I recently purchased a Ruger frontier rifle in .308. A very compact/short gun with a 16" barrel. I would appreciate some suggestions on which of the med-high end, compact scopes would be a good fit. Zoom or fixed.

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The Sightron SII Series has many features found on scopes costing hundreds of dollars. The one-piece body tube with multi-coated optics has become legendary with competitive shooters and hunters alike. It's the one scope that mounts to any weapon.

This Sightron Compact Scope was designed specifically for short action receivers. No matter how critical your mounting space is, this scope will fit your firearm like a glove.

Sightron offers a lifetime warranty. They are certain their scopes and binoculars and spotting scopes will live up to your high expectations and never let you down. In fact, they are so sure of it they stand behind every Sightron instrument with a written Lifetime Warranty.

-Finish: Satin Black
-Reticle: Plex
-Tube Diameter: 1"
-Weight: 10.93 oz.
-Length: 10.90"
-Field of View @ 100 yards: 25ft.
-Eye Relief: 4."
-Click Value @ 100 yards: 1/4" MOA

BrocksDad

Do you know where are Sightron's made? Where are they serviced?

They may be a bit pricey but I can take my Oregon build Leupolds right up to the front desk and get them serviced with a smile.

I put a Leupold 3x9 lightweight compact on a Kimber SA Montana this year and have been completely satisfied.

Rather than a "real" compact, I'd put a 1.75x6x32 VXIII or a 2.5x8x36 VXIII on it. Yeah, they're Leupolds.

RickyD,

I've got a 2.5-8VXIII, one of my favorites, but a bit long for this piece. 1.75x6 would be better.

Sightron has there own manufacturing plant in Japan. Not sure where they are located stateside for service.

Roy

I put a Leupold 3-9X36 VarXII compact on my wife's Model 7. Obviously, doesn't have the light gathering ability of a 40MM but she primarily target shoots & may use in Africa.

Sightron is Japanese built, based in North Carolina, and as for service, if the scope has a problem, they just give you a new one - no questions asked.

If I were looking for a compact scope, it'd be between Sightron and Leupold, and no one else.

I've been running a Sightron SIIB vs. a Leupold FX-III for about a year now, and I STILL cannot see enough difference between the two to say that one is significantly (or perhaps even slightly) better than the other.

Either, are great choices.

Oregoncoot, to have the ability to be that close to Leupold would be a no brainer for buying their product. Has to be nice to be that close.

The Sightron's as said in this post are made in Japan and imported and serviced by Sightron in Youngsville NC.

I have called and made suggestions and asked many many questions and they have been simply wonderful to deal with. I haven't had to return any of my Sightron Scopes to them for service but have heard from many that the service has been great.

Hope this helps

Rob

In the compacts they make a 2.5-10 with 4" eye relief @ 10.9 OZ
and a 4X32 with 4.5+ " of eye relief @ 9.3 oz.

I have the 2.5-10 but don't have nor have I used the 4X32 but from a glass and durability standpoint they have been awesome for their price point.

I should be getting the 4X32 in about a week and the FXIII 6X42 is suppose to be here tomorrow so in time I will do a comparison on the 2. Obviously not apples to apples since the Leupold is 6X42 and the Sightron is 4X32 but, will try to sort out the info I can.

Again have fun

Rob

Fish, set it up for the scout scope configuration & get the Leupold FX-II 2.5x/28mm IER Scout scope. At 7.5oz. & 10.1" long & having Multicoat 4 lens coating and 1/4min. click adjustments,it will compliment that short barreled rifle design.

If your willing to pay a bit extra, the Kahles CL 2-7X36 is an incredible scope to work with. Very Bright in low light. One of my all time favorites.

Rob

While it's not what most would call a true compact by far my vote for the best of the smaller scopes would be the Leo 6x36 with the LR dotz in it.

Dober

The 6x36 is really good. I also like the 2-7x Leupold UL, as it is pretty darn bright for the small lenses and VERY light. If you really want a super-light scope the 2.5x Leupold UL is only 6.5 ounces, and just about indestructible. Most people can shoot stuiff farther away with it than they imagine, but it doesn't pick out details in thick cover like more X's.

The Burris Short Mags are also very good, and the Sightrons of course.

Damn, JB..... you just killed all the argument right out of this thread before it even got going.

