What advantages does one hold over another?

7MM-08 has easier to find brass. Other than that pick one and kill schit

Or make brass, and I believe you get one more in the magbox as well

I worked up loads for both. The 284 is my R77 with a Shaw barrel, the 7-08 was my nephews A-bolt. Both were sent to Blackstar for .0005" taper bore, bore polish and cryo treatment.
The 284 barrel is 19.5" the 7-08 is 22".

Both perform very well. The 284 gave 100-200 fps over the 7-08, but as we all know, you have to shoot the specific gun to know just what it will do.

JMHO---the 284 is way cool and very efficient. Only problems if not factory finished is that chambering can be an issue with 284, but there are those who can fix that. Also brass location can be an issue, but that is another story lately.

As noted above, both kill stuff.
Tim

I recently asked myself this same question and decided in favor of the 7-08 for two reasons already cited:

1) Feeding is easier
2) I had a ton of 7.62x51 NATO brass for forming where .284 is rarer than hen's teeth

They're both capable cartridges and the 284 has a significant edge in cool factor but performance gap wasn't (in my mind) sufficient to justify the two factors above.

The pros and cons have pretty much been listed. I have a 7-08 and like it a lot. If 284 brass were easier to find I'd like to have one. It's one caliber I think should have more popularity than it does. It was "short mag" before "short mag" was cool, and does it with a standard bolt face!

I have a couple 284's, and like them a lot. The argument over hard-to-find brass might make sense if you were a bench shooter..but as a hunter, I've been using the same 50 ps of brass since I did load development with it 8 years ago. I just buy it when I see it, I've got plenty to get me through the revolution.

I purchased a Savage model 11f chambered in 7-08 and had it rechambered to 284, with Rl 17 powder and the barnes 140 gr ttsx it will shoot groups as small as 1/2 inch.

What speed do you get out of those 140's Freddy?

Finding 284 brass is as easy as necking up 6.5-284 brass.Just as easy as necking down 308 brass to 7mm-08.I have both calibers and like them equally,but the 284 is faster than the 7mm-08 in equal barrel lengths.

I have both, but my 284 gets used more.

If I wasn't a handloader(or didn't have the 284) I'd lean 7mm-08. They both do close to the same thing, easier to find ammo and brass for the 7mm-08.

I am getting 2890 with 140 gr ttsx using 52.5 gr RL 17, I have a load using 54 gr of RL 17 using the no longer manufactured 140 gr xlc bullet that runs 2960.

I've got a good load using 54gr R19 with nosler 140gr BT I'm getting 2670fps. I need to get some more loaded so I might give R17 a try since I do have some. This is for my A-bolt

Your getting some real low numbers with that load, I would definitely try RL 17, you should be getting at least 2850 with your 284.

Heck, those velocities aren't any better than a 7x57. I get 2895 w/51.5 of RL19 in an old '95 Mauser 7x57. I thought the .284 was better than that. powdr

I will recheck it again when it warms up and before I try a different load.
I just checked my new sierra manual and with a test barrel of 26"
54.4 R19 and 140gr bullet the book list it at 2800. My barrel is 22", so that's a lot of 200fps difference. I will recheck it anyway.
New nosler manual is 2836 with 55gr and 24"

Its all relative to the specific gun. My 19.5" barreled R77 in 284 gets 2860 fps easy with 160NPs. That is a thumper. It gets 3200fps easy with 120BTs. That also does the job down range.
Well ahead of my 7x57s and nephews 7x08.
But then........
You gotta shoot em to know the numbers.
jmho
Tim

I have UNBIASED opinions on the subject.

IF you want 270-280 performance the 284 W wins the debate. The KOOL factor NOT factored in. However factory ammo AND brass for handloading are 'scarce'. Believe me I know.

IF that higher vel. advantage is not that important to you THEN the 7-08 is really worth considering. PLUS ammo and brass are MUCH easier to get/find.

ONLY you can make that choice for your needs and preferences.



edited to add:

On second thot - get the 7-08!! Then you will not be MORE competition for 284 brass.

