How do these two compare? Both shoot well out of my 257 wby at 90+, with good speed (3400+ with 110 Accubond).

Im more worried about losing speed in the lower temps during hunting season then anything else. I live and hunt in Arizona so I'm not talking 0, or anything crazy like that... Likely shots taken will not even be below freezing.

FWIW, I have used R22 for a couple years with no known issues. I like to tinker so I tried 7828 and it did really well. Both powders are locally available (I have about 2# 7828 and something like 4+# R22, so thats a non issue).

I like 7828 in the 7mm mag i live in pa.I cronied my loads from when it was 90degree down to about zero and i lost between 50 to 60 fps i dont like rl powder at all because of the lot to lot differents.

My .270 lost about 70FPS from 80 degrees to 30 degrees with R22 if that helps.

I've found RL22 to be very temperature sensitive in a 7mm rem mag, so much so that I've quit using it. 7828 hasn't been as bad from my experience. I believe RL23 was made to be similar to 22 but with better temp stability.

Unless you are shooting targets and splitting hairs, the temp sensitivity will make virtually no difference at normal hunting ranges. All powder has some degree of sensitivity. If I was a bench shooter, I may be concerned, but no animal every cared that the Re22 was temp sensitive in my 7 mag.

Develop the load when it is warm and then sight in again before you hunt in the cold. Non-issue.

Re 23 is a good replacement for 22, by the way. I don't care about the sensitivity, but it works well.

That's interesting Crow. I haven't seen it in my
7mmRemMagnificent/RL22 (first powder I try, usually the last) loads. I usually do load workup here in the late winter to early spring before it gets too hot. Temps are generally in the 55-75* range. Last November in the TX Panhandle was particularly cold with temps in the 'teens-40* range while we were deer hunting. I had no POI changes out to 800 yards at all, as the CDS dials were still spot on.

Afternoon J G:

I've read your similar comment before and that's interesting to me. I DON'T doubt you but I also read MANY posts including Mule Deer's per RL 22. THEY, report noticeable decrease in vel in very cold weather. MAYBE colder than you hunt in, I don't know.

I've NOT bought 1 lb. of Rl22 and have not shot 1 grain of it so this thread & idea is of interest to me.

I really don't understand the different experiences with that powder. MAYBE ? the particular velocity/pressure envelope or bracket ? MAYBE something pertaining to EXACT pressure differences ? I really don't know.

IF I knew that Rl22 would be temp stable for me, I'd certainly use it. OTOH I'd hate to spend the money for it and then have a noticeable change in COLD weather performance.


You got any ideas ?

I hope M D will report in but I'm not sure he will.

Jerry

I wish I did have some ideas jwall, but I don't, and I've not enough experience in extreme temps to preach my experience with RL22 as the gospel. I do know that I've shot it enough now, in the country/environment that I hunt, to know that temp sensitivity isn't a factor, as I'm not the least bit worried if velocity varies by 50-75fps. I'm more interested in POI.

Maybe MD can educate us a bit, as you said.

I've had good results with H-4350 with 140 gr. bullets in the 7-RM, and it's an Extreme Series.

With 168's, I like RL-25. Not sure how it compares to RL-22 regarding heat sensitivity.

Some use H-1000 with good results and it's an Extreme Series.

DF

Also remember that the 7mm Rem Mag has a long, well documented history of random pressure excursions; for no known reason.

The "Extreme" powders properties are NOT universal properties either. They may or may not be such, in a situation not designed for. Where they ARE designed to work, often times aren't statistically different than a competitor; and this comes directly from Hodgdon's own testing.

I think you're right. Temp sensitivity and other properties of certain powders change with different applications. So, it gets harder to make over-reaching, blanket statements. Guess that's what makes Loony business interesting, keeps Loonies guessing and arguing...

DF

Thanks J G

YEP, 50-75 fps is small potatoes out of 3100 +
P O I is most important.

I'm keeping an eye on this thread because I'm interested.

Jerry

The 500 yard POI was about 14" lower as I recall. It is a fast, accurate powder, but I'm sticking with H4831 for the same applications now.

You may get less shift, but doubt you'll ever get NO shift.

DF

Where Is Mule Deer ? when you need him.













? coffee & donuts with the cops ? <G>

Dem Yanks, what hunts in da real cold, gots more of a problem with temp. sens. than we-ens down here, where 30* be cold...

