I just went through the biggest headache the last two days. I went to my local UPS Service Center (not a store or drop off) and tried to ship a rifle I sold here on the campfire (Ruger 1-B). I have used this Service Center before. UPS would not ship the rifle (I had a signed copy of the FFL I was sending to, and they refused). I came home, and called UPS Customer Service, Went as high as I could by phone, and was told by UPS, that three years ago, UPS changed the rules, and a Private individual could not send any working firearm to an FFL, the only place they could send a firearm, was back to the manfacturer for repairs. Anyone who does so is subject to confiscation of the firearm, and punishment from the atf, should there be violations. I have never heard of this, and have shipped guns UPS for years. I just sent one UPS about a month ago. Does anyone really know the rules? As for now, after this go around, UPS can kiss what I can't. If I'm wrong, where do I find it in print? The guy on the other end of the deal who was waiting for his rifle, is also suffering from this crap. Looks like USPS for me.

FedEx ground?

Ship it at your local post office. The USPS will ship long guns with no questions asked, if you show them the FFL. They do like to have the action open or the bolt removed, if possible but they likely will not even ask.
Way cheaper too.
Joe

Nope, Fed-Ex rules state ALL firearms must go priority overnight, very expensive.

USPS is not a bad option, but the UPS ground is cheaper especially for the larger and heavier rifles.

I think the UPS person or persons told you wrong. I have read their rules and have shipped many long guns to other FFLs around the country. I'd research it some more and go back to set them straight!

J

Oh crap....just saw this on gunbroker.com:

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition. UPS does not allow shipment of firearms FROM an unlicensed person (even to an FFL), unless the stated reason for the firearm shipment is for repair or modifications.

Jason, I thought they were wrong also, but after going through at least a dozen persons the last two days, Same answer.

FedEx and UPS suck here.

USPS, on the other hand, is a positive joy here.

And they don't have to see a copy of the FFL, either. I've talked with the desk clerks at two different PO's on the island, and they don't need to see or have a copy. I've mailed probably 15 long guns since I've been here, and it's never been an issue.

Did I mention that FedEx and UPS suck?

Dennis

Only hand guns have to go fedex over night. They will ship long guns by any other of there services.

The info at Gunbroker is AT BEST second-hand to you and me. Ultimately, the only way to be sure that UPS truly has that policy and that you are not getting jerked around by some anti-gun employees at UPS is to obtain a copy of the official UPS policies. Perhaps a copy of the policies can be found on UPS's website or a Campfire member who works for UPS can obtain a copy of the policies.

I just go through a friend who's an FFL anymore. FedEx manager told me overnight was the only way they'd ship, and like Jason mentioned $$$ - was quoted at over $250 last time I tried to ship a long gun.

I just got this from UPS' web site:

Shipping Firearms
Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

* Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. � 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air� Early A.M.�, UPS Next Day Air�, or UPS Next Day Air Saver� services. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
* UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
* UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
* Firearms, including handguns, and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally
* Ammunition may be accepted for shipment internationally provided it is shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping International Goods.
* UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.


Follow These Packing Requirements

* Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS.
* Ammunition cannot be included in packages that contain firearms (including handguns). Ammunition must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials, or the UPS Guide for Shipping International Dangerous Goods.
* Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. � 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. � 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments.


About Documentation and Labeling

* The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.


Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS

* You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store� or any third party retailer.
* When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
* You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns, which are discussed above), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.
* See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.

I can vouch for that being UPS's policy. If questioned (usually doesn't happen) I tell 'em it's my gunsmith. Problem solved.

Only handguns have to go next day air ,I send rifles all the time fedex ground.No problem even if different people are working.

All they care is that it's going to a FFL

In the excerpt model70man copied from the UPS website, there was a reference to "UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service." Below is that info.

Bottom line is that like in many other organizations, the UPS customer service people either cannot read or choose not to read their own policies and procedures (and the info on gunbroker.com is wrong).

