What are some good loads for the 17 fireball. Which powder is best for the 25gr. hornady v-max. any suggestion would be helpful and which primer.

I use 4198 powder and Rem 7.5 primers under 25 grain bullets.

I do everything the opposite of everyone else in life it seems..

I ordered a barrel chambered in 17 Fireball..I was quoted 3 to 4 months delivery...

however I went out and picked up a 17 Fireball die set from RCBS..

a local gunsmith friend has a die for making 17 Fireball out of 223 brass, so I went over and made up about 20 cases at his place...

picked up a box of bullets...

I loaded up about 10 rounds of it...

based on the size of the bullet or lack of it...
based on the finickyness of brass being that small of an opening, and having ruined 2 cases out of 10 resizing them again...

I called up the barrel maker and instead of just cancealing an order with them, I had them change the order to another caliber for another rifle...

I came to the conclusion, compared to a 223, the 17 bore isn't worth the effort for a handloader, unless you are more coordinated than my fingers are, your eyesight is better than mine... or that you just love to play with finicky little things..

If I am going to do a 17 bore, I have to admit.. it will be the 17 HMR I constantly curse... or just figure that I don't need the 17 Fad in my shooting life...

there may be a spot for the 20 calibers, we'll see...

I didn't jump on the 204 band wagon...but the 20 bore that does intrigue me is the 20BR...

another forum member on another site, sent me a dummy rond for a 20/22.250 that he had made...

I'm going to look at the 20 BR, but the 17 bullets are just too darn small for this guy!

I really enjoy handloading.. but I didn't enjoy working with that 17 Fireball.. too darned little!
and even a slight breeze and they are worthless for accuracy..

I was sad to be disappointed with the round.. because I think it is a really cool looking little round..and a rifle about the size of my Ruger 77/17 chambered in it would be excellent...

Seafare I agree with you holehardly, the wind moves the bullet to much for varmint hunting. I went prairie dog hunting in Co. and the wind always blows. My main rifle is a rem. bdl in .223. I had a vais break put on the rifle and when you pull the trigger the rifle does not move, you can see the bullet hit the dogs. I shoot a 40 gr hornady v-max with 26.5 win 748. I am think about selling the rem 17 fireball. thanks for your thoughts

I love my little XP-100 17 Fireball. I just use the cheap 25 Horn. HP's for prairie dogs, and have had decent success with the little rig to about 500 yds. I used to use the heavy 30's with it when it was a Mach IV for coyotes (set the barrel back recently and rechambered it when it lost accuracy and too much of it's throat). It is my go-to rig for coyote fur hunting.

I'm running the 25's at about 3425 out of it's 16.75" barrel with IMR 4198.

Any idea how many rounds you got through the Mach IV before it needed rechambering ? Just curious, as I'm shooting a .17 Rem Fireball with 25 grain V-max running at 3,600 fps from a Rem 7 CDL 20" barrel.

I haven't gotten to the 25s yet. With the 20s H335 seems to be my best powder. I went from 19 to 20.5 grains in tiny increments and it seemed like 20.0 did the best job.

I expect to use the same 3 powders for 25 grain bullets. I've seen some data for 4198, RL7, and 4227, but I'd rather have a nearer full case. If anything I'd like a little slower powder, not faster.

Tom

Toms22: I do know that Remington factory cartridges (20 gr. Accu-Tips) are exceptionally accurate in my 17 Remington Fireball (Remington 700 VSF with Nikon 6.5x20 variable scope).
The largest group (5 shots at 100 yards) I made with my factory stock Rifle and the factory ammo measured .586"!
I have killed all manner of Varmints with this factory ammo and have been very happy with its performance and lethality - EVEN on windy days!
Now that I have enough brass I am shooting 25 gr. Berger bullets in my handloads and I am even more pleased with this cartridge!
I had a full custom Varminter in 17 MachIV built back in 1995 and this Rifle and cartridge have given me nothing but sensational performance from day one.
The 17 MachIV is the "twin" of the 17 Remington Fireball.
I use the wonderful Berger 25 gr. MEF bullets in both the aforementioned Rifles.
I don't "know" which powder is "best" for the 17 Remington Fireball but I am sure as happy as a clam with W 748 in it!
I also use W 748 in my 17 MachIV.
Be sure to try the Berger bullets in your 17 Remington Fireball along with W 748 powder.
I like Federal 205M (match) primers also.
Best of luck with your 17 Remington Fireball.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Honestly, Wolf i couldn't tell u. I bought the rig used and put 3-4000 rds. down it myself.