DF

Here's the results I got with RL22 using same lots of bullet, powder and primers. I did use Federal brass with the 75 degree firing instead of PMC with the other two.

Load was 130 grain Sierra Pro Hunter over 60.0 grns with a Federal 210. The rounds were put outside and the rifle in the garage overnight for the cold firings. Temps went into the negative single digit/teens when I fired the 1 degree results.

75 degree- average 3065, low 3051, high 3079
29 degree - average 2951, low 2930, high 2969
1 degree - average 2892, low 2867, high 2911

I'm thinking of using the same PMC brass to fire at the warm temp to so I get rid of the brass variable.

That is unacceptable.. .

It is to me as well.



From 3065>>>2892 (2900) would HAVE to affect POI.

These results are similar to others and why I have avoided Rl 22 so far.

My mind is still open and I'm listening.

I've been a long time RL22 user in a lot but since my current jug is about gone I'm going to try a new jug of 23. 23 is available and as easy to get so I don't see any downside to switching. Price is the same as well.

I've used 22 in the 7mm WSM, Rem Mag, 270 WSM and a handful of others. I've not had problems so far but I figure it won't hurt to swap up to a more resistant powder.

Been reloading for 30 odd years burned enough imr 4350 to tell you it would loose an average 100 fps from 70 degrees to the low teens for deer hunting in central wi,really not a fan of imr 7828 burnt one lb testing in my 300 bee Vangard best groups hovered around 1 inch not impressed haven't tried it since, but RL/22 wow that has kiked tale in my 7Mag 25/06 tested some top end reloads in the 25/06 in the mid-teens for temp ,and they chronograph within feet of each other mid-70s to the mid-teens like 17 degrees cold , so no I'm not buying into the negative hype about RL-22 sorry proved it to myself that's enough for me,tried h4831, against RL-22 again no contest RL-22 kiked butt. Wish you all southerners could spare some RL-23 n RL-26 I'd sure like to burn some , almost forgot RL-22 kiks h4831 in my 270wcf hands down , tite groups to 3 shots 3/8s c to c ,carry on😉

T A G -

Well.........

When I did my test, it was with same lots of components and only thing that was different was the brass I'd used at 75 degrees. The ammo and rifle were left outside overnight so it cooled. Did you do the same when you tested or just take it all from a house out, shoot it at different temps and decide it didn't show much difference?

Don't get me wrong, RL22 is a favorite powder of mine in the 270 and it's a top performer in velocity and accuracy for me. I've not had issues with it hunting and have shot bucks in sub zero weather without issue, but that doesn't change the fact that it does lose velocity...at least in the 270. I can't speak for the 25-06.

Well this may be a bit off the wall but two powders I use a lot are W760 and Winchester Magnum Rifle powder. (WMR) Both have a reputation of being rather temp sensitive. I use WMR in the .270, .280 Rem. and .300 Win. Mag. New to the .280 so no cold weather work with it yet. Hopefully this coming December when I do an elk hunt.
Anyway, I load and test in Tucson's hot summers and when I have hinted the Kaibab or area 1 for elk, loss of velocity hasn't seemed to be much of a problem. Some of my work up for the .280 is with IMR7828SSC so if I find a satisfactory load I'll taking that one for sure.
Another powder I use is Re15 for my .35 Whelen which is my usual elk rifle these days.
Rifles I have taken to Raton New Mexico that have shot well with W760, Re15 and WMR have shown no apparent velocity or accuracy loss when checking the sights at the NRA's Whittington Center. I won't have any final answer on IMR7828SSC until December 28 or 29 if I do end up using the .280. So far it's proving to be a little stubborn on telling me what it likes. I'm thinking it's probably the bullet though rather than the powder. I'm trying to get a load with the Nosler 150 gr. ABLR and not only does the .280 not seem to like it but neither do three 7x57s I've tried them in.
I'm thinking that 7828 probably will work OK if your rifle likes it. I won't be able to make an informed comment until early on into the New Year.
Paul B.

I had loaded 100 rds for my 25/06 cronographed them in 70 degrees and a couple months later tried the same reloads out of the same bag ,no I didn't leave my rifle out over nite ,at 17 degrees its very cool my time out side was about 45 minutes good enough for my test. Rifle, reloads, we're all the same only the outside temp was different. For years all I used was imr 4350 with was accurate but threw cronographing found it would loose 100 Fps so I'd adjust my site in using the lower cronographed reading. For my hunting zero.