Co-worker and I are heading to South Dakota in late May for some prairie dogging. I'm happy with the rifles (calibers, loads, and rifle configurations) that I have and will take.

My co-worker on the other hand has it in his mind that he wants to take a 6mm/.243 for windier days and longer shots in the wind. That said, he does not yet have a 6mm/.243 and is currently chasing a barrel to build a rifle. Between us, we have spare 700 S/A and L/A actions and stocks. He's narrowed his choices to the .243 Win, .243 AI, 6mm Rem (possibly 6mm AI), and 240 Wby. He reloads so that's not an issue and best I can tell he's considering the 70-85(87) grain bullets (Blitz, V-Max, BTs) out of whatever he ends up with.

What recommendation(s) would those of you with P-dogging and 6mm/.243 experience suggest? Knowing my co-worker, whatever he build will be purpose built, strictly for P-dogging - no deer, antelope, etc.

I've not shot prarie dogs with my .243's but I've shot a bunch of sage rats and California ground squirrels. I'd go .243AI on a short action and 6-06 if I was building on a long action. The .243AI dupes a 6mm Rem and does it with easier to obtain brass.

The 87 Vmax does very well in the wind. Had them dumping basketball sized rocks at 808 and 940 yards yesterday in 20 mph winds. You don't get the impressive kills like you do with the higher velocity .22 stuff. Instead, it's a pretty healthy thump on the bigger valley squirrels. They are a little bit smaller than prairie dogs, but are huge compared to the sage rats.

Whichever way he decides to go will be fun. Hope you guys get into them thick.

For prairie doggin hands down my favorite 6mm is the 6BR. top accuracy plus you can shoot more rounds before before barrel heat becomes an issue, barrel life is also much better than the big 6's.

If you just have to go big then I prefer the 6mmAI or 6-284 with a 1-8" twist barrel for 95gr to 107gr VLD type bullets for the long shots.

Is he taking a smaller caliber for most shooting?

204 Ruger and 22-250 for the majority of shooting.

For PD I'd stay away from the barrel heat/wear/blast of an overbore like 6x57 or bigger.

Even a 243 is gonna be a bit much for that kind of volume.

Personally I'd run a 6-250 or 6BR for mild report, increased barrel life, and in the former ease of feeding.

I have a medium-weight 6-250 that I LOVE; just neck up 22-250 cases and rock. Can shoot that thing an aweful lot, and the report is significantly less than from a .243.

I've shot plenty of prairie dogs with a .243 (and much larger rounds) in the past, but don't used it much anymore, partly because even with a very accurate rifle the percentage of hits goes way down much past 300 yards, in typical conditions. Most of the prairie dogging I do anymore is on private land, where I get access because the owner wants the PD's reduced, not educated.

But if he really thinks a .243 will provide an advantage, I'd advise the AI. It tends to cut down on throat erosion a little due to the steeper shoulder angle concentrating the jet of hot gas more inside the neck, rather than out in front of the case mouth, and also vastly reduces the need for case trimming. Trimming a few hundred cases turns into a real PITA, real quickly, even with power trimmers!

Based on the conversation I had with my co-worker earlier this AM, I think he's leaning hard toward the 243AI. He likes the idea of the longer neck on 6mm Rem. However, he said he did a lot of searching last night and found that 6mm Rem brass is in somewhat short supply. That said and his words, "the 243 AI dupes the 6mm Rem and brass is a whole lot more plentiful."

The 6mm Rem AI in a long barrel produces some very impressive velocity (mine pushed 70gr @ 3900+fps), but it should be done on a long action if you want to use the heavier bullets.

Personally I don't feel the 243 gains enough in the AI version to be worth the hassle of fireforming and the extra cost of the dies, but it sure looks cool.

