308 cast - 10/22/14
do any of you hunt with the 308 and cast bullets. whats your load. how does it work.
Re: 308 cast - 10/22/14
That's one .30 cartridge I dodged owning in 45 years of looniness. I do hunt with cast bullets in all my current .30s though.
Re: 308 cast - 10/22/14
how do they work on game and what velocity range do you run them in.
Re: 308 cast - 10/22/14
I've used the Lyman #311291 quite a bit on deer n a 30-30. I've only done paper killing with it in the .308 but accuracy has ben quite good. Fifteen dead deer sure are not complaining about how well it kills. Sgain, in the 30-30 the last two deer were taken using the RCBS #30-180-FP. The Lyman bullet run right at 180 gr. from my alloy and the RCBS just a hair shy of 190 gr. (188 gr.)
Paul B.
Paul B.
Re: 308 cast - 10/23/14
The thing about .30 cast bullets is you are limited to .30-30 performance or a bit better before accuracy heads south and the barrel starts to lead- given bullet alloys that are conducive to expanding on game. There are certainly many exceptions to that rule, but let it suffice for a raw beginner. (Composite bullets, paper patching, etc.)
That is why the .30-30 and similar cartridges are so versatile- you can get factory performance with lead bullets at a tiny fraction of the cost.
To make up for that shortcoming, what one does in larger capacity cases is run heavy bullets. For example, I shoot a 220 grain cast bullet in .30-06 at 2000fps, which puts it squarely in the power range of the .30-40 Krag which was (and is) considered a darn fine big game cartridge. (A trick that is certainly repeatable in a .308, I would presume.)
The only other way to beat the shortcomings of cast bullets is to go to a larger diameter cartridge, say .35 or .45 caliber, where you have bullet weights available that when driven at .30-30 velocities (2000fps give or take) provide some truly impressive energy figures.
That said, a 180-190 grain .30 cast bullet, either round nose or flat nosed, driven at initial velocity of 2000fps, is a darned fine killer of deer sized game. I've been doing it for years, and have had a ball with experimenting also, not to mention probably saved enough in ammo costs to buy a couple nice rifles.
That is why the .30-30 and similar cartridges are so versatile- you can get factory performance with lead bullets at a tiny fraction of the cost.
To make up for that shortcoming, what one does in larger capacity cases is run heavy bullets. For example, I shoot a 220 grain cast bullet in .30-06 at 2000fps, which puts it squarely in the power range of the .30-40 Krag which was (and is) considered a darn fine big game cartridge. (A trick that is certainly repeatable in a .308, I would presume.)
The only other way to beat the shortcomings of cast bullets is to go to a larger diameter cartridge, say .35 or .45 caliber, where you have bullet weights available that when driven at .30-30 velocities (2000fps give or take) provide some truly impressive energy figures.
That said, a 180-190 grain .30 cast bullet, either round nose or flat nosed, driven at initial velocity of 2000fps, is a darned fine killer of deer sized game. I've been doing it for years, and have had a ball with experimenting also, not to mention probably saved enough in ammo costs to buy a couple nice rifles.
Re: 308 cast - 10/23/14
I've shot the LBT .309 spitzer (water dropped WWs) with 38grs. H4895. It wasn't much different than shooting jacketed bullets out of it; in fact it shot to the same POI as the 150 PT Golds we were shooting and the groups and loads were shot interchanged, all going within 1.5 inches.
I've been meaning to use the load for hogs, just haven't got around to it.
I've been meaning to use the load for hogs, just haven't got around to it.
Re: 308 cast - 10/23/14
Powder coat your cast bullets as cast then run through a Lee sizer. You can shoot them w/o gas checks or and other lube and load then to jacketed load data.
Harbor Freight powder coat system is $*).00, thrift store toster oven around $10.00.
Harbor Freight powder coat system is $*).00, thrift store toster oven around $10.00.