UPS TARIFF/TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SERVICE
FOR SMALL PACKAGE SHIPMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES
Effective December 31, 2007

excerpt concerning firearms:

J. Firearms and Ammunition
UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the
United States Code, from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers and
licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies,
from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law, and
when such shipment complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and
package. The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package
containing a firearm, including handguns. UPS, in its sole discretion, may require the shipper to select a UPS
Next Day Air Service for any package containing a firearm. Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. � 921, will be
accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services. Firearms, including handguns, will not be
accepted for transportation via UPS Drop Boxes, Internet Shipping, in response to a request for On-Call
Pickup Service, or when presented for shipment at locations of The UPS Store or any Third Party Retailer.
Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. � 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and
labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. � 172. Firearm parts, which do not constitute firearms as defined under
federal law, including without limitation Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States
Code, and which otherwise comply with federal, state, and local law, will be accepted for transportation. UPS
Returns Services are not available for packages containing firearms. Firearms, including handguns, and
firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally. For more information, access
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/service/terms/firearms.html, or contact UPS.

Not what FedEx told me and I have a business account with them as well. Shipped long guns no problem for the longest time, then last fall they informed me of the change; talked to phone rep and manager but didn't go any higher. Anyone got any hard copy on their policies?

By the way, when dealing with shipping organizations (and others) on issues related to firearms and hunting, we need to go armed with information. When you just tell people from UPS, FedEx, etc. that what they are saying is unfair and/or doesn't make sense, they don't care. When you show them in black and white where their policies and procedures state that they WILL ship firearms from an individual to an FFL, then they had better follow those procedures or face the consequences.

A few months ago I had a woman at a FedEx location tell me she couldn't ship my frozen javelina head to Skulls Unlimited even though I had it packaged as required. I told her to look it up in her manual. She couldn't find it and called their internal help line. The person at the other end of the line couldn't find the right policy, either, and he/she also said they couldn't ship it. I finally outlasted the woman at the counter, and she consented to ship it, but that was 30+ minutes of my life wasted because a couple people couldn't find/read their own company's pertinent policies.

+1 on muledeer >>

FedEx and UPS suck here.

USPS, on the other hand, is a positive joy here.

And they don't have to see a copy of the FFL, either. I've talked with the desk clerks at two different PO's on the island, and they don't need to see or have a copy. I've mailed probably 15 long guns since I've been here, and it's never been an issue.

Did I mention that FedEx and UPS suck?

Dennis

Interesting,

Here in Mississippi USPS is a pain in the pitooty to deal with when shipping firearms. UPS on the other hand has been excellent. I've shipped two long guns that I've sold here on the classifieds in the last two months with no problems. Showed the clerk the FFL it was being shipped to, no questions asked, out the door in less than five minutes.

Leftybolt

I recently bought a cooper from whelenaway on this forum and it took it 17 days to make it from wisconsin to florida....no way to track it....we thought it was stolen....just not sure there is any good choice nowdays....it was sent usps

The last one I shipped was a O/U shotgun..From the post office.. I told them it was martail Arts equipment..lol $18

depends on where you live. UPS here in South Carolina is very anti-gun, and will only ship to the ORIGINAL manufacturer, per them. If they are out of busines...so are you.

Fred-Ex (spelled it as I meant it) will only ship a gun from a 'SECURED SITE" and that means you go to one of those places and pay out the ass.

I use USPS, charge appropriately, and it is all good.

USPS told me here OHHHHHH no only between FFL dealers

AFTERUM - I bet he used parcel post. Only bad idea with USPS. Priority all the way. Hardly any more $$ and 2-3 days. If you compare Priority to UPS or Fred-Ex 3 day it's about the same coin.

PPosey- I guess it just depends but I have printed off the information from the ATF website, just in case, the first time I shipped direct within WA state. They kinda started to say something and I said "I have the regulations right here, wanna see" Nothing more said.

www.ATF.gov is your friend.

Dave

One other note regarding UPS:

My FFL called me earlier this month asking for help making an insurance claim against UPS. He ships about 100 rifles per year and knows how to pack a rifle in the box. The rifle arrived at the buyer's with a one-inch hole punched completely through the box. Whatever punched through the box broke the wood rifle stock at the wrist, completely snapping it in two. The FFL made a claim with UPS and they went and looked at the rifle. They denied his claim due to inadequate packing! It was in a standard rifle box with some filler in the box to take up the extra space. In my experience, that�s packed better than firearm manufacturer�s package rifles fresh from the factory. My FFL called me to help, because I�ve done some legal work for him in the past. After a huge runaround from UPS it came down to the claim still being denied and the shipper�s only remedy was to sue UPS in Federal Court! (Like any average guy would ever do that over a $500 rifle�which is exactly what UPS is counting on.)

