I have a remington donor short action and McMillan A3 stock.... and no idea what I want to build for a varmint gun.

What are the pros and cons of each and of the Ackley versions? I will be handloading and the goal is to push a medium weight bullet, fast. Thinking 55-62gr Amax or NBTs.

Thoughts on best barrel for this this? Length/contour/twist?

I will not be 'burning it up' over a prairie dog town. Mainly shooting yotes and foxes and any small hogs that might happen past.

22-250 just because it works better when cycling a round from the mag.

so far +1 on the 22/250--- I have heard that the .220 rim can cause feeding issues.

22.250s have been working fine for me for a long time...

only reason I see for me to built a 220 Swift is strictly curosity... but if it never happens I don't think I'd be missing much...

a 243 necked down to 22 caliber makes more sense to me than a 220 Swift... which brass availability sucks right now anyway...

I do have some leftover .243 brass that I could neck down. It seems like there are several versions of 22/243 out there. Any recommendations on those?

Looks like people like to load up with powders that I have already which is a bonus (RL19/22, 4350, 4831).

Have had both, the Swift was in a #1.

22-250 for reasons given above, slick feeding thru a bolt action.

DF

What bolt face is your donor?

22=250 hands down. Just "simpler" all around compared to a Swift. And you could always Ackley a 250 if you find it "lacking."
Of course, MY 22-250 is actually a 6 MM International on the 250 case.

Yes it do! Last year I purchased a #1 Varmint in .220S because I had always wanted one...trying to find a good source of brass has been a serious pain. Ended up going to Gunbroker to find since most companies were only running it as seasonal.

At least with the .22-250 there is practically unlimited brass availability...and if it does wane, there are a LOT more cartridges that you can make .22-250 cases from than you can for .220S.

Variations in rim thickness and diameter can cause feeding issues. Expect about 150 - 200 fps diffrence between the swift and 250, so not alot. Brass availability is also an issue on the Swift.
Both are 473 bolt face.

Own both and shoot both with the Swift its either love it or hate it, everybody loves a 250.

Bolt face on the donor action is .473 (it is a .243 sporter barreled action)

I have about 250rds of .243 brass (rem/win mix) so I'm leaning towards an earlier suggestion of a 22-243. Started to read up and I guess there are two main versions. The first is just a necked down .243 and another has a 30 degree shoulder and needs to be fireformed?

Two questions on 22-243--- 1. What is the best way to size brass for it? Neck size to .224 and then would a .243 bushing die work? 2. What are some ideas for powder charges. I have RL19, 22 and H4831SC in abundance. I can get 4350 and H1000 easily too.

Would think a Bushing die would work fine...

I'd lean toward a Hornady 22 cal Neck sizing die..

they are cheap, effective and work just fine...

and are not caliber specific...

try a 20...........20/222 (my fav)...or 20 Practical

22-243 is a poor choice for your needs, you said you wanted to shoot 55-62gr bullets fast.......been down this road several times.

If you want a repeater it is hard to beat the 22-250 using Lapua brass in this combo. The swift is capable of better accuracy but in my rifles they are seated out so long they are single shots that wont fit in a short action magazine.

I have found out it is a complete waste of time going to a bigger case capacity than the 22-250 or swift if you are not willing to go to a heavier bullet with higher B.C.

I have wasted barrels shooting up to a 22-284

IMHO the perfect 22 cal combo is a 22-250AI using lapua brass a 75-80gr VLD type bullet with a 1-8" twist 5 groove barrel, A 22-243 might beat it by 50fps but have less than half the barrel life.

I have a 220 Swift, 220 Wilson Arrow(Swift-based wildcat), and 2 22-250s. I love the Swift and Arrow, but I have to agree about brass scarcity. 22-250 brass is MUCH easier to find. I'd go 8 twist so you at least have the option of using heavier bullets should you choose to. Hot 22s make a great deer round when the proper bullets are used.

Can't you boys shooting the Swift, make acceptable brass equivalent out of 30/06 or even 257 Roberts brass for the Swift??

I have had all 3, started with a 220 Swift on a tang safety Ruger, brass never lasted long, but, it had fantastic accuracy. Next was a 700 VSF in 22-250, just as accurate as the swift, brass lasted longer and all was good, until, it got lost in a failed river crossing.
Now I have a Rem 700 VSSF II in 22-250 and 22-250AI. I turned it into a switch barrel, it has varrels in 22-250, 22-250AI and 257AI. It's the most accurate factory rifle I've ever owned.
The AI is far easier on brass, if your goal is to reload, that's what I recommend.

