Is the information still available that was posted by Dogzapper concerning the toughness of a 120gr vs 140’s and so on? There were cross sections pictures posted here. It’s been awhile.. a good ten years I’m guessing. Thanks.

Yes. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2508887/

That's only one. Put 120 in as the keyword and dogzapper for the name and search whatever years you want.

From my files: Thanks Steve or this information:


I push 120BTs at 3,370 out of my .280 Ackley. I've killed one Alberta moose, maybe a half-dozen big Alberta whitetails, about four antelope and about eight or ten mule deer with the load. Never seen any hint of a blowup.

The moose shot was at 91 yards. Bullwinkle was standing in a farm two-track, kinda angled. I shot him through the left carotid artery (cool..it spurts) and the bullet exited, leaving a two-inch hole and a totally missing cervical (neck) vertabrae. Moosie stood for about five seconds, long enough for me to rack in another round, and then he tipped over like a piece of plywood in a light wind.

When used in the .280 Ackley, the bullet seemingly always exits on deer and antelope, except for one antelope buck that I shot in the throat and found the bullet next to the bunghole, when I started to do the bad-nasty coring job with my filet knife. That bullet was expanded to about .75" and the core/jacket were one solid piece. The rest of the bullets, on both deer and antelope, totally penetrated and might still be in low-earth orbit, for all I know. Exit holes are not large, averaging about 1 1/2-inches to two inches, and bloodshooting is not bad. Yeah, I know the first few generations of BTs were "soft", but this bullet is much harder.

I've also used the 120BT in my 7SGLC at 3,250 fps MV. One shot I totally remember was hitting a major Montana mule deer buck in the face with the bullet at about ten yards. It was very early one morning and I was creeping up a hill, when I ran smack-dab into a large buck that was peeping at me through a juniper tree.. The horns were MAJOR.....up came the rifle and I shot it under the right eye. Didn't break the skull cap......just killed the living crap out of him.

It must be a guy thing, but I just love shooting critters squarely in the face, if I can. My friend, Roger Roberts, from Weeping Water, Nebraska, about had a hernia when I face-shot a caribou when we were hunting in Quebec...a face-shot at about fifteen feet is graphic and Roger ragged at me for the rest of the hunt about the shot. When I got home, I sent him a long video entitled "Face-Shot Things"; it was about a dozen short video clips melded together that would be great ammo for PETA Roger was SO insulted that he had to watch it fifteen or twenty times; then, he got his wife, Vicki, and the kids to watch it more. But I digress.

With the with the same load in my 7SGLC, I killed a 9 1/2 year old mule buck at 204 yards. Shot through the spine at dusk. Exit hole was maybe two inches, after removing a serious piece of spine. Biggest damned deer I've ever seen....anywhere. And in the gumbo. Karen and I WORKED to get that SOB out.

7SGLC also ended the careers of two 6X6 bull elk, not major bulls, but both were 300 B&C or so. One at about 375 yards and the other one was 400-ish. One was shot through the spine, between the shoulder blades, from above and the bullet penetrated to the brisket hide. The other was broadside...hit squarely in the center of the shoulder, broke both shoulders, but no mess, and penetrated to the off-shoulder hide. Both elk bullets expanded to about .80" and the cores were securely locked in the jackets.

I've killed oodles of big Alberta coyotes with the 120BT in the .280. Doesn't do much, except kill them, because the jacket is too heavy for predator use.

The 120BT, as we know it, came from shooting Silhouetta. Reportedly, the original version was too lightly built to get the reliably knock over the 500-meter steel ram. My buddy, Chub Eastman, was at the first big Silhouetta shoot where they were used and came back home to Bend, OR with the request to "build it heavier."line. Hey, it wasn't selling as a varmint bullet, so they apparently thought that they would build the bullet for their target market; the Silhouetta shooters. Sooooo, Nosler beefed up the jacket and, in doing so, they unknowingly created one Hell of a big game bullet.

Section one, I think you'll see what I mean. The bugger is built like the Ballistic Tip .338s-and-higher. Really heavy jacket.

