Let me start out being completely blunt - I'm not new to reloading having done it for a few years now, but I'm certainly inexperienced.

With that said, a few months back I picked up a Weatherby Vanguard Wilderness in 30-06 in hopes of making it my dedicated elk/heavier game rifle... not that the other rifles I have couldn't do it... you know how it goes, can never have too many guns.

I usually use the OCW method of working up loads... starting out 10% under max and load 4 individual fouling/pressure check loads(1% increase each) and then go up to max over the next 5 loadings, loading 3x each so you can shoot 3 shot groups and see whats best... hope I explained that okay. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about... anyhow I started out buying some 180gr Accubonds, using Winchester brass trimmed to min length and Winchester LR primers. IMR 4350 powder. I followed the load data on Noslers site, loading them to 3.340 with 52.5-56.5gr of powder. First thing to note is that the power is compressed for most of these loads. 3.340 puts the bullet about .020 off the lands. The throat on this rifle is really short.

I went out yesterday with these and didn't get past the first 3 shot group due to pressure signs(primer was flattening). Made me hesitant to even try the next group, I decided my face and hands were worth more than trying to see if going further would be okay.

Quickload seems to concur with my findings, as it says these loads are mostly at/over pressure. Note that I am a novice with QuickLoad as well.

I picked up some 168gr Barnes TTSXs last night as I've been wanting to try Barnes bullets anyhow.

I guess what I'm asking it, what would you guys try next? Different brass? Different powder? I've never had this issue before!

Thanks.

edit - as someone pointed out, I had my data incorrectly listed, however the 52-56 is what I used to actually load the cartridges. I tried to quickly reference Noshers site and it was on 150gr bullets.

The Nosler data I'm looking at shows 56.5 grains IMR 4350 as max with the 180 grain Accubonds.

You're right. I just popped onto Noslers site to grab the load data quick for this post and didn't notice it was on 150gr bullets. I checked the printout that I had actually loaded off of and confirmed it was the one for 56.5gr/180gr

So if your starting load was 52.5 grains the only way I see it being over pressure would be if the bullet was touching the lands. Maybe try seating those bullets just a tad deeper and try them again. It would be helpful to shoot them over a chronograph.

Also, another thing that makes me wonder about your actual powder charges, is that those should not have been compressed loads. Are you sure your scale is working properly?

AB's are longer than most bullets at least my 6.5 ones for my Swede. I purposely went to them because the military Swede has a long throat. If this is the case with the 30 cal AB"s your bullets might be getting seated pretty far down into the case.Thereby compressing powder and using up case volume.

Your short throat maybe working against you. Also, flattened primers are not a 100% sign of high pressure.When you start to get marks on your case head,sticky extraction, and bugle case right above the head, you know you have passed the safe limit.

My std load for a Nosler 180 gr Partition is 55 gr of H4350 set at a COAL of 3.355. for my Model 70, .06

Jeff..... the next thing you really need to do is get a chronograph. Then you will get some meaningful information out of quick load.
I was out shooting some 165 today with Hunter gunpowder and used Speers maxload with some deep curls in my 06.
My gut instinct told me that the loads were going to be pretty mild and the chronograph proved me on the money....those max loads where loafing along that 2695 FPS out of my 22 inch Tikka.....those max loads aren't even 50k pressure according to quickload.....NOW....I have a baseline to continue working up.

I've been considering a chronograph, but first I'd like to upgrade my scale. I haven't had any reason to be suspicious of it until the loads and it's been a little drifty lately. It's one of those smaller battery powered ones, I think I'm gonna go with a regular balance beam style next I think. Until I'm ready to dump over 200 or 300 on a real nice electronic scale.

So, the only pressure indicator you're using is primer appearance? I'd be looking at bolt lift, case extraction, case head marks before primers.

Edit: I see Saddlesore pretty much covered these after posting.

I would pull some of the loads and re-weight them after calibrating your scale and checking the battery or power source.

I would also try a different primer especially if it is not the one used in the manual. Primers can change the pressure significantly. Also some primers are softer and will flatten even with mild loads.

I think you can buy a prochrono pal for under one hundred bucks.....you need to head some money that direction real soon! Once you have it you'll be very glad you did!

Monometal bullets are longer than lead cores because copper or gilding metal is not as dense as lead. Therefore going to 168gr Barnes the bullets are probably going to be as long or longer than the others you used so don't expect to gain any case capacity that way.
Check your scale with some bullets as check weights. They are usually very consistent. Hopefully you reload a smaller caliber like 223 where you have some bullets that are close to the 52-56gr charge weight you are loading for. Checking with 180gr bullets is probably not going to tell you much but even that is worth a try.
As others have said, primers don't tell you much until you blow a few. Some of my primers are absolutely flattened but the loads chrono under max.

Agree,check scale.

Better call JB on the Batphone. He will probably tell you, primer flattening isn't always a sign of pressure.

Jeff,

Winchester primers are soft and begin to flatten at repetitively moderate pressures. Winchester brass typically runs thin, i.e. adds less pressure than some other cases.
Unless they were pretty well smashed, I wouldn't be too worried and would continue to work up toward max until I saw some collaborating sign of high pressure.

P.S. get a chronograph.

I think in this day and age it's pretty safe to say that a reloading manual and a chronograph go hand in hand. A chronograph is a VERY good idea!