Re: 308 cast - 10/23/14
I'd be concerned with the terminal results with WW metal after annealing them and driving them that fast...
I've hunted with flat points at 2,500 and one at 2,900. They need a ductile nose for terminal damage and to "cushion" the lino or heat treated base shank, so you get some penetration without bombing the entire bullet to bits.
I've hunted with flat points at 2,500 and one at 2,900. They need a ductile nose for terminal damage and to "cushion" the lino or heat treated base shank, so you get some penetration without bombing the entire bullet to bits.
Re: 308 cast - 10/24/14
I have not read about any problems like that but I have read where pure lead was pushed fast enough to come apart in the air. The powder coating just allows you to use cast like jacketed without leading.
Re: 308 cast - 10/24/14
Several problems I see with that:
A: Lead alloys obturate way before jacketed bullets do; obturation isn't the root of all evil but running jacketed data with most cast alloy is also running higher pressure, simply because lead in any alloy form obturates easier and creates more pressure before a jacket or even a gas check.
B: Leading increases pressure, so the elimination of leading can and does increase the limit of loading for lead alloys; not a bad thing. However, the limit of obturation and the pressures created by obturation has a limit for gas checks, lubes, even powder coating. To say a powder coated, pure lead bullet deserves the same loading data as say, a Nosler Ballisic Tip with a pure lead core, is said without any reference to measured, ballistic lab data, that I'm aware of. We are saying "I have no leading, so we have no pressure" Sorry, but a powder coating is limited, even more so than the paper patch and especially the jacket/patch of gilding metal, as far as avoiding pressure, because it is the least rigid, hence, the most effected by obturation and friction.
C: Cast lead can achieve similar on game performance as some of the best jacketed bullets is not unfounded; to say a "coated" pure lead anything, driven without leading, will hold together within a modicum of anything with a gilding metal jacket at the same impact speed, all else equal, is devoid of science and metallurgy....
D: No mention is made of accuracy. We don't expect any accuracy from a nasty leading load; we also don't expect any accuracy from a load that doesn't lead, yet the pure lead comes apart in the air.
"Like jacketed" can mean many things. Getting cast to be "like jacketed" can be achieved in speed, fouling, loading or on game performance. Getting all generally means your probably using a jacketed bullet.....
A: Lead alloys obturate way before jacketed bullets do; obturation isn't the root of all evil but running jacketed data with most cast alloy is also running higher pressure, simply because lead in any alloy form obturates easier and creates more pressure before a jacket or even a gas check.
B: Leading increases pressure, so the elimination of leading can and does increase the limit of loading for lead alloys; not a bad thing. However, the limit of obturation and the pressures created by obturation has a limit for gas checks, lubes, even powder coating. To say a powder coated, pure lead bullet deserves the same loading data as say, a Nosler Ballisic Tip with a pure lead core, is said without any reference to measured, ballistic lab data, that I'm aware of. We are saying "I have no leading, so we have no pressure" Sorry, but a powder coating is limited, even more so than the paper patch and especially the jacket/patch of gilding metal, as far as avoiding pressure, because it is the least rigid, hence, the most effected by obturation and friction.
C: Cast lead can achieve similar on game performance as some of the best jacketed bullets is not unfounded; to say a "coated" pure lead anything, driven without leading, will hold together within a modicum of anything with a gilding metal jacket at the same impact speed, all else equal, is devoid of science and metallurgy....
D: No mention is made of accuracy. We don't expect any accuracy from a nasty leading load; we also don't expect any accuracy from a load that doesn't lead, yet the pure lead comes apart in the air.
"Like jacketed" can mean many things. Getting cast to be "like jacketed" can be achieved in speed, fouling, loading or on game performance. Getting all generally means your probably using a jacketed bullet.....
Re: 308 cast - 10/24/14
Several problems I see with that:
A: Lead alloys obturate way before jacketed bullets do; obturation isn't the root of all evil but running jacketed data with most cast alloy is also running higher pressure, simply because lead in any alloy form obturates easier and creates more pressure before a jacket or even a gas check.