I use .284"-120BTs on deer and antelope with no hesitation. And, when the opportunity avails itself to bonk a heavier head of big game, I have absolutely no worries with the 120BT.

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More:

I've tried the 140 Sierras and found them too frangible for my use in the .280 Ackley. Dunno how they'd perform in my 7SGLC, but prolly better. Hey, the 120 Ballistics work perfectly in both of my 7s, so the search is over.

Actually, I've found the 120BTs to be very much tougher than the 140BTs.

Obviously, if I'm chasing elk or moosies exclusively, I will usually load up with 154 Hornady Interlockeds. Some Campfire folks might remember that I whacked an Asian water buffalo with my .280 Ackley and 154s......dead buff with a single shot to the carotid arteries.

In the water buffalo kill, the 154 Hornady penetrated two-inches of tough hide....shot clear through the buff's neck....penetrated the two-inch off-side hide and went in low-orbit of the earth. Impressive, very impressive.

Usually, however, I hunt a couple of species at the same time and my bullet choice is determined by the critter I'll most likely kill; namely deer. If an elk or moose shows up, the 120 Ballistic bonks it cleanly. Certainly no complaints from me.

https://imgur.com/H9q98fJ

https://imgur.com/CQooiQB

https://imgur.com/srdTL1U

Maybe someone can help me with those image links, Nothing i try seems to ever work on this forum...and only on this forum.

Pertinent to this thread, however, i shot a medium sized whitetail doe with a handloaded 120 NBT leaving the muzzle of a Tikka 7-08 around 3100fps. At 200 yards i would estimate the impact velocity around 2600-2650 fps. The doe dropped at the shot, with good reason. It was a touch high, striking the bottom of the spine with her standing quartering away from me. There was a hole at impact i could stick my fist through without touching the sides. The bullet traveled up the spine about 12 inches and lodged under the hide at the base of her neck forward of the shoulder blades. Recovered weight was 73.5 grains and for the most part she stayed intact. I was pretty impressed. I was also impressed that i was still able to keep both shoulders, the offside backstrap, and half of the shot side strap with not much bloody meat.

Once again, if someone can help with the pics they are impressive.

Doesn’t look like any 7mm 120 BT i’ve ever seen.

9mm for reference. Wiseass.

Man that little 9mm sure messed up that deer!

Which has what to do with a 7mm 120 ballistic tip?

The 9mm is 2mm wider, duh.





P

Just curious. Were these recently made 120BT bullets or older versions, new old stock maybe??

There was jacket change in these bullets (I'm told, repeatedly) in not so distant years.

Tis an ugly situation I will agree but I have to wonder on the bullet's age since the earlier ones were more volatile.

God Bless
Steve

JB has a post in here somewhere in this forum about which Ballistic Tips were toughened up more than others ( jacket thickness) after the early issues with Ballistic Tips being too frangible. The two I remember were the 7mm 120 and the 30 cal 180 but there were several others. With any luck I'll have field tested the 120 in a 7X57 in the next few days.

Mine were purchased last winter. Brand new not sure of manufacturer date.

Find some blue-tipped seconds, they’re special killers.








P

I think I remember reading if there is no corresponding NAB in a caliber and bullet weight, that NBT is the tougher version.

Seems most of the new ones are pretty tough.

Killed a buck this season, 120 Nosler factory BT, 7-08. Small entrance, 2” exit with considerable internal damage. Buck ran 50 yds and piled up. Was chest shot. Yeah, I sometimes shoot factory. Didn’t have time to work up loads. Factory shoots MOA, kills deer.

DF

120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips work great in a 7x57. I have a Mauser 98 "Banner" action with a 19" barrel that gets 2900 fps with that bullet. Kills deer dead out to 250 yds (that's the farthest we've shot that load).


Dan

if the performance or appearance of that 120 bt in 7mm doesn't please you then ya ain't a bullet nerd! I don't see how ANYBODY could ask anymore than what that 120 bt did and looks like after doing it. imho that is picture perfect projectile performance.
edit to add: it doesn't hurt that they shoot .5" 3 shot group@100yds outta my boys tikka t3 compact. and when my boys get too big for the compact stock I've already purchased a camo takeoff to drop the barreled action in for papa.

