Where is all the H4350?

My 30.06 will put 3 165gr Accubonds into one ragged hole at 2,875 fps with it.

I had 2 lbs on backorder at cabelas. They cancelled my order without letting me know. But now they show it as not available to order, period. Nobody else has it either(locally or online that I can find). Seems like pretty much every other powder made(ever Ramshot!)can be found somewhere.

Is it all going to the military or what?

Leftybolt

I've been doing a lot of load work with my 30-06 recently and there are quite a few powders that will work really well in your 30-06.I'm guessing your loading about 58.0grs with that 165gr AB.I tried all three of the 4350 powders and the results were very similar.Accurate Arms 4350 is a great choice if you cannot find the H-4350.I also liked the IMR-4350 too,but the AA-4350 overall gave me the best results of the three 4350's.Here are some of my loads for the 165-168gr bullets.These all shot an inch or less in my rifle.
59.0grs H-4350
58.5grs AA-4350
58.5grs IMR-4350
52.5grs AA-4064
60.0grs Hunter
56.0grs Big Game
63.0grs Reloader-22

Add IMR4451 to the possibilities. I've been switching all my former H4350 loads over to 4451 for a while now, and so far it's worked just as well in every load.

Thanks for the report. I'm about out of H4350 so I'll give 4451 a try.

I sure wish the new Enduron powders were priced like the other IMR/Hodg powders.

A bird in the hand I guess......

I have about 1 1/2 pounds of H4350, but I'm thinking about switching to a different powder for my 30/06 loads when I begin doing more loading this spring. I was thinking of going with Ramshot Big Game. The first bullet I have to test out is the 150 grain Nosler etip. Western Powder's data shows 56.6 grains of Big Game with the 150 grain etip for a muzzle velocity of 2,995. Would the IMR 4451 be a better choice?

I just want to get away from the H4350 since it looks like it may never be available again.

I get some amazing velocities in my 30-06 with Big Game.With 150gr Nosler BT,I got 3100fps with 58.0grs.56.0grs with a 168gr Nosler BT,I'm getting 3000fps.Accuracy is good too.No pressure signs.

bdan68,

I also use Big Game with 150's in the .30-06, and have for over 15 years now. It not only results in high velocities and fine accuracy, but is pretty darn temperature resistant in that combination.

It's around but not readily available. When you do find it expect to pay a premium.

I've read some past posts here on Enduron, specifically IMR 4451. I see where Mule Deer has switched over to it. My question is whether the lack of H4350 is a temporary glitch or is it being phased out? If it is on the "chopping block" then I will definitely switch over even though it has proven not to be as insensitive as Extreme. So Mule Deer and others, is there any "official" word from the manufacturer? I am at "decision time" as the 8 pounder is getting rather light.

Supply and Demand
Hurricanes in the Gulf
Seasonal Switch-over of Formulation
Chinese
Government Interference on Drilling

Okay then, Ramshot Big Game sounds good, plus I like that it's cheaper than the IMR 4451. Cabelas has the Big Game for $26.99 and the 4451 is $32.99. Not really that much money but if the Big Game works just as good why not save $6.00? I have a Cabela's store only 30 minutes away so I think I'll pick some up today.

Well I just got back from the Lacey, Washington Cabela's store. They did not have Ramshot Big Game. I had seen on gunbot that it was in stock at Cabela's but I guess it probably is somewhere but not in Lacey. Of the Ramshot powders they only had TAC.

I'm going to check to see if I can order it online and pick it up at the store with no charge for shipping. Most things you can do that, but I'm not sure if it applies to powder. I did pick up a pound of Re-26 for $27.99 because I've been wanting to try it with my 270 Win.

H414 is a another great powder for the 30.06 and a 165 grain bullet!

The plant where they make it isn't far from where I live in southern NSW. As far as I know they're still churning it out.

Perhaps Hodgdon want to get out of it and replace it with the Enduron line?

The Aus govt is pretty good at stuffing up good export programs so don't preclude that as a factor...