Thanks,

How's about a FX-II 4x? The more I use my M8 4x the more I dig it. Although most of my rifles have either 6x or 3-9x.

Rob,

I agree with you totally. I own a lot of Leupolds, but for low light and crystal clear optics, the CL 2-7X36 is fantastic.

I recently picked up a 2-7x32 Cabela's Alaskan Guide out of their online bargain cave for $99. Made in Japan and a very nice little scope.

IIRC Natchez has a heck of a deal on same size Browning labeled for about $129. Those that have them compare well with the Bushnell Elites.

Lots of good options out there.

GE

I think a plain VX-II 2-7 with LR would be pretty tough on that rifle....

On a little rifle like that I'd be running a straight tube scope for the "cool" factor, either a Leupie 2.5x or a steel-tubed Weaver K series in 2.5 or 3x.

I like my Leupold 1.5-5 VXIII's....can't seem to get enough of them!

Wes in AZ

I'm sure you do! What's not to like!! It's a LEUPOLD!!!

til later

Hi Rob!

Could you please post more of your impressions regarding the Sightrons (both the 2.5-10 and the 4x) here when you can?

I am quite interested in another low-power scope with long eye relief for my .375 H&H (ever since I let a guy shoot the rifle, and my scope cut him so bad I had a hulluva time getting all the blood of my rifle!). These scopes with their long eye relief (and your glowing report of the company) sound interesting!

I am particularly interested in the reticle: I hope it is real bold duplex (I'd prefer a genuine German 4 reticle like my Swarovski and Zeiss scopes, but a bold duplex is the next best thing!).

John

Rob,
I too have a sightron 4x32 on order--or I should say backorder. I'm hearing it'll take two weeks. If you get yours first, I'd be very interested to hear about it.

I have used a burris short mag 3x9. It did have long eye relief, but it was picky about head position and the view had a slightly rounded fisheye look to my eyes--especially towards the top end of the magnification range. It was nice and compact and made for a handy rifle, but I ended up getting rid of it. It might be that a straight 4x burris short mag would be quite different. It did not come with a particularly heavy crosshair.

Ella:

This is exactly the sort of thing (head position being critical and fisheye look) that does not show up in formal specifications, and the sort of thing that I'd sure like to hear about from Rob and yourself when you have the chance!

john

After a few problems with variables I have gone back to fixed scopes and find them more reliable. There are some really small fixed scopes out there that really do great duty on a small rifle. I am a bit of a short rifle fanatic.

The old straight tube Burris 4X compact was and is a gem. One sits on my wife's Rem 600 in 6mm Rem the same scope has also sat on my 6.75 pound 358 Norma with no issues..a rifle which has trashed 3 other scopes, a Redfield, a Leupold and a Simmons.

The Leupold 2.5X is also a really nice scope very light and it is holding down 358 Norma duties for the last 200 rounds or so.

The Weaver and Leopold fixed 3X's are also very good, the Weaver version sits atop my Savage 99 in 284 If you can find a Leupie in 3X they have a fantastic status with some. The Burris compact 6X is on my wife's micro medallion in 223 and has been a great little scope that looks great on a light walking gun.

An old 1.5X Weaver holds down duty on my 450 Marlin guide gun, a 4X Leupold Compact on my Rem 660 in 6.5 Rem Mag is a good fit and a Weaver 1-3X is my lone variable on my Rem 660 350 Rem Mag.

Don't put a big scope on a little gun. It cancels out the handiness advantages of the short guns. I'd trade all the above scopes ( Except the Leupie 2.5X) for older model Burris mini 4X's. They are that good!

Don't think I'm gonna spend the $ for the Kahles, I'm a little nervous about the bolt clearing the eyepiece as well. So it's either the Leupold or Sightron. Which one?!

I have the Sightron 4x. It is a good clear scope with good eye relief. It is SHORT however, and you won't have much room even on a short action. They eye piece/ rear bell is big and takes up a lot of room. There is just enough room to fit your rings and if it doesn't line up with your mounts, too bad. Even on some short actions, it is very tight and pretty inflexible.

Sounds like the Leupie Compact fits a whole lot better, as usual.

Those would be my choices too......


Casey

Cossatotjoe, is the eyepiece on the sightron causing you bolt handle clearance problems? This is something I want to avoid and my impression was that the eyepiece was small compared to the Elites and Conquests. Is Leupold the scope for a small eyepiece?