Tom: Benchmark and RL10X have been two excellent powders for my 17MIV, especially under 25gr pills.

Greg

Seafire: You said it "I" didn't: "I do everything the opposite of everyone else in life it seems.."

It appears you are in an un-natural rush to find fault with most things!

Your condemnation of the "17 bore's as a fad" is just plain bizarreness gone completely amok (or amuck - both spellings correct - def. "in a condition of murderous insanity" - Websters Dictionary)!

The 17 centerfires have served Varmint Hunters splendidly for many decades now! AND now the 17 rimfires are doing great things in certain Varmint applications.

With a minimal amount of extra effort, splendid 17 caliber centerfire handloads can be made.
And if "I" can do it anyone can!
For instance I have suffered numerous broken bones in both hands and significant ligament damage to my right thumb. In addition I am severely afflicted with arthtritis in the thumbs and first two fingers of both of my hands!
I can barely feel the mass of a 20 gr 17 caliber projectile in my hands - on occassion I drop them and don't immediately know it. On occassion I think I have dropped them and I haven't!
The little extra effort involved in loading 17 centerfires amounts to next to nothing and maybe adds 2 minutes to the time it takes me to load 20 of the 17 caliber centerfires!
And what in the name of Jehosaphat are you doing trying to make 17 Remington Fireball brass out of 223 Remington stuff???
17 Remington Fireball brass is now readily available.
I own 4 (four) Varminters in 17 centerfire calibers now and would NOT consider selling any of them!
17 centerfire Varmint cartridges are fun, accurate, quiet, have NO recoil, are VERY lethal and are TONS of fun to Hunt with.
I strongly suggest you give the 17 centerfires ANOTHER chance on Varmints.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Thanks, 3,000 - 4,000+ that's reassuring. Probably better than the .17 Rem.

Sorry VG...

They are too effected by wind for me..

and handloading the little devils is more of a challenge than I want to embrace...

not criticizing anyone elses desires for them...

I still think the 17 Fireball is one sweet looking little round.. makes you want to go out and shoot varmints with it by just looking at it...

however, to handload them is a pain I don't feel like tackling and the cost of factory ammo isn't overly appealing in the volumes I'd be shooting them in...

believe me the 17 Fireball is ONE cartridge I am dying to love...

but the bullets are too small to handload for me... and as far as the wind effecting the bullets.... the wife won't let me varmint hunt in the house or garage, and there are no many in there anyway...

all the looking I do at other cartridges smaller than the 223, keep pushing me right back to 22 caliber and back to appreciating the 223 all the more...

what can I say? I gave a few a try and didn't "catch the fever" that others seem to get out of them... but my 223s sure give me a lot of fun....

Seafire said-"I really enjoy handloading.. but I didn't enjoy working with that 17 Fireball.. too darned little!
and even a slight breeze and they are worthless for accuracy.."

If you never got past reloading a few, and never shot them, how do you know of this "worthless accuracy" in a "slight" breeze? If you just "read" it, then many still also write that .17's foul their barrel after 5 shots or so..
Launching a 25gr Vmax at 3800fps or so sure seems to negate all the concern about wind drift, unless you are in the conditions that would affect most any small (.224 and smaller) varmint round.
I believe some field work with a fast .17 would have been enlightening as to what they will do, versus what has (sometimes) been written.
Plus it does look cool...