I'm in the same boat with 2 pounds left. I think our ship is sinking...... I wish I knew more about the enduron powders too. Particularly why it has copper fouling reducers and if it is more harsh on the barrel...and why the fu ck is 4451 so much more expensive than H4350?????

Yeah, it's temp sensitive as fu ck too. These are the temps I shoot in:
Bull elk 3 years ago:


Targets in the summer time:

Yeah, that's why I didn't want to use H414, and I do have a pound of it. Found out I can't order the Big Game from Cabela's without paying the $20 hazardous fee. So not sure what I'll do. I may have to go with the IMR4451. They had plenty at Cabela's. I just didn't really want to pay $33/pound.

Thanks for all the info fellas.

If they are phasing it out, so be it, I'll probably go the Enduron route. But, why would a company shoot themselves in the foot by stopping production of one of the most successful powders ever created without an explanation? I figured somebody here would know.

Leftybolt

A local gun shop that keeps a pretty healthy amount of powder in stock told me the other day that he hasn't received H4350 in 9 months. He was the owner and does all the ordering and he said he doesn't know what's going on.

On the flip side I've found Reloader 17 to be a great alternative. Velocities that can't be touched with H4350 and very accurate. Also readily available!

BSA I shoot H414 in 15 degree to 90 degree plus humidity without issue.

Haven't got down in the negative digits using it, so I can't say how it would affect the performance?

Oh oh, first Russian hacking and now Aussie interference! I see an international conspiracy developing!

I bought two pounds today. Maybe I better get some more? I really like i.

Maybe MD can check with them at SHOT Show?

I use to use it in my 25-06's. Switched over a couple of years back and never looked for it again.

Nope, because I haven't attended SHOT in several years. It's grown to be point where it's almost impossible to get any real work done.

This is interesting. I just started load development on my 7-08 and tried a few different powders in it before bringing out my jug of H4350. Found a load that was producing tight little groups and giving me nice velocity. Went online to start checking where I can pick up some H4350.......

Figures, I have not used it much in the last 3-4 years so I have been out of the loop on the availability. Some other forums I read said all the 6.5 guys were buying it up?

Either way, I am not going to fight for it. Same exact thing happened with Varget about 4-5 years ago. I found a good load for it and all of a sudden it was no where to be found. I gave up and found other powders to fit my needs. They had a bunch of it sitting on the shelf yesterday......

I picked up some 4451 to test with. I hope to find close to the same results.

I wonder how well the 4451 would work in a 7 REM mag? I have never loaded anything but IMR 4350 in the many 7's I have owned. Reloader 22 does really well for me in my 300 Win mag. I have been threatening to try it. The young guys say IMR 4350 is an old man's powder. Hard to stop using a powder that works so well for you.

I've found that IMR 7977 works great in my 7MM Rem Mag(Win. 70). Velocities(chronographed by me) and accuracy were both better than IMR7828(my former "go to" powder for 7mm) in my rifle pushing Barnes 140gr T-TSXs. Tried Reloader 26 to no avail.
IMR7977 produced 4 shots into 0.6" groups at 100yds; vel. = 3,100fps with none of the usual "high pressure" signs(heavy bolt lift, flat primers, shiny marks on the case head...). Not exactly temperature extremes but two different days on the range at 30 deg. and 60 deg. produced slightly under 0.6" and velocities were unchanged. I stopped there since accuracy was so good but probably could have pushed it a bit more(but why?).

Leftybolt

They didn't discontinue it...there is a list of real world reasons about as long as your arm as to why nearly all ADI powders are in short supply.

But suffice to say that they presented enough hurdles that Hodgdon asked IMR to develop the Enduron powders to provide a comparable product with no supply limitations.

Enduron powder is a new technology and an excellent alternative.

Sometimes a little nitro just adds some spice.

I tried both IMR 7977 and 4451 this spring with 154 gr Hornady Spire Points. They both shot great but I wasn't able to chronograph the load for some reason. If you have some it's worth a try.

