Anyone have any experience with this?


Do I need to build one?

I think it will push like weight bullets just a tad slower. Win?

I was bored....

In that case, make damn sure you AI it.

Ive got a new donor action sitting in the corner staring at me.....

Damn you....

You can go out and buy the perfect gun/cartridge combination, I will give you one guess what it is...

Of course, Mr. Shrapnel is referring to a Rem. Model 721 in .270 Win.

Tom,

The .20/.222 is also known as the .20 VarTarg Turbo, which may or may not make you feel like it's something special.

.22-204. All the cool kids are doing it.

222 magnum, kicking everyone else's ass for over 50 years...

nah.....223 AI...28" & 9 twist.....53 V max

I don't know if I need to feel that special........


Just gonna have to stare at this donor for awhile this winter to decide whats going to happen...


Was thinking deuce mag, but I keep getting rumors of some guy in Bozeman buying up all the brass....

There is plenty spread all around southwest Montana, I have so much that I just let it fall to the ground or where else it piles up...

He didn't BUY up all the brass....

Maybe, just maybe, he had enough respect for a cartridge that was Uber, when Uber wasn't cool.....

'The only thing worse than not appreciating the 222 Mag is necking a 222 down to .204"-Aristotle

Recently got a barrel back and mounted on a Ruger Action...

With tons of 223 brass, and due to there being a shortage of 22 caliber bullets when Obama first got re elected.. but 20s were available... I had a 20 Practical Built...

instead of the 20 Tactical that a lot of people were ranting about, I like the idea of the Practical that just required necking down 223 brass to 20 caliber...

had a 204 barrel on this rifle before but 204 brass hasn't been seen at local stores for quite a while...

my intentions were 32 grain bullets, 34 HPs, 26 gr Barnes and 24 grain NTX Hornady bullets...

What did I tell you a week or so ago Ingwe, you'll be able to tell the f a gs soon. They will be the ones telling you 222 Remington magnum...

I can let you know in a few weeks. I am building its little brother - a .20 VarTarg. From what I read and hear it is the cat's a$s for crows and groundhogs which accounts for about 95 percent of my shooting.

What's not to like? Same accuracy or better than the FireBall. 3800 fps with a 32 grain pill and only a pinch of powder.

More Uber than the Hornet, and that's saying something.

go straight 223AI, with a slow twist barrel - like a 24 twist.

Load your rounds with trail boss and a single #FF buckshot.

I call it the "223WTF".

$10 says Seafire is checking his stash of Trail Boss as I type.

Do you think I could get Seafire to give me some Blue Dot loads for it?


That way I could get the speed down so slow Id never burn the barrel out and wonder WTF the bullet went every time I pulled the trigger.

and only 9 seconds apart.

That, is cart golf.

Did I mention the 6x45 yet? Another advantage, you don't have to fumblephuck around with those itty-bitty 20 caliber bullets.

I vaguely remember some mention of that....


Seems awful big though.It might kick me.

Jackrabbits




to deers...

And I don't think Seafire has come up with any Blue Dot loads yet.

Geez...thats almost as good as a .223AI...


Do you know how much money you've already cost me you bastid?

But look at the fun you've had!

You can't trump the 223/AI for best on the .378 casehead. Everything else is just everything else. I built the 6x45 for a few of those states, should I ever go, that don't allow 22's.

It really is a fun cartridge. I have no desire to mess around with tiny bullets as I get older

just take a 223 AI case, neck it up to 270, and rock on, big guy...

Valid points all.

I don't mind messing with the .20s but I do mind having to use a different powder funnel, cleaning rod etc...

But Im so impressed with the .204 that Im sure there will always be one in the stable...past that...not so sure about other 20s

What makes you so mean this morning?


You need to go get that puppy and starting feeling warm and fuzzy.

I have one 17, love to shoot it, had to p huck with it. It needs to become something else, all that specialty crap is a pain.

I figure since you already have a 243 (last I knew) a 6x45 makes perfect sense.

I do have a .243....its the perfect sense that I lack.

Stash of Blue Dot Dummy... not Trail Boss...

They make Trail Boss for Tennessee Transplants, who can't figure out the ins and outs of Blue Dot usage...