Greg

Back to the old, don't disclose the reasons you might not like a certain round... or you'll get folks knocking your opinion?

I only said that I personally didn't like the round after working with it.. then anyone who likes it feels suddenly insulted...

as far as seeing it on the range and with wind blowing it around? I've seen others use it on the range and also had the opportunity to borrow one from a friend who had one, before I went down and plunked my money down on one...

I have several 17 HMR's I purchased because everyone couldn't sing their praises enough... now I can get rid of them unless I virtually give them away at a substantial loss...

I don't care for the 17s after working with them, and have given the reasons why...But never have I said that others should stay away from them...

so I am at a loss of those who feel personally insulted when someone doesn't care for their little pet round...

I tried it, didn't like it.. so I have some experience to base it on... instead of being like tons of guys on some of these web sites who can tell you why a round 'sucks' when they have never shot it or tried to handload it...

you don't question my judgement, I won't question yours...

Internet, deer camp, shooting range...differing opinions abound. Not being personally insulted, I was just pointing out some of the assets of the centerfire .17's; I made no comment on the challenges of reloading same, as that is a personal issue. My point was not to defend a pet round, but illustrate my field use of the round (and the 17AH) give me emperical data to hopefully help the curious know that the 17 Fireball/MIV (or any 17 centerfire) can perform well.
I never caught the 17HMR bug, not shooting many rimfires. Without data, I'm just assuming there's not much in common with a 17gr at 2500fps, versus a 25gr at 3800fps. I'm just hoping future .17 enthusiasts appreciate the difference, when considering the centerfires...
Differing opinions, and how they are taken, go both ways. Fortunately our affliction (hobby) is fun for all involved.

Seafire,

I'm a solid 17 fan, with a 17HMR,17HM2, and a 17Fireball. Having said that, I thought your responses were a model for reasonableness, good manners, and and clear thinking.

It would be helpful if your approach caught on more at the Fire.

Best,

Steve

Seafire: How about this route (and admittedly it's an expensive route!) - shoot the 17 Remington Fireball barrel with factory ammo?
They are pricey little cartridges at about a dollar a shot!
But to have one of these 17 Fireball Rifles around for the occassional long shot on Jack Rabbits, Badgers, Magpies, Rock Chucks, Coyotes, Skunks or feral cats certainly would add another dimension to your Varminting!
My Remington 700 VSF shoots the 20 gr. factory Accu-Tips REALLY well!
OR.... stick with the pretty pleasing little 223!
I still HAVE to ask "what in the world were you doing trying to make 17 Remington Fireball brass out of 223 brass"???
And please don't say you were trying to save 3 cents - I just flat out refuse to accept that as a valid answer/reason!
I had occassion just yesterday to "take out" a feral Varmint with my 17 Remington Fireball - I have 2 boxes of factory ammo I am trying to use up on this sight-in before going strictly to handloads!
Anyway - one shot, one kill at 220 yards, and I got to witness the bullet impact on said Varmint - thats something you can't often do with the recoil of ones 223 Rifle.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Mulerider..

I really like the idea of the 17 AH and the 17 Fireball.. .I think they are the best of the 17 caliber rounds... due to the expense of the factory ammo for one, and the small size of the bullets for reloading with my fingers at this age... it isn't worth what my needs would be satisfied for it...As long as you were not offended by my comments, then all is well...


Steve;

Thanks for the kind words....I appreciate it very much...

VG,

as far as making brass out of 223 for the 17 Fireball...well I have a tons of 223 brass... secondly I have access to a custom made die from a gun smith buddy... he makes his 17 Fireball brass from 223 and 222 brass... and the 17 Fireball is his primary varmint round...

Sales of the 17 Fireball aren't doing well here in Oregon, which does surprise me.. but ammo availability and cost could be a factor...there are several on the racks at local stores and they just are not moving...even with reduced pricing...

even if I got past the reloading clumsy-ness of the small bullet and big thumbs of the operator, it still bothers me for the way the wind bothers it, even at 75 and 100 yds...

