Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223?

Posted by: old70

Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/02/10 07:54 PM

I've gotten the urge for a bull barreled .223 bolt action for a varmint rifle. My potential choices are very subjective, but Its a toss up between the Savage short actions (reputedly accurate, but not an attractive action, IMHO), and the CZ 527 (nicer looking, but unknown accuracy). Not a fan of Remingtons, so won't consider them. And, as much as I like Winchesters, I'm not looking there either. Likewise, I know the various AR platforms are popular and capable, but I get enough of that type at work.

I'm interested in input between the two above, and am interested in other suggestions.

Thanks in advance to all!
Posted by: drover

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/02/10 08:19 PM

Take a look at a Tikka, my experince with Tikka's chambered in 223 in both heavy and sproter weight barrels in has been very positive. I have owned 3 sporter weight and 1 heavy barreled Tikka and they all shot 1/2 inch, 3 shot groups at 100 yds.

I have not owned any CZ centerfires but a friend that I PD hunt with has a sporter weight in 223 that shoots as well as any factory rifle I have ever seen. I do have a CZ rimfire and it shoots as well as my Anschutz sporter, and I did own a 17 HMR sporter that also shot very well. I certainly would not shy away from one, particuarily if a person could catch one on sale at an attractive price. Another plus is that I have heard or read nothing but good things about the CZ customer serice - something that can't be said about Tikka,it is owned by Beretta and they seem to have a lot of complaints about their customer service, or lack of same.

drover
Posted by: Calif. Hunter

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/02/10 08:22 PM

I have an older .223 Savage 110 "4x4" with a 20-inch heavy barrel. It was made before Savage came out with the 10-series short action version. It is very accurate - I have shot 1/4-inch groups with H-335 powder or H-322 under 40 and 50 gr bullets.

I also have a CZ-527 American in .223 with the standard weight barrel - a lightweight walking-around varminter. It is just as accurate aas the Savage, but the barrel does heat up faster. Several experienced benchrest shooters have been impressed with the CZ's accuracy, ande a couple have said it shoots as well as or better than their Coopers.

I don't think you can go too far wrong either way. Check them both out and see which feels better to you.
Posted by: VarmintLooney

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/03/10 06:20 AM

If you want a heavy barreled and accurate 223, try the Kimber SVT. A friend of mine picked one up not long ago. His SVT drills five shots in almost the same hole. The SVT only has an 18 barrel, but it has no taper so it is still over an inch in diameter at the muzzle. I believe that Kimber makes a longer barreled LongMaster that is the same as the SVT except in the barrel length.
Posted by: TN deer hunter

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/03/10 08:02 AM

I know you said you didn't like Remingtons but have you looked at the older model Light Tactical Rifles? I have a LTR with the 20" fluted barrel with a 1-9" twist and really like it. The HS Precision stock is a plus as well.
Posted by: old70

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/03/10 09:20 AM

Thanks for all the advice, please keep it coming. Cost is an factor, I'd like to keep the whole package (with glass)in the 6-800 range if possible.
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/03/10 09:33 AM

Let's cut to the chase.

Why the heavy tube?................
Posted by: old70

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/03/10 04:56 PM

I was looking for a bench gun, something with some weight to it. I've got several sporters in a variety of calibers, and was looking for something different.
Posted by: coythtr

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/03/10 05:51 PM

Go with Savage , they are plenty accurate.
Posted by: Seafire

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/03/10 05:54 PM

Originally Posted By: old70
I was looking for a bench gun, something with some weight to it. I've got several sporters in a variety of calibers, and was looking for something different.


then I'd go to the Savage..

you can easily change barrels once you get a platform set up the way you like ( barrel, action and trigger..)

I've got Rugers, Winchester, Remington and Savages in 223..
and all have their points..

the Rugers have not been mentioned.. and mine are very accurate along with the other brands..

also consider the one in 9 or one in 8 twist...
then you can use the 68 thru 80 grain bullets, which can easily double the range of the 223, as compared to the 55 grain and under bullet weights..
Posted by: Dave_Skinner

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/03/10 09:33 PM

Savage model 12 or 10.
My 10 FP, even with a Tupperware stock, was a half inch rifle right up to the day I put a new barrel on it. I still have the old barrel and it's going on an AR this winter.
My evil landlord bought a Predator Accustock on my advice -- this one has NOT been out of the stock, nor have I touched the trigger. Completely bone-@$$ out of the box. After break in, the first five handloaded rounds went into .327.
We are still fireforming, but when I'm driving, that load runs in the fours for me. Color me impressed enough not to give a rats fanny any more about how Savage's look. They shoot.
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 11:39 AM

Originally Posted By: old70
I was looking for a bench gun, something with some weight to it. I've got several sporters in a variety of calibers, and was looking for something different.