So, UPS will sell you insurance, knowing that they can/will deny the claim. You have no remedy other than Federal Court.

In the future, I don't plan on using UPS for anything that I can send via USPS.

David,

I just had that same argument last week with UPS here, and I laid the regulation in front of them, and they backed down and shipped my two rifles.
So far, Fed Ex has been excellent sending rifles for me, as has the Post Office.

USPS broke a stock of mine and refused to honor the insurance. No more of my business. AND every other time I try, I have to insist that a USPS manager read the USPS regs to the idiot clerk with an anti service-to-the-public 'tude. Welfare reform went to far -- these slugs need to get back to their daytime TV....

I now use FEDEX on rifle shipments w/o hassle or problems at about 2/3 cost of the USPS.

1B

I like usps but it is about twice the price of fedex.Shipping to alaska though fedex is twice the price of usps...LOL

Anyone know the UPS regulation for shipping my own muzzleloader form NY to CO. to myself care of my outfitter.Want to ship my muzzleloader ahead of time rather that fly with it?

He may have sent it registered mail as well. I once shipped a gun registered priority mail from Maine to the midwest, and it took 14 days to get there. Aparently if you send it as 'registered' mail, every person who touches it has to sign for it. I also had to use paper tape, which was stamped at every seam to ensire it wasn't opened along the way. Now I just send them priority, insured with delivery confirmation. Seems to work just fine, and it is a lot quicker.

hwgtyd - +1

Now I just send them priority, insured with delivery confirmation. Seems to work just fine, and it is a lot quicker.

Small rant, since we're on the subject...

A few years ago UPS ran over one of my rifles with what had to be a LARGE forklift, delivered it to the gunsmith that way - tire tracks and all - and refused to honor the insurance I paid for even though I had it insured at full value. Gunsmith took pics, went out of his way to work with UPS, and nada. Needless to say they don't ship anything for me anymore. Same gunsmith had to track down one of five prototype weapons shipped to military for test and eval, it was found removed from all packaging and stashed at a UPS site.

USPS around here is spotty; you can wind up arguing all day with staff who are unaware of their employer's regulations.

Seems like whenever the topic of shippers comes up, everyone's got hassle/horror stories. The market is wide open for a decent shipper to step in.

I ship USPS Priority on guns and everything else.Have never had a problem.The clerks here generaly don't care what you're sending,as 98% of them are lazy.The other 2% just don't want to know what you're shipping.

WB.

About a year ago the same thing happened to me. I walked into the UPS place to ship a rifle to a gunsmith in another state. This was about two months after shipping a rifle with them, and the clerk looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out my ears. She said, "We have never shipped firearms!"
When I got home I called UPS with the intent of reporting the employee for her snotty attitude and her obvious error in stating that they had never shipped guns, etc.
Well, I get somebody on the phone and start whining about my little problem...next thing you know I have a UPS truck coming to my house to pick the rifle up!!!!
Obviously my experience was the result of an employee that didn't have a clue, but also UPS did not give a snot that the error had been made. I have not had to ship any guns since then, but I will within the next few months and I am not looking forward to it.

Your UPS people you talked to are all up in the night...

This is my first time receiving from USPS. Their tracking system is a joke. I guess they update it whenever they remember too. So far ive dealt with UPS and had no problems except that it seems that my package is at the bottom of the list.

I always tell them it's going in for repair and never have a problem and I'm in SC.

The only question I have gotten from UPS is "is is loaded?" Dealing with USPS here it depends on the clerk, some don't ask, and some have to be educated. I always take a copy of my 03 FFl to prove "I'm a dealer." Never had to use it and if I do, hopefully they won't notice it has CURIO and RELIC at the top.......

Here's the link for the UPS regulations. Print them off can keep them handy if you ship via UPS.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/re...rms.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=firearm

Highlight the relevant parts and keep fighting it if you have time. Every time we give in is a little more of our privileges being stomped on..