But don't let it worry ya... got plenty of Blue Dot on hand.. and even more SR 4759.... doing real well on RL 7 and both of the 4198s...

so you owe Ingwe $10...

Sweet.

Anyway, what's the blue dot special for buckshot in a 223 case?

any time...

a little tip tho, don't close your eyes when you pull the trigger, and flinch over the anticipated recoil of those Blue Dot loads and you'll see where the bullet goes every time...

ya can thank me later..

For you I'd recommend 2 grains...but I have to warn ya, the recoil is quite stout... not for the faint of heart...

or city boys...

or Yankees...

or Yankees who move down south and think that doesn't make them Yankees anymore...

Compelling, not so much on the powder, but that it's the first time I've seen you make 2 posts in a thread without whining about Stick.

The whining is strong with Seafire. She's nothing if not amusing. Can't wait for the next installment on 'Who tried to steal my POS car'

Speaking of whining. Wheres my $10

Wrong again....

you owe Ingwe another $10....

so that is a $20 spot you owe him so far...


but I do have a question for the general floor here...

why does the guy in the yellow shirt and the rabbit have the same look on their faces?.. its like they are related or something....

Where's the dividing line between Yankee and Midwesterner?

I'll need this info before I reload.

I always get a kick out of Midwesterners....


The Midwest is someplace around Denver....

Awwwww it just seems that way to you, since you are always lurking on Schmuck's threads looking to see when it is that I give him his crap right back...

you forget, Schtick's my hero... he's Friggin AWESUM.... just ask him....Mac Davis wrote a song about Schtick...he was so impressed with him....



Schtick was so impressed with it.. he bought 10 million copies to give to all of his groupies.... Did you get your copy/copies?

that is one of those " if you have to ask, you don't have the capacity to understand" type of questions...

my recommendation... put you hands up and step away from the reload bench...

you can thank me later...

Ingwe,

I know two centuries is a long time and you have acquired a fair amount of wisdom in that span. But please hear me out...

You're just rehashing the same old schit. It's time to expand out of the peasant realm. First thing, order a suppressor.

Next thing, build a Blackout. It's obvious you've found love in North Mexico and I can assure you, you'll have far more fun with this rig, in that country, than you ever will with another same ol', same ol'.

Take the plunge.



Travis


PS- Don't use the guy in Helena.

I was hoping to just borrow yours when I go to Tejas....

Wrong Guess....

for inquiring minds....

20 Practical and Blue Dot

Rifle used: Ruger 77 Mk 2

Barrel: 22 inches

Primer used: Winchester Small Pistol

Bullets used: Hornady 32 and 40 grain V Maxes.


32 grain Vmax:

5grs: 1588 fps
6grs: 1849 fps
7grs: 2012 fps
8grs: 2300 fps
9grs: 2472 fps

10grs: 2709 fps
11grs: 2890 fps
12grs: 3012 fps
13grs: 3212 fps
14grs: 3372 fps


40 grain Vmax

6grs: 1734 fps
7grs: 1966 fps
8grs: 2197 fps
9grs: 2321 fps

10grs: 2546 fps
11grs: 2709 fps
12grs: 2874 fps
13grs: 2892 fps
14 grs: 3140 fps

I can add you to the trust.

PM for pricing.



Travis

Nice, I was referring to the 6x45 ace.

If you two kids don't stop this, Im gonna pull this car over!

So what, I am supposed to be a mind reader....on the internet no less?

the thread is about 20 cal, no 6mm...

ACE....

ya still owe Ingwe $20 tho...

20 this, 6xQueer that; stick with a friggin .224....and twist it, none of that 1-10 crap....

What twist is on your Deuce Mags? I think they come from the factory with 1 in 14 or am I confused? And if you replaced them, what ROT did you go to?



P.S. I have a 1 in 10 on a .223 and I love it......

Oregonians have always suffered from reading comprehension.

Hawk ain't wrong, hard to trump a 223/AI with an 8 twist, in fact damn near impossible.

Just stay away from that bastard 222RM.

What he said, except the obvious...

I have a 1-9, but would do a 1-8 every time over the 1-9; I've never had issues with the 75 A-Max shooting great, but would hedge even more.
At the time, I barreled it for 69 grainers.