If it's a Fair Weather Play Toy,Cooper rates a thunk. Kimber do alotta things right,with the Montucky topping that list.

LTR's are twisted right(you'll need to scoot the mag shim) and wear a better than average handle. Would like to see a 1-8" VLS in S/S,a S/S laminate Classic twisted same and a S/S LTR.

Couldn't formulate a single reason to go Salvage,unless one had lost a good sized bet..................
Posted by: HawkI

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 02:08 PM

Sako L461 HB, AI or 75 HB.

The Kimber 84M is a HB gun that weighs like most sporters and shoot well too.
Posted by: Brett_Mc

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 04:00 PM

I'm not sure if you've made up your mind on the CZ or Savage, but Weatherby has a couple heavy barreld .223s. I have a Vanguard Varmint Special that I got for $400 after a $100 rebate from Cabela's. I really enjoy the rifle. Only gripe was the creepy 5 3/4lb trigger pull, but I had it tuned. It loves the 55NBT and 63 Sierra. Also I wouldn't mind a tighter twisted barrel for the option to shoot the heavies. It comes with a 1-12.

They also offer the Sub MOA model in .223 with a little different stock.

Take a look at one if they have either at your local gun shop.

And let us know what you get and how it shoots no matter the brand.

Brett (Mac)
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: HawkI
Sako L461 HB, AI or 75 HB.

The Kimber 84M is a HB gun that weighs like most sporters and shoot well too.


I love the A1-esque baby Sako's,except for their miserly mag confines. Couldn't stomach that concession Today.

I'd drive my Montucky against anything in the field.................
Posted by: old70

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 05:11 PM

No decision made yet, but I appreciate the good info. I have to let a couple go before the treasury will fund a new one.
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 05:13 PM

Stack 'em up,turn out the lights and let 'em breed.

It ain't a bad "problem" to have......................
Posted by: Chrome

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 05:52 PM

If you don't mind a Savage...





Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 05:55 PM

My Montucky do better than that,with fireforming 50's at 3450fps.

Should settle,after I bed it.............
Posted by: ingwe

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: chrome
If you don't mind a Savage...




I'm like Stick when it comes to Savages...

REALLY gravels me that they shoot that well though.... wink

Ingwe
Posted by: Chrome

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/04/10 07:11 PM

Not a Savage man myself...

But for the money I've invested less than $850 in the total package its hard to beat.

No load developement or barrel brake in, that was the 9,10,& 11 th shot from the rifle.

Also no bedding or trigger job.
Posted by: HawkI

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/05/10 07:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Big Stick
Originally Posted By: HawkI
Sako L461 HB, AI or 75 HB.

The Kimber 84M is a HB gun that weighs like most sporters and shoot well too.


I love the A1-esque baby Sako's,except for their miserly mag confines. Couldn't stomach that concession Today.

I'd drive my Montucky against anything in the field.................


Yep. Best way around is 22 or 6PPC AI action/boltface and a properly twisted tube.....or just using the 222 case.

COAL particulars on that Montana after the mag box is fixed? Been wanting to punch one out.
Posted by: Paperkiller

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/05/10 06:24 PM

Savage Mod. 12 Single shot with your choice of bbl. in a low pro laminated stock will make you smile, Prob. have to put the leupold off till later. Contact Northern Shooters Supply Jim Biggs will treat you right & fix you up. Savage shooters forums will give you the info you need to decide. BUT PERSONALLY ID DO A REMINGTON HANDS DOWN.
Posted by: FC363

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/06/10 07:00 AM

I have both a Savage and a CZ in .223, and if I had to choose another one, it would be the CZ. Both rifles have almost the same number of rounds through them, and the throat in the savage is shot out, while the lands in the CZ haven't even moved .005".

The accuracy of both was good and the CZ is still truckin along, whereas the Savage gave up a long time ago.

