Loading up hunting loads for my .223AI with Barnes 55 gr TTSX

Best speeds are obtained thus far with H335 but I find it so temp. sensitive that I feel I should replace it. ( Don't belabor me with the stories of it being NOT temp. sensitive....)

IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 do not produce desired velocities with that bullet..

Varget looks like a logical choice, as does BLC-2, H4198 and H4895


What say you ex-spurts?

My first choice in the 223 with 50-65 grain bullets is TAC - hands down. But I'm also seeing very good results with IMR-8208 - just don't have lots of experience with it yet.

Iggy,
I found Varget to run best in my 223 (not imp) under 60 grainers, it was in the "crunch zone" under VM 55s at 26.8 grains. I had to charge and vibrate everything before seating at that load or I would get vertical stringing. Too much work...I just like to pump and dump on the Dillon.
Never mind that Varget tends to granule-jam every once in a while when poured into 22 cal necks. Messy.

You might be okay with a little more room in the Ack case, but I'm thinking because the TTSXs are on the long side, you might be crunchy in that 98-102 percent case-fill zone.

Because of that, I wound up going to H4895 under 55s but later found that 50s over 4895 was mo bettah.

I'll second what DD says. TAC is like 335 in meterability without the evil of temperature (which is why I left 335) -- I've done three other rifles with TAC loads at 50 and 55 depending on what the evil owners gave me to play with, and it was easy peasy to get good results. My feeling is TAC is much like 335, responding well to how hard a 55 pushes back against the gas column.

That is, IF you can find some TAC. I still have not seen any in over two years.

If looking for a temp insensitive powder and wanting to stay with Hodgdon, why not Benchmark instead of Varget. Benchmark will be closer to H335 in terms of burn rate and there are no worries about a compressed load.

With a cup and core 55gr bullet in .223, 25.0 gr of Benchmark should stack holes....Work up to it.

Ingwe,

A couple years ago I decided to whack a couple with a .223 and 53 grain TSXs. I have never been able to get past the limited capacity of the case with Varget, even though Varget is by far my favorite powder for here in bigger calibers. I liked BL-C2 best and didn't have problems with it down to below 5 degrees F. TAC worked as well, but I just liked BL-C2 better in my workups, got a little better speed. TAC would have given me close to equal speed, but the rifle liked a little less a lot better. Both were quite a bit better than Varget speed wise, but I doubt if it would have mattered all that much at under 200 yards.

Tom,

You've already used TAC some, and it's just as temp-resistant as Varget or any of the other Hodgdon Extremes.

It's been reasonably available both in stores and on the Internet for most of this year. You've just got to be quick on the draw. If you keep checking websites you can pick up an 8-pounder for less per pound than it can be purchased in stores, even with the hazmat fee.

I replaced 335 with Benchmark and never looked back. Still shoot 335 once in awhile just for giggles.

ingwe

Varget has never worked very well with lighter bullets in the 223 AI in my experience

Tac and Benchmark are the ones I would be looking at. Both are great but I have came to prefer benchmark for 55 grainers and below and tac for the heavier bullets. Benchmark is the faster of the two in burn rate and I personally feel it works better with the lighter bullets, also It's an extreme powder and I've had it keep good manners from the upper 90s to 20 degrees or a little lower.

Either will serve you well

Thanks for all the input guys! I have some target to try...no TAC available at present, but I might also do the BLC-2 thing...


Gonna try them one at a time....though I can't find any Benchmark either....


Good info, thanks again!

H-4895, TAC and AA 2015... 2015 is perhaps the most under rated 223 powder for std weight bullets. And it is available

AA2495 is another good one. IMR 8208 is worth a look also

I shoot a lot of AA2015 in FF 223imp loads as it seems to work well to form cases with great accuracy

Sorry to be the one to tell you, that Temp insensitivity is NOT a universal property. Denton has already tested Varget Vs. H335 in the 223. Varget is much more sensitive in that application.
Bl-c(2) is different from H335 on a technicality of "as-built", but is the same recipe.

Wasn't it later stated that the Varget tests in the 223 were before he started the barrel cooling/ammo cooling phase of his experiments?

