This year brought me renewed interest in small game hunting. What started as shooting a few pheasants one day turned into endless days pursuing grouse and rabbits. It was refreshing to not sit motionless in a tree or worry about the wind after a long sucessfull deer season. Just walking around, exploring thickets and kicking brush. Most days, I fired more shots than the last 2 deer seasons.

Grouse hunting in particular has taught me you need to shoot qucik as your windows are small and you better be prepared to walk alot. My 28" barrel old 870 seemed quite long in the thickets and the fixed mod choke did tend to tear them up pretty good when I did connect with #6's @ 15-20 yards. All this has me thinking, I need a close cover grouse gun. I am inclined to get an 870 wingmaster 20ga. 26" IC choke, but also thinking of an auto. Everything I read says Franchi 48 or Benelli. Anyone gone down a similiar road? What did you choose, what did you learn. Chokes/Loads/Guns? Balance to me is most critical and planning a trip to a large gunstore where I can handle a montefeltro or AL48.

I think it would be tough to beat a Montefeltro 20 ga for quick shots on rabbit and grouse.

What barrel length?

I use a Montefeltro 12 ga for grouse and rabbits most of the time. Also use it for turkey and goose. I have even killed deer with it. To me the Franchi's are aggravating to unload. I have owned alot of shotguns and to me the Benelli's are the cadillacs. To hit grouse consistently the gun will need to fit YOU! The shim kit helps with this a bunch. I use 26" for upland and 24" for turkeys.

God Bless, Louis

I like an O/U or SxS 20 gauge (28 ga. works too) with 26" or 28" barrels. One of these will weigh in around 6 - 6 1/2 pounds with great handling characteristics. You also have two choke and/or load options available to you.

I grew up as a teenager stomping cover for rabbits and quail packing a Remington M870 12 gauge with a 28" fixed modified barrel. Great gun but long in the thick stuff and blew up a lot of meat at the short ranges you get presented with from stomping brush piles. I got my hands on an Ithaca SKB 20 gauge SxS when I was in my early twenties and found a real revelation in that little double gun. Currently a Weatherby SKB O/U 20 gauge with 26" barrels and screw in chokes in my gun safe would get that job. I still have my old 870 but it feels like a fence post compared to that little O/U. Personally I like the stack barrel O/U because I shoot them a bit better than the SxS and for me the slim receiver carries a bit easier. That is subjective of course. One nice thing about a break action gun is they are so easy to make safe when crossing a fence, jumping a small stream, ect.

I never knew a O/U or S/S would weigh so little. I just shrugged them off thinking the extra barrel would add too much weight.

My 28" Mod 870 will always have a place with me. I killed my first deer with it and its deadly on late season pheasants with fed #4's. There's definetly a difference between the older 870's and the newer express models. I tried carrying a newer 28" express because I had a IC choke for it. My goodness, I felt like I was lugging a tree.

Yeah, my old 870 Wingmaster was made in the late fifties and has that little ringtail fore end. It is nearly silver from packing it so much and has a near and dear spot in my heart. But the right tool for the right job and all that. Subscribing to that theory allows me to buy more guns!

And I agree, I have a strong dislike for the Express Model 870's. The Wingmaster is a nice shotgun, the Express not so much in my eyes.

my Winchester 101 20ga choked imp/mod

One of the 21" VR 870 youths would do it.

My favorite is an Ithaca Ultra Featherweight 20 ga with a 25" mod barrel. I feel a little bad about dragging it through the brush as it is pretty close to new but I bought it to use it.

Lots of ways to get there and a Benelli Semi in a 20 would be hard to beat, but they don't say Grouse to me. Here are three that do.

The new one: Ithaca Model 37 in a 28 gauge:



One that is old, but one of the finest. A Model 12 in 16 Gauge:






If you want to go evil on Grouse, this one would be hard to beat. Winchester Model 59 in 12 Gauge:





And a joy to hunt with. Have lost count a long time ago on the Grouse it has taken.
Parker Reproduction in 16 Gauge:





Find one that fits close and then shoot it a lot. All three of these are different when it comes to dimensions. Grouse for the most part are about hearing, looking hard at the Bird and instinctive shooting. Rarely do you get the chance to have a perfect mount with feet and hands perfectly set as on the skeet field.

Forgot. Welcome to the Fraternal Order of Grouse Hunters. No finer game bird has ever existed. Long live the King!!!!

Being a Remington guy I shoot a 26 inch 11-87 20 gauge.

I have a number of shotguns, but my favorite grouse and upland shotgun is my SXS Bernardelli Premier Gamecock 12 ga. single trigger , auto ejectors ,light as a 20 ga and it is deadly on Grouse and Quail. Barrels or 26 inch IC&IM. I use 7.5 or 8's. I love this shotgun .

Don't fall into the short barrel trap that has been shoved down Grouse hunters throats by the unknowing and manufactures for more years than I care to remember. You mentioned that balance is important. In that case long and lean wins the race.