Cheers.

I don't have a swift right now but there are 5 22-250's in the safe so, here's another vote for the 250.....

Swift-Swift-Swift! There are no feeding issues with the 220 Swift, when loading you just have to put each rim in front of the other. I've been shooting this round for 35 years & have killed just about everything I've hunted for, up to 350 pound Axis with the proper bullet, and did it with authority. The 22-250, more brass, more common, cheaper, etc. yeah-yeah-yeah. If you want a Ford instead of a Ferrari, get the 22-250 or a 22 mag. rimfire.

Don't have either one right now but used them both plenty for woodchuck shooting and other varmints, years past. We use to love various 50-52 gr bullets started over 3900 fps in the Swift.

I've had Ruger M77, pre64 M70's and one Rem 700 Classic chambered for the Swift and all shot really well. Easy to hit with at distance.

At least with the powders and bullets back then the 22-250 was never as fast and never owned a 22-250AI. I can see how it would be good. But we used the 22-250 plenty and it was excellent, too.

For me it would be about the rifle that popped up. Another pre 64 in Swift would be nice; or a Sako in 22-250.

I have brass and dies for both so no issue there at least right now.

BTW, there will be no issue with feed and function with a pre 64 220 Swift. I can't recall the Rem Classic being a problem either.

220 swift not feeding in news to me . I have had several r700 and a m77 ruger. Never experienced a problem. My swifts were accurate and shot most loads exremely well. I shot them over the 22 250. But you can't go wrong with a 250 either. For case life and ease my 22 250 ai is great.

Great feedback all!! Lots of votes for 22-250 family and plenty of Swift fans.

Now you've got me reading threads about longer heavier bullets and I think it will make sense to have a barrel with fast enough twist to shoot 70-80gr+ if I get the urge to. So at least that part is settled.

In terms of barrel burning does this relate to the angle of the shoulder. Steeper shoulder on a 22-250 equal less throat erosion? More an issue for 22-243 and for the Swift unless they are 'improved' to 30 or 40 degrees? As a hunting rifle I don't know how much of a problem this will be.

This might be pandoras box but are there barrel makers that are known for having barrels that perform better/last longer with high velocity .20 or .22 cartridges than others?

The Ackley shoulder keeps the brass from stretching and gives a longer service life from it... plus about 100 to 150fps more MV...

As far as a fast twist barrel on a 22.250, I put a 24 inch PAC-NOR stainless steel barrel with a one in 7 twist on a Ruger Short Action.... it will shoot any bullet ya want from 35 to 90 grains...

the previous barrel was a 243, so the action does not have the spacer like they put on their 22.250s... so I can put rounds in the magazine that are seated fairly far out there... along with having the barrel throated to accommodate a round magazine length...

it runs 75 and 80 grain bullets right at 3350 fps....

The bullets look pretty "wicked" or "cool", depending on how ya want to call them...

Not to my knowledge Seafire, due to body taper.

As far as feeding issues since the 6mm Lee navy is a rimless case that had a smaller diameter bolt face, so it was made larger (semi-rimmed) to fit the 473 bolt face. Since the rim is being enlarged, not all lots have the same rim thickness/ diameter. I have had lots from Norma, Win, and Remington that I had to use a modified shell holder to load the brass due to rim thickness.

If you want to know about the 220 AI, just look up the 220 Weatherby rocket. Ackley gave up on it and so did Weatherby after they had concluded that the extra capcity and powder did nothing to improve performance of the round.

I've got both the swift and 250 in No.1's and M77's and for me I just like the cool factor of the Swift. I mean c'mon, its legendary!!!

With the action you are going to use, the 22-250 is the way to go with a 1-8 twist barrel of your choice....