284 Win. needs a 3.1" action to take advantage of different length bullets. IMHO based on one build.

kk -

You are correct, otherwise shorter actions mandate seating the bullets 'deeper' and EITHER requiring compressed loads OR reduced powder charges.

I'm currently finishing a 284 W on a 98 Mauser and the +/-3.1" action/magazine is just right.

I have custom 23" .284 barrel on a Rem LH SA so the magazine limits me to .2.95". My cartridge OAL is 2.93" with the 140-gr TTSX so it protrudes down into the case about a third of it's length. But with R17 I got 3150 fps then backed down to 3075 fps. Off a bi-pod, I shot a 1.31" group with this bullet at 400 yds.

The even longer 150-gr TSX gets to 2950-3000 fps withe same powder. The oft repeated and dreaded "the bullet protrudes down into the cartridge case due to magazine restrictions in a short action," makes no difference in this case. Pun intended.

A Friendly observation:

At least it requires 'compression' of powder charges.

I have SEEN bullets squeezed back out....

Jwall, I agree with you. But I had this rifle built with portability being the main priority and maybe I have a particularly "fast" barrel; anyway, I am very happy with it as it's very accurate too.

Anyway, I have nothing against the 7-08, but the .284, even in a short action out-7-08s the 7-08.

George -

IF, if the 284 W was more popular and ammo/brass were readily available there would be NO choice between the 2 for me.

Having just entered the 284 W world, one who have to be determined to over come those 2 obstacles. I AM.

I have nothing against the 7-08/7mm Mauser but I REALLY like faster bullets. You only have to use 'bullets' capable of performing at higher vel. NO criticism implied toward anyone but some don't understand proper bullet performance.

I really like my Pre-64/Krieger 6.5-284. But, it's a LA, not a SA. Tweaking an action, LA or SA, to feed the fatter .284 case takes some smith work.

6.5-284 Lapua brass is super quality and could be easily opened up to .284. That's what I'd do.

But, if I was building a .284, I'd probably want a LA. And, with my LA, I'd lean toward building a .280AI...

I once had a 7-08. Nice gun, but it eventually went down the road, traded for a more interesting piece. And, I can't even remember what that was, would have to research my records...

DF

DF, I originally wanted this rifle to be chambered in 7 SAUM which I was enamored with but Lex Webernick of Rifles Inc., refused; said nothing but feeding problems with it. However, he said the .284 is no problem at all. So far with this rifle, he has been proven right as far as the .284 is concerned.

My M-70 6.5-284 feeds slick, but had some work, including machining the follower to accommodate the fatter round.

What's your thinking on SA/LA for the .284? I know there are aftermarket mag. set ups for more bullet room.

DF

Everything else being equal (pressures, magazine and barrel length, etc.) the .284 is capable of about 4% faster velocities. This means the same bullet in the 7mm-08 getting 3000 fps will get around 3120 in the .284.

Comparing claims by different handloaders about potential velocities doesn't mean much. Handloaders who get magic velocities with a .284 are also likely to get magic velocities with a 7mm-08.

There you go-- talking 4%

albeit 3120 fps makes me smile



I not ready yet to shoot my 284 and it's the first one I've ever had, but always wanted.

I have NO intention of 'hot rodding' it.

3000-3100 fps with accuracy will make me quite happy.

Even if I could get 3000 with the 7-08, it' not a 284 case. Some people like pink, others purple.

I build 284's on SA Remingtons for my boys when they were old enough to hunt. The load we used was 55 grains of RL-19 and a 145 grain Speer Hot Cor. Boys are all grown and on their own now and they have moved on to different cartridges. In the last six months or so I sold over 1000 rounds of new WW 284 brass I had stashed on the campfire classifieds. I don't recall the velocity but the load data is still printed on the plastic ammo boxes. I fit each rifle with a 24 inch Shilen barrel.

What he said!

I have felt that the 284 ceased to be relevant, except as the parent case for a number of wildcats, when the 7mm SAUM and 7mm WSM were introduced.

Unless you handload, the 284 is nothing more than an expensive 308. If you don't believe it, look at the Winchester/Olin velocity tables and compare the 150 grain 284 to the 150 grain 308.

