From all the stuff I am reading, Winchester AA Hulls are 1 piece which is not the case. I have Remington "gun club" hulls that are 1 piece. My question is can the AA hulls be reloaded? I also have some Winchester super x hulls that look the same as the newer AA hulls. Can they be reloaded? I don't want to blow up my gun.

There are 2 generations of AA 12 gauge hulls.

The original AA's came out in the 1960's and are of one piece construction. They started out as a pellet of plastic and were formed in a die, later in the process the brass head was added.
The are usually referred to as Compression Formed of CF hulls. These hulls start off very then at the crimp and tapers in as it gets closer to the base. By the time it gets to the base the wall of the case thickens so there is just enough room for the primer to stick through. They can be found in several shades of Red, and Silver (light gray).

The second and current generation are the HS hulls and were introduced around 2002. The early HS hulls had no external markings to indicate they were HS. The current HS have an "H" on one side of the base and "S" on the other. They are made from tubes of plastic with a separate base-wad crimped in by the brass base. Winchester wanted the interior of the HS hulls to be shaped the same as the CF hulls, so the separate base wad is shaped to match the taper of the CF hull. This is so the same reloading data can be used with both hulls. 12 gauge HS hulls are made in red and in dark gray. 20 gauge are yellow, 28 ga and .410 bore are red.

Some of Winchester hunting shells were made in CF cases, but there are no current 12 or 20 gauge hunting loads made with the HS hull. The Super-X hulls you refer to are built like HS hulls but are made with a lessor grade of plastic, they will load ok for one or two loads but will not stand up to many reloads like the AA's All of the 28 and .410 are loaded with HS hulls.

Michael

Micheal, that is great info. I have 3 types of hulls and have noticed that I do not like the "super x" hulls at all. Those are definetly one and done compared to the AA or STS hulls. If it were you would you buy the once shot AA or STS hulls from the online websites?

There is very little difference in loadablity and longevity. The only real issue is that STS hulls are made for Remington primers, which are more expensive an harder to get these days. Remington Primers have a dome shaped top. Remington hulls have a primer pocket shaped to fit the domed top. You can load STS hulls with non-Remington primers, but the first time you have to seat the primer into the pocket with enough force to displace the plastic. On subsequent loads non-Remington primers will go right in. Nothing dangerous but it is a pain to do sometimes.

If you have a local trap club, you can usually buy hulls for a lot less than ordering them online.

Michael

The Remington "Gun Cubs" hull with the chrome base load extremely well in 12 and 20 gauge giving you a nice finished crimp. I have been loading them for years using the Winchester 209 primer as a replacement primer. As Mag410 stated I used Remington 209 primers loading the STS and gun club hulls for a while but due to pricing and availability I went back to the Winchester 209 primer with no issues.

The "Super X" hulls from Winchesters promo loads are trash.... just throw them away.

Why Winchester changed to the separate base wad in the "HS" hull from the compression formed hull is beyond me. The compression formed hull was the number one for shot shell reloaders since the 60's.

Since the change the Remington "STS" hull is the hull
shot shell most target shooters use.

If you need hulls "PM" me you needs.

Doc

Yes, and yes.

I still have garbage bags full of old compression formed AA 12 and 28 gauge hulls that I'm jealously hoarding, but I have loaded probably every permutation of hull that has come down the pike and my experiences mirror those above comments. The only thing I would add is that even though some of the more pedestrian types of hulls can be successfully reloaded, my biggest gripe (aside from hull life) is the steel bases on them (often plated to look like brass) which make for more effort to resize and undoubtedly increase wear on the sizing die. Not a big deal if a box or two now and then is the norm, but it is a real factor when setting out to reload a couple flats of shells.

Even though I'm still enamored of the old compression formed AA, and balked at using the HS ones when they first came out, I have since learned to accept them and honestly find no difference in hull life. I do especially like the old style AA 28 gauge hulls mainly because I still have a boat load of old style AA wads for them. Out of ignorance or sloth (take your pick) I have frequently committed the cardinal sin of loading 28 ga. HS hulls with the old style wads with no noticeable ill effect, although I do cut back the 13 grain Unique powder charge a bit for good measure when doing so.

I too routinely use W-W 209 primers for both AA and STS hulls. I never noticed extra force needed to seat them in STS's, but that could be due to the leverage in my machines, I don't know.

Rem Gun Clubs are my favorite. Easy to pick up for free and last through many firings. On my presses all Rem hulls load the same w/o any adjustment. This includes the older "All Americans, Premiers, Blue Magic, RXP, etc...to the current "STS, Nitro, Gun Club, Sport Load, Game Load, etc... .

