Hey guys I ended up bidding on a rifle in this caliber and won it. It comes with a full die set from CH4D. While I've heard plenty about the 416 taylor, I've found zero info on the improved version. Mainly asking questions about fire forming the brass. I have norma and quality cartridge brass on the way. Also 350 gr speer mag tip, and 400 grain hornady dgx. What would be the best way to fire form? Was thinking about starting load in the taylor data, or would cream of wheat be better with about 20 gr of bullseye? While I've been reloading for about 15 years, but this will be my first time messing with an improved case. Any ideas woul be greatly appreciated!

Cleveland,

That would depend on the chamber in your rifle. I've worked with 4 different improved rifles in different calibers & every one was an adventure of its own. Only one I was able to fire factory brass without an incipient case separation problem. Is there really 416 Taylor brass available or are you forming it from 458 or 338 WinMag? If necking down from 458 a 2ndary shoulder to close the bolt with a bit of effort with a stiff, but not max load should work well. I dont think there will be much "improvement" to your Taylor so not a max Taylor load. If necking up, until you know the length of your chamber from base to shoulder, I would do the bullet jammed into lands method with a midrange load if you must use $$ components, or better yet... COW fireform to set headspace using the shoulder rather than the belt before loading a regular charge.

For a point of reference, in an 06 size case I worked up to about 16 gr of mid-speed pistol powder (Unique I think... cant find the notes right now), case packed tight to neck/shoulder junction with COW (maybe it was corn meal or instant grits) & a wad of TP stuffed in the neck to hold it all in place fired in the yard pointed straight up in the air. It looked like there was a parade & smelled like breakfast cooking. No loss of brass using this method after all other methods tried failed. Dont forget to clean the bore before shooting real projectiles.

Thanks! Yes you can get factory 416 taylor brass from norma and quality cartridge. I wish I would of went with the 458 brass and necked down, would of been cheaper lol. I saw somewhere online where a guy used 20 gr of bullseye, and toilet paper in his 416 taylor to form 458 brass after he necked it down. I also doubt there is much improvement over the regular 416 taylor, but I really have no idea. When you used the toilet paper method, how much did you use? I wasnt sure if you are supposed to use enough to just plug the neck? Or a little more to stuff in the case body. Thanks for your reply I appreciate it!

Thanks! Yes you can get factory 416 taylor brass from norma and quality cartridge. I wish I would of went with the 458 brass and necked down, would of been cheaper lol. I saw somewhere online where a guy used 20 gr of bullseye, and toilet paper in his 416 taylor to form 458 brass after he necked it down. I also doubt there is much improvement over the regular 416 taylor, but I really have no idea. When you used the toilet paper method, how much did you use? I wasnt sure if you are supposed to use enough to just plug the neck? Or a little more to stuff in the case body. Thanks for your reply I appreciate it!

About a quarter of a sheet and just enough to plug the case mouth. I have had case separation when it is jammed in below the neck. A piece of Dacron or kapok works too, or you can use soap or wax in the case mouth only as a plug.

I think I would just go with the bullet method and do some plinking with either cast bullets or reduced loads. If you can get un-sized ones for the 41 magnum they should work.

I've used Red Dot for fire forming unique and bullseye are good too. Start with around 15 grains and keep adding until the shoulder is well defined but not perfectly formed, at first they will look like a Weatherby cartridges. I use the Lee powder dippers for both powder and Cream of wheat, get the regular or use corn meal or gritsl as the instant has salt in it and fouls the bore more.

Thanks! I have unique and red dot on hand already. I have read about the soap plug before, but forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me. I'll prolly load a few pieces with bullets, and a few with cream of wheat. And go with whichever seems to work best. Thanks for the help!

Yeah, just enough to fill the neck snug enough to make a wad to hold everything else tightly in place & stop the powder from mixing with the COW. It's not an exact amount, there's not enough pressure to cause any damage & 6 or 10 gr. of TP wouldn't be much resistance anyway. Soap plug should work as well & may be cheaper than TP. Like Tejano said, you want pressure enough to define the shoulder & start to blow out the body that little tiny bit. Everything will sharpen up & fill out better with the 1st full load. Hopimg if you try the bullet jam method, the throat is short enough to get a good bite. The rifle I used COW for forming has a very short throat but for some reason I still had that bright brass ring at the web after jamming to fireform. If you have a comparator, try forming one or two cases & measure them with the new brass. If you have real Taylor brass it may be good to go if the chamber was cut right. Sometimes you get lucky.

How did they "improve" the Taylor...?

Is the neck shorter?

If not then fire-forming is not necessary, just load and shoot normal loads and the brass will form itself off of the first firing..

The belt should be enough, but if it won't headspace, then it needs a false shoulder.

Replace the expander button with one slightly larger, expand the neck to the larger size then neck size partially to form a tight fitting partial shoulder. Then load and shoot...No Cream of Wheat or wasted bullets.

A 404 Jeffrey expander button is the next size up, but CH may have other options, they are close to being a custom die shop and the owner is friendly enough.

Thanks! I'm not sure how they improved the parent case. Bought the rifle on gunbroker without alot of information. The website from the die manufacturer is the only thing I found that had that caliber listed. A google search came up with zero information on the improved version. I may call the die shop once the rifle and dies arrive, and see what is different in the cases.