The only 7mm SAUMs that I've shot have been a Remington Seven and a 700, both feed fine. My Remington Seven and 700 SA in 25-284 and 6.5-284 feed fine, but I swapped to the SAUM magazine boxes in the hope that they would feed even better. My Winchester/USRA 70 Fwt in 6.5-284 is a LA, a rechambered 6.5x55, and it has always fed fine without any change to the rails.

You gotta remember, there's SAAMI pressure, then there's Campfire pressure...

DF

Do magic velocities also translate to magic pressures?

Is there much gain to to a 7-08AI on a current 7-08 gun? Related question, how does the 7-08AI compare to the 284win?

DF NOTE MD's 'valid' comparison; I agree with BOTH of ya!

Where HAVE you been? the last 30 yrs?
150 gr in 284 AINT the same as 150 gr in 308 ? SHEESH !!

Yeah, I know that in a LONG action the 284 doesn't gain anything over 270/280, understood.

And in SHORT actions the 7-08 is running on the rear bumper of the 284. I don't like looking up tail pipes!!

NO other cartridge has the panache of a 284 Win. That's my opinion and that's all that matters to ME.

IIRC a 7-08AI runs like a vanilla 280.

I did some work with 200-gr bullets in 300 Win mag in the eighties with a custom throat in the barrel and Rem 700 action with plenty of magazine room; this allowed me to seat the Sierra 200-gr bullet's base just to the neck-case juncture and found very little velocity advantage by gaining that small amount of case capacity compared to 200's protruding down into the case. This was comparing loads in the same rifle before and after the throat was lengthened.

With this 284 I expect the same would be true. I think it's been an issue that has often been raised but the advantages are minimal especially for a guy who just wants to hunt game. The advantage of a shorter action is increased "stiffness" and lighter weight even if not much.

I had no intentions of hot rodding this cartridge. But I was a little deceived maybe with R17 as I kept working up looking for the traditional pressure signs -- flattened primers with cratering, ejector marks, stiff bolt lifts, etc., until I got to 3200 fps with the long 140-gr TTSX. I thought then this is just too fast so I worked down to 3050-3075 fps with great accuracy. I've read that some of the traditional signs occur long after high pressure is reached but it seems intuitive to me that even with R17 (or any powder) high pressures should result in a stiff bolt lift which I never experienced with these loads.

The loading manuals go light on the 284 (at least in my opinion/experience). Probably because it started out in the Model 100 and 88 (88 no problem, as the semi autos have).
R17 has been a winner for me in the 284 and the 300wsm.
jmho
Tim

I've read that RL-17 with its smooth pressure curve, won't show pressure signs as quickly as some other powders. It's been said, when you DO see pressure signs with RL-17, you're WAY over where you need to be.

No pressure testing by me, just passing it on, just saying...

DF

I keep and eye on the chrony also.
I don't pursue pressure signs, I just watch for them and react if they show.
I interpolate data when I have multiple sources and personal experience to work with.
One complete case separation was enough for me. And I was well within book data. Could be I made a mistake, but I do a lot of double checking when loading ammo. soooooo???
Tim

Same here. For hunting only,I'm still on the same 50 pc I started with almost 15yrs ago. I have some more brass if and when I will ever need it.

You're an adult, so you can spend your $$ any way you want. If you believe that the 284 is significantly superior to the 7mm-08, by all means, go with the 284.

The fact is that the only current factory load is Winchester/Olin's 150 grain PP that is launched at 2,860. Comparing Winchester/Olin 284 and 308 150 grain factory loads shows that the 150 grain 284 PP has slightly more muzzle velocity than the 150 grain 308 PP, 2,860 vs. 2,820, and a flatter trajectory due to a bullet with higher BC, but the difference is not significant.

You're right about the 284 having panache and if panache is an important component in your decision hierarchy, then the 284 is clearly the right cartridge for you.

The 256 Newton is my panache cartridge. No factory ammo, cases take time to form, the 6.5-06 is both faster, but not significantly, and easier, significantly, but it just doesn't have the panache of a Newton.

