There have been a few users here that have recommended the eight powers over the ten power.

Being an admitted greenhorn on higher end sport optics why wouldn't you want the extra power?

If one is in the bush I get it, but would anyone choose eight power over ten in open mule deer country..if so why?

What is it that some like the eights over tens, brighter, wider field of view, what is worth sacrificing the extra power in open country.

Thanks for the following lesson.

I wouldn't recommend an 8x over a 10x, I like 7x the best.

Shake. It is much easier to hold an 8x steady and the extra 2x isn't worth it to me...simply don't need to sdee the mountains on the moon. The other issue is brightness. More power means more light is needed....so bigger objective lenses are needed for low light conditions, hence a heavier and larger bin. Frankly, I'd go for a 7x42 power and that is what I did. I can hold mine steady with one hand while holding my rifle in the other. This size gives very bright sight pictures even in low light conditions and they are simply awesome. The do duty as bird watching bins and I use them for everything from hunting to watching nature. Go small. That is my recommendation. Remember, size isn't everything, no matter what she says.

That's a real personal choice, but I'd take 8x over 10x at most any price range. There are several reasons. One is that when you compare 8x vs 10x of the same make and model the 8x will be brighter and have better resolution. Next there is less image shake as the 10x also magnifies shake by 20% as well as the size. The 8x glass has a wider fov and generally is easier on the eyes for extended sessions. I like lesser magnification for even open desert country because they deal with heat mirage better than the 10x. However, lots of people prefer 10x because they like a bigger image and there are those who can hold a 10x steady enough. Also when conditions are right there is a real use for 10x glass. I have a 10x glass and I like it a lot, it just is not an all around choice most times for me. I'd say look at as many as you can and make your own personal choice. Actually I really prefer 7x as an all around choice.

I didn't read the question too closely, but the answer is 10x.

All things being equal:

An 8x will have better resolution ("the" ultimate criteria for bino), larger field of view, larger exit pupil, be brighter for longer in twilight, and have less image shake. The last is what tips the scales for me in favor of the 8x.

A 10x will have a better "twilight factor" however, (8x TF = 18.33 and 10x TF = 20.49), which is a function of it's higher magnification, and of course, higher magnification does have its other obvious inherent advantages.

Here's a way to compare:

At 800 yards, the 8x will make objects appear to be at 100 yards.
At 800 yards, the 10x will make objects appear to be at 80 yards.

Consider the factors in paragraph 1, and make a decision as to which way you want to lean in the inevitable optical compromise.

For me, it's the shakes. I tend to glass for long periods at a time, and I experience much less eye fatigue over the course of a day with lower-power binos. Since I've begun using 15x on a tripod, I have really become spoiled, and the "shakes" are much more noticeable when glassing handheld. The advantage of image steadiness on the lower power glass has become even more noticeable to me. So I opt for the steadier glass, and get the resolution, FOV, brightness, etc., and concede the TF and magnification.

rb

So then what it sounds like you are saying you don't believe there will many situations that you will be able to see more detail with a 10X even at greater distances? What would you consider conditions you would grab the 10X?

This is pretty new to me, most everyone I know has opted for 10x42, but most of my friends are casual hunters, but we all pretty much hunt open mule deer country.

I do remember years ago I had a pair of Zeiss Delitrims 8X30 for the ball games and remember they did have a crisp view more so than the 10X I bought years later, but I attributed that to Zeiss vs mid range Nikons.

You mentioned in both of your post's open country. if you can hold them steady the 10x42 is the best choice, but some cant hold a 10x steady enough. if you could spend some serious time with both the answer would be obvious.
For myself I prefer the 10x42 and have no problem with eye fatigue as long as I stay away from using my spotting scope too much.
I also use a 15x56 bino for open country but have never seen anyone that can hold them steady with out a tripod, I sometimes will put my 10's on a tripod for a few minutes just to give my arms a break so that I dont get the shakes.
I see no need for an 8x but you might like them.
B

I can't add much that hasn't already been covered already except get the best binos you can afford at 7x or 8x. Tons of good choices and buy them from Cameraland, get multiple sets and send back the ones you don't like, can't beat that!