I say buy some decent powder you cheap fugk!



Travis

He mentions that in this article here:
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pressure%20Factors.pdf

However as this paper also shows, which does control powder and barrel temp; the end result is that it is application specific.
Also confirmed here, FAQ#7
http://www.accuratepowder.com/faq/

Tom,

I can pass on after playing with AR Comp, which was a solution to having RL15 loads on Government contract not work so well for high temps in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East....

It has worked VERY well for accuracy and also for not being sensitive for high temps as I have been over at the range running loads at full max according to load data in afternoon temps from 103 to buzzing 110 this past week...

its performed like a champ all across the board...I just ordered four 8 pounders of it recently... but a retired Marine Buddy begged me to let him buy two off of me... so I'll be replacing those soon....been ordering it out of Powder Valley...

I've always used Benchmark for the most part with 50 to 55 grain bullets. I have used TAC and AR-Comp as well never quite got the accuracy with those powders as Benchmark gave me then I tried LT-32.Accurate LT-32 seems to be available everywhere right now and It is proving to be the cats azz with lighter bullets in the 223. Great accuracy and velocity and it meters excellent.

Yeah, both LT-32 and LT-30 are also great powders. Am still finding new applications for them. Turns out LT-30 also works very well in the .17 Hornet.

Must confess I am a little baffled by how many people still choose to use very temperature-sensitive powders these days, when there are so many good temp-resistant powders available. There are very few places where temperature remains fairly consistent all year round.

You are no help whatsoever.

Go back to Poland you internet bully!

Soooooooo to get speed out of the Barnes and temp insensitivity....before I start spending $30 per pound to try what are my tope three choices?

Im thinking Varget, H 4895, and TAC if I can find them....

Mr. Ingwe. I'm sorry for my rude reply yesterday. I found a bunch of Elevator IPA yesterday and I accidentally drank them all. My behavior was altered accordingly.

I use H4895 in two different .223's. With both the 50gr V-Max, the 53gr TSX, and the 50gr. TTSX. I have achieved fine accuracy and have not experienced any dramatic shifts in speed or performance due to temperature change.

I trust you'll find this information a bit more helpful.



Your friend,
Travis

Cabela's in WV had TAC a couple weeks ago.

I'm not in WV!!!!


And Travis was right...Im cheap.

Not gonna pay hazmat....

I find Varget, H4895 and TAC regularly.



Travis

ingwe,

I have 2 pounds of varget.

No hazmat if you pick them up....

I've got an 8 pounder of AR Comp coming also, a buddy's been real happy with it in applications where Varget works. I have a good stash of Varget but I wouldn't want to count on it for high volume shooting, it's too hard to find on a consistent basis. AR Comp seems to usually be available.

I'm weaning myself off of temperature sensitive powders. Like Mule Deer says, there's no reason use old tech temp sensitive powders anymore when more stable ones are out there.

Tom,

As I explained earlier, you can often (in fact usually, in my experience) get 8-pound jugs of powder cheaper per-pound by ordering them on-line than at stores, even with paying the hazmat. Stores usually include as much or more mark-up than the hazmat fee. And I have found cruising the Internet much cheaper than driving to various stores, something Varmint Guy apparently never has learned.

Is "ingwe" another user name for "Varmint Guy"?

Is "ingwe" another user name for "Varmint Guy"?

Now that's funny. Scared the hell out of me with the thought of V.G in a leopard print thong!

So, the thought of Ingwe in a leopard print thong doesn't scare you?

Tell me about your Mother.....

Ok, she's been dead for 5 years now.


Guess I should not have been so short just because a dirtbag on the inner web chooses to bring family in as an insult.
About Mom, born in the early 20's, graduated at the top of her class while helping out with her 13 brothers and sisters during the depression and into the 40's till WWII at which time she joined the navy along with all 7 of her brothers. Spent 3 1/2 years as an S.P in the waves. After she met dad who was a aspiring lifer in the Army, he was KIA in Korea in Dec 1951 2 mos before I was born.
Mom raised both my brother(who's 2 years older) and I by herself. Went back to school and worked till she graduated with honors with a double major of English and History. Worked as a school teacher till she was 65, at which time she had attained a double masters degree. At the age of 75 I had the pleasure of being at her graduation with a Doctorate.
When she passed her funeral service was with full military honors, and her flag is displayed right next to dads.