The 6mm AI loaded with a 70gr TNT:

If you're going to shoot pdogs on the Rosebud Reservation, I guarantee that it will be windy for some portion of your trip. I have driven there to shoot and, upon arrival, found that the wind was blowing so hard that it wasn't worth burning powder. Spent the night in either Valentine, NE, or White River, SD, and drove home without squeezing a single trigger. If you're going to eat in restaurants, the options in Valentine are to be recommended over White River every time.

6 Dasher with 105 Amax....Varget, R-15, H-4895.

6BR deserves a look, but a Dasher adds 150 fps, and keeps the attributes of the parent case, plus only burns 33 grains of powder.

Heart set on a 6mm for windy or LR shots ?

Think quick twist 6BR..Dasher..or 6XC (6mm/250)

You'll get tired real fast pulling the trigger on the 243AI

Muzzle blast...heat...recoil..cost per rd are not your friends

The 20's are where its at in the p/dog fields.....

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmbrimproved/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6xc/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/20caliber/

May of this year may be a bit optimistic to get a rifle built. I guarantee that you could buy an already made rifle in either 243 or 6mm Remington and shoot 75 grain bullets with great success. I would also look at a stock Sako heavy barrel in 243 and shoot better than all the paper and internet shooters will admit...

Yondering,

The "hassle of fire-forming"? All that needs to be done is load up a few hundred rounds of ammo in standard .243 cases and go prairie dog shooting. Hassle over with, including having to trim 'em.

In your best old world German . . . "Ve haav our vays".

In 6mm I started with a Sako L-461 Benchrest single shot rifle in 6mm PPC. A bit anemic but very accurate. Then came the California lead bullet ban, which revealed the Sako's 1:14" twist too slow to stabilize Barnes 62 grain Varmint Grenade, the only lead free available at the time.

Next I put a Shilen 1:10" twist 6mm PPC barrel on a Savage Precision Target Action. It too proved too slow for the long Varmint Grenade or heavier lead core bullets. Completely missed the target and when it hit, the bullets printed completely sideways.

So I tried a Brux 26" 6mm barrel with a 1:8" twist chambered for the 243 WSSM, a short fat case reminiscent of the PPC. With 49.5 grains of Ramshot Hunter and the Varmint Grenade at around 3,570 fps the smallest group it shot ran 10 shots into a 0.187" group at 100 yards. It is devastating on Eastern Oregon sage rats - they literally vanish, leaving rototilled soil beneath where they were and a short tunnel mowed into the alfalfa behind them. At 300 yards, in a quartering wind gusting up to 15 mph, even a low miss that landed beneath them blew them apart from the disintegration of the Varmint Grenade and fragments of small stones and sand. On Central California ground squirrels they died from close misses on oak bark that acted like a circular saw. The Varmint Grenade was doing it's job nicely. Problem being that only Winchester makes the brass on a seasonal basis, so I bought all I could find.

Now I am waiting for a new Brux 6mm barrel in 6mm PPC with a 1:8" twist to use up my supply of brass. It should do well with either the Varmint Grenade or Nosler 55 grain BT Lead Free offering.

I also am building another Savage with a 24" Krieger 6mm 1:8" twist barrel chambered for the 6mm BR Norma. This case has sufficient capacity to drive either bullet to somewhere around 3,500 to 3,700 fps, and is throated longer, or can be throated longer, to get the bullet seated out further. Good economical choice.

6mm Remington, another cartridge I played with back in the day is a good choice, and will fill the bill. Again, a 1:8" twist is best for a wider selection of bullets. Ditto the .243 Winchester.

Hint: The lead free Varmint Grenade's in .204", .223", and .243-6mm are by far the most accurate bullets I have shot. Same with the exquisite Nosler BT-Lead Free in the same calibers, and Hornady's little tiny 24 grain .204" NTX Boat Tail bullet. These bullets have very stable cores made from compressed powdered copper/tin that are a solid similar to stick chalk. They don't fly apart like lightly constructed lead core varmint bullets if driven too fast. I have shot the .204" 26 Grain Varmint Grenade at a measured 4,110 fps into a 10 shot 0.250" group from a 1:8.5" twist. When these hit a varmint the impact causes a visible shock wave propagating from the exploding rat/squirrel.