"Don't put a big scope on a little gun. It cancels out the handiness advantages of the short guns."

I'm in this camp. North 61, what kind of eye relief do those Burris 4x scopes have?

The eyepiece on the Sightron is the same size as the Leupold. However, the tube length (and OAL) is about an inch shorter than the comparable Leupolds. That can cause problems on some rigs.

Ella,it might help if you could give the measurement from outside to outside of your rings when mounted at there closets setting.

til later

Cossatojoe and VAnimrod:

Good point about the tube length. I had temporarily forgotten that! I will get out the tape measure before placing my order!

John

You can get some idea as to how critical the eye relief on a given scope by reading the specs on it. If it has a fixed eye relief, the eye relief varies very little as the magnification changes, it is going to have a more critical eye relief than a non fixed eye relief scope. The wider the range of eye relief, the larger the eye box or the more non citical the scope's eye relief will be. The shorter the overall eye relief of the magnification range is on a non fixed eye relief scope, the more critical it's eye relief will be, etc.
I can't quantify this. Just general tendencies I've noticed in playing with lots of different scopes over the last several years. E

You can't quantify anything, and oh yeah you haven't played with many scopes - you like to talk about scopes you've never touched before however. Good to have you back in action to start stirring the pot again, it would be a shame if people could actually have a pleasant conversation around here . . .

If at all possible anymore I try to determine E/R by actually handling the scope rather than going by the specs. As an example,the Sightron l 3x9 I bought last summer has no where near the E/R the specs read. It's still a very nice scope,just not for a hard kicker. Some scopes simply by their reputation for good E/R seem to work out. Somewhere on the optics forum was a discussion about,I believe a Burris Compact maybe,that the specs read of a very short E/R but the poster said that wasn't the case at all. I rather be safe than sorry and either see for myself or have someones hands on experience.
This applies not only to E/R but to all facets of a scope!

til later

I own both those scopes as well as four 2x7s. I would recommend any of them. Some of the compacts are too short.

Well, for another answer, you can just slap a Leupie straight 4x on there. It is plenty compact, has an easy mounting length, great eyebox, and only weighs 9.3 or 9.8 ounces. Tough to beat.

No, really, you can't. You actually need to look through them (which I know is against your religion).

Wrong. False. Incorrect. Just as it was the first 2000 times you said it and were corrected on it.

No it's not. It's something you made up. We all know how many of these scopes you badmouth you've actually "played with."

You originally didn't understand the numbers in Leupold's specs, thinking they were eyebox measurements not how much the eye relief changes. After being corrected you have simply made up the connection between moving eye relief and non-critical eye relief on any given power. It's like checking your oil by looking at your gas gauge.

Tell me, does your Leupold Compact 3-9 (the one with such a lousy eyebox) have fixed eye relief? Then why is it so bad? Do you really think all fixed eye relief scopes are worse than this?

That's what you get for not looking.

Nothing further needs to be said, you look like a complete idiot for this batch of lies, seriously do you think people believe you? How wide of a range of eye relief does the Leupold 6x have, or that's right it's fixed like it's power - that pretty much goes against what you preach . . .

Dang, gettin' kinda heated up around here.

I have a Sightron 2.5-10 Compact that I love. Good eye relief and easy to mount low with that 32mm front bell. I also have 2 Burris 4x Short Mags mounted on a Marlin 336C 30-30 and a Ruger 77/44 stainless. They are perfect on those rifles, tons of eye relief and a pretty decent field of view. I sent one back to Burris for the $50 Heavy Duplex swap and liked it so much that I'm going to do it to the other one as well.

What I really meant is that it is long compared to the rest of the tube. In diameter, it is probably small to average. As for causing bolt clearance problems, I wouldn't know. The only things I could mount it on are a muzzle loader and a 30-30. Currently, it sits on the ML. I can vouch for the eye relief though, as that it is a very light ML and a shoot 150 grains in it with nary a problem on the eye relief.

You asked about the Burris 4x. I have one and I really like that little scope. It is really short as well, but since it is a straight tube scope, it has a lot of room to put rings. It has A LOT of eye relief. I don't care what the specs are supposed to be, I can probably get about 5 inches with it.

