw on the bases will bottom out on the threads of the barrel before the screw is tight. That's a hard one to detect. Remount the bases, put blue LockTite on the screws, and torque them all to spec. Insure that the rings are aligned so that they do not stress your scope when it is mounted.

Torque your action mounting screws to spec. Once you do, loosen the rear screw and see if the rear tang moves up out of the stock. If it does, you have a bedding problem.

Start your shooting test with a different scope.

For a short test, torque the ring screws to spec and see how the rifle is shooting.

Then switch back to the scope you're using. Put blue LockTite on the ring screws, and tighten them only to spec, so that the scope is not stressed.

Do not zoom the scope while performing these tests. You may have a situation where the scope does not hold zero while zooming.

Once you can get the rifle to shoot itty bitty groups without zooming, check to see if your scope returns to zero after zooming.

If none of that helps, then a good guess is that the barrel-receiver junction is not as rigid as it should be. Charlie Sisk knows how to fix that.

Oh, and one more thing: If you are using aluminum rings and a rail type mount, be sure that you didn't over-torque the screws that attach the base to the rail. A little bit too much torque, and the heads of the screws pull through. You can knock them back out and re-seat them with JB Weld.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
It looks to me like your rifle somehow has gotten the notion into its head that I am firing it.
Posted By: 79S Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Originally Posted by denton
I'm not a big fan of such small changes in charge or seating depth.

With many powders, a 30 degree F change in barrel temperature is equivalent to a grain of powder. If you're not controlling barrel temperature to within a degree or two, small changes in charge or seating depth will be completely swamped by the temperature change. If you can get it to work today, chances are it won't work tomorrow.

If it were mine, I'd start by re-checking bedding. After a little coaching from someone who understands better than I do, I found I could feel barrel rubs that I couldn't feel before. In some cases, I can feel the barrel rub "grab" on the ink on a dollar bill, and smoothly slide over unprinted areas.

If that is unproductive, I would remove the scope and bases.

Once in a great while, the front screw on the bases will bottom out on the threads of the barrel before the screw is tight. That's a hard one to detect. Remount the bases, put blue LockTite on the screws, and torque them all to spec. Insure that the rings are aligned so that they do not stress your scope when it is mounted.

Torque your action mounting screws to spec. Once you do, loosen the rear screw and see if the rear tang moves up out of the stock. If it does, you have a bedding problem.

Start your shooting test with a different scope.

For a short test, torque the ring screws to spec and see how the rifle is shooting.

Then switch back to the scope you're using. Put blue LockTite on the ring screws, and tighten them only to spec, so that the scope is not stressed.

Do not zoom the scope while performing these tests. You may have a situation where the scope does not hold zero while zooming.

Once you can get the rifle to shoot itty bitty groups without zooming, check to see if your scope returns to zero after zooming.

If none of that helps, then a good guess is that the barrel-receiver junction is not as rigid as it should be. Charlie Sisk knows how to fix that.

Oh, and one more thing: If you are using aluminum rings and a rail type mount, be sure that you didn't over-torque the screws that attach the base to the rail. A little bit too much torque, and the heads of the screws pull through. You can knock them back out and re-seat them with JB Weld.


What in the Fiddlesticks Any other advice hell maybe buy a new rifle [bleep]... You say your not a big fan of small changes but looks like your a fan of big ass changes.
To OP try seating the bullets like was said already .005
Posted By: prairie_goat Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Originally Posted by 79S
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink.


Waste of components.
Posted By: bsa1917hunter Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Originally Posted by 5sdad
It looks to me like your rifle somehow has gotten the notion into its head that I am firing it.



laugh....Atleast someone around here is honest... grin
Posted By: bsa1917hunter Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Originally Posted by denton
I'm not a big fan of such small changes in charge or seating depth.

With many powders, a 30 degree F change in barrel temperature is equivalent to a grain of powder. If you're not controlling barrel temperature to within a degree or two, small changes in charge or seating depth will be completely swamped by the temperature change. If you can get it to work today, chances are it won't work tomorrow.

If it were mine, I'd start by re-checking bedding. After a little coaching from someone who understands better than I do, I found I could feel barrel rubs that I couldn't feel before. In some cases, I can feel the barrel rub "grab" on the ink on a dollar bill, and smoothly slide over unprinted areas.

If that is unproductive, I would remove the scope and bases.

Once in a great while, the front screw on the bases will bottom out on the threads of the barrel before the screw is tight. That's a hard one to detect. Remount the bases, put blue LockTite on the screws, and torque them all to spec. Insure that the rings are aligned so that they do not stress your scope when it is mounted.

Torque your action mounting screws to spec. Once you do, loosen the rear screw and see if the rear tang moves up out of the stock. If it does, you have a bedding problem.

Start your shooting test with a different scope.

For a short test, torque the ring screws to spec and see how the rifle is shooting.

Then switch back to the scope you're using. Put blue LockTite on the ring screws, and tighten them only to spec, so that the scope is not stressed.

Do not zoom the scope while performing these tests. You may have a situation where the scope does not hold zero while zooming.

Once you can get the rifle to shoot itty bitty groups without zooming, check to see if your scope returns to zero after zooming.

If none of that helps, then a good guess is that the barrel-receiver junction is not as rigid as it should be. Charlie Sisk knows how to fix that.

Oh, and one more thing: If you are using aluminum rings and a rail type mount, be sure that you didn't over-torque the screws that attach the base to the rail. A little bit too much torque, and the heads of the screws pull through. You can knock them back out and re-seat them with JB Weld.


Good post denton..
Posted By: antelope_sniper Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by 79S
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink.


This.


Excuse me, I'm off a magnitude.
Go deeper by .05 increments.
Posted By: Klikitarik Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Could just be ignition; perhaps try the same loads with a couple different primers.

Or it could be that the rifle isn't quite in line with this powder choice.

Five shot groups might also tell you more; it looks like you basically have four shots in nearly the same hole.
Posted By: 79S Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
I have a 338 wsm if I use 215 it patterns but use 210's it groups...
Posted By: AussieGunWriter Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Bedding
Primer change
Screws.
seating depth.
Also, the .240 Weatherby along with the .416 do not have freebore. They are the only Weatherby's with standard throating.
John
Posted By: antelope_sniper Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/23/14
Originally Posted by OP
The action is bedded very well and the barrel is floated. Trigger is great. 26 inch barrel that is not quite varmint contour but definitely heavier than a standard sporter. I don't think it's a barrel heat issue.
Posted By: Whelen Nut Re: Diagnosis Please - 09/25/14
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by 79S
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink.


This.


ONE MORE TIME!
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