Brass for the 6mm Remington can be made from 7mm Mauser or .257 Roberts by simple necking down and trimming. I necked the 7mm Mauser down using a .257 Roberts trim die as an intermediate step to keep things more concentric, then F.L. sized in the 6mm Remington die. Some may want to turn or ream the necks, but this wasn't necessary in my Remington 700. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/731?

The .243 Winchester brass is a bit more plentiful, with Privi Partisan manufacturing it. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/650? I have found all Privi brass as good as any, using it in .223 Remington, .22-250 Remington, .308 Winchester, and .30-06 Springfield. The .22-250 Remington Privi brass forms easily in Hornady's Custom Shop .22-250 Ackley hydraulic forming die that preforms the body and shoulder without fireforming. These dies are made to match your chamber using two fired cases and/or the technical drawing of the chamber reamer used to cut your chamber. There is no headspace problem when first firing. Being completely loony I also had Hornady make up a matched die set with a custom F.L. die and standard seating die.

Have a great 6mm splatter fest.

WiFowler: The 6mm's defintely have their place in Prairie Dog towns - but they also have some draw backs.
Among the most noteworthy are dealing with their recoil and their barrel heat in potential high volume shooting situations.
I own and shoot lots of Varmint Rifles in various 6mm calibers including a custom 240 Weatherby, a custom 6mm Remington Ackley Improved, a 6mm Remington, several 243 Winchesters and some newer additions in 6mm Remington BR and 6mm PPC.
I prefer the "smaller" 6mm's anymore for Prairie Dogs and more often use my larger 6mm's for Rock Chucks and Coyotes where recoil and barrel heat don't disrupt as often.
Recoil in a Prairie Dog town from my 6mm Remington Ackley Improved, 6mm Remington, 240 Weatherby and my 243's simply makes it next to impossible to spot my own hits/misses.
If his heart is set on a 6mm on a Remington short action I would go with a "single shot" 700 in 6mm Remington Bench Rest or a 243 Winchester loaded to moderation with VLD type Varmint bullets.
Best of luck to you both on your Varmint Safari.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I think that he understands the drawbacks of some the 6mm class of cartridges for P-Doggin. Especially those that he has his eye on. Keep in mind that his intention is not to use the 6mm class as the sole P-Dog vaporizor. He (and I) hope to make good use of the 204 Ruger and 22-250. The thought for the 6mm class cartridge is a cartridge that pushes a heavier projectile (70-87 gr) and can buck the wind over a longer range.
As for putting a 6mm class rifle together, both S/A and L/A actions are in-hand. Which gets built upon will depend on the cartridge chosen, though I would use the L/A regardless.

Been there and done that. You're right, it's not a big deal, but then, why go with the AI version in the first place?

Case capacity difference in the 243 is so minimal that it just doesn't seem worthwhile. Same for the 223 case.

Don't get me wrong, I like AI cartridges, but think they make a lot more sense when the parent cartridge has a lot of body taper, leaving more room for improvement. The 6mm Rem and 257 Rob are good examples of that.

I explained why AI'ing makes sense in my post: It has nothing to do with any tiny bit of extra velocity, but somewhat longer barrel life, and almost zero case trimming, both highly desirable in a prairie dog rifle.

You're cancelling out any improvement in barrel life with the fireforming process though.

Less trimming is nice.

My next six is going to be a 6-250. Just a bit more reach than the 22BR, which runs cooler than the 22-250 and just about reaches like the bigger toy.
For doggin, the idea is volume, and you can't do that with a smoking hot rifle.

