I just picked up a winchester model 70 223 wssm with dies and a bunch of brass at a price too good to pass up. I have heard that the case necks splitting is an issue with this round. Any thoughts from people shooting these. How often should I anneal the brass and is overheating the case head a special concern on such a stumpy round?

Thanks
Brandon

The WSSM brass Winnie markets is complete and utter shyte.

I used to anneal after 1 firing, and sometimes before ever loading. Some of the WSSMZone board guys anneal after every firing. I didn't go that far.

Yes, the shorter distance to the case head means it takes less time for the heat to migrate there. Plus, the MUCH thicker brass takes longer to heat up. Because of this, I annealed either with the cases standing in water, or at a minimum with me holding them with a wet cloth.

is the federal brass any better?

Never used it. It was made for Federal by the same outfit, whoever it is, that makes the Winchester brass (Olin corp sold its global brass business a few years back, but even at that one never knows what outfit on what continent is making any particular brass for any of the major headstamps). Nevertheless, it _could_ be made to a different specification and/or tolerance. The WSSMZone guys generally regarded it as massively better, for what that's worth.

I'd be interested in knowing the long-term on this, Dude. I was instantly turned off by the neck wall thickness on the WSSM 223, and it wasn't long after that I was hearing about relatively poor gas sealing unless the loads were full-power stiff.

I've done a fair amount of reloading for the WSSMs, lots for the 25, some for the 223, but none for the 243.

As far as brass goes, make mine Federal. The Winchester/Olin brass has very thick necks and you do have to run the load at maximum pressures to get them to expand and seal, otherwise you get smoked necks. The Federal brass has much thinner necks. I have around 1,000 pieces that I've necked up to use in my 25 WSSMs. Some of it has been reloaded x8 and I think that I've lost less than 10 pieces due to split necks. I'm running the 75 grain VMax around 3,600 fps with H4895, close to the maximum recommended load and very accurate.

Jeff

260, I'm curious, did you ever try neck turning on any Winchester WSSM cases? To thin the necks.

No, I went straight to Federal 'cause it was really inexpensive. I think that I bought 8,000 pieces of Federal WSSM brass when Graf & Son was closing it out.

Jeff

All of this is very interesting. I've been using Winchester brass in my .223 WSSM, and usually anneal other cases after 5 firings and resizings. So far I haven't fired any of this brass more than four times, and none of the necks have cracked.

Tonight I decided to do an experiment. My sizing die is s standard Redding FL with an expander ball. I took a case that had been fired 3 times and resized it over and over again. This isn't quite like firing and resizing, but it does flex the neck at twice, once when it's sized down, and then when it's pulled over the expander ball. I planned to resize the case until the neck cracked, but after 20 cycles I grew weary of the experiment and decided to quit, because there were no cracks. My guess is was that with the case already being fired three times, this was approximately equivalent to 10 firings and resizings.

I have three different batches of brass, some from a couple boxes of factory ammo, some purchased new at a store, and some given to me by another gun writer. I've found the neck thickness to be very consistent in all three, so much that I don't plan to turn the necks of any of the cases.

Dunno why the sooty brass at less than maximum loads would bother anybody, unless they bought a .223 WSSM to use reduced loads. But to me it's a cartridge for pushing bullets fast.

I had more than 1 box of factory 223 WSSM ammo split shoulders on firing (the factory original load, not a subsequent handload). I never had component brass split on me when I was handloading for the 25 WSSM, but I did experience sufficient spring-back in it after just 1 or 2 firings that it wouldn't hold bullets; they'd just drop right into the case. Annealing stopped that.

IMO, it is or was a factory preparation problem. One might hope that Olin's sub would have been whipped into shape after this many years.

8000?
Wow, you must really like the Super Shorts!
Point taken, MD, the WSSMs are supposed to be full-power. I guess it's a matter of preference -- otherwise we wouldn't have so darn many cartridges to pick from. I mean, I like my 22BR quite a bit -- and when I look at a WSSM, I always wonder what it would be like in 30 cal.

Me too ... but first I'll be doing a 338cal. Mind you, I'll be doing the dumb thing in a few days and shooting the donor 223WSSM ... God I hope it doesn't shoot well.
Cheers...
Con

I have 21 Winchester/USRA 70 WSSM and wanted to be sure that I'd have enough brass to last me for the rest of my shooting days. I also have 4K of new bagged Winchester/Olin 25 WSSM brass that I bought on close-out, but I prefer the Federal 223 and 243 WSSM brass as the basis of my 25 WSSM loads.

There are five Winchester/USRA 70s in 25 WSSM that I shoot regularly are:

1. 70 Coyote in a McM stock.
2. 70 Super Shadow parts gun with a 70 Coyote stainless barrel in a McM stock.
3. 70 Super Shadow parts gun with a 1-14" Shilen barrel in a McM stock.
4. 70 Super Shadow
5. 70 Stainless Ultimate Shadow in a McM stock.

The three heavy barrel rifles are primarily used for shooting pdogs and have either two or three hundred cases assigned. Those cases stay with that one rifle until they need to be replaced or the rifle is sold.

Winchester/Olin loaded the WSSMs at, or very close to, maximum safe operating pressures, so reloading them for more speed with the same bullet weights isn't really a viable option. I load my varmint rounds with 75 grain bullets from Sierra and Hornady, and my deer rounds with 100 grain bullets from Hornady and Nosler. I have used other bullet weights in the 75 to 120 grain range, but like the two that I settled on as they meet my reloading aim of seeking a balance of accuracy, penetration, and velocity potential. For example, I could load faster than I do, but accuracy suffers more than I'm willing to accept. I've been reloading for over forty years and am comfortable with the routine/methodology that has worked for me.

Jeff

260, I thought I was gunny but you have my butt kicked but good.
Have fun.

I bought most of the Winchester/USRAA 70 WSSM from CDNN 'cause I figured that the WSSMs weren't going to be popular and in twenty or thirty years NIB 70 WSSMs will be in demand from collectors. Time will tell.

Jeff