I have tried using 8X in the west;and they work well. But I have been using 10X for so many years that I find the extra magnification useful for me.Rick and others are right when it comes to issues of shake and movement with the 10X but I just get a sold rest and have at it.

I'd be happy to hunt with either but given a choice I will take 10X. Personal thing.

Actually, for me (again this is a pretty personal choice) there are not too many times where I can't get what I need from 6-7x. I have been using a 7x36 Swift Eaglet for awhile now and it is almost always my first choice out the door binocular. I hunt Mule Deer in sage/juniper desert and these have answered the questions I have asked of them. I don't have too much trouble holding 10x steady, but even then I like the lesser magnification. As I mentioned in my earlier post, heat mirage is a consideration for me. I have been able to see more farther away with my 7x than hunting companions with 10x have sometimes been able to see.

I hunt WYO almost every year, and these caffeine laden hands and eyes prefer 8x by far. Much less shake. If you're young, YMMV. I use Zeiss FLs 8x42. You really don't need more: They can pick out a deer or an antelope so far away that he'll be gone when you get there.

I've been using 8s and sometimes find it hard to spot horns on smaller bucks at a distance depending on the background. Was considering going to 12s but after reading these posts sounds like could be tough without a tripod.

For all the reasons mentioned, I'll take an 8X over the 10's any day.

Roy

I've got three 8X binoculars, one 6X and one 12X. Of the bunch, the 8X get far more field time.
I've owned and hunted both 9X and 10X quality glass as well as played with stuff belonging to friends.
I hunt alot of open country. With the steadier 8X binoculars, I've been really surprised how much detail I can see way out there with them. Try a yound balck bear at 2.5 miles. Could see enough detail to place his ears high on his head an see a long, pointed snout, etc.
The thing about image shake is how much it robs you of the fine details you sometinmes desparately need to see. When I use a very heavy Leica 12X50 BN (46 ozs. w/ strap), it doesn't show me 50% more. More like 25-30% more. Image shake.
That's another point even more important than magnification. Binocular weight. I got quite a surprise comparing the light Pentax ED's to my Leica BA. On a tripod, they were too close to call optically. But, hand held, they were quite different. The further out the subject, the bigger the difference. At 1.5-2.0 miles, the much heavier Leica ( 34 ozs. w/ strap)could show me stuff I could see at all with the much lighter Pentax ED ( 26.5 ozs. w/ strap ). E

I asked the same question here and at the shop where I bought my Ultravids. The shop manager say they sell way more ten power binos than eight power, but most of their sales are to fairly inexperienced guys who just assume more horsepower is better, especially if it doesn't cost more. That said the ratio tightens up a lot on the high end Leica and Swarovski sales, there are still guys who prefer tens but most go for the 8x42 as a best all around binocular.

I ended up with a 6x30 Yosemite for bow hunting, an 8x42 Ultravid for all around use and a 10x42 Nikon SE just to have since they have discontined them. I love the SEs but really do notice the shakes after using the other two. The Ultravids are so good I really don't see that I am missing anything.

I have never really noticed all that much difference in shake between the 8x and 10x binoculars - at least there is not enough, IMO, to justify the big issue that is routinely made about it. To me this has always seemed like "much ado about nothing."

Where there really does seem to be a difference is in overall optical quality and sample variation - especially in binoculars retailing at say, under $600. In every such line I've had the chance to examine (including Nikon Monarchs, Bushnell Discoverers and Legends, Brunton Eternas, Pentax DCF WPs and SPs, Leupold WindRiver Cascades, etc.)the 8x options have been amazing in their unit-to-unit consistency whereas the 10x options have really astounded with their very high degree of quality variation. Some units have been very good where others have been utterly abysmal and yet others have hit everywhere in between these extremes. However, almost universally, the 10x models have shown more and bigger problems with optical abberations and have generally been of poorer optical quality than their counterpart 8x models.

BTW, this observation has proven less true of the high-end optics I've examined - those retailing for say, $1000+

I notice a shake difference between 7x and 10x whilst glassing for bears from a boat for hours on end.

Do you notice more shake with the 10x from a boat?