I own and load for 7-08, 7-08AI, and 284 win - all in bolt action rifles. Have for several years. You can safely get about 50 fps over a std 7-08 by going AI. You can safely get another 70-100 fps over that by going to a 284 win. I think MD is being a little conservative with his 4%, but that is close. Based on my experience with all 3 cartridges, I personally like the 7-08AI best. It seems to be a very efficient cartridge. Even moreso than the std, and is close enough to the 284 win/280 rem that it is moot. My wife took a decent 5x5 bull at 318 yds with a 7-08AI using 140 gr TSX in 2009. MV was around 2950 fps. One can safely and easily add 100 fps to that in a 284 win. But it takes about 8-10 more grains of powder to get that. All 3 will do anything I will ever demand from a cartridge and then some.

Aside from the fact that this thread is about the 7-08 NOT the 308 the only response I have is:

WHO on earth is shooting/hunting FACTORY 284 Win ammo?

I am shooting factory 284 ammo because I found 180 rounds of it at $30 per box. It was the only way to get brass at the time. But saying that, once it's all gone that will be the last of the factory stuff for me. The 150 gr PP works well in the eastern woods.

By chance I rebarreled a M77 Ruger tang safety from 6mm Rem to 284 win 30 years ago. I have the late Harry Lawson to thank for the suggestion to try the 284 win. The rifle was a perfect match for this cartridge never showed any feeding issues cycling the bolt fast or slow. (see Charlie Sisk's video on proper feeding)

Over the years I wore out three barrels. Killed many elk, coues wt and javelina not to mention jackrabbits.

When a friend got a Ultralight arms model 20 with a 3.1" magazine, I decided that I had to have it too. My gunsmith, Joe Reid, at Lawson's lengthed the magazine to 3.1". My OAL is 3.050"

In recent years switched to heavier higher BC bullets. I use moly which seems to help lessen fouling in the rem takeoff barrels I rechamber. Here are some of the loads:

OAL of approx. 3.050" Winchester brass fed 210 match primer barrel is 23". ALL bullets mentioned are moly coated.



168 VLD and H4350
53 gr 2755
53.5 2785
54 2808
54.5 2840 most accurate

162 A-max and H4350

54.5 gr 2720
55 2750
55.5 2780 most accurate

----------------------------
168 VLD and RL-17

53 gr 2816
54 2860
55 2940
56 2985 most accurate
57 3025

168 Berger classic hunters and RL-17

55.5 gr 3000
56 3015
56.5 3032 most accurate
57 3050 over the top

162 A-max and RL-17

56gr 3035
57 3060
58 3115 most accurate

160 accubond and RL-17 testing temperature was 92 degrees

55 gr 2970
56 3020
57 3060 most accurate

------------------


Found an excellent load that worked well for our warmer part of the year with 150 nosler ballistic tip and 57 gr of RL-17 velocity 3100 fps

------------------------
Just ordered a reamer as I now do the work myself. Looking forward to putting barrel #4 on this old rig.

My initial post pointed out that if you shoot factory ammo, the 284's performance makes it nothing more than an expensive to purchase and expensive to shoot 308. At least, that is how I interpret the data on Winchester/Olin's ballistic tables.

I've never met another 284 shooter at the range or in the field, but based on the number of people who regularly ask to buy 125 grain Winchester/Olin factory ammo from my horde of ten cases, quite a few Savage 99 and Winchester 88/100 owners are shooting factory ammo.

A 162 amax at 3100fps is nothing to sneeze at...very nice. It seems a 284 on longer, strong action is a good way to go. That kind of speed is right there with the 280ai (looking at nosler's data).

I've never had any of Noslers data live up to their numbers. 3,100 162's would be a cruise missile.

Understood...granted I've never played with a 280ai either, just day dreaming about a faster 7mm than the one I have.

It's also important to always remember nosler's data is in a 26" barrel.

Maybe longer!!

I had to fight hard to pass on the 280AI. Went old skool 7RM.

Easy, Peasy in a 7 RM (24" bll.)

I have found that 280 performance was best found in a 280. From function to feeding it makes a whole lot more sense. In every respect.....

W

Fingers crossed!