I have a 6x6.8 wildcat (24 Varminter). Has anyone tried Blue Dot to fireform brass? When using Blue Dot in rifle cases, how do you figure a starting charge?

Funny you call it a "24 varminter". Last I heard, it was called a 6 WOA. ??

1. Fill to top of case, scrap off overage.... weight charge....

2. multiply that amount x 50%.. that is your max load, but still work up.... BUT stop here.

3. multiply max weight of Blue Dot full to top.... multiply that by 20%... that is your starting charge.

Meaning half of case capacity weighed (case filled with Blue Dot to the top and struck level?) is max and 20% of case capacity is minimum. So my read is if the case holds 30.0 grains then 15.0 grains is max? Minimum would be 6.0 grains?

@bsa1917hunter I'm still sorting out the different variations of 6.8spc's necked down to 6mm. I believe the 24 Varminter is closer to the 6mm DTI than the 6mm WOA. 24 Varminter needs to be fireformed to punch the shoulder forward and reduce body taper.
24 Varminter was originally called a 24 GPC coming out of Mad Dog Weapons Systems & Varminter Magazine.

https://maddogweapons.com/product-category/24-varminter-products/
https://www.varminter.com/the-new-r...e-cartridge-with-mad-dog-weapon-systems/

Thanks Seafire! I was going to PM you on this but I don't have the post count to enable that feature.

Don't sweat it, you know way more about it than BSA does 😉

Welcome to the Campfire 🔥

Then just post it here....its not like most of this Blue Dot load stuff hasn't been posted a zillion times...for a LOT of different cartridges.

Yes, but in the 223, the max is less than 30 grains...

14.5 grains is max I use with a 40 grain bullet

14 grains is max for a 50 grain bullet.

13.5 is max for a 52 gr bullet

13 for a 53 grainer

12.5 for a 55 grainer

12 for a 60 grainer.


If you check on line here on the campfire, or just on Google search, you'll find Blue Dot data for a lot of different cartridge data I have developed and tested.

I have run a lot of it, was just clarifying for Halvin.

gotcha...

Case capacity was 27.4 grains. Figured the low at 5.4 grains and the high at 13 on my unformed brass. Settled on ten grains for fireforming although my starting point at six worked just fine. Neat loads. For future use I saved a sight in setting for them. Topping them off with 55 gr Sierra BlitzKings.

What projectile are you going to run once fireformed and what powder?

The same 55 gr Sierra Blitzkings over H335.

Ten grains of Blue Dot under an unknown 85gr factory second clocked 1765 FPS. Must be on the edge of stabilization because they keyhole once they hit a milk jub filled with water.

what was the twist rate on your barrel??

1 in 8.

After fireforming, SSA brass case capacity is 28.3 grains & Hornady brass is 26.4 grains.

24 Varminter- Fireformed SSA brass, CCI450 Magnum SR Primers, 75gr Speer HP, Blue Dot

grains FPS

10.0 1,863
10.5 1,985
11.0 2,034
11.5 2,106
12.1 2,185
12.6 2,202
13.0 2,246
13.4 2,297
13.5 2,336 average (12 shot production string running drops from 13.4 to 13.6)
14.0 2,371

The 13.5 gr loading punched into the fifth milk jug and retained 47.7 grains in a very well mushroomed form. Interesting compared to full bore loads that stop in 3 half gallon milk jugs and leave the bullet in pieces.

Thanks for the info Halvin. Slower speeds punch thru more than fast bullets a lot of times, and it takes a lot for people to understand that.

I've got some steel plates that I shot with a 55 grain bullet out of a 223 with 13 grains of Blue Dot, AFTER I shot them with the same bullet weight with another powder at 3150 fps ( regular military load MVs).

the military loads hit the 3/8 inch steel plate and splattered, just barely making a dent in them.

the Same Bullets were Hornady 55 grain SPs and FMJs, were fired at the targets at 100/ meters. 13 grains of Blue Dot gave an MV 500 fps Slower, yet each shot punched right thru the same steel plates, that the military standard MV of 3150 fps, just hit the plates and splattered.

everyone seems to think higher velocity is the answer, but it depends upon the bullet and the resistance it gets from the media it is hitting.