That's nonsense. There's no "fireforming process." You find the accuracy load - it'll be a couple gr. over max for the std. 243, depending on which manual - then go out and splatter things. With this cartridge and light bullets it'll be about 100 - 125fps more than a std. 243 using pretty much the same powder charge and getting about the same velocity as formed brass.

There are a bunch of good 6's, the larger ones are all good for what you're wanting. The 6BR is super accurate and about 3900 with 55/58's.....and shoots the 65Vmax at almost almost 6-250 velocity using quite a bit less powder. In the mid 90's we started fooling with a 6/250, the idea being to approach 243 performance with less powder/heat/fouling, and it's a good one too. But you're looking at the .243AI, and it performs really well. You guys know about lots of rounds quickly with one of these, and heat and wear and that the bigger 6's aren't for high volume and all that stuff.. I'd say either an Ackleyed .243 or 6mm would be real good for what you're wanting. I shoot 70's in the .243AI at well over 3800. It's a 13" twist. The 70 has a pretty good BC which combined with how fast it'll go makes it good for flat shooting and wind drift.

How the gun is set up will make the difference between it being fun to shoot, and not. Since this will be a dedicated pd gun, give it a heavy barrel with a brake. Weight the stock's forend even. One of my 243AI's - red one in the avatar - is about 20lbs and a pure pleasure to shoot. Goes bang and doesn't even move, you can see the whole show with the scope on 32x.

Yondering,

You really aren't getting it: As I stated in one of my earlier posts (and Ackman repeated), you fire-form while shooting prairie dogs. There is no "extra" wear on the barrel.

I just picked up a 12 tw 6 BR for this purpose. 70 gr Varmint bullets approaching 3400 fps...FUN!

No need to get rude. You seem to have assumed I don't know anything about it and need to be convinced, but as I already said, I like and use other AI cartridges too. I "get it" just fine, I just don't share your opinion.

I don't think the 243AI offers enough difference over the standard 243 to be worthwhile. You do, apparently. We can disagree on that, it's just opinion, not facts.

This is really the truth, stayed in both those towns more than once.

You weren't simply disagreeing. You ignored or completely misinterpreted every point I made, even after I explained each more than once. That isn't just stating an opinion, so I chose to be blunt, which was apparently the only way to get your full attention.

Yondering,
I read your post as a statement of your opinion, nothing more than that. Your statement that you don't share the other persons opinion certainly clarifies that and you should not be taken to task for your opinion like you are a wayward schoolboy.

drover

Well, I see that Cabin Fever is sweeping the Banana Belt....

6BR with 70 gr NBT. Low recoil and explosive.

Dean

I do believe I have to agree with you on that point, drover. And I agree with Yondering also...if your going to AI either the .243 or the 6mm, why not go with the one that benefits the most and happens to have more potential in the first place?

I probably do have a slight case of cabin fever, and Yondering's insistence that AI'ing a bunch of cases would use up a bunch of barrel life touched it off.

He kept insisting even AFTER I explained that no, all you have to do is load up a bunch of ammo in standard .243 cases and shoot them at prairie dogs. Ackman also called him out on that, calling one of his posts "nonsense," yet I was the one accused of being rude for saying Yondering just wasn't getting it.

Right now I'll also point out that no, the 6mm AI does NOT gain substantially more case capacity than the .243 AI. This is because the 6mm case has a relatively short 26-degree neck, while the .243 has a longer 20-degree neck. The 6mm gains more powder room from blowing out the case body, while the .243 gains more powder room from blowing out the neck. It's basically a wash. I know this from actually measuring the powder space gained in a bunch of improved rounds, from the .22 K-Hornet to the .35 Whelen AI, rather than just guessing.

In fact the ONLY "improved" rounds that gain enough powder room to increase velocities more than about 2% are those with REALLY tapered bodies, like the antique .250 Savage and .300 H&H. But even they don't increase velocities more than 4% velocity fps over the original cases, when both the standard and improved rounds are loaded to equal pressures.

