Is a primer leak always caused by excess pressure? I had a rifle rebarreled to 6.5 creedmoor so I've started handloading for it recently. I used noslers data to work a load with 130 accubond. The max load for H4350 is 43gr, fed 210, 2865 fps with 24" barrel. I have a 22" barrel and it took 42.5gr, 210M primer to get an average of 2740 fps. I bumped the load up to 42.7 gr, but switched to WLR primers and the avg was 2775 over 11 shots (2760-2789). Out of the 11 shots 2 primers leaked/pierced, I've never had this happen in 16 years of handloadinig and I didnt think I was getting into over max pressures. I just recently upgraded from an old shooting chrony beta to a prochrono. The other 9 primers look "normal" to me. Could the primer switch have caused a pressure spike. I think the velocities are accurate because the groups at different distances are close to my ballistic program. Both the primers have pin holes near the edge. This was the 4th firing on this brass, some had heavier charges than others working loads for different bullets.

It could be the primers, there are some bad WLR lots out there.

Bad Winchester primer lot numbers as collected by John Barsness:

CLL555G
DAL594G
DFL717G
DHL766G
DNL 837G
DNL836G
EAL234G
GDL225G
GEL250G
CAL401G

Mathman
thanks, I just checked and my lot # is EAL018G. When I first got the rifle back I ran a box of the federal match 140 amax ammo over the prochrono and it avg around 2650 from the 22" and its rated at 2700 from 24" so I have some confidence in the prochrono.

I have had a few of these primers leak and not with high book loads.

When using CCI i have not had this problem.

Lot numbers?

Yup, it's your Winchester primers. I have about 5K of WLR that do this, no other brand I've used does it. Will have to check on the lot number.

It's different than a loose primer pocket; if you deprime them and look closely, you'll see that the leaking primers are actually cracked up the side of the cup, and high pressure gas leaked through the crack.

When I ran into this with WLP primers in the 10mm a few years ago, Winchester sent me a gift card to buy more Winchester primers. I've encountered it enough with different lots though to wonder if it's common to all Winchester large primers, regardless of lot #.

Yondering,
you are right. I deprimed then cleaned the cups up with some steel wool and there is a crack running up the inside to the pin hole. Now the question, is the crack caused by excess pressure or a problem with the metal. I dont think that load is above max safe pressure at 2775 fps in 22" barrel. I think its approaching it but shouldnt be above.

I had primer leaks such as those pictured in .30-06 loads for an M1 Garand that go about 48 to 49 Kpsi.

They did not leak in the .45-70 loads I had put together that were loaded to the 28 Kpsi region, but I changed them out.

Now the Standard Deviation in those loads have went to hell with the new primers I used.

I suspect the material for the primer cups was not propery annealed prior to forming.

Winchester's displayed some real shoddy QC as of late, with inconsistent brass and leaky primers.

I wonder how they've been doing with the QC on their powder and bullets?

Now I have 2 divots in my bolt face from the leaks so I think I will avoid this lot of primers. I bought 300 of them and only part way through the first pack. I'll go back to the fed 210.

I had the same thing with some "starting" loads in a . 270 and WLR's. I tried some even lower charge weights and still got those little pinholes. About that time I started seeing other reports of primer leaks so I finally figured out what the problem was. I was really questioning my reloading procedures 'til then.

I have had a similar problem w Winchester primers. Haven't had it happen with fed or CCI primers. No more winchester primers for me.

Last year I had primers that looked exactly like that. WLR large rifle. Mine were not on "list", but I sent them back to Winchester. Stress cracks. They paid for a new bolt and new primers. Mine were starting loads.

I had Winchester primers do the same to me in the fall.

Anyone who had this problem please post the lot number if you can.

I've still got about three thousand WLR primers, but damned if I'll use them. Not listed lot numbers but I'm not going to take the chance again.

The lot # from the ones I had: DAL594G


Thread:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/9603533/What_causes_this?#Post9603533

I had similar problems with Winchester primers cutting my bolt faces. Winchester has yet to pay for any of my damaged bolts but sends me a "coupon" to replace the primers once I send them in. Unfortunately I purchased the primers when the "shortage" was in effect so was stuck with the amount I purchased. I still need to go through them and see if I have any of the bad lots or need to add a few to the list.

lastaround,

The list of lot numbers is by no means comprehensive. It was what resulted from a Google search of reports on the Internet.

The one thing the search did NOT find was any similar reports of leaky Winchester Small Rifle primers.

So about what vintage are these leaky primers? I ask because I stumbled on a pretty good stash of Winchester primers, 35k to be exact. All of mine are the old orange and white boxes. I hope they were produced before things went south.

Lucky bugger!

I believe those are before the troubles.

Winchester primers seem to be made from softer brass/smaller size, just notice how much easier they seat than CCI.