Same dam thing here in San Antonio. You'd think we could hire some folks who weren't anti-gun in Texas! But no most of them dried up old bitches hate guns and will give you the run around till you just quit and leave. I was persistent one day and they wound up calling a postal inspector. He didn't know the law or their rules either! He finally consented to ship it when I insisted I was right, but believe me it wasn't worth the hassle. I kept looking for police cars since I knew they'd called the local gestapo on me for being a "dickhead"... I know they saw it in that context.

The local UPS Service Center has been great. They don't even bat an eye. Hope like hell they don't get a corn cob up their butt....

Everything is headed this way. With "Omma" running expect it to get worse. George Soros would love to see a civil war in this country and see it go down the tubes. The wrong gun laws could provoke such a battle. I've heard several of his supporters say he wants to do away with concealed carry and wants limits on purchases, etc. From what I've seen he has never voted for any measure that would help the gun owner. Unless you count the fact he didn't want young gang members who shot someone tried as an adult! The fact they probably stole the gun or someone else did is Ok in the democrat's book. It's the fault of the gun owner for allowing that to happen. Going to be a fun 4 years if he wins.

Thank you sir.
Allan

THE ONLY WAY!!!

Not here at my FEDEX location...

I've had time to reflect on this, and I know I could say it was for repairs, or a lamp, a large tube of glass, or a big aluminum pipe wrench etc..... But it is a shame when a lie is better than the truth (unless you tell your boss your sick on a huntin day). We live in a screwed up place. I do not ever want to think of the next 4 years. Another election of picking the best of the worst.

I had some what of the same problem the last time I sent a rifle to McMillan. The UPS shipping centers are starting to push back on it, the "UPS Store" locations flatly refuse and will show you where it's written they don't ship guns. It does mention this on the UPS website.

When transfering ownership I normally go through my gunsmith - they use UPS with no headaches. It costs me a bit extra but not much, and they like my business.

Spot

+1!!!!

Just think - if individual UPS location aren't pushed to comply with their own policies and procedures, then USPS will be the only way to ship guns economically, and USPS is too closely tied to the federal government for my comfort during a Dem administration w/ a Dem congress (and it looks like even odds that we may get that terrible combination in January). Those of you shipping FedEx Ground have sympathetic staff at your locations because if you read the rules on the FedEx website you will see that all firearms have to be shipped next day service. IMHO FedEx needs to tighten their security and change their policy to allow guns to be shipped by ground.

Something to note regardless of which shipper you use is that if you lie about what you are shipping or otherwise do not follow the shipper's policies then don't count on collecting any insurance in case of some problem (e.g., loss or damage).

I LOVE UPS, but the UPS Store is a joke! They refuse to ship ANYTHING firearm related (including stocks). I have gone round and round and then realized the person I was talking to could not be reasoned with. The UPS Stores are privately owned (probably by by Karl Marx).
The local UPS direct place is a joy. I walk in, they take it, give me insurance at a reasonable rate, and ship it with great tracking info.
I have had an insurance claim on a firearm and they paid no questions asked.

Agreed, UPS is my shipper of choice but the "UPS STORE" is NOT owned by UPS and they cannot legally ship firearms. I found out the same way but the local distribution center is like yours.....in and out, no fuss. My only complaint is they are only open 2 hours a day to the public.

I have only sold a few long guns and to date have not had any issues with UPS. I am curious though if they have a repeated history of denying insurance claims for damaged firearms might they be subject to a Class Action Lawsuit? If that is a common practice that has impacted a lot of folks here, then that service option seems like fraud, and possibly targeted, and by bringing impacted people together might attract attention and correction. Possibly a lawyer member could comment on this.

I tried USPS here to return a red label to factory for work and the it shook the clerk up so bad he started stuttering. He went for a policies manual and could hardly turn the pages. I guess it was a first time and he honestly did not know what to do.

Yes!

Things like that are exactly why I only ship/receive firearms via USPS...

I refuse to use UPS for firearms...

Do you approach the clerk with a guilty conscience and feel that you must spill your gut and tell the world that you are shipping a firearm? Actually, it's none of anyones damned business as to what's in the box... I allways ship my bumper jacks through the mail

Only answer questions. Last night I shipped two rifles and a stock and it was a newer guy and he said "Fishing Poles?" I said Nope. That's all. Later he guessed rifles and I said "yes". That's all.
NEVER - NEVER offer additional info. PERIOD........

Dave