I'll still vote for the 220 Swift, like the man said it's legendary. My opinion on one matter. All my Swift's have a 1-14 twist & handle up to 65 grain if I keep the velocity smoking. If I were going to build one, it would be a 1-12 twist. The reason for this is mostly you'll be shooting 50 & 55 grain for varmints. At a twist faster than 1-12 when shooting max velocity the rpm's will be too high & spin the jacket off creating poor accuracy. Just my old 2 pennies worth. Just to mention I also have 22-250's that shoot great, they're just not a Swift. They are easy to load for accurately, just pour 35 grains of Varget & jam a 55 grain bullet & presto. 22-250's- Sako L579 & Remington 700 Varmint. Swift's- HS Precision, Remington 700 Classic, Remington VSSF I, and Ruger Varmint/Target.
Jim D

Unless you are doing this to experiment or just want a unique round to call you own and want to play with shaping brass etc

both the swift and the 22-250 are good rounds. the 22-250 a bit easier to find and maintain. If speed is your need, than the Swift would be the choice. If longevity of equipment than the 22-250. I have that in a lot of forms, including an UMAR and it has always served well

^^^^^ This ^^^^^

I would do a 22-243 Middlestead before doing a 220 Swift, but based on my very limited experience with the 22-243 and 22-6mm, I would probably do a 22-250 AI if barrel life was important.

Guys, awesome feedback, very helpful. Just based off what I have on hand I'm going to go with the 22-243 but a standard version, not the middlestead.

The plan now will be to add a 1-8", pac-nor stainless and probably go for 26" length. Plan will be to focus on the 62-75gr side but I'm sure I'll play around with 80-90gr as well. I really like the Amax but will probably try the Bergers as well.

I'll let you guys know how it goes and get some pics up once its all done!!

As I stated earlier I would not go with a powder capacity as large as the 22-243, if you want to that is fine it will work but I hope you take at least one piece of advice from me.

If you are going to do a 22-243 Pac-Nor 1-8" twist....DO NOT get a 3 groove make sure that you specify a 5 groove or you will not "really like the Amax" for long.

I just wish my 22-250 had a name as cool as the "Swift"!

Yeh, Like "250 ripper" who do we need to talk to to change the name?

boatanchor---your advice is much appreciated. I chose pac-nor because I have had larger rifles rebarreled by them with good results. Albeit never one with such high velocity. Is there another manufacturer that might be a better choice?

I was leaning towards 5 groove as a standard, what is the issue with 3 grooves and Amax in particular or any other bullet?

I know Hornady is using their ELD tipped bullet now because of issues melting and I'm assuming that also could be an issue at 3500-4000fps velocity.

The issue is bullet blow-up especially in .224 and .243 barrels with 1-8" twist barrels with huge powder capacity, the problem becomes worse when you add in A-Max because Hornady has very soft jackets.

I know several people that shoot 223 and 223AI that swear by this combo with no issues, but in 22-250AI I got about 200 rounds through it and bullet blow-up started with the A-Max,got another 200 rounds with Berger VLD's then they started blowing up so finished barrel life with SMK's. with a 22-243 I'm guessing it would be even worse. I have seen this happen in at least 10 barrel's (4 of them my own) 8 were Pac-Nor,2 were Lilja.
I have switched to 5 groove barrel's and have not had one blow-up since and much longer barrel life. You will be OK with a Pac-Nor 5groove but I am currently running Bruoghton,Krieger and Bartlein. If you are interested in a carbon wrapped light weight barrel my gunsmith has been getting great results with the new Proof Research barrels that are now made completely in-house (spendy though).

I'm with you on this one, and I'm on my fourth Swift barrel, this one is a 220AI. If I didn't have a basketfull of brass, the .22-243 Middlestead is the way to go.

You can drive a 55 gr. bullet pretty fast in the .22-250. My favorite load use to be a 55 gr. softpoint and 40 gr. of 760. That went 3850 fps in a Win model 70. When I got a Savage, the same load keyholed, so now I am shooting 40 gr. plastic tips with enough IMR4064 to hit 4,000 fps.

"southtexas, I just wish my 22-250 had a name as cool as the "Swift"!"

Like "22 Varminter or the .22 Wotkyns Original Swift? I prefer 22/250 Browning as they were ahead of Remington in chambering a commercial rifle in that cartridge.

If 100 to 200 FPS really means that much to you then just build a 22-250 Ack Imp because it will beat the Swift in Vel and works perfect from the mag.

How about 22.250 Sharpe?

Phil Sharpe built the first rifle chambered for it, did all the load work ups and was also an avid 220 Swift shooter who could compare them side by side. (1937)
He had a great write up on the pros and cons of each in his later books.

220 Swift or .224 TTH