I guess I'll just splurge on my next amazon order and pick up a beam scale AND a chronograph. My wife is gonna love me!

I think once I get a new scale I'm gonna pull all the loads and make sure they're all where they should be. Since I'm ordering a chronograph at the same time I'll cruise up to my spot and also chronograph the loads as well.

I hate you guys right now! (Just kidding). Thanks for all the advice!

Yes, you probably need a better scale. The small electronic scales are pretty good for what they are and what they cost, but many are temperature sensitive. Some of the more expensive ones are, too.

Simple primer flatness is not a reliable pressure indicator, end of story.

The Hodgdon site shows a max of 56.5 grains for IMR 4350, and 57.5 grains for H 4350. My 180 grain H 4350 load (57.5 grains) clocks at 2796, and the strain gauge puts the pressure within 600 PSI of "book" with a COL similar to yours.

I'm a very cautious reloader, and do not go above safe maximum loads. But I will say that there is no reason that the 30-06 cannot safely be loaded to 308 pressures. The standard maximum pressure for 30-06 was set a bit lower than others in the same class to accommodate older, weaker actions. Still, I feel no need to wring out the last bit of speed, and stay in conservative territory. (7x57 and 6.5x55 are another story.)

Scale is off. You should not be compressing that start load. Electronics are nice, but a beam is always nice to have for those times when things get hinky - as they will with an electronic scale from time to time.

When buying scales for reloading,think about what your using it for and your safety.Buy something that is accurate and dependable.

My son had the same rifle with a really short throat and I had similar problems. Shorten your COAL to about 3.2". I also couldn't load it anywhere near max, I hit 2700 fps with 180gr partitions at around 54gr of H4350, My howa 1500 takes 57gr for the same velocity. It was a lot different than any other 30-06 I've loaded for (5-6 different rifles). I would try a shorter COAL, and start at 51gr. $100 chrono is your friend and good investment.

I have a beam scale coming today. Honestly, until now I haven't really had a reason to question the scale I have. The last two times or so I was weighing charges it really seemed like it wanted to drift a tenth or two one way or another.



I will be ordering my chronograph this evening. Thanks for the feedback, glad to see it isn't only me having this issue!

This is probably right.

What you could do, in the mean time, is weigh a bullet and see if the reading agrees with the box. Today's bullets are really quite consistent.

If it happens to land at some weight which suggests it could possibly be a mislabeled box of bullets, measure length of a bullet and compare that to what Midway's site says under details for that bullet.

Probably not, but ... while you're waiting ...

If you're using 180 grain bullets, find some Ramshot Hunter powder. JB likes it for 180s and I took his advice years ago.





Nosler lists 60 grains as max, I found velocity and accuracy at 59 grains. Work up to it.




P

Just use max charges of H-4831 SC in your '06 for all bullet weights, you'll have no over pressure problems and may experience stellar accuracy to boot.

Small electronic scales will try to kill you.

They are only good for weighing brass, not powder.

The scale is sitting at my house(currently at work here) and the chronograph will be in tomorrow. I've already pulled the remaining bullets, when I get home tonight I'm gonna weigh the charges. I'll report back my findings with charge weights.

Thanks for the tip on 4831. I have to pick up some imr4831 for my 270, I know it's a similar powder but would it truly be comparable?

I love H4831 in my 30/06's

Well, weighed all the charges...

All came up either accurate or off by up to .4 grains less then they should have been. At least my old scale wasn't trying to blow my face off, it just didn't want my loads to be as accurate as they could've been.

Tomorrow I'm going to load up some of those 168s and also some more of those 180s using the advice I got here about seating them deeper and backing the load off. My chronograph will be here tomorrow as well so I'll go out saturday morning and check my work.

You're welcome, and No, there's quite a bit of difference in the burn rates of H and IMR 4831 powders, you could always use the H-4831 in your 270, Jack O'Connor killed a thousand head of game with that powder in a 270 with 130 gr bullets.

Hmm.Didn't the electronic scale come with two test weights?.

In larger capacity cases, like the .06 and + a few tenths of a grain of powder will not effect accuracy. If you are treading on the hairy edge of max loads though,that might not be true

Only one, a 100gram weight for calibration.

Tell the wife that you were told this...... buy something nice you'll soon forget the price!

But....be prepared to have it used on YOU someday!

My RCBS came with a 100 and 500 grain weight test slug

I'm already there with it, I bought some Swarovski SLCs last year and I cringed looking at the price and my bank statement... but using them last season I quickly forgot the price. I've probably bought the last pair of binos I'll ever need and I'm trying to do that with the rest of my stuff.

100 gram or 100grain? 100gr is over 1500 grains.

Stormin Norman hit a point that is important: Before you start loading, determine the COL that puts your particular bullet right at the lands.

The easy way to do that is to form a case, and then split the neck with two cuts 180 degrees apart. Deburr. Put the bullet you are using just barely into the case, and put the bullet plus case in the rifle and close the bolt. Open the bolt and measure the length of the resulting assembly. Repeat a couple of times to ensure that you've got the right number.

A very good starting point for COL is .030" shorter than that. Book loads are not designed to allow having the bullet right at the lands. That creates high pressure.

Different bullets of the same weight will have different maximum COLs.