The move of PRS competitors from .308 to 6.5 is why Varget is now in supply and H4350 is not.

yep..a few years ago it was Varget..........

now H4350

I was visiting with a friend Monday. He was almost out of H4350 so he picked up a pound of 4451 to try in his 6.5 Creed.

The same excellent accuracy, and it had less of a speed drop shooting down to 12 degrees for him.

I have a couple pounds of H4350 left for my 7-08s and am thinking about trying the 4451, but I know they love H4895 so maybe I'll just stay with that...

My long winded way of saying another suggestion for IMR 4451.

Was his H4350 the "Extreme" version or pre-extreme?

I just saw this. I sure do hope that people don't start liking 4451 to the point of it being hard to get....

Interview with Chris Hodgdon

I had loaded some 30-06 and 375 Ruger rounds with 4451 a while back and finally got to the range this morning. Based on this limited experience, I am sold on 4451. Accuracy with 165 Hornady's in the 06 and 300gr. A-Frames in the 375 was outstanding. Did not chrono them yet. I had always used H-4350 in these loads before with good results.

Think I'll stock up on the new stuff.

Most of the demand from competitive precision rifle shooters for H4350's claims of extremism must and shall be channeled to IMR-4451, simply because H4350 essentially doesn't exist any more.

I think it does exist. If you read what Mr. Hodgdon said its really just a shipment issue. I think they will continue to sell it, but the guys with deeper pockets than us will keep snatching it up quicker than we can. Which, is gonna be those competitive precision rifle shooters. I don't blame them, if I did competitive stuff like that I would for sure always snatch up what I can when I can. The average guy like most of us only goes to look for it when we need it.

I saw this happen with Varget. Its back on the shelves now. But I do not doubt 4451 will start to gain popularity and not have lots always sitting on the shelf simply because as people are "forced" to try it in lieu of H4350, there will be more info available to read.

If it is not as good as H4350 then we will know that also. But everything I have been reading says its gonna be. I'm testing some myself in just a few hours.

Sure wish one of you guys with a couple pounds of H4350 would go try some 4451 and then sell me your H4350.😁

Leftybolt

In playing with my new 6.5 Creedmoor I wanted to try H4350 as it had all the buzz. I eventually found a pound. What I have experienced is that RL17 provides better accuracy and slightly more velocity. RL16 provides equal accuracy and much greater velocity. RL16 is also very consistent from 70 to 12 deg. I no longer care if H4350 is available.

I switched to Varget in my 6.5 x 47's and get as just as good results as H4350. I have a load at 2765 for one of them and 2815 for the other gun. Both with a 140 Hybrid. No need to look for H4350 again....

Picked up a rationed pound at a local emporium. Owner said all the 6.5 Creed shooters are causing temporary shortage because it works so well.
I'll just score a bit here and there and add it to the 8#er. Hate to change up at this stage.

A while back I made up a "lot" of varget that way.

I just bought 3 pounds at a local farm store that carries reloading supplies on Saturday.

I guess I got lucky. Loaded up on H4350 back when the first big hoarding spree took hold. Bout all I load with it is the 180 grain 30/06. Fantastic velocity and itty bitty groups. Never figured it would end up on the chopping block. Just bought it for a middle of the road powder,and IMR 4350 was already in short supply. Ill never understand why things move in these circles. I'm thinking the manufacturers can groom sales of their latest and greatest propellants by creating shortages of staple powders. I'm 55 and if all I do is check zero and hunt big game,I'm good till the end I figure.

I have quite a bit of 4350, but I just picked up a new 6.5 creed F-class rifle and was hoping to run through quite a bit of H4350 this summer. I am torn if I should shoot up my last 8 pounds of H4350 while hopeing for more or buy an 8er or two of IMR 4451 for the Creedmoor.

Same boat here but only have 2 lbs but picked up a 6.5 Creed today. Thinking of using H414 possibly or Reloader 17/15 if I can't find anymore 4350?

Maybe try Ramshot Big Game for your 6.5 Creedmoor. I just bought a couple pounds which I'm hoping will work as well as H4350 did in my 30/06.