John, I can verify that from some of my own experience.
While in college I worked at a friends sporting good store once in awhile and saw pretty much the same thing. Same can be said for scopes. Most of the folks fashioning the 6x-InfinityX with 50mm objectives had the least amount of experience. That's not to say some people running these scopes don't know what they're doing, just more of an "on average" type statement. (same with binocs) Wonder how many times I had to tell a guy he didn't need a 4x12 on his 30/30. <grin>

7x42

...same for me. 10x is the only way to go in open country where I hunt.

from what I have seen on this thread if you drink coffee you prefer 8x if you dont then 10x is the way to go, mabey caffeine and glassing dont mix too well. I still think 10x is the way to go in open country.
B

I've been running my 7x42 SLC's since they first hit our markets. I've used em from Alaska to Sonora and have never wanted for anything else.

All eyes are different but for me I really like the 7's and the 8's and the 42's. If I need more gas, then to me I want a lot more (like my 15's on a tripod or a good spotter).

Dober

Ditto what Steelhead said about glassing from boats. On my hunts in southeast Alaska,I had an opportunity to use a lot of high end glass of 7,8 and 10 power;and much glassing was from boats.There, 10x's were put down pretty quickly and I found(for me) the best choice(given the constant dim light and overcast conditions,and the unsteady glassing platform) was a high quality 7x40 or 42. I actually found that even 8X was too much,and 8x30's were not so hot either.For me,the 7x42's were the best balance.Getting one power of binocular to do everything is like having one political party...good in theory but a bit naive in reality.

But this is different hunting from what is done in much of the west. The notion that 10x's are only bought by "inexperienced hunters" who only believe bigger is better is the silliest thing I ever heard. I number among my friends(hunt with them every year) some very experienced mule deer and elk hunters who have lived in mule deer and elk country their whole lives, and have killed more mule deer and elk than many who post on here have ever even seen; to a man they use 10x's, mostly Swarovski,with some Zeiss and Leica's thrown in.The idea that these guys are "inexperienced" is absolutely laughable.

Much the same could be said for 8X's in the hands of others. I would rely for about 5 seconds on what some sales man tells me about what binocular to use.If you need a salesman's advice about what bino to use for something,you have not spent much time behind binoculars....

I'm with Bob on this one, there are surely many times that 8x is the ticket, and I have them, but when it comes to my trips out west or to the alaskan tundra I will almost always use my leica 10x42 ultravids.

Prolly should have said the inexperienced and the REALLY experienced....<grin>

In my hands 10x is too shakey for general glassing all day long. But have you ever been with a guide or buddy and he could discern more about a trophy rack than you could? If so, he may have been using 10x. I have had this very experience so now I carry one bino in my pack and one around my neck depending on what I am using the binocular for.

Skane: I like your avatar......

OF the two, I'd go with the 8x42. Were it me doing the picking I'd go 7x42... I used my little 7x30 SLC's for a long time glassing out on the Big Open and never had a desire for more... if more is needed a lot more than 10X will be required, in which case out comes the spotter. The 7x42 has fewer glass elements than both the 8x42 and 10x42, a larger exit pupil and is less apt to shake... a quality 7x42 is like looking through a picture window. For strain-free glassing, absolutely nothing beats them.

I have absolutely no use for a 10x42. YMMV of course.

Where I hunt I can sometimes walk all day and not see a tree - wide open spaces. I have owned 10x42's and 10X43's - I now own an 8X32 and 6X30 all others have been sold. If I need more power than the 8X, the spotter comes out.

Well after reading all the posts looks like 8x is the favorite, but as recommended your eyes will tell you. I have both and use them in diferent situations, but when I am trying to disect a huge field of CRP in North Dakota I use the 10x, I have a platform on top of my hunting van where I sit in a lawnchair along the dirt road, trying to pick out antler tips in the waving grass, the 10x works best. Let us know what you choose

What do you use your bino's for? To spot game or to evaluate game you've already spotted? Surprisingly many folk don't use their bino's to spot much at all (and I'm not criticizing anybody's technique, I'm just relaying my own experiences). These folks see "something" with their naked eye and use their bino's to determine what it is. Or they see a critter with the naked eye and use the bino's to evaluate if it has horns--or how big of horns.

