I chronographed a few loads with Lil' Gun powder today and I am surprised at the velocity from my new .17 Hornady Hornet with 20 grain V-Max. My load with 9.7 grains resulted in 3812 and 3770 fps. My load with 9.8 grains resulted in 3810 fps. These velocities are considerably higher than loads shown by Hodgdon. They show 3629 fps with 10 grains of Lil' Gun. I don't think my chronograph is suspect because my loads with Win 296 were consistent with published data from Hornady. I am getting an average of 3460 fps with 9.3 grains of W296 which compares to published vel of 3500 fps from Hornady. I am using Rem 7 1/2 primers which is different than primers used by Hodgdon and Hornady. Has anyone encountered velocities like this with Lil' Gun in their .17 Hornet? Thanks.

In my CZ rifle 10.0 grains got just over 3700 from its 22" barrel, and I was also using 7-1/2's. The primer can make a considerable difference in pressures in such a small case. (A friend reported 10.0 grains as obviously too hot in his rifle, but I dunno what primer he used.)

In my rifle A1680 and H4198 turned out to be the two best powders with 20's. A1680 matches the factory velocity with fine accuracy, but gets a little squirrely on a hot day from a hot barrel. H4198 is about 100 fps slower but just as accurate, and more stable on warm days.

Thanks for the response Mule Deer. I am happy with the accuracy I'm getting with W296, so I may concentrate on that powder for now. I am anxious to try A1680 if I can ever find any. I feel fortunate to have recently found W296 and Lil' Gun.

The first pound of lil'gun gave me great accuracy and 3700 at 10 grains. The second pound (diff lot) was crazy as heck, just like yours. Down to 9.2 grains and 3600 with the 20 vmax..... Different primers didn't make much change. Like you I'm on the hunt for some 1680.

Huntsman,

I haven't done any substantial primer test in my .17 Hornet yet, but found they made a substantial difference in my .22 Hornet Ruger 1B. A couple years ago I tried the Federal 205M, CCI 500, CCI BR-4 and CCI 450 with 40-grain Tipped Varmageddons and 13.0 grains of Li'l Gun.

The accuracy differences weren't all that much (though the pistol primer shot worst), but the velocities were substantially different, running from just over 2900 (205M) to around 3150 with the CCI 450.

I'm going to run a similar test with the .17 Hornet sometime, partly because I got 5000 Tula small rifle primers for a really good deal and so far am pretty happy with them in other rounds.

MD - I've been wondering how the Russian primers (Tula/Wolf) fare against the regular players (CCI, Federal, Winchester, etc.).
Have you done any testing of these?

Thanks

I started my load development with WSR primers and got two pierced primers in the first twelve shots. These happened at significantly less than Hornady published max loads. I switched to Rem 7 1/2 primers and no more pierced primers.

I've shot them quite a bit in various cartridges. They're very good, performing right alongside those other brands in most loads I've worked up with other primers in cartridges like the .17 Fireball, .221 Fireball and .223 Remington. Of course, some loads work better with one primer over another, but I'm certainly including the Tulas in any of load work-ups from now on.

The model I bought is the standard small-rifle primer, which has a copper cup that's on the thin side, so Tula doesn't recommend them for AR use. But I haven't had any problems with them in bolt rifles. Have shot several hundred so far with no misfires, pierced primers, or anything else.

MD - thanks for the response. It seems Tula and Wolf primers are more readily available than the old stand-bys. Might have to give them a try!

This post is a little old but thought I would add my 2 cents.
Rifle Savage 25, 24" barrel. Elevation 4000 ft. Air temp. 62 deg. Bright sun, wind calm. 4 shot groups because that's what the mag. holds and single loading is difficult to impossible. Components duplicate Hornady book load, Fed. 205M, 20gr. V-Max, Once fired Hornady brass.
LiL Gun,
9.5gr. 3606 fps. .64 group
10.0gr. 3758 fps. .88 group Stopped here 9.5 was best accuracy.
H4198,
11.8gr. 3476 fps. .53 group Hornady max load velocity close to theirs.
12.0gr. 3510 fps. 1.5 group stopped here. I believe shooter (me)
influenced group size.
1680,
11.5gr. 3509 fps. .43 group .3 gr. over Accurate book max.
12.0gr. 3646 fps .85 group Load from J.B. article in Handloader Different primer than he used. Velocity much higher than his.
Hornady factory load listed as 3650 fps. clocked an even 3600 fps from my rifle. Average group size for 3, 4 shot groups was .55 inch. They make it a little tough to better their accuracy. Will be shooting a some of these loads again to see if accuracy holds up.

Boltgunjim,

You need to drop your load down to 9.3 - 9.4 grains of Lilgun with 20grain pill. This will put you at 3600fps and will not bulge your brass.

Your chrono is very close, it is reading right. if you can find it , Accurate 2200 is about the best fit for powder with the 20-25grain bullet.