If you are set on a Savage, the only recommendation I can make is the same option I took: call Savage Shooter Supply and get a new stainless barrel for it. It will shoot much better and easily live longer.
Posted by: BuckeyeSpecial

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/06/10 06:09 PM

I have a Zastava Mini Mauser in .223 with a #3 contour Douglas barrel at 22", it has a 1x12 twist rate. Pretty much a perfect lightweight walking gun with a medium sporter barrel.

For hunting purposes, #3 is as heavy as I would go.

These were sold recently as the Remingtom 799 [complet rifle]; my action was a Charles Daly import from 1995 or so.
Posted by: Tonk

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/08/10 09:14 AM

I have been using several of those Savage rifles since I got the first one almost 2 years ago. My bench rifles are model 12's and they are not meant for totting around in the field big fact, unless your Paul Bunyan type.

I also have a sporter in a Savage with bull barrel and it is not that heavy at all to carry with synthetic stock. The caliber's are in .223 and the very fast .204 caliber at 4000plus fps.

I also have a couple of the CZ shooters with set trigger, that is one excellent trigger at 1.5 pounds of pull. This one is in a light sporter and will print 3-shot groups under .400-MOA. in the .222 Rem caliber.
Posted by: Ron_AKA

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/08/10 01:39 PM

I have a Savage LRPV. It has a heavy fluted barrel, and AccuTrigger set at 7 oz.. It can produce 3 shot groups in the .1's at 100 meters. It is a 6BR, but I suspect the .223's shoot well too.
Posted by: mannyspd1

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/09/10 07:25 AM

You don't like the looks of this?

http://www.safariandoutdoor.co.za/images/18469.png

Search for the Model: 12 VLP DBM, under centerfire, model 12 varmint series...

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

Available in 1-7 or 1-9 twist in .223. Accu trigger, laminated stock, heavy fluted barrel.

Manny
Posted by: old70

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/09/10 08:59 AM

I'm very much a blue/walnut guy, not a fan of stainless unless it's coated, and not a big fan of laminate, though it's better than synthetic. I've owned my share of synthetic and laminate guns, just never warmed up to them, and they got sold.

Leaning toward the CZ at this point, as it looks more classic, but still undecided. I need to get my hands on these and see which feels better. Despite my appreciation for most things model 70, I won't consider the Winchesters that are out there, and won't do a Remington, it's a ford/chevy thing.

I do appreciate the input, thanks to all.
Posted by: sdgunslinger

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/10/10 04:17 PM

also take a look at the Ruger VT

to me the Savages seem overpriced these days for rifles built on a cost-cutter action .

the CZ s are good shooters with beautiful triggers , but you may , or may not like the detachable magazine .
Posted by: VarmintGuy

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/15/10 03:30 PM

Old70: I highly recommend you reconsider your bias against Remington!
I am currently shooting 11 (eleven) Varmint guns in caliber 223 Remington and 9 (nine) of them say Remington on the side!
I could NOT be happier with all nine of those Remingtons!
And I recommend you look around for a blued and wooded Remington 700 VLS!
I own one of these very Rifles and have recommended this same Rifle/model to at least 10 other folks over the last decade or so.
All those folks have been happy with their Rifles.
Now if its accuracy you are worried about let me quantify my recommendation a little bit.
Including ALL groups (5 shots at 100 yards), I have EVER fired with this Rifle they ALL produced an average groups size (5 shots at 100 yards) of .588"!
And remember this includes ALL load development testing as well as sight in verification groups!
The last group (5 shots at 100 yards) I fired with this Rifle measured .405"!
AND, this Rifle is "handicapped" by only having a Leupold 4x12 variable scope on it.
I strongly suggest you include Remington's in your considerations for a heavy barreled 223 Rifle.
Best of luck with whichever you choose!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Posted by: keith

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/15/10 04:57 PM

The Remington 700 VSSF is an extremely accurate rifle, and those stainless barrels are smooth inside.
Posted by: PaPa260

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/16/10 08:53 AM

Don't over look a Howa 1500. I have one with a varmint weight barrel chambered in 223 with a thumb hole stock that shoots very well. I bought it just to see how they shot and was very surprised. I would buy another one.