If you use them to "evaluate" and not to "spot" then 10x would be fine if that's the route you want to go. You're the person who has to pay for them and use them. (And just so my personal bias is known, I own one binocular, a Leica Trinovid 8x32BA, and currently have no plans to buy anything else).

Well that was admitted from the start.

Thanks for the input. Somebody advised a lightweight tripod along with 10X's for backpack hunting, I never thought of that option. I emailed Doug for his opinion and he was of the opinion that much of the difference in clarity was do to the ability to hold 8X's more steadily that 10X's more so than any difference in the glass. The one thing that has me confused is that most of the 8X weigh a tad more than the 10X, so why are they harder to hold steady? I guess you really don't, but it appears you do at less magnification?

When so much of the experience on the boards differs, I don't think there is a right answer at this point, it tells me rather it is a personal prefrence I need to get figured out by trial and error.

Thank again for everyone's input.

Hey I live in the west, have my whole life and hunted a lot of mule deer, elk, antelope and whitetail. All I have ever used was a 7x35 Leitz, a 7x50 Fujinon and for the last 12 years an 8x42 Pentax DCF, so I wanted to open myself to the possibilty of using ten power. Just because I have always used lower power bins doesn't mean I'm close minded. I asked that salesman who I trust and opened a similar thread here because I was going to be spending a huge amount (for me at least), and I wanted to get a lot of opinions. My closest hunting buddy loves his 10x42 SLCs, but he's the only buddy amongst my small group that uses ten power, so I was considering them. Also this particular salesman is a serious hunter, with a lifetime of hunting here in Montana, so his opinion is valad to me.

I didn't mean to imply that anybody who prefers ten power, does so because he is inexperienced, clearly my buddy who was born and raised on a ranch in SW Montana isn't inexperienced. That statement was made by the salesman to explain the huge disparity between national sales figures which show ten power beating eight power 4:1. Just compare that figure to this informal poll of people here, who I would assume are way above national average in experience and expertice. Personally I ended up with both 8 and 10 power, as I have caught the optics bug, so the jury is still out with me. Sorry I offended, didn't mean to.
John

I'm getting confuse regarding "the shakes" Are the shakes attributed to the weight of the glasses or the optics?

With the Leicas the 8X are actually a tad heavier than the 10X, why would you be able to hold the 8X's any steadier?

Thanks again.

I think in general the heavier the binocs package is, the steadier they will be to hold, like shooting a super light rifle versus a heavier one. But if the binocs got super heavy, say 40-50 oz, then they would be hard to hold steady due to muscle fatigue. If you had two pair of bins, one eight and the other ten, and they both weighed the same, they would shake exactly the same, but the ten would magnify the shake more, due to the extra magnification. Thats why most people recommend a tripod for 12 power and higher.

There are methods of hand holding bins steady that should help you use 10s, read the baseball cap thread for one of them, also some people put tension on their strap to help steady the bins. the other issue of 10 versus 8 or 7, is field of view; in general as you go with more power your field of view shrinks. Everybody is different on what they like in FOV, some guys really like big and wide, while others don't care.

I think what Doug was alluding to is the difference between a high end alpha bin at 8 power versus a low to mid pair at 10 power, the eight might beat the 10 in resolution due to higher quality optics. But when comparing 8 power Swaros to 10 power Swaros, that's the heat of this debate. Also I wouldn't think you would need a tripod for 10x42s, maybe 12x50s and for sure anything above that. Don't forget you can set them on your pack to steady them, sit down with your elbows on your knees, ect.

Both. Essentially, the more the magnification, the more the image shake simply because the magnification magnifies it.
Weight simply slows it down so that the eye can follow it more easily. I understand that a larger exit pupil size helps here too. An 8X40 mm binocular has an exit pupil of 5mm compared to a 10X40 with a 4mm exit pupil. Doesn't seem like much until you realize that a 5mm exit pupil has about 55% more area for the eye to roam around in, so to speak, of the image presented to it.
Barsness says he much prefers the 50mm size 10X over the standard 40/43mm sizes. With a 50mm binocular, you get both more weight and a larger exit pupil size to make things easier to look at and see. E