Sako used a 1-12 on their .223's and 222 Mags, not that it gains anything over a 1-14. Remington used the 1-14.

I'm a Virginian there Senior Chief...

just happen to live in Oregon...

my reading comprehension is just fine...

my mind reading not so much....

on the other hand, how's your communication capabilities?

My 1 in 9 twist on my factory Savage BVSS had no problem stabilizing any 80 grain bullet put thru it...so don't let that handicap ya if that is what yours has...

but if you are going to do a barrel, a 1 in 8 cost no more than the one in 9.... so go with the 1 in 8...or you can do what I did with my first 223 fast twist and go with a one in 7... I did that since that is what some of the military AR barrels where twisted at...so I thought what the hell...

The rifle got given away, but kept the barrel and had it rechambered to a 22.250....

I didn't know that about Sakos...and I have noticed a difference between the 1 in 12 and the 1 in 14....

Likewise the 1 in 10 I mentioned that I loved was built with 68 and 69 grainers in mind....which it shoots well indeed.


But again...the 1 in 8 digests everything I put in it.....

Yeah, but take your 1-12 to Texas with those 68-69'ers and you won't! I think 60-65grs. is about all the universal goody a 1-12 gets here.

At my present eles, temps and density, I've had NO issues with my 1-9 and bullets up to 77 grs; some of which can spin easier than the 75 A-Max.

I don't think .478 cases can do much better with bullets heavier/slicker than the 75 A-Max, unless we're talking maybe a 5.5x50 Magnum (I wish those cases weren't dodos)....meaning I'd not go faster than 1-8 unless a 22-250 case or larger. Even then Ive seen the 1-8 Rocket cluster 1/2 MOA at 300 yards with the 90 VLD.

Always hedge on the twist....

Hedge on the twist is probably sound advice. But odd you mention Texas. Don't know about the temps and density but the last time Steelhead gave me crap about altitude I checked it. Where I was hunting in Texas ( both places) was higher in Elev. than I am here!


Oh, and the 68-69 grainers get shot in the 1 in 10....Though I had a 1 in 12 that shot them REALLY GOOD.....even I was confused at that....

I just wonder if it would make more sense to take a 204 Ruger reamer and run it in far enough that a 223 case could be sized to fit. The Practical seems a little short in the neck to me.
Maybe grind down a set of 204 dies?
I am getting a 204 custom reamer for a conventional re-do of a problem child Ruger 204, maybe when I am done with that I will conduct the experiment on another rifle.

6x45 is just the .223 necked up to .243 correct?

Tom,

Not that it makes any difference in this thread, but I keep wondering wonder what references you use for finding altitudes.

Sonora, Texas is at 1825 feet, which is only 5 feet higher than the LOWEST place in Montana, where the Kootenai River flows into Idaho. Even the highest point in Texas, Guadalupe Peak, is only slightly higher than Fort Benton on the Missouri River.

You also once posted that the Prickly Pear shooting range is at 4000 feet, but the Helena airport, down on the valley flats, is at just under 3900 feet, and the range is a noticeable drive uphill into the mountains. The USGS topographic map puts the shooting range's elevation at just about 5300 feet.

I checked Sonora and Van Horn Texas on google and it had them both over 4000 ft!

You mean I can't even trust the innanet????

I just checked again today John, Sonora has risen..Instead of your 1825 ft. It is now at 2129....significantly down from the 4023 I first found it at...but its trying to get better....


Maybe we should go down just to see the ebb and flow of things....



Van Horn is still at 4000 ft. which explains why when I aimed at the javelinas eyeball, I hit him in the eyeball....

Prickly Pear was a WAG...the top of Mac pass is only 6500...so I took a shot at it

Well, that explains a lot.

As a matter of fact I just rechecked the highest point in Texas, and one Internet source gives it in feet and one says its exactly the same in meters. Apparently it's actually over 8000 feet--but it's a long way from Sonora.

I do know the highest "peaks" in the Hill Country are around 2500 feet--but that's from being there with a GPS. The really low places are in East Texas. A few years ago I hunted near Cuthand, a tiny town in the northeast part of the state, not far from Texarkana, and the elevation was under 1000 feet. Of course, some parts of Texas are at sea level!