How about yours.

You know of course that you'll smoke a wet soggy turd in hell for that.

I usually try to show respect for highly exalted gun writers, but I'll have to make an exception this time....

Yes, but by all accounts ( mainly yours...) you are Uber!

I can grab some for you if you need me to.




Travis

Got some Varget today...I'll try it then move on down the line. Appreciate the offer and I may take you up on it.

Just you handling the stuff ought to make it work better....

I put something special in the container for you.




Travis

ingwe, please don't ask Travis to post his load.

Relax Debra. It wasn't an insult on your mother or even your family. Geez....

Oh, by the way, Don't worry about the temperature sensitive crap about H-335...

OK thanks!


I'll just carry on....

Yea, it was.

Lately I've been playing with Lt-32, Tac, Benchmark, IMR-8208, IMR4895, CFE223, H322, W748, H335, and BLC-2 with 50-64gr bullets.

So far the leaders with light bullets are LT-32 and TAC. With the 60-64's it IMR4895. H335 deserves an honorable mention. It's turned in some good groups with 52gr bullets, but has not performed well with either the 60gr partitions nor the 64gr BSB's.

H4895 gives me decent accuracy and velocity with 53 gr. V-max but the chunky schit doesn't meter very well through my powder measure. H335 meters perfectly and gives phenomenal accuracy with the 65 gr. Sierra BTSP.

Benchmark and TAC for what you are asking (55 TTSX).

Benchmark gave me 100 fps less in my two 223 AI's. I shoot a lot of N133 with the 50g and N135 with the 55g and the velocity with extreme accuracy is better than any other powder tested including H335 with both.

Having said that, however the barrel life with H335 is fantastic to say the least, not so much with the N powders.

Well guys Ive loaded up a few with Varget and a few others with TAC...now I just need good weather to get to the range.

Isn't it summer YET in Montana??

Rumor has it, that its the nicest weekend of the year when and if it does show up...

OK...got to the range. TAC was the Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

28.5 grains of TAC
55TTSX
3466fps


A skosh BETTER than H335, not temp sensitive and has the added bonus of shooting tiny groups right on top of my light varmint load!

Varget only turned out 3186 fps......

You'd have to stuff more Varget in there to get better velocity. It only runs fast with very compressed loads, but it won't ever be over pressure doing such.

My last loads with it were compressed and still turned in 200fps less than the TAC....

I don't have an AI so I didn't chime in earlier, but in a regular 223 I don't use Varget under anything lighter than 69 grains.

It might make sense for the heavies....it twerent nuthin for the 55s!

Seeeeee, I was right. So there.

If only you could make yourself more believable somehow, you could have saved me a lot of trouble......

That charge of TAC, you didn't consider a little on the hot side? Isn't that a little more than their load data recommends?

or was that maybe a John Barsness Recommended load...

those sorta results, maybe I need to order me an 8 pounder of TAC instead of some more AR Comp... but the 22.250 sure is lovin AR Comp...

John, I could find no data for the .223AI and TAC so I extrapolated from regular .223 data.

My precise calculations put 29.0 grains as the top end....my load of 28.5 showed no signs of pressure whatsoever...


I'm gonna take it out and run some through gun#2 to see if the results are the same....

How long a barrel?

The velocity sounds about right, considering:

1) The rather low pressure created by short TSX's.

2) The 10,000 PSI of "free" pressure available to handloaders, since the .223's SAAMI pressure is only 55,000.

3) The grain or so of extra powder room in the AI case.

Gun#2 is a 24" barrel, 1 in 12 twist, which has thus far shot exactly the same loads as the#1 gun.
Its the one that shouldn't stabilize 55 gr. TTSX...but it does

Nice when plans don't contact the enemy, eh? Good luck, Ig.