On a compact rifle I would opt for the 1x4 Leupold varible or one of the old 3X Leupolds..I have been using them for years..I see no reason for a scope larger than 4X for any big game hunting. to put large scopes on carbines is like putting a 250 horse motor on a row boat IMO...

Well, I'm humbled. My new Sightron sii 4x compact came in. Nice glass! Eye relief by my measurement (flashlight aimed in the objective lens, index card moved back from the ocular lens until the light is clearly focused on the card) is 4.75"!

But the darn thing is a 1/4" too short to mount on a Savage short action, even with a Talley one-piece LW extension ring. It would work if I used an extension ring both front and back--and would position the scope perfectly to my eyes. But both rings would be at the extremities of the scope's mounting space--up against the slant of the tube at either end. I've heard--and sightron's instructions mention--this is undesirable. Does Talley sell single extension rings? Should I just forget it, send it back, and get a darn leupold? Go with a different mounting system?

(I should have take some folks advice several posts back and done a careful measurement. I figured if I could mount a burris short mag--with a little room to spare even--I could get ANY scope on there, so I just eyeballed it. Sigh.)

Just checked the specs(4.4")on your scope tube. The narrowest base/ring combo I've been able to come up with has been Weaver bases with Leupold Rifleman vertical split rings. The rings are narrow and make for VERY light ring/base setup. I guess if you could give the meas. between the two base mounting screw holes that are fartherest apart I might be able to determine if they'd work. Worth a try!

til later

Here's a schematic of the dimensions. I double checked them on my scope--they seem accurate.

http://www.midwayusa.com/technote.exe/technote?SaleItemID=551415

Oal length of mounting surface (B in the schematic) is 4.40".

EZEARL, I appreciate it. I believe it was your advice I was ignoring earlier.

I get 5.65" between the two farthest apart screw holes, measured from center to center of each hole....

I'll see what I can come up with!

til later

I just bought 4 Nikon Monarch 2x7's for $189.00 these are great scopes & fit a Remington 700 short actions perfectly.

I need you to go here:
http://www.weaver-mounts.com/charts/charts.aspx
Let me know which bases fit your rifle,especially the rear base.I
have a 46 rear(but some short action Savages take a 61)and a 402 extension front that I mounted as best I could at 5.65" with a set of Leupold Vertical split rings attached. It's gonna be close! But lets see if the rear base I have is the right one first.

til later

EZEARL, nice chart. I'd have to use the two piece 46 bases front and rear--this is an accutrigger left handed model 11 (with some modifications). I am grateful for your help. I'm getting on the phone to call a couple folks I know nearby who may have a Talley extension that I can borrow to pair with the one I have and see how that set up looks.

gahuntertom, there are some great deals on scopes out there, no doubt. But I'm looking for something fairly specific: 4" eye relief, small eyepiece for bolt clearance, under 40mm front bell. Light weight is less important than durability. I want something I can set up and forget. The scope equivalent of iron sights, no fuss, no muss.

This sightron would work great if I can get it to fit. This is a nice little scope....

Don't know if this qualifies as a true compact, but my favorite Leupold is the 2.5-8 VX3.

Roy

They're great scops, but the designers need to be horse whipped. An extra half inch whould make all of the difference in the world.

Don't you think that extension rings on the front and back kind of ruin the look and purpose of a trim and compact scope?

"They're great scopes, but the designers need to be horse whipped. An extra half inch would make all of the difference in the world."

Ain't that the truth. Wonder what considerations those folks were considering.

I've seen some ugly looking extension rings, but the extended Talley's don't look too bad to me. Anyhow, if I have to choose, I'll take function over elegant looks. (Those opposed to Savages would say I have no choice.)

I mounted the scope with one of the bases loose and boy is it nice to bring that thing up to the shoulder and look straight through the tube, no head adjustment necessary. Pops right up, which was what I was trying to achieve. I like this scope, real nice glass, lots of room to grab the bolt, kind of low key without flash and gold lettering and whatnot. Purposewise, I think it'll do ok if I can get it on there....

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Top base ia a Weaver 402 extension base. Bottom as you can see is a 46 base but I don't know the manufacturer. Two 46s(which I have although one is marked L46) with Leupold Rifleman Vertical Split rings should give you an outside the rings measurement of no more than 4 1/4". Below is what they look like assembled. I'm heading to town over the weekend and I'll see what find out about the bases.

til later