B: Leading increases pressure, so the elimination of leading can and does increase the limit of loading for lead alloys; not a bad thing. However, the limit of obturation and the pressures created by obturation has a limit for gas checks, lubes, even powder coating. To say a powder coated, pure lead bullet deserves the same loading data as say, a Nosler Ballisic Tip with a pure lead core, is said without any reference to measured, ballistic lab data, that I'm aware of. We are saying "I have no leading, so we have no pressure" Sorry, but a powder coating is limited, even more so than the paper patch and especially the jacket/patch of gilding metal, as far as avoiding pressure, because it is the least rigid, hence, the most effected by obturation and friction.
C: Cast lead can achieve similar on game performance as some of the best jacketed bullets is not unfounded; to say a "coated" pure lead anything, driven without leading, will hold together within a modicum of anything with a gilding metal jacket at the same impact speed, all else equal, is devoid of science and metallurgy....
D: No mention is made of accuracy. We don't expect any accuracy from a nasty leading load; we also don't expect any accuracy from a load that doesn't lead, yet the pure lead comes apart in the air.
"Like jacketed" can mean many things. Getting cast to be "like jacketed" can be achieved in speed, fouling, loading or on game performance. Getting all generally means your probably using a jacketed bullet.....
A: Lead alloys obturate way before jacketed bullets do; obturation isn't the root of all evil but running jacketed data with most cast alloy is also running higher pressure, simply because lead in any alloy form obturates easier and creates more pressure before a jacket or even a gas check.
B: Leading increases pressure, so the elimination of leading can and does increase the limit of loading for lead alloys; not a bad thing. However, the limit of obturation and the pressures created by obturation has a limit for gas checks, lubes, even powder coating. To say a powder coated, pure lead bullet deserves the same loading data as say, a Nosler Ballisic Tip with a pure lead core, is said without any reference to measured, ballistic lab data, that I'm aware of. We are saying "I have no leading, so we have no pressure" Sorry, but a powder coating is limited, even more so than the paper patch and especially the jacket/patch of gilding metal, as far as avoiding pressure, because it is the least rigid, hence, the most effected by obturation and friction.
C: Cast lead can achieve similar on game performance as some of the best jacketed bullets is not unfounded; to say a "coated" pure lead anything, driven without leading, will hold together within a modicum of anything with a gilding metal jacket at the same impact speed, all else equal, is devoid of science and metallurgy....
D: No mention is made of accuracy. We don't expect any accuracy from a nasty leading load; we also don't expect any accuracy from a load that doesn't lead, yet the pure lead comes apart in the air.
"Like jacketed" can mean many things. Getting cast to be "like jacketed" can be achieved in speed, fouling, loading or on game performance. Getting all generally means your probably using a jacketed bullet.....
Re: 308 cast - 10/24/14
Your points are well taken, twice. 
I only relate what I have read. I have plans to try powder coating and see what advantages it may give.
I only relate what I have read. I have plans to try powder coating and see what advantages it may give.
Re: 308 cast - 10/24/14
Oops...
I think the main advantage of coating will be higher speeds without leading; but I wouldn't get too hung up on "using jacketed loads".
I've used colloidal graphite on heat teated stuff; it was basically like paint suspended in iso alcohol. It worked well, but the stuff was expensive.
I think the main advantage of coating will be higher speeds without leading; but I wouldn't get too hung up on "using jacketed loads".
I've used colloidal graphite on heat teated stuff; it was basically like paint suspended in iso alcohol. It worked well, but the stuff was expensive.
Re: 308 cast - 10/25/14
I have read a lot on the cast bullet forum and the 300 blackout forum. The results seem to me to be well worth the expense.
If I am wrong it sure wouldn't be the first time.
If I am wrong it sure wouldn't be the first time.