Speed sells and lower velocity doesn't....yet lower velocity ammo works when higher speed velocity won't or even just plain fails.

Load your bullets to the velocity, that works best for your target work and desired results...and what the bullet's parameters are....

but most people will think you are nuts and think the opposite, although few will admit, they've never even tried it...

I bought 3 pounds of Blue Dot not that long ago. Shot in a 444, 45 LC, 223, and a 45/70 I am almost out. Sure seems to burn up quick even with the light charges.

OR:

you've just shot a lot of rounds down range. The 444 and 45/70, you're using how many grains per charge?

For sage rats, in the 223, if I run 55 grain bullets my charge is 12.5 grains. Divide that into 7000 grains for a pound, and that will yield over 550 rounds per pound...or 1650 rounds for 3 pounds. I single shot my 223s in the varmint fields, so that is a fair amount of trigger pulling, and a fair amount of dead sage rats.

When I go down to a 10 grain charge with a 40 grain plastic tip bullet, that is 700 rounds per pound, or 2100 rounds for three pounds of Blue Dot.

You must shoot a lot more than I do, and a lot of folks think I shoot a lot...except our mutual buddy on Prince of Wales Island...in Buttfudk Alaska.

Mostly the 444 and 45-70 were getting charges in the mid teens under cast bullets. The 45 Colt which I shoot a lot of out of a Rossi carbine and a Ruger Vaquero got 14 grains. This absolutely ran down my lead supply and my LR/LP primer supply. Why now most of my shooting is done with rounds that use small rifle primers. Yep I did a lot of shooting and so did my Grandson. He did learn to load shells and cast bullets. All good. I will say my 45-70 loads using Blue Dot were not entirely satisfactory as for consistency but were plenty fun to watch the kids shoot up.

Seafire, Is this the basic formula to establish load guidelines for Blue Dot regardless of cartridge?

Thanks.

Frank

There is no substitute for empirical experience. I don't care what field of life we are talking about.,

for most cases, yeah...

Blue Dot's formula does like short fat cases, better than longer thin ones...

but another formula I pass on ( but still work up)... for a 308 based case, 22.5 grains is max, regardless of caliber, and just work up slower if you are using one of the heavier for caliber bullets. 26 grains is max for a 30/06 based case., same rule of thumb, just work up with some of the heavier bullets for caliber.

in a 7 x 57 based case... 8x57, 6.5 x 57 ( or 6.5 x 55), 6mm Rem and 257 Roberts, MAX charge is 24 grains of Blue Dot.
Blue Dot will make rifle barrels still pretty darn good hunting accuracy, even if they are shot out or close to it.. Will save most of older guys having to rebarrel ol Betsy, when we only have a 5 or 10 yr window of deer hunting left in our lives.

Same with old SR 4759 if ya got any or can find any...

Or if you are in that boat, just consult cast bullet manuals.. you can use that same data, with jacketed bullets, because your pressures are WAY under SAAMI specs, and they will still give minute of deer out to 200 yds or so for quite a while on an otherwise shot out barrel.

another side note, those will recoil less, and slowing down fragile bullets some, or regular SP bullets, at lower speeds they will penetrate further on a game animal also..... Kinda the same thing, of why a 350 Legend will drop game animals that seem to be out of its weight class ..and most people are thinking Winchester reinvented the wheel...

Kinda why my philosophy is to let the rifle barrel tells me what it likes and what it will do with something, vs the folks that take a reload manual as a Bible, and think variating from that is blasphemy. Reload manuals are a recommendation, not a Bible...Few folks get that... Thinking outside the box isn't as common as people think it is...especially in today's world.