PaPa260
Posted by: old70

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/16/10 11:31 AM

PaPa260, I shot a Howa in .204 this weekend, and I may have to take a hard look at them, it seemed like a decent rifle.

VarmintGuy, I respect your position on Remingtons, but my bias is based on experience with numerous Remingtons, not just the Ford/Chevy thing. I've owned 4 model 700's, and have shot many, to include M-24's, and they just feel wrong to me. It is subjective, and anyone that likes and owns them, more power to you, enjoy. The only Remington bolt rifles I'll own are a 1903A3 in original military trim that I use for a cast bullet match gun, and my son's 513.

Thaks to all for the opinions, but I think I need to head to the shop to get a feel for several of the choices out there, and see what works best. I'll keep you posted.
Posted by: VarmintGuy

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/16/10 05:43 PM

Old70: Hope you will be happy with whichever Rifle you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/17/10 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: HawkI
Originally Posted By: Big Stick
Originally Posted By: HawkI
Sako L461 HB, AI or 75 HB.

The Kimber 84M is a HB gun that weighs like most sporters and shoot well too.


I love the A1-esque baby Sako's,except for their miserly mag confines. Couldn't stomach that concession Today.

I'd drive my Montucky against anything in the field.................


Yep. Best way around is 22 or 6PPC AI action/boltface and a properly twisted tube.....or just using the 222 case.

COAL particulars on that Montana after the mag box is fixed? Been wanting to punch one out.


Easy to arrange a 2.500"+ COAL,if inclined.

I'm kissing 75A-Max at 3100fps,shy of that.

Cracks me up,that these dumbschitts feign a phucking clue...............
Posted by: 5spd

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/18/10 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: old70
I've gotten the urge for a bull barreled .223 bolt action for a varmint rifle. My potential choices are very subjective, but Its a toss up between the Savage short actions (reputedly accurate, but not an attractive action, IMHO), and the CZ 527 (nicer looking).


I have owned 4 Savage .223 FP10s since 1984. I shoot 9-12K rounds a year just on p-dogs. Get the savage if you want a proven performer & very accurate firearm.
On top of that you can swap bbls to another caliber in 10 minutes also.
CZs Heavy bbl varmint guns are accurate also from what Ive shot/seen shooting. They are nice looking except for that god awfull looking magazine that hangs out from the stock.
Posted by: VarmintGuy

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/19/10 05:00 AM

Big Stick: YOU are not making YOURSELF clear - what caliber/cartridge are you referring to where you are getting - your quote: "I'm kissing 75A-Max at 3100fps,shy of that".
Your statement/posting seems drifty and ambiguous and self contradictory.
You are NOT relaying your "thoughts" clearly - at least to me.
Could you try again?
What "dumbschitts" are YOU referring to?
If I were prone to name calling I would be inclined to include you in the "dumbschitt" category?
A
Let me askyou this - are you capable of clear thinking and then are you at all able to "CLEARLY" relay that thought via typing and posting?
I don't know, it just seems hilarious to me that YOU are referring to some unknown person(s) as a "dumschitt"!
LOL.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Posted by: HawkI

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/19/10 12:12 PM

Thanks on the punch out info.

Agin' the clueless chime.....
Posted by: ratsmacker

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/20/10 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: PaPa260
Don't over look a Howa 1500. I have one with a varmint weight barrel chambered in 223 with a thumb hole stock that shoots very well. I bought it just to see how they shot and was very surprised. I would buy another one.

PaPa260



The one I wore out shot quarter-inch groups laugh with 322 and the cheap 50gr. SPSX bullets. Most of those were shot at prairie dogs. One heckuva rifle for the money, all it needs is a decent trigger, and Timney makes those. I worked that rifle awfully hard, and it never quit until the barrel got tired. I'm thinking hard about another one.
Posted by: Ron_AKA

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/20/10 04:35 PM

I'm betting a CZ does not shoot groups like this. These were three consecutive groups.