I am still entertaining the 20 BR as a sub 22 caliber round...

but I get so much flexibility and inexpensive operational costs on the 223, it is just hard to beat...and even tho you don't approve of my loads, the recoil issue is not a problem with them... as there isn't any so to speak..

Seafire: I assumed you HAD 223 brass - its just NOT worthwhile to hacksaw, trim, resize and then fireform 223 brass to 17 Remington Fireball size - NOW that 17 Remington Fireball brass is readily available!
How about this - I buy you 100 pieces of 17 Remington Fireball brass and you go about the business of having fun with a "no recoil" very lethal little Varminting Rifle - the 17 Remington Fireball!
And, for your information, a 20 grain 17 Fireball bullet travelling at 4,000 F.P.S. covers 225 feet (your 75 yard distance!) AWFULLY QUICKLY!
The wind does not have much time to work on that bullet - like about one eighteenth of a second!
You ARE going to hit the Varmint you are shooting at - at 75 yards irregardless of the wind direction, with your 17 Remington Fireball!
I have NEVER missed a Varmint (to date!) because of wind when shooting my 17 Remington Fireball!
Of course I have about 50 years experience dealing with the wind while shooting afield!
I have missed a couple of Varmints with my 17 Fireball, but it's probably do to poor range estimation and "jerking" the trigger more than wind deflection!
Let me know on the 100 pieces of brass - I will be out on the coast soon and can get it to you then!
I answered an off forum E-mail and the sender wanted me to relay to you how he at first also had trouble with handling the tiny projectiles for his 17 centerfire when he was trying to reload them. Now he has next to no troubles with the 17 caliber projectiles as he reloads. He has "learned" how to handle the tiny bits of metal.
I still do have a bit of a slower than normal "handling" of the 17's but again its nothing real difficult to overcome or deal with. And I attribute my slowness to crushed and disease inflicted fingers.
20 BR huh...?
Are you sure you would not like to go with the 204 Ruger cartridge for your sub-22 project?
Dies are about 1/5th the cost (204 vs. 20 BR) - to begin with.
Best of luck with whichever calibers you decide on.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Hi VG -

Yeah, I can't imagine manually making fireball brass from .223. Tee-dee-us. Total waste of time when you can buy from midway. In fact (hint to Seafire) the Sportsman's Warehouse in Medford had a bag or two last time I was in. Since I already had 600 cases, all I bought was the 700 SPS they had on sale for $427 NIB. That's more than $100 cheaper than the .22 rimfire I was eyeballing when I went in there.

Personally, I don't shoot all that far with the .17s, 200, 250 yards. Beyond that bullets don't expand real spectacularly. To that distance, they resist wind as well as the .22-250 and Swift with conventional bullets.

As far as .204, I'm sure glad I gave it one more try after the first two (cheap) guns failed to deliver accuracy. I'm having more fun with it than anything I've owned except maybe a slow twist 6x.284 (1-14, for mostly 70 grain ballistic tips) I had built a few years back. .204 is pure death on our ground squirrels. The absolute only complaint I have is that there is not a lower cost, conventional hollowpoint or soft point of light construction, something like a Speer TNT or Hornady SX, so it's a little more expensive than .223 to feed. But who cares, at the cost of gas to get to the shooting, and food, etc, what's an extra $20 bucks max for more entertainment from a day's shooting?

Tom

Well TOM, they only have one bag of 17 Fireball brass left as I bought the other one last night...

I am borrowing a 17 Fireball chambered in an Encore Set up from a gun smith buddy over here in GP..

Well see if it gives me anything the 223 isn't...looking at charges of 15 grains of powder or so.. that is all I am putting in the 223.. or less, so the amount of reduced recoil isn't going to be much, if any at all...and in the 223 I can see the bullet hits within the scope on these light loads also...

but I am going to try it out... if it doesn't work out for me, I've already told VG he can have the components I have picked up to load for it...

We'll see how it works out... if I don't care for it afterwards... well.. what can I say?