While Eremicus and I have had a difference of opinion on somethings, his advise here mirror's my experiences with regard to bino selection. A heaver bino does aid to holdind a bino steadier, and that accompanied by using a lower magnification makes your glassing much more effective. I think the general theme here from what folks have stated thus far is that some simply can hold a X effectively. But, from my own experiences and that of the majority of users, will find that the 8x offers a steadier platform. This is probably best seen when trying to focus a bino in lower light than during daylight observations. As mentioned in prior posts, the 8x's also offer a much better FOV which I find to be a big bonus as well. I had a nice pair of Bushnell Discoverer's in a 10x42 configuration and while they were a very good bino, I finally sold for the reasons already discussed. As Steelhead mentioned, he prefers a 7x bino which probably is the best for lowlight glassing. In closing, I think that the folks opting for the 10x's simply have the ability to hold a 10x steadily enough that image shake is not an issue. I will just add, and was mentioned by Eremicus and others. A heavier bino is an important asset for holding a bino steadily. Perhaps, if you have the ability to use some of the bino's you are considering you may find that holding a 10x might not be an issue for you as well. As far as the ability to find more game as well, the 10x doesn't really offer a significant enough advantage over the 7x and 8x's. Resolution is the most important factor in effective glassing.

Roy

Thanks for that. The trouble I'm finding is that nobody in this area seems to carry high end binocs, opting for a wide array of more affordable brands. I had hoped to get a look through the 8X & 10X Leicas to aid in my decision but doesn't look as if that might happen.

I went out today and looked through my 10X mid range Nikons and sure enough I do have a little shake when glassing freehand.

I'm reading where almost all birders seem to opt with the 8X but then again I would bet they are usually closer to their intended target.

Tough decision, I wish I could get me hands on a couple of pairs.

I hear where you are coming from and can say I have been there and done that.

Buy yourself a class A bin from any of the big 3 (Zeiss, Swaro & Leica) in a 7x42 or 8x42 and you'll have it covered no matter the situation. You will look through them and I'll bet your first reaction will be WOW or HOLY CRAP. If your wife complains about the cost, just show her what they look like and she'll also say HOLY CRAP and will never complain again. Better yet, buy her a set too.

I saw an email yesterday that said Camera Land has some Zeiss show demos on special and perhaps there you will find some good buys that satisfy your requirements. One that caught my eye was a Zeiss Victory T*FL 7x42mm for $999. That is the bin I have and they are nothing short of astounding to look through. That price is astoundingly low too! A similar Leica or even a Swaro will give like results. You won't regret it but I suspect you will regret buying cheap bins. That is what I did,...twice. I learned...slowly.

All the best.

John

I'd like to get a pair 7X42's for glassing from the pony. I only have 10X42's now, which IME work fine standing or sitting, but are a royal pain in the ass when the horse gets impatient.

Another vote for 8X

I walked to the edge of a huge oak brush canyon in SW Colorado one time to do some pre-season glassing before the start of the rifle season with a pack containing an 8X and a 10X(both Zeiss), intending to spend some time picking the oak brush apart.

I sat down, braced my back against a tree and started looking,alternately using both bino's, because I have been playing this 8X vs 10X game for about 30 years now, and generally bring both on my hunts.I picked this jungle apart for the better part of an hour before I saw anything,and then,with the 10x's, I started to find bedded deer, including two nice bucks. Once I knew where they were, I could "sort of" see them with the 8X, but it took the 10X to find them because the 8X lacked the "X"'s to make out what they were at a pretty long distance in that oak brush jungle.This scenario has repeated itself many times for me over the years,and I certainly have no problem seeing animals in the open with 8X's but for FINDING animals in hidey-holes I have found the extra magnification useful.

I do not generally carry a spotting scope with me, not caring to lug a bunch of extra stuff when I'm hunting,and depend on the bino's so this can make a difference.I frankly do not understand all the hoopla concerning "shake" with a 10X, because if you can hold a rifle steady enough to hit anything, you can learn very easily to steady up a bino for long range viewing. Guys will moan and wail about shakes with bino's, and then mount a 4.5-14X rifle scope, and think nothing of it...