The heavier jacketed Ballistic Tips are marked as “Hunting” bullets on the box, including the 120 grainers.

That's fine for targets but not for hunting. The blue tips scare game.

Not if you wrap the muzzle with blue tape, the colors cancel each other out and render the entire rifle invisible.

It’s the damnedest thing. Don’t lean it up against a tree.




P

This past opening weekend, the wife shot a very nice (for us at least) 10 pt Missouri buck at 140 yds tight behind the left shoulder with a 120 gr NBT having about 2950 fps for MV from her T-3X Superlite in 7-08. The bullet hit a rib going in, did significant damage to the lungs, took out the top half of the heart, and did not exit. We later found the jacket under the scapula of the off side shoulder but not the core. The jacket weighed 45.5 grains. I'll post a pic of the jacket later if any are interested but it looks almost just like the one posted earlier in this thread except the core is out.

The deer only ran about 35 yds or so, but did make it into some woods and there was almost zero blood trail. I was happy with the results, due to the short distance the deer traveled, but the lack of an exit or blood trail worried her enough that I may go back to the 120 gr TTSX for her next season. .

Congrats to your wife. That is a very nice deer.

darn nice deer there blu. man I wish I was closer to a sw as I want one of those tikka t3 stainless/fluted 7mm-08 that only sw has. I have to make a road trip one day fo sho.
Big Ed

Congrats to your wife.

I am having similar results with the 120 NBTs out of my 7-08, over 45 grains of Varget, and I’m not sure I like it. I’d also prefer an exit, all things being equal. I haven’t been successful working up a TTSX load that groups as well in my rifle, but I probably will make the switch soon.

I’ve heard the 7mm 120 nbt jacket was beefed up more so than the 140’s? Can’t say how true but we have killed a pile of critters with that 120 and never caught one. How does the 120 6.5 compare to the120 7mm for toughness?


Roy

RTSJ in my limited experience with the 6.5mm 120 bt has been just like yours with the 7mm 120 bt. now I've only killed (2) avg MS deer with the 6.5mm 120 bt and haven't caught one yet. my son shot a 135lb cowhorn spike Christmas eve at 115yds a touch back from where I'd have liked but center punch the body,so a lung/liver hit, and the deer fell at the shot but got back up and ran 50yds before expiring. I call that pretty good for a liver hit deer and decent blood trail. no blood coming from nose is how I imagine it wasn't a lung hit. the next one I told him to aim front shoulder as I wanna see what the 6.5mm 120 bt will do when encountering some bone.
Big Ed

I have killed with Hornady 120s in a 7BR, did the deed. I get that the 120 BT is touted as tougher than a 140 BT. However, what will it do that a Barnes 120 TTSX do? At a distance where the 120s run out of steam, do you 7 fans not prefer a 140 like an Accubond, or even heavier bullet, for the added residual energy?

It would be interesting to see comparisons at various speeds, on penetration and wound channel, to see what does a better job, and at what distances. Personally if shooting longer shots, I think BC and energy advantage of heavier bullets would be meaningful.

Re: that compact Tikka, any idea on the speeds in the 20" bbl?

65BR, this may or may not matter, but I killed two axis bucks this past summer, one with a 7-08/120BT load running a mild 2750fps, the other with a 6.5 CM/120 TTSX running 2800. Both killed and worked as designed I'd say, the TTSX exiting through both shoulders, and the BT entering front shoulder, found under opposite hide, core/jacket separated, but the buck dropped like a sack of rocks while the 120 TTSX victim ran about 40 yards and fell over dead. The 140 AB is still my favorite though when using the 7-08.

We think alike, I believe that AB is hard to beat as the all around choice in 7/08, not that the 120s have failed to drop alot of game. It is my go to in 130 for 6.5mm

Congrats on your bucks. Sounds like that BT wrecked the innards well