I'll also point out that Yondering insisted the 6mm AI was the better choice long after the OP reported that his friend was leaning heavily toward the .243, because he'd discovered 6mm Remington brass was scarce. That's putting it mildly, especially for anybody interested in enough brass for serious prairie dogging.

Now, if anybody else wants to argue I'll be happy to oblige, especially since the "spring" weather's supposed to get really nasty here over the next couple of days.

If it makes you feel any better, when spring DOES come around I'll hopefully have a bottle of hooch for you.

Then we can argue whether or not its any good.....or argue about the merits of the 222 Magnum(grins).

back to the original question......I am liking my 6xc for such work......cant see building a 6mm/250 when the XC is about the same thing , with standardized dies and brass available

If a fella wanted to "improve" the 243 , best route to me looks like the socalled 6mm SLR.......243 case with the shoulder shoved back to a 30 degree angle and a nice long neck

6XC over the 243 any day......or 6mm Rem...AI or not........

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6xc/

I like my 243Improved with 1-1/2" long cases, 6mmBR!

I use a 6BR for most of my prairie dog shooting, it's a savage that I've rebarreled and won't feed the little BR cases so I single load it. If I were building a 6mm from scratch for that purpose I'd likely go 6XC or 6x47 lapua since it'll feed better. I'd probably build it on a remington short action with a heavier 1-8" twist barrel and some sort of detachable bottom metal like the PT&G with AICS mags. One of my hunting partners has a heavy barreled PD rifle with DBM and it's sure nice, beats my single loading all day for sure.

The 243/6mm rem sized cases with their AI variants aren't needed for prairie dogging, too much barrel heat and recoil for a day's shooting.

I pointed out something similar in my first post.

But the OP's friend is already bringing a .204 and .22-250 for most of his shooting, so he's not going to heat up whatever 6mm he chooses much. He also wants to build a rifle and get it running by May--which is why he's leaning toward the .243 for a longer-range rifle.

6BR is probably the ideal 6mm for p/dogs...30-31 grs of BM..V133..H4895..8208...70 NBT or 75 V max..Lapua brass...my 12 twist is pushing 7500 rds...still dumps dogs as far as the eye can see...for the extra punch we all sometimes think we need..the 6XC & 8 twist & 37-38 grs of H4350...V100..RE17...or H4895..80 NBT....Leica LRF confirmed p/dog kills out to 1100...whats not to like ? No one likes to sit alongside a table in a p/dog patch with a 243 AI or 6mm Rem barking 46-47 grs of powder each shot..I build mine on Salvage s/shots & P-N tubes..was bored last winter...tore down the XC for a good cleaning.....

I'm going for P-Dogs 2nd week of June near Billings MT for a 2 day hunt. Bringing 3 rifles 223 shooting 55gr V-Max 22-250 shooting 53gr V-Max and a 6/284 shooting Primarily 105 gr A-Max and Berger hybrids and maybe some 87gr V-Maxes . My 6 has a brake on it but with 105s it still thumps ya. This is 1st time shooting P-Dogs ,in view of reading about recoil,muzzle blast,barrel heat and wear ,I wonder of what ratio of ammo I should bring for each rifle ? Surly the wind in MT is no less than SD .

Well, the build has begun. Parts and pieces fell into place quickly. Looks like it's gonna be a straight up .243 Win (for now) and so that it can be wrapped up by the time we head West. Friend of a friend, or a friend had the reamer and gages, so I'm guessing that's why the choice of .243 Win was made. My bet is that once he has loads worked up and fired, it'll stay that way, but you never know.

FWIW, my co-worker got a little ahead of himself and ended up with 2 barrels. A MullerWorks #4, S/S, 4 groove, fluted, that'll finish easily at 26", a Bartlein, Rem Varmint/Sendero contour, 5R, S/S, unfluted. That said, I may be advertising a barrel for him in the days to come (not for sure, or for that matter, which one)

Have you tried the 53 V's in the 223 ? the flat base 55 V is no where
near as flat as the 53 V........the 6mm 87 V max is all you would need for the 6/284...awesome bullet.......just bring your 'Sham Wow' to aid barrel cooling.......
223AI on table......