I have the collet on my MEC set to .807". A bit larger than factory size but fits my chambers with room to spare. I have loaded many many thousands of steel based Gun Club hulls without any issues at that station. The collet is regularly cleaned and lubed. I think more collets are ruined because of improper adjustment, lack of lube, and accumulated grime and shot than because of steel bases.

Win AA HS hulls are good but I have never been as lucky as others when switching to them. On my machines the require adjustments to all stations for satisfactory loads. They last 6-8 reloads for me before splits appear vertically in the body. I just loaded about 4000 of these. Mostly Promo/reclaim for practice.

Primers vary in size most notably between foreign and domestic. Rem hulls sometimes have a blob of plastic in the primer hole which can cause seating issues. Some people "touch" the hole with a proper sixe bit to clean them up. I've not had the problem using any domestic, Cheddite, or Noble Sport primer (Domestic= Winchester, Federal, CCI, Remington). There is a chart with measurements of the various primers out there, I can't find it right now. Make sure your primer station is adjusted properly and you may not have any issues.

I shoot mostly one ounce loads for everything. Much more comfortable and break birds with authority. Just my .02 cents

I've had difficulty loading the AA HS hulls as well.....and I also have a bunch of older AA hulls that I am hoarding as well.
For target loads, I think that the Remington one piece unibody hulls are probably the best: economical (i.e.free in most instances), can be loaded with a variety of loads, from target to hunting, and that is about all you can ask for. I use them for slug and buckshot loads as well.
As for the cheap Winchester promo hulls, I even use those....load them up as blanks for dog training.

Ah, my old Mecs pre-date collet sizers. If they didn't work so well I would upgrade. When I need to run off a huge batch, I go down in the basement and use the landlord's Spolar with foot actuated hydraulics.

I've been a fan of the AA CF hull for years. But recently I wanted to load some 00 buck loads and used some of the new AA HS hulls and discovered the construction difference. Also found the Rem Gun Club hulls to be like the AA CF's. These have all been loading just like my old AA CF's. The only problem I've run into with the newer mfg'ed hulls is the Rem STS. My W-W 209 primers will not stay in the hole. They slowly work out just sitting on the bench. I am glad to know that the new hulls can be used when my stash of AA CF's run out.

The above shells were reloaded with the same primer, powder charge, shot charge, etc. At least for breaking clays with my Encore, they all worked great.

As for hull longevity, I found Federal hulls to be the best though for one or two reloadings AA hulls are OK.

I have never had a WW-209 primer work out of A Rem STS hull. Not all primers are the same length or diameter. I have loaded thousands of Rem StS and gun club hulls with WW209 primers with no issues. I'm curious if a Fiochi primer was reloaded into the Rem STS hull as a previous reloaded hull?? The Fiochi primer is a tad larger in diameter...or so I've read.

I have loaded 12 ga buck shot loads and used the older one piece AA hull using data from the Lyman shot shell manual. The Federal hull has more internal space and is better suited to 1 3/8 to 1 1/2 oz loads.

Doc

Are you saying that fully seated W209's back themselves out of STS cases?

Michael

I know this is heresy but I use all 12 gauge hulls interchangeably. With the same load of powder, primers, and shot they all seem to work with very little difference regardless of which hull I stuff them into. I generally miss a few clay birds out of every 25, but I don't blame the load. Swapping wads seems to have more impact than changing hulls.

Loaded lots of STS hulls back in the 90's with W209's and never had a single issue.

As your skill level improves, you will probably find you want more consistent shells than you are loading with this approach.

There are loads that work well with all the tapered interior Winchester and Remington hulls.

There are loads that work well with the straight wall hulls.

But there are no good loads that will result in consistent speeds when loaded willy nilly in both type hulls.

Michael

You might be right mag410. There are guys I shoot with who spend far more time and money than I do to shoot competitively. Their scores are better than mine. But I do love to watch their reaction when I pull out a 100 year old side by side and a box of shells like a rainbow. I tell them I'm just there for fun and they shake their heads when they see that I'm shooting nearly as well as the guys using $8,000 dedicated trap guns and their favorite loads. As long as my loads perform sufficiently well to let me put birds in my belly, I really don't mind the difference. In answer to the original question - the difference in the hulls will not cause a safety issue. I recommend using them and having fun.

I'm glad I'm not the only heretic.

I have one question. I have some CF AAs but am running out. I may change to Remington STS or Gun Clubs. I have a lot of wads for the AAs (mostly Clay Buster).

Can I use the same wads in Remington hulls that I use in CF AAs?