Same in feet as in meters.....I think you should check your source tomorrow and see if the numbers change!

Anyway...Im gonna shoot some pigs in Florida come February ...in two different places...but I think there I can personally measure the elevation with my dial calipers


If it aint under water, it'll be above see level.




Gotta say though, if figures are correct I was surprised with Van Horn.

Correct

Thank you - wanted to make sure I wasn't confusing it with some version of the 6.5x47 Lapua.

This is exactly why I've been telling you to hedge....you are being deplorable.

And I hope you're still not contemplating ruining perfectly good 222 cases...

And 8 twists spin 40's just fine.

Well...Im taking the 8 twist to Florida at sea level + 6 ft. or so...


To eliminate any possible problems....

No offense, but they're not the same and the .20/.222 is not known as the VarTarg. They are different cartridges, though load data is prolly close to identical. To form the .20-.222, you just neck it down with a bushing die, load and fire. Its kind of an odd looking cartridge 'cause the neck and bullet are so long, but there's no brass forming involved and its a flat shooter. I have one, but have never fired it; just repeading what I've read. With the VarTarg Turbo, you have to trim .100 off the mouth and blow the shoulder out a tad (change the angle).

Jordan

I think JBs post was tongue in cheek...

Mine won't...

If you wanna shoot 40's.....do it in a 20 cal......

Exactamundo....

You're starting to sound like a customer at the gun counter......

That was a real slam.


My feeler is hurt...



Trust me, you can't sound like a gun counter guy until you've recited a story about a family heirloom handed down over the generations that is now worth about $48 and has no bearing on any part of the conversation as it started.

And you also need a heaping dose of stupid pills before you come in.

I knew that would chap you....


My fav "gun story" is how the 7-30 Waters in a Contender was a more powerful arm than a 7 Mag Rem. 700, because it kicked more and was louder.

.20-222? Might as well build a 225 Winchester....or a 19 Calhoon...

I said I was bored!


Now....GFY

Wrongamundo, you can still get better velocity with the same bullet weight from the 22 caliber over the 20...

Yeah butttttt....we just hashed this out on another thread...its easier to get your voyueristic jollies in the 20 cal...least wise it is in my rifle and Johns rifle....


That was the upshot of that thread.



Besides, you should be busy cutting elk up.....





Bastid.

They spoiled last night driving them around through Boulder, Helena, Townsend and Bozeman. We were cruising up and down Main Street in all those towns and didn't get them home until they were spoiled. Thank goodness we got some pictures...

Well, hopefully you got enough slack jawed gawkers asking .....


" Dija git your elk?"

@*#$&*$&^#($&@^%^#$($)



Laffin'


Hint.............

I didn't originally think the 20 cal would catch on and I for one thought of it like the 17s. But after some raving reports from a few of my respected customers, I try's out a 20 tac and must say it might truly be the only varmint rifle needed. I think the 20 VT turbo would be great. Eventually I will try out one of each chambering..

20 Vartarg...525 yds.....19 grs powder & 40 V max...

Lapua brass now available....whats not to like....

Reloader 7??

They are, by and large, still intact....

H322 works or me...........

I love the carnage...

Thanks for the heads up on Lapua brass!

+1

but I burn a lot of RL 7 also...

I had one in 20-222AI Kevin Weaver calls it a 20Bobcat. Insanely accurate with N133 and anything you put on top of it. Don't have any data anymore because it went down the road with the rifle. Sold it because I had custom action 20 tactical. Fed great no mods in a 700BDL. 11 twist Pac-Nor spun everything including 55s. 35gr Berger knocked some coyotes in the dirt out to around 200yards.

Tom if you chamber for something named the 20 VarTarg Turbo, you're going to have to wear a pen protector in your shirt pocket, carry a slide rule, and put some tape on your glasses.

George, Ive got two out of the three going on now....

yeah, but they were all standing in the same spot, when he shot them with one bullet.

Seafire, what are you using for dies, for that 20 Practical?

1. Small Base 223 die
2. Hornady 20 cal neck sizing die
3. 223 seating die...

Think for the long run, I'm going to order the Redding 223 Bushing Die...