Ironworker,

It depends on the weather! (Yeah, I know, ha ha.) "Normal" winds are probably around 5-10 mph, with the highest in the afternoon, and a higher-BC bullet does help at longer ranges, especially at 10 mph.
My observation, though, is that if the wind's blowing MUCH harder than average, the percentage of hits goes way down at ranges beyond about 350 yards no matter the cartridge and load.

Normally about 3/4 of my ammo (and rifles) are for ranges out to 300-400 yards in typical winds, and the other quarter for shooting at longer ranges and/or higher winds.

Ironworker........I would by far bring the most ammo for your 223 , think you will find that will be the workhorse of your trip

you might want to beg , borrow , or steal another 223 or maybe a 204 if possible......dont think you will want more than a 100 or 2 rounds for the big 6mm for a the extreme long tries

myself , I usually take a couple of 204s , maybe a 17 remington and a 223 AR , also usually a 223WSSM.....next time the 6XC to fireform some brass or maybe a 6.5 creedmore for a few long shots

Thanks guys ,very helpful . What kind of weather can I expect in Billings MT in June ? Thinking about powder sensitivity . Powders I'll be burning will be Varget Ramshot TAC and Re#22 or H4831SC

You can expect all four seasons. Just the way Montana is. One thing for sure, you will have LONG days to exploit. 6 am to 9pm at least. Might still be some lingering spring wet. Or a blizzard. Hopefully it will be emerald green.

While I still think 243 and 6 Rem are too hot for dogging, 243 will work -- you can always cut it back and rechamber to XC or 47 over next winter.

Hope you have a great time.

It could be anything from around 50 early in the morning to 100+ later in the day. You should be fine with any of those powders.

One thing you also might consider is bringing a rimfire of some sort. It's often a good idea to start shooting a town with a quieter rifle, because the nearby dogs will stay up longer. However, this depends a lot on how much (or whether) a town has been shot at. An already hard-hit town won't provide many opportunities with a rimfire, but a town that hasn't been shot at all will. And even on hard-shot town, you can often find some less spooky dogs by hiking into nearby draws where most people don't go. A rimfire's ideal for this, since you can dump a bunch of spare rounds in a shirt pocket.

I usually bring a .17 HMR, because it will reach out to 150-200 yards, but have killed a pile of PD's with the old Long Rifle over the years.

Billings Airport NOAA Climate Normals 1981-2010

a thread this long about slaying prairie dogs, and .17 caliber got mentioned twice. Sacrilege......

Yeah, I noticed that too--but the original post did ask about which 6mm cartridge should be chosen to accompany a .204 and .22-250. Personally, I would bring a .17 Fireball rather than the .22-250!

MY 6mm PDog rifle.

Rem XR-100 action
-trued
-bushed
-Sako extractor
-TIG welded bolt handle
1.25" straight tapper SS Hart barrel
-28" finish
~12 TW
~6BR
-McMillan Bench Rest stock
-Jewel Trigger




Built by Clarence Hammonds

http://benchrest.com/hammonds/

a fireball would be cool , but think I am going to pick up a 17 Hornet one of these days....already have some ammo , just not the rifle to shoot it thru !!

243/6mm gets old in a hurry shooting pds in a good town and your barrel will get ate if you don't use some restraint. 70 and 85 gr Sierra HPBT's will launch them pretty hard. I'd spend most of my effort with the 204 ,223,22-250 and/or a 220 Swift. I live SD and shoot lots of dogs . But ,by all means find out for yourself. Magnum man

Fingers are too fat for 17's.........

