I traded into a 243 WSSM barrel from a friend. It is a 14" twist. What bullets will work at 5000' elevation and WSSM vels??
Are there any "deer" bullets that will work in this barrel??

Typically where I see that twist is in BR rifles, and they are shooting 68 grain pills. I have a 12 twist 243 and it has never stabilized anything over 85 grains 55-75 were great.

I'd try the 95 grain Nosler Partition, first. Then the 85 grain if I couldn't get that to stabilize/shoot.

Remington makes an 80 grain PSP which is fairly short. If you can find them they make be worth a try.

That's a terrific idea, of course they won't stabilize in a 1-14" twist.

I don't know that there are any deer bullets for that twist. 62-68gr target bullets is probably what the barrel was made for. A 70gr BT in the lungs might work. Lots of 70 HP bullets that would turn lungs into soup.

This isn't the barrel for me, I think I'm gonna sell it.

The faster you push the 6mm bullets the slower the twist you can get by with . I would try the 85 gr Partitions in your 223 WSSM before i sold the rifle if i was you . 1&12 is my favorite twist in the 6mm's

Sorry but you are wrong.

CowboyBart,

The 85 Partition should stabilize at 5000 feet--unless it's below freezing.

I believe that Nosler has a 80 grain partition also.
I wouldn't trust any cup and bullet that light in 6mm on deer, unless limited to head shots - between the ear and eye for instance.

My experience with the 244 is that bullets that were too long and shouldn't be able to shoot didn't shoot too bad.

I'm saying that I'd try a bullet that was marginal according to ballistic computers may surprise you.

Never say never until you try it

No, Nosler doesn�t make an 80-grain 6mm Partition. Check out their website. Some computer twist programs aren�t worth much, but there is one really good one, on the Berger Bullets website, devised by the late Don Miller.
A number of 6mm spitzers in the 100-grain range will stabilize in .244 barrels, but it�s usually because they�re being shot at relatively high elevations (and even 2500-3000 feet above sea level makes a considerable difference), especially on warm days. The same computer program shows this.
Some .244�s even had 1-10 twists.

Not in the least ace, I ain't guessing.

I've heard before. It won't work. Then it did somehow. But the computer said it wouldn't??? Why do you suppose???

The computer program says it won't work. It seems that people (maybe not you Steelhead) believe the computer no matter what. Computers and programs are a good thing, but when someone writes a program, the quality of what comes out depends on the quality of the program and the assumptions of the programmer or user. I'd use the programs as a guide. I'd rather be at the range testing loads. The programs are based on physics but I believe that a constant that is used came from someone's observation. Finally, there are variables that the programmer may not have thought of.

As I recall shooting the expermenting with that 244 was at about 3300 feet elevation (Sturgis SD). That was about 35-40 years ago when there wasn't near as many fine bullets on the market and I eventually sold that rifle to pay for something. But it shot some appropriate bullets that were as good as or better than factory loads from 243's that people used. People said the 244 wouldn't work, but it could and it still can.

Now, I'm tempted to rebarrel a 6mm to the 14" twist and do some experimenting. I mainly use my 6mm's for varmints anyhow. One of them could have a 14" twist barrel. That might take a year or so...

Maybe a writer (I enjoy his articles) could beat me to the punch. Besides I have three rifles that I recently bought that I have not put on paper yet. (7mm Mag, 204 Ruger and a 35 Remington) and then there's deer, muzzle loader, and antelope season, no elk tag this year.

I believe results on paper (target paper that is).

When people tell me that I can't, I gotta try and sometimes I do - it's a character flaw which really pissed off my dad when I was a kid.
;-)

Oh yeh, I was wrong about the 80 Grain Nosler partition. I couldn't find it when I did a google search.

I don't guess, they don't work at sea-level.

mebbe you should be harder-headed, and try guessing more. It might piss off dad....

If your serious - this is the barrel for you:

Lilja 6mm barrel in 243 WSSM. S/S, bull contour, fluted, 24� 14� twist, Threaded for 700. 7lb 2 oz. 127 rds fired. If you cut the chamber at the shoulder to rechamber and rethread, you will still have an inch or so before you get into the flutes. This is double fluted, one skinny flute, on fat flute, on skinny flute...

Because your in SD and close, $230 puts it on your doorstep.

Bugger,

I know this particular twist program works because I have tested it a lot against actual shooting, in barrels where I'd carefully measured the twist. Like Steelhead, I ain't guessing.

The program says that at 3300 feet the 1-12 twist of the .244 should stabilize a 100-grain Sierra GameKing--though not by much. How's that for verifying your shooting?

Not a bad idea to try the 85 NPT and see what it does.

In my experience, speed helps but is a poor substitute for twist.