(With the 3 or 4 inches of receiver length in a pump or semi-auto, you essentially have those inches added to the barrel length of a SxS or O/U barrel. I.E. a 26 inch barreled pump will have the equivalent overall length and sighting plane of a 29-30inch SxS or O/U.)

Unfortunately long and lean in a SxS or O/U is difficult to find. And if you do it often will raise hell with the checking account.

I agree, 26 inch is the shortest i want on a shotgun for grouse. On a SXS or O&U 28 inch or 30 inch does quite well in the grouse woods.

I know you like good shotguns. Once had my hands on a 28 Gauge Perazzi on a 28 Gauge frame with 30 inch barrels. I think you would have liked it more than a little.

However, one of those that raise hell with the checking account.

I am an 870 fan.. I think I would go with a youth model 20 ga. I used my std. 870 20 ga. with chokes and it worked fine.. But I don't hunt a lot of ruffs anymore.. I have been the double route, while many love them, for most of my hunting, I have found them lacking..

What Battue said. Nowadays my favorite grouse gun (for those rare days I can get my gimpy butt back into the coverts) is a 28ga. O/U with 28" barrels. My L.C.Smith 20ga. 28" Ideal Grade is another favorite. I have used shuckers and autoloaders, but my personal favorites are guns with two barrels, but that's just me.

Going back 40+ years, there was a guy in our group who just couldn't hit a grouse to save his soul, so he resorted to trying to employ technology as a substitute for practice. He started showing up every weekend with a different gun, determined to find "the one" that would magically turn him into a grouse shooter. Needless to say, nothing worked. Then one day he showed up with a M97 Trench Gun. As we pushed through a stand of white pines a grouse rocketed straight up from under his feet. He shot from the hip and sluiced the head clean off at a range of about 10 feet. From that day forward he was convinced he had solved his dilemma. Needless to say he still couldn't hit a grouse, but by God he had the perfect grouse gun.

Agree with all thats been said regarding barrel length, 26" is min for me. An 870 12 with 28" barrel balanced about right for me, so was thinking I could go down to 26" on a 20 ga. and preserve the balance.

For you Ithaca guys (always liked Ithaca's) are the featherwieght 16/20 ga on the same frame as the 12's? I do see them pretty cheap from time to time around these parts. As much as I like the idea of a nice double, the other things in this juncture of my life(mortgage, kids, etc.) always get in the way:) Definetly see battue's point on overall length, though. One of the things I liked about the Franchi 48, was its relatively low cost for a pretty highly regarded lighweight gun.

Battue-Thanks for the pics. Always enjoy your posts, you bring alot to this forum.

Thanks. Had a good evening with the Grandkids. And over your way as a matter of fact; used to shoot a good bit at Northside, Millvale and the Allegheny Rifle club. Your compliment tops it all off.

Appreciate it.

my browning XS feather 28 gauge wearing a pair of 30's

Yes!!!! They are sweet.

So with all the references to doubles, I gottta ask. If a guy wanted to keep it under 1K or better yet 750ish, would would be a quality SXS or O/U to pursue?

Ah!!!! It is a slippery slope you are looking down on, but one that can bring more than a few great times.

The Urgartechea is a great shotgun in a box lock. The Grade 1 starts out more than what you are looking to spend, but used is another story. And there is a lifetime of solid use in one of these. Bookmark "Lion Country Supply" and keep checking their used ones and eventually one will show up. Not sure if you would prefer a straight stock or not, and they take a bit of getting used to. They may make them with a pistol grip, but Im not sure. LCS could answer that question for you.

Friend bought one a few years back. Has used it hard and shoots it better than good on Grouse.

http://www.doubleshotguns.com/ugartecheagrade1boxlock1.html

As stated above, the SXS will always be lighter.
I started with a SXS, owned some pumps, auto's and OU's over the years, but now that I'm slowing down I do 90% of my hunting with a Merkel 20ga (26" tubes).
I still have a 16ga Rizzini OU that fits me like a glove and weighs nothing but the Merkel's stolen my heart.




Honorable mention for the Rizzini.


Good luck.
Hope you find "the one".

Nice. I've only handled a couple Merkel's, but they are a really fine shotgun and would make a solid lifetime upland shotgun.

My 16 Gauge BRNO sidelock. Can't do single triggers nor short barrels on a SxS.

I like the double triggers on my old ELSIE too, but the selector being located on the Merkel's trigger is similar in function and it keeps me from looking down my nose at others.

I have a new Beretta Sliver Hawk 20 ga that fits me very well. This shotgun is New in the Box or Case. I haven't decide if i want to hunt with it as of today , it is the New Production Silver Hawk. You are right i love quality shotguns. One SXS that didn't cost me more a Grand is my CZ Ringneck in 16 ga. It fits me about as good as any shotgun i have. It is deadly on Ringneck's in South Dakota . My opinion the CZ Ringneck is the best buy in a mid priced SXS today. Two coyotes with my Elsie 16 ga while squirrel hunting .

She's my huckleberry:

The CZ's a great pieces as are Ugartechea's and the Dickinson's (once S&W's) that Cabelas sells. If one is OK with single triggers the Ithaca/SKB is a fine piece as well. I had a Bernadelli 28 gauge but it had 25" barrels and I could not shoot it well so down the road it went.

