Rifle: RRA w/ match trigger, Lilja 1-8 .223 Wylde barrel 22"



Load: 70 gr. VLD, 25.2 grs. Varget, 7 1/2 primers 2.260" MV 3,000 fps. 2 mil elevation

No crimp @ 400M



Crimp (lee factory crimp die) @ 400M




This isn't the only bullet that runs better with the crimp..
Take it FWIW.

Interesting....

Which other bullets are showing the same results?

40 gr. Varmageddons over a max load of Xterminator.

On annealed brass, too.

70 gr, VLDs over 24.5 grs. looked better with crimp, but load needs more juice to see end results.

Do you have a runout gauge?

I"m wondering if the crimp eliminated some runout, or if it evened out the neck tension.

No run out gauge .. annealed brass.

Mixed headstamps.

Mixed headstamps? Wow.
Clearly, the crimp is doing something at the start of the cycle that matters. If it works -- do it, I guess.
Was that crimp group with the same scope settings at the same target in the same conditions?

Only thing different was the bit of wind. 10x Superchicken Mil/Mil scope.

Headstamps are mostly PMC, WW, and RP for the 70 gr. VLD test.

Headstamps for the 40 gr. VG's are anything I can get my hands on, commercial and milsurp, .223 and 5.56.. (grin)

I had a .30-06 a few years ago that loved crimps on 168 gr. TSX's, ambivalent about them on all other loads.

I thought it was interesting that this tube seems to like crimps.

P.S.. Crimp and no crimp loads shoot identical at 100 yds, so it might be fixing a bit of runout.

Brass is typically collet sized and loaded few times before annealing and FLS to repeat the process.

Considering how you're shooting a Lilja barrel and the crimp improves your groups size, you might benefit from an upgrade to some match dies.

The mixed headstamp isn't helping any either. Sometimes that will cause the duel groups like you are seeing in the first photo. Different neck thicknesses can lead to differing neck tension. The crimp could also be evening this out.

I'm a brass whore. I can't change who I am.

Not that there's anything wrong with that......so am I.

I just sort mine rifle brass by headstamp

I sort by headstamp when accuracy matters. I'm a brass whore too, but I keep the various makes separate, so that when I load a batch, I know that at least the brass dimensions are similar. Can't imagine chasing accuracy with mixed headstamps, particularly at 400. It's fairly easy to have enough of each headstamp on hand to load up a few hundred of one or the other, and your chances of shot-to-shot variation go way down.

Oh, on your crimp/no crimp question, I got a Lee crimper for my heavy 223 for s&g and it was a waste of time. My favored loads were ruined for accuracy, growing from half-inch to inch, when I attempted various crimps. Now I don't bother. Some guys swear by them, but I'm not one of them. I've heard that the crimp cleans up wider velocity spreads, but I did not see that either, or they were as tight as they were going to go.

Who said I was chasing accuracy?

I see your sample of one defeats mine..

No offense intended. I know you know your schit. You were shooting at 400. You have a gun with a target barrel. Pretty obvious you want to hit stuff smaller than a basketball. I was just commenting on the way I do things, and how I use my whore'd brass.

If your crimper works for you, then use it. Just offering my experience. No defeat involved. I tend to agree with Antelope sniper that your results may have had more to do with standardizing across different neck thicknesses than with any particular merits of the crimper. If you are getting the results you want, please, by all means, continue.

I notice at around 300yds that various headstamps start to shoot to different places. I get around that by not mixing them, as I like to shoot my 223 past 300, and at tiny targets. I use same load and settings, but it is obvious that some brass generates more pressure. I tried dropping charges slightly with heavier brass, but it all got to be a records-keeping exercise rather than a loading/shooting exercise, so I just keep them in separate boxes, and verify impact when I shoot a different headstamp. Works for me.

I was just playing around.. This barrel is ridiculously accurate. So I decided to start doing things you're not supposed to do.

I'll be buying some new brass soon, and I'll run that load out of the box, fire formed w/ collet sizing, and crimps/no crimps for chits and giggles.

That should be fun!!

I look forward to your report.

LC is good brass, and the price is right! I do have some fancy Lapua brass loaded up, but I never seem to get around to shooting those. I haven't scrounged many cases that are just crap. For that reason, I think the 223 is the ideal to build a target/varmint rifle. Sweet rig you have there btw, Loco.

Snooping around the site and catching up a little today while I'm waiting for my PC to process some stuff and came across this thread.

I've found that 77gr SMKs actually shot better with a bit of crimp when using TAC. I have no idea why, but it sure worked for me and some other guys that were using that combo.