DF

I just have the barrel, I don't have a 700 to go with it. My intentions were to cut 1.2" off and rechamber to 6-284 and put it on a 98 action. However, another 6-284 project is # 37,493 on my list of projects, so it has LOW priority. I don't want to try to get a 98 to feed a WSSM case and if I find a SA 700, I would build a 6.5 something on it.
I think if I sold it now it would be worth more than if I shortened, rethreaded and rechambered it, found out it wasn't what I wanted and sold it then. It looks like the WSSM bests the 6-284 by about 30-90 FPS. I don't know if a 6 RSAUM will give you much more or if you reach the diminishing returns plateau for the 6mm bore.

I'm kinda thinking that too - even at 6-284 vels.

I'd punt

That sounds like something I could believe. I mostly shoot Sierras at targets anymore. But that Sierra bullet is long enough to indicate the 244 can shoot bullets designed for deer.

I have only shot M60, M37, M14 and M16's at sealevel or close to sea level. So I have no experience with testing different twists etc at sealevel.

I don't suppose that you would provide the name of the program. I'm not against using a good program, but what I've seen not so much.

What length of bullet does your program say the 6mm with a 14" twist at say 3400 ft per sec. If you're saying the longest bullet is a 58 grain Hornady, then I concede.

The 243 WSSM should be abel to push a 80 grain bullet to 3600 fps, I suppose. I don't think that there's any appropriate bullet for deer shorter than most 80 grain bullets.

The NPT 85 grain @ 5000 ft. 59 degrees, 3400 FPS has a stability factor of 1.1, @ 32 Degrees its 1.02 in other words its marginal at best as 1.5 is considered stable. Minimum suggested twist is 1 in 11.5 per Berger. Sierra says 1 in 12.5

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

Looks like 80 grains and length of .810 is your huckleberry. NBT Varmint

This barrel belongs on somebody else's rifle. It is now officially for sale!!

Well maybe someone who hunts where deer are antelope sized could use it and a Hornady 75 grain HP....

seems like some old timers around here, like those 75 grain HPs for blacktails...and start their grandkids out on them....

Well, just look at the .223, .223AI deer hunters and how they brag on their choice. Makes the 75 gr. 6mm look like a "big gun". I'd for sure select well constructed bullets, staying away from explosive, varmint type projectiles.

Just saying...

DF

What?

I owe Steelhead an appology for my reply. Sorry Ace.

People say I often use guns that over-kill. I suppose I do, but when I look at the deer/antelope/elk lying on the ground I can't see any evidence of over kill. What does it look like?

I know what it looks like with prairie dogs however.

Yeah...

I don't think Bugger was implying that you were an ole Fart or something, using a kids gun to shoot deer...

DF

Ain't no trick killing if you can shoot. If you can't shoot, then what you use don't matter much.

For some odd reason the concept of putting a good bullet where it belongs escapes many.

Big hole, lots of daylight...

DF

Not meaning to imply anything about someone else. We all have had experiences that lead us to some kind of opinion. A person's opinion is nothing to making fun of. They came by it through experience, hopefully.
Personally, I just don't use the smallest lightest caliber that will kill or I'd be using a 22LR, perhaps a 22 Hornet.
I have used a 300 Win Mag on deer, but only once. I was expecting possibililties of very long shots. It turns out I shot both deer on that trip at under 100 yards and a 30-30 would have been totally sufficient. The 300 evidently over-killed, I guess. My preference for Western deer hunting is a 280 with 154 grain bullets or a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets. But there's nothing wrong with many other calibers/cartridges. I could be as happy with my 7x57, but the stock is too pretty to be dragging through brush. I have used 6 mm on antelopes and am confident it would also work on deer -- I would be using a well crafted bullet in 6mm designed for penetration and expansion. In my experience 75 grain HP's not be one I'd likely use.

Besides I'm an old fart. Calling someone else an old fart would not be an insult.

One ole fart messing with another ole fart...

Just had to take a poke at Steelhead...

Couldn't help myself...

DF

You're golden if hunting vampire deer.

Wouldn't one need a wooden stake for that kinda work...??

DF

Daylight kills vamps, not deer.

In a 6mmBR built with a 14" twist 6mmPPC take off barrel, I can get 65 gr Vmax to always stabilize, and only sometimes the 75 gr Vmax.

This being a bull and fluted probably not ideal for a youngster to learn on. This is a "target" barrel, I just don't shoot in competition. My 243 Encore has a 10" twist (I think) and with 100gr Sierra GameKings, kills antelope before they hit the ground. I was hoping something like that bullet would work in this barrel - but NOT!!
I don't have a 700 action laying around to pair this with, so it goes in my "barrels for sale" category.
Should be a really nice barrel in competition - I think there is a rifle sport for 300yds or so ?

I shot a 244 AI with a 1-14 twist and it stabilized the 80g Sierra Blitz just fine at 3700+ fps.

Winchester makes an 80g sp that is a dandy deer bullet out of a 243.

Wonder if a partition would open up if it key holed through an animal?

I would shoot a 70g Hornady Sp if you could find any or the 80g Winchester which is a very tough bullet.