Field Grade, That Merkel is one fine shotgun.. When I was involved with doubles, I looked over a couple.. But never made the plunge.. It was one I really wanted but never had.. Now it will be pump guns for the rest of my days.. Always like to see those guns..

Gary, what would that be? From up on the hill it looks to fit the description of long and lean.

My CZ Ringneck in 16 ga has 28 inch barrels

Ive always liked CZ rifles, quality arms albeit heavy. Any other deciding factors between the ringneck and bobwhite, besides the triggers and grip? Thinking a 20 w/28" barrels might be nice. Gonna have to hold one.

Thanks WCH,,,,, it's one sweet gun for sure.
Over engineered like everything the Germans do but still lite enough for an old geezer to carry all day.
Like Battue said, "it would easily render a guy a lifetime (or two) of service".

I really like the "Prince of Wales" grip on the Ringneck better than the Straight with the Single Trigger. If i could change anything on the Ringneck i would add Auto Ejectors

an old H&R 16g that was my grandfathers. been hunting the king of upland birds with it for 30 years, hell i only get one shot anyway.

Ya, but when that second or third Bird busts out a second later is when the fun really starts.

Once had 7 comeout one at a time and all open shooting. Reached in my pocket for more shells and was having a hard time getting them into the chamber. It wasn't until too late that I noticed I was trying to shoot a bic lighter.

Very true.. When I shot doubles, the second and third birds always waited until I had missed a shot and broke my double to reload.. Then beautiful straight a ways!!!!!

I watched a buddy one time empty his gun at a straightaway bird out across a clearing- a rare occasion on several levels. He ran after it frantically re-loading as he loped across the clearing. Darned if he didn't get another shot and killed it. (We figured the bird lit onto a tree branch on the other side and took off again when he got close. But still, the way it played out it looked for all the world like he chased that bird down!)

Okay That brings back memories right there! Wasn't using a double that day but a Beretta 391 and by accident loaded a Bic lighter in the tube. Took me a couple minutes to figure out what had happened, why didn't my gun go bang? Luckily I was smart enough to check the bore. That Beretta loaded that Bic but pushed it down to the forcing cone. LOL Could have been exciting if I just thought it was a miss feed. Yeah buddy!

I started off my hunting in Maine with a 870 12 gauge chasing snowshoe hares, Ruff's and woodcock. Killed a lot of game with that gun. Then my baseball coach offered me a opportunity to use his Franchi O/U one afternoon. I was converted. We went though some nice cover and a pair of ruff's busted in front of red dog and I instinctively swung on the one to the left, BANG, down went that one and immediately swung on the bird going right, BANG, that one went down. At the time I was 16 or 17 years old. By the time I was 24 I had owned a Holland & Holland O/U, Browning BSS, & Beretta 626. After that a Vernadelli, Browning Citori's, Winchester 21's and a handful of Beretta O/U's & SS.

Today I use O/U for targets and SS for hunting birds. With a short time using that Beretta 391. A fellow bird hunter convinced me that opening the action after shots I would miss more birds than having a pump or auto. Well I just shot more shells with less birds to show for it so I went back to my beloved doubles.

Chokes, Loads, & barrel length has changed since moving to the west. But when I was hunting tight cover back east I used a 12 with Skeet Chokes, 7-1/2 1-1/8 oz hand loads, and 26" tubes. Never anything tighter the I/C.

Out here I use a 12 gauge 28" tubed Centaure Liege Royal Crown Grade made in Belgium, Skeet 1 & Skeet 2 custom cut fixed chokes & forcing cones. Loads are 7-1/2 1 ounce to 5's tin plated 1 ounce depending on what I'm hunting. And most times carry both loads. In the same day I can get into, Pheasant, Cali Quail, Hun Partridge, & Chukkar. Hit the mountains and you'll find Ruff's, Blue Grouse & Spruce Grouse.

Grew up in PA, had property in WV, but don't believe I have ever shot at a grouse, though I'd like to kill a few just for the near heart attacks they've given me flushing underfoot. I would use my franchi 48 20 ga. if given the opportunity, but thinking back on every flush I've ever seen, not sure what my chances w0uld be of success, those birds don't play fair.

That's the fun of grouse hunting! A good dog will up your chances 100 fold not to mention you get to hunt over a dog.

Words of wisdom right there.

Scored a nice 26" IC barrel for my beloved old 870. The new SxS or Auto will have to wait. Rather save up for a quality arm...oh and my daughters dentist bills

Cant wait for October. Guess I have to dust off the gobbler getter soon.

Excellent, when I was a kid, I order a new shotgun with a 28" mod. barrel.. When it arrived it was a 26 inch IC.. I was really up set til small game opened.. It was deadly.. You're set now. Enjoy..

Good call.

I agree!

That said, my favorite is my Rem 870 Express 20ga. I've shot carried that thing to hell and back, and it shows. But it works EVERY single time.

I've now been carrying it for turkeys since the gun is nice and light, and I'm so used to it.