20's rock........20VT..20-222 or 20 PT would be on my table

sdgunslinger,

The .17 Hornet is a lot of fun as well, and you can shot a LOT without heating up the barrel, or using much powder. (Got lucky about the same time on a pile of 20-grain Hornady V-Maxes for a very cheap price....)

I bought my CZ in .17 Hornet a couple years ago and it works very well, but is about 100 yards behind the .17 Fireball, so I tend to use the .17 Hornet more as my "big" rifle on ground squirrels, paired with a .17 Mach 2.

When shooting dogs I almost always take a .17 HMR, .17 Fireball and .204 Ruger, along with 2-3 other rifles, one in some larger cartridge for longer shots, and whatever others might be interesting. Just picked up my second .22 K-Hornet, an old Brno ZKW 465, which unlike most .22 Hornet repeaters has a long enough magazine to use plastic-tipped 40-grain bullets, though just barely. With the their higher BC, either form of .22 Hornet is also a lot of fun out to 250-300 yards.

I have two 6mm Remington 700's set up for Prairie dogs and two 223's. Plus I have a 204 Ruger. The long range dogs, I use the 6mm's. My favorite bullet for the 6mm on PD's is the 58 grain Hornadys. To me they void the need for 22-250's or Swifts.

I've burned up barrels before on dog towns. I'm more careful any more and switch rifles before they get too hot.

I hunt with a couple of relatives from Texas. I think I'll bring my 375H&H AI and ask them if they use bigger guns in Texas.

I killed a bunch of prairie dogs with the .375 H&H while practicing for an iron-sight safari in Botswana 12 years ago. However, must admit to using a reduced load with the 220-grain Hornady flat-nose on the PD's, at about 2000 fps. This shot right to the same place as 300-grain full-power loads, and after taking a bunch of PD's out to 175 yards there was no problem in Africa out to 200+. The Hornady expanded dogs about like a 55 from a .22-250.

The first time for PD hunting for me was with a 6mm Remington Sharon barrel on a Mouser action and a Herter's stock that dad built for me. Don't know for sure the year, but I think it was 1961. I shot a dog in the middle of three. It blew up and killed the dog on either side of it each having tiny bones etc. into their little carcasses. The bullet was 75 grain Speer HP with IMR4350 powder. Have no idea any more on the charge. I've liked shooting them since. That rifle spoiled me I thought all center fires (or as I callled them then high-powers) should shoot into .25" at 100. That was the rifle I unfortunately burned out on dogs. I know dad thought the 6mm should have been OK on deer too, but I never tried that rifle on deer as I got a 03 soon afterwards.

I SHOOT A 6BR NO TURN NECK WITH 87GR VMAX'S EASY TO LOAD AND KILLS EM DEAD

Yet another Campfire thread where at least half the posters never read anything other than the header before responding, including the original poster's question and, especially, the rest of the thread.

This belongs in Ripleys Believe It or not.
How are you ever going to learn how to shoot in the wind?
Have you ever been to Camp Perry and shot 600 yds? The wind coming off the lake will educate you.

I've been out trying to shoot gophers when the wind was blowing upwards of 50 mph. Shots were few and far between and it was miserable. If you'd ever done it, you wouldn't question 260Remguys helpful post.

Edited to add:

That's directed at whelennut. And just what does Camp Perry have to do with prairie dog shooting?

Same thing happens in Montana prairie dog shooting now and then. A couple years ago the wind was blowing 40-50 mph (that's measured, not guessed, both with a Kestrel and by the closest weather station, less than an hour's drive away. We gave it up, partly because sand was swirling so much it got in our eyes, but it was impossible to hit anything beyond 100 yards anyway, both because of wind drifting the bullets and buffeting the rifle, even when shooting from a rest.

I have shot quite a bit in winds up to 25 mph or so, and if the wind it steady it's amazing how far you can hit dogs. But when the air's moving much faster than that it's no fun, and the big point of prairie dog shooting is fun.