This discussion is a lot like picking rifle calibers; what one guy likes another guy can't quite understand,based on personal preference and experience. I don't feel helpless with a 7X or 8X, but given a choice in open country, I'll take 10X. Many times,though, I have left them behind and grabbed a 7X or 8X because the country or circumstances did not require the extra power.It is not a bad idea to have both, and take the one that suits the circumstances for you.

Binocs are for seeing. I found myself missing the extra X of 10x when I bought my current Nikon LX 8x32's.

Well, I guess my method and experience is different. I use general purposes 7-8x bins to look for hours and if I see something worth a further look, I pull out more. With a 10x you lose some field of view, brightness and I find that eye strain takes its' toll as well. As for the scope analogy, with my 4-14x, I look off hand with 4x or 6x but sure can't hold it steady at 14x. That is why I use a bi-pod, a tree or pack when it comes time to drop the hammer. Anyway, to each is own. I am not saying there isn't a place for 10x but for general purpose all around (the 30-06 of bins), a 7x42 is the ticket for me. If you can honestly say you can hold a 10x steady for many hours of glassing off-hand and not get eye strain, you are fortunate.

The Sportsman's Warehouse in Roseville has them all.
Or you can order them shipped to you from Doug at Cameraland, and perhaps Cabela's or Midway. Trying them out at home for a few days is far better than just playing with them in them in the store. All you need is a credit card with enough credit and some time.
I can assure you this is the way to go. I know lots of guys who are dead serious hunters. They vary alot on this. Barsness, for instance, doesn't care much for the 10X40/43 class of glass, prefering the various 8X40 class. He holds the Meopta 10X42 (Cabela's Euro) is very high regard, however. JJHack, on the other hand, feels that the Leica BN 10X42 is the glass to beat. It's simply something you must decide for yourself.
BTW, I'm another guy that tends to carry twoo binoculars. An 8X32/42 for general glassing and either a 12X50 for detailed work or a 6X30 for heavy cover hunting. Another consideration. E

Eagle Eyes: No one can hold a 10X steady, off-hand, for hours on end. You gotta get a rest for serious viewing...

I live in Utah and we have had the worst winter/spring ever.......it snows every other day and we have hurricane Gussie on the days it is not snowing.
This weekend was a rare exception, 85-90 degree's in the valley's so it is time to head to the mountain's
I spent the weekend hiking and glassing, I had my bino's and several sets of my buddies bino's (along with water and power bar's) after spending the weekend with 9 different bino's from dawn to dusk to me if you dont have Palsy or a caffeine addiction a 10x42 is the best choice every time.
My favorite 10x42EL Swaro
B
p.s. unless you like a 10x50 better but they are just a bit heavy.

I have sure came to like my Fl 7X42's. I can't see needing any more magnification for what I use them for.....

A different sort of viewing, usually closer, but looking for fine detail and nuances of color, with a greater emphasis of field of view as well.

For longer range, the preferred tool is usually a spotting scope, from 20x on up.

Anyhow, my own favorite is 7x, easier to use with one hand, 6X OTOH, just doesn't cut it.

Birdwatcher

Birdwatcher

put me in the 10x'er camp. if only that my favorite way to hunt is big open country and spot and stalk method.


if hunting dense timber, by no means my favorite type of hunt, then 8x'er would be better.


I've spent many an hour, day, week and month, sitting glassing with my Zeiss Classics in 10 by guys that has Swaro's, Leica's and about every other brand you could think of.

never felt I was underglassed, but many a client felt they were after we traded off for a bit, sometimes they needed my glass to see what I was trying to show them, not so much if they had comprable 10x'er glass, but often times the guys with 8's needed them.

course part of it comes down to practice I realize, you glass all day every day, except when stalking, or butchering and you get used to picking out what others might miss on occassion.

still if I can hunt the way I like, from a good vantage point in big open vistas, I'll take the 10 all day long.

imo, the more country you can cover, the better your odds, I feel I can cover a bit more country with the 10's vs. 8's and especially concur with BobinNH statement about finding bits and pieces of game animals in hidey holes from far off. YMMV

tis just what works for me in the apps that I like to hunt, no flies on a good 8x'er, if you're more comfortable with such.