Knocking on wood here! Three or so years ago I purchased two 5000 round flats of WLR's. I use these in 22-250, 220 Swift, 243,257 Roberts,270,308, 3006, and my M1's and M14SA. Not a problem so far. Only a couple hundred left. Lot number is WHL101G. The second unopened flat of 5K is lot number XML203G I hope it is a problem free as the first. I also have an unopened 5K flat of WLRM lot number HKL393G.
I purchased several hundred new factory primed WW 264 and WW 338 cases here on the Campfire Classifieds. I have used maybe 100 of those with no problems yet. I hope my luck holds.
Back in the mid 80's when I was heavily involved in High Power Silhouette shooting Remington had this same problem with their 9 1/2 primers. Several competitors had their bolts replaced by Remington due to this problem of pitting the bolt face. At the time Remington stated it was due to faulty material that the primer cups were made from. Lets hope this problem is soon rectified!

Unless you absolutely know what alloy, and hardness the cups are built to, then no.
These rounds are Winchester primers. They were neither "flat", nor leaky, nor anything else.

JB, we've got a few thousand of the WSR's too. I haven't seen any reports of problems with them either, but after my Cooper got a messed up bolt face (WLR) I just quit using Winchester primers at all. Probably wasn't necessary, but just me. I found some CCI's and Federals and have had no problems with either. I think Winchester's problems started when they went to the un-plated versions, but that too is just my opinion.

Add lot number EAL008G to the list of bad WLR primers. have had 4 or 5 pin hole on me the last couple of weeks. just sent email with pictures to Winchester, will post when they respond.

I had the same issue and have a full box (1000) from the same lot that I hope they will replace. I emailed them on 05/21 but have yet to get a reply from Winchester.

I too have been working up loads for new rifles with CCI 200's.

Loads that I had that were very consistent, Standard Deviation-wise, are not doing as good with the CCI 200s, but my bolt-faces thank me every day.

The WWs seemed to be more consistent, but what use are they if they eat your rifle?

WLR more consistent with which powders?

I got slightly better accuracy with CCI 200’s than WLR with Varget and RL 15 in a 308 Win. The CCI’s seem to seat a little tighter in the RP cases too. I haven’t even tried the WLR’s in any new load development.

I’ve wondered what switching from WLR to the CCI 200 would do in a bigger case like 270 Win (H4831SC) or 9.3X62 (RL15) or if there theoretically may be inconsistent ignition at really cold temps. I tried WLRM in the 9.3 once and groups doubled in size over the standard WLR – I guess hotter doesn’t mean better.

Both 4198s, H322, IMR and H4895, AA2495. Mostly in .45-70.

I've reshot all the loads that I used the WLRs in, and Standard Deviations opened up with all of them, some to the point I suspect light conditions and want to reshoot again, though one low-pressure load in the .45-70 may have had other contributors, also.

The chamber pressure wasn't enough to seal the case in the chamber and I had soot all the way back to the rim and one hang-fire. In spite of that, it would group good at 100 yards and I had no problems hitting a smallish gong at 150 yards with a peep sight and Ashley front post. I suspect the seal issue would be addressed by annealing the cases, which are Starline and they suggest in their literature to anneal for low-pressure loads. I had also shot another charge, it's consistency was improved with the increase in pressure.

In my Garand, the only change I made with the load was from a WLR to a CCI200, Standard Deviation opened up but not to a large degree. I have since acquired some #34s and I'll see how they do. I do want to gather more data, as I feel like, right now, I have too few samples.

Accuracy didn't seem to be affected, and slightly higher SDs aren't going to hurt at they typical ranges I hunt.

One load in a bolt .30-06 and with AA2495/CCI 200 was in line with previous loads in other rifles at that performance level, though I had never fired this particular rifle/load combo with WLRs.

I've always had good results with a case full of 4831 and the CCI 200 in a 270.

Bad lots:

CLL555G
DAL594G
DFL717G
DHL766G
DNL 837G
DNL836G
EAL234G
GDL225G
GEL250G
CAL401G

I'm adding GFL284G to the list.

This afternoon I had one split up the side and burn a divot in the bolt face. The load was a start charge too, no over pressure involved. Easy bolt lift, chrono reading the right number.

I bought 2 bricks and both have this problem. My bolt face looks awful! Switching to feds.

Winchester has never responded to any attempt of mine on the primer problem I had.

I've gotten some bad WLR primers. They would leak with moderate loads. They got relegated to light cast bullet loads, and they seem to do fine for that. I don't start with WLR in my regular load development anymore because of that experience. I only lightly pocked a boltface, but it pissed me off.

I too have been waiting for a reply since 05/21. I'm a little irritated that I haven't received anything but the automated reply. If anyone has a phone number please post it; I could only find online contact info.

This lot in question is CCL435G, and I still have a full case (1000) that I don't want to risk using. Besides a couple misfires, I also had the classic pin hole leak that has been described. Here's what one looked like.

Well, maybe I'm slightly luckier than you.

They responded, called me on the phone, asked me what a replacement bolt for my Garand costs, then sent an email a couple of days later saying the check's in the mail.

That was months ago.....

Another problem, but the guy says they are taking care of him:

http://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31063