Geez, John. Go to Camp Perry you wussy...

Talking about Camp Perry and all that makes you look like the big deal marksman. Fine. But on the prairie when the wind's blowing so hard you can't hardly open the truck door.....it's not the time for trying to shoot little critters.

Case in point, this was a pretty good wind, measured by the depth of the loop on the rope to the dog and also a wind gauge. We got one PD that day...

How, on God's green earth, did you manage to lasso that Griffon in winds such as those? Have you been practicing at Camp Perry Shrap?

All my varmint rigs are Rem 700 in .223, 22-250 and .243. And oh yeah...... a tricked out 10/22 using Winch. Xpert HP for shooting rock chucks under 75 yards and with good bullet placement one shot can anchor them.

I shoot mostly rock chucks here in Idaho but do get over to Colorado for some PD shooting later in the year. The rock chucks can get up to twice the size of the PD which gives them more body weight to absorb the energy and for back-flips.

Lately about 80% of my rockchuckin' has been with a suppressed .223 pushing 40g NBT at 3900fps and that is a great combination.........when there is no wind and the shots are this size of about 350 yards. I used to bang on them with the 22-250 pushing 50g NBT at 3800 fps but there is an element of fun of shooting them with a suppressed rifle. The 22-250 action usually accounts for about 10-15% of the shooting. There has been times when the ranges were longer and the wind was up and I would use the .243 pushing 55g NBT at 4050 fps but later I moved up to the 70g NBT around 3700fps.

Shooting the .243 was limited as far the number of shots and worked out great for those limited runs. A wee bit more recoil and blast but it is only a .243.

Sounds like your buddy has a similar approach and my guess is the .243 caliber would be a solution and I would recommend the 70g NBT.

We usually don't have the volume of shooting with rockchucks but we do have some locations in Southern Idaho where my buddy and I both use two rifles and with taking turns with those 4 rifles to keep the barrels from heating up.

I have also encountered populations of rockchucks like that in southern Idaho. Once in a while have even seen 'em that thick that even in Montana, but not often.

Back to the 6mm's. The wind on the prairie can make it difficult. I think that is why I include 6mm when shooting the dogs. I've used bullets up to 85 grain. The 75 grain Sierra and Speers shoot well, but the SPeer has a profile like a beer can and it's BC makes it poor for the windy days. I think that if you go with the Hornady 58 grain bullets you'll find a couple of things. They are fast, they are accuarte, they blow up little critters, recoild is low, You'll love the load. If you're planning on heavier bullets, and as you stated, you're going to build the rifle, build it on a heavy bench rest profile. I prefer the 6mm Remington over all the other cartridges mentioned in the 6mm caliber including the 243, which is admittedly a close second. The 240 Weatherby is about like a 6mm/06, which I'd prefer just because of case selection. But then maybe a 25-06 would be a good option if you want the larger case.

My favorite gun on pd's when the wind is blowing is a .22 lr revolver. The wind covers noise and the moving sage covers me. i get my crawling practice in....... and it can not blow fast enuff to ruin the day!

Bugger,

You've missed a couple of things on this thread: Wifowler wasn't planning to build a 6mm rifle, one of his buddy's was.

And several pages back Wifowler posted that his buddy had decided on the .243.

At my suggestion...

How do you like cactus and rattlesnakes?
I used to use a 25-06 with 75 gr HP Hornady bullet, hits were spectacular but a lot of heat made me realize I could do almost the same thing with half the powder in a .223
I don't think I have ever gone home because of wind.
Rain can be a problem if the soil is clay.

I've shot most of my dogs with the 223, but I really like the tune up on longer ranges with the 6mm's.

As far as the wind in MT, I've never gone home as a result but I have had the percentages go way down! The dogs don't seem to like it either so they can be few and far between.

I've got three days scheduled in Montana this year on towns that haven't been shot at for at least a year!