Hunter is a better choice than Big Game, IMO, which is not to say that Big Game won't work well.

Powder Valley has H 4350 in stock

Had, past tense.

Still shows it in stock added 5 pounds to my cart proceeded to checkout still in stock.

At least 2 local stores had it in stock today.
Ronnie

PM sent.

Leftybolt

I bought 4 pounders here locally over the last two week. LGS said patience and perseverance is your friend. Fyi, I am paying $30.
Saves me from converting to the IMR#'d stuff.

Picked up 5 pounds of H4350 yesterday, $30.49 per.


YMMV


41

I have and 8 pound jug setting in my powder cabinet. Let me know so I can send it out.


NOT

Dad's wholesale in Denver had 1 pounders of H4350 at the Tanner Gun Show in Denver last weekend. I did not see 8 pounders nor did I check his price.

Is that the eight pound jug I traded you for 231?

That's funny. I'd hang on to that chit with a death grip. WTF are they not making this chit. I sure as fu ck haven't seen any on the shelves for years (4 years at least)!!!!!!

That's what I'm wondering.

I agree. I'll also suggest to all you creedmoor shooters to switch to 4451...

Amen brother. I heard RL16 is good from -320 degrees to 560 degrees. You guys make the switch to that powder, it's damn good chit maynard...

YEP

Are you guys just switching over using your same weights, or are you working up loads? Captdavid

I started using 4451 pretty early on, at first getting three pounds for testing, then liking it enough to buy an 8-pounder maybe 6-8 months later.

There was a little difference in burn-rate between the two batches, not uncommon in new powders, enough to result in about 50 fps difference in .257 Roberts loads with 100-grain bullets. I eventually mixed the two batches, resulting in velocities about 10-15 fps less than with the unmixed 8-pounder.

This mixed 4451 turned out to be slightly faster than what's left of my last batch of H4350, but not much. A good example is my Kilimanjaro 7x57, where I loaded 46.0 grains of H4350 with 160-grain Sierra GameKings for right around 2700 fps. Had to drop the charge with 4451 to 45.5 grains to match that.

Have had similar results so far in other rounds, so obviously the two powders are so close in burn-rate that different lots would probably overlap.

Lots of good powders out there, it's hard to try something else when the powder I'm using is sub MOA.

Well, how did the H4350 vs. IMR4451 turn out? I am in need of 4350 and its not easy to find! I am trying to sort out several different calibers, searching for the perfect recipe. At the moment, it is a short bbl 7mm-08 and then its off to a 338-06. The 4350 has always been a good baseline to start from! I am interested in the results you have with 4451 as this could be a real game changer!


B King

No sense in messing with something that works.

I bought four pounders in the last month here locally. LGS powder guy said be vigilant and buy when you can. I almost decided to switch to 4451 but actually, who can guarantee that powder will not experience any shortages either?

Unless you are running low and none can be found... I'm getting down there on my H4350, I may be looking into some of the substitutes. JB's posts have me interested in that 4451...

John, you getting similar accuracy with this powder as well?

A powder dealer reserved 5 tables at our gun show coming up this weekend. I asked about H4350 and he said he has it and he has 8 pounders. He's holding 2 for me...should keep me for a while. Maybe it's becoming more available.

Dennis.

Yes.

I have bought 4# of H 4350 here in AK in the last 2 weeks, so if its here it has to be around.

Last week, I picked up a few pounds of 4350. They get it in somewhat regularly and have an 8#er reserved when they get it again. Should hold me over for a while.

I did try a few pet loads with 4451, wasn't overly impressed, but i'll keep working with it. Did have a few decent groups, but nothing like 4350. I'll keep testing and see what happens. Most elevation was good which I like, just more windage than usual, but might have been me or the wind...

Not 4350 ,but I have found some of my best loads when I had to switch components against my will. The shortages caused a lot of problems with some of my regular powder supplies. I improvised a few loads and found some better loads in the process.

I have purposely never tried H4350 in my .260, 7x57 and .243 because it is so hard to get here.