Posted by: Colorado1135

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/21/10 06:08 AM

I've had a couple of varmint rifles, literally just a couple. 2 savages and 2 remington. I too am not a remington fan, I like the versatility of the savages. maybe its because I'm poor by most standards around here and like the fact I can rebarrel myself if I am so inclined. also might have to do with the savages being just as accurate as anything else out there, the last one I sold to a friend because he "had to have it" shot groups of .3-.4 easily with 40 grain BT's. the 110fp in 223 I have now still needs to be fitted better in the thumbhole stock and be bedded before the verdict is finalized on it, but no doubt it will shine in its performance.
good accuracy can be attained regardless of the platform in general. so to say one brand is more accurate than another is IMO a little too broad. I've seen good and bad from a few different brands, its too wide of a paint brush to paint with. so go with one that fits you better, and what you want out of it now and a few years down the road.
Posted by: Tonk

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/21/10 08:34 AM

Ron I do have a CZ rifle in .222-Rem. that has shot .225 groups with factory ammo in those Hornady moly bullets. I don't even reload for that rifle. It is actually the truck gun, along with my .444 Marlin.

My Savages all shoot under .600-MOA Monday through Sunday! I am positive I can get the model 12's to shoot tighter, with a little more bench work. However, like I said: They are shooting very good and will be doing betting come the big P-Dog trip early next summer. It is great to own a rifle that is soooooo boring to shoot! I could close my eyes and still shoot under 1 inch groups.
Posted by: ratsmacker

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/21/10 09:52 AM

My CZ in .221 Fireball can dangnear do that, at least 1/4" groups. I think it's handicapped by my eyesight more than anything else. It's a sporter weight, too. Mighty fine little rifles.
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/22/10 07:51 PM

Originally Posted By: VarmintGuy
Big Stick: YOU are not making YOURSELF clear - what caliber/cartridge are you referring to where you are getting - your quote: "I'm kissing 75A-Max at 3100fps,shy of that".
Your statement/posting seems drifty and ambiguous and self contradictory.
You are NOT relaying your "thoughts" clearly - at least to me.
Could you try again?
What "dumbschitts" are YOU referring to?
If I were prone to name calling I would be inclined to include you in the "dumbschitt" category?
A
Let me askyou this - are you capable of clear thinking and then are you at all able to "CLEARLY" relay that thought via typing and posting?
I don't know, it just seems hilarious to me that YOU are referring to some unknown person(s) as a "dumschitt"!
LOL.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy


Your blatant stupidity,DO crack me up.

Thanks!................
Posted by: Tonk

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/23/10 09:43 AM

The new SAVAGE rifles are coming out shooting like benchrest run of the mill benchrest rifles. Well I am off to purchase another Savage rifle in .204 caliber for a lightweight rifle around the place, taking care of those foxes, coons opossums and alike, that .17HMR just didn't have what it takes in this hunters eyes.
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/24/10 12:32 AM

You bitching,or bragging?

Sounds to me,like you've lost another bet................
Posted by: 458 Lott

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/24/10 11:05 AM

Originally Posted By: old70
Thanks for all the advice, please keep it coming. Cost is an factor, I'd like to keep the whole package (with glass)in the 6-800 range if possible.


No offense, but I don't think you'll end up w/ suitable glass to take advantage of what a varmint rifle will offer in your price range. You might be able to do it if you are good at finding deals on used guns and glass, but IMHO you way you'll get something you'll be happy with new.

For instance, I came across an older rem 700 .223 varmint bdl at a gunstore for $500 and topped with a tasco 24x target scope. I got the rifle for $450, sold the scope on e-bay for $150, and sold the stock and bottom metal for ~$70. Traded into an LVSF stock, got an adl box from brownells for a few bucks, and a leupold 3.5-10 for ~$350 and put it in talley lightweights. So I have a varmint rig for ~$650.
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 11/24/10 04:49 PM

The Weaver T-series rates a fiscal thunk,if their concessions don't slam too many windows of opportunity.................
Posted by: Tonk

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 12/06/10 09:21 AM

Big Stick now what difference would it make to you if I where
BUD??? You best go put another log on the fire hey!
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 12/07/10 05:43 PM

I dig watching you walk into things,continually bumping your head and wondering why.

Keep it up(please)..................
Posted by: Tonk

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 12/07/10 09:48 PM

Big Stick are you getting real comfortable by that fire? I would not want you to catch cold Big Daddy. I think it is time for another log on the fire too.
Posted by: Big Stick

Re: Recommendations for a Heavy Barrel .223? - 12/08/10 07:38 AM

Your insecurities are wellfounded.

Close the yap,take notes and you'll learn sumptin'...............