I've been a long time Leupold customer, but I'm a little confused as to my latest purchase.

I'm a fan of the Heavy Duplex reticle- I have two 1.5-5x's with HD, a couple VX-1 Shotgun 1-4x in HD, and a VX-3 2.5-8x with Post & Duplex which is very similar to HD without the upper vertical heavy portion. All wonderful scopes with just what I want for that style of reticle.

So for my latest rifle I thought I would try the VX-3 1.75-6x with HD. When I opened the package and looked through the scope, I thought something was wrong. There is almost no center 'thinner' area. The HD post portions come in to just about the center. TOTALLY different than any other of my Heavy Duplex Leupold scopes.

So I attempted to take a few pics. Not easy trying to hold the scope up the light, and trying to steady the camera in the eyebox... Here is my 1.5-5x HD. This is what I expect to see, my 1-4x is like this, and my P&D is similar:



And here is the HD on the new 1.75-6x, totally different:



Anyone else have this scope, and is yours like this? Nowhere do I see any reticle chart from Leup that looks like this. All HD's have a 'normal' center area like my 1.5-5x picture.

I'd take advantage of Leupolds vaunted customer service and get the reticle you paid for as per their own book and website.

My VX-III 1.75-6x32 has the tight center HD like yours. It's my only HD Leupold.

Looking at the reticle subtension chart it does indeed look like the 1.75-6 has a much smaller center opening than the 1.5-5

Actually their customer service has been great.

And as nsaqam mentions, their subtension chart does have a MUCH narrower center listed for the 1.75-6x. I have no problems sending my scope back for a refund, just wish I would've known that before ordering. I'll be swapping this one out to go back to another 1.5-5x.

But it would be nice to have a more accurate reticle image on their website for individual scopes instead of the generic ones that aren't like what is actually in the scope. Here's the image from the Leup website on the 1.75-6x product page:



That sure does look just like my 1.5-5x sight picture!! And sure doesn't look like what is delivered in that 1.75-6x scope. Even though the fine print details in their subtension chart do indicate the 1.75-6x HD has a quite smaller center thin area, they really should have a better representation of this.

Thanks for confirming, I'm not liking (for me) that narrow of a center portion. I much prefer the 1.5-5x HD sight picture.

I was serious about Leupolds CS being vaunted.
If nothing else, even the biggest Leupy haters must concede that their CS is above reproach.

You're right that the representation of the actual reticle in the 1.75-6 should be shown rather than making one go to the subtension chart to discover it is different.

I think a little note to Leupold stating that would be a good idea.

I've been a long time Leup customer, and have spent a lot of money on their products over the years. I've been a very satisfied customer in that time and will be exchanging this 1.75-6x out for another good ol' 1.5-5x HD.

But, they are going to get quite a note from me on this tomorrow.

I'm glad that the place I bought it from is great with full refund returns on optics, but it shouldn't be my burden of paying the $10 return shipping for Leup's poor representation of this.

Where would I find this subtension chart please?

You have to look in their catalog, some shops give them away or you can look at the pdf format in the following link. Much easier to read the actual paper catalog though.

Look on pages 100 and 101 of the catalog pages (not the pdf page designations) for the subtension chart.

http://www2.leupold.com/resources/downloads/2010_Optics_Catalog.pdf

Thanks for the pictures - a 1.75-6x32 we bought 2 years back directly from the states had that same ret.

We sold it shortly - I do not know what they think that ret. has going for it. To me it ruins a otherwise very practical rifle scope.

I have a 2.5-8x36 that I sent back to Leupold to have a HD installed. It came back exactly like your bottom photo. I have never been happy with it an am sending it back to put a standard duplex in it.

I had a VX-3 2.5-8x from their Custom Shop where I had the Post & Duplex installed, I'm very happy with that. Very similar to my first 1.5-5x HD sight picture, but without the heavier upper verticle portion, the upper vertical portion is the same 'thinner' line as the center area.

Absolutely! I really wanted this 1.75-6x scope for a new gun, I'm very dissapointed in that reticle. Beautiful optics, but that reticle makes it a no-go for me. Funny thing I noticed in the subtension chart is that the normal Duplex for that scope is the same narrow center area.

Too bad, nice scope. Would have liked to have it mounted on my gun.

So, I take it you are unhappy about the opening size with the thin section ?
A discussion with Leupold about this is odviously in order.
One of the reasons why the 4a is very popular is because of it's wider, more open thin section. That and the lack of a heavy top post is what many like.
I go for a thin section opening that will assit me with any quick ranging, holding off or over so I can quickly make a shot. I've gone, for most of my scopes, to the Heavy Duplex because I seem to acquire it faster in the field. That and I don't loose it after legal shooting hours.
One of the great things about Leupold is their customer service and their custom shop have lots of options for us. E

Yes, unhappy with the opening size of the thin section. That, and that fact that nowhere does it show that sort of opening size for THIS particular scope with the HD reticle.. Only in the very fine details of the subtension chart is there any evidence as to it looking the way it does when it arrives.

Even on the box for the 1.75-6x where it indicates the model and reticle of the product inside, it shows a picture of the HD reticle that is the same as their website's visual of the HD:



I enjoy the HD reticle for the same reasons as you, for fast target acquisition and low light 'boldness' of posts. The vast majority of my Leup's are HD. But none look the way this 1.75-6x looks.

I have sent an email to Cust Service this morning, with included pictures explaining what the issue is.

All mine are older HD Duplex reticles. I didn't realize they had changed them, but I kinda like it.

One advantage it may have is for distant shots in low light.

They didn't change them from what I can see, it simply depends on the MODEL of Leup scope. I have an old Vari-X III that looks the same as a VX-3.

But this 1.75-6x, for some reason, is a different animal.

That is strange. You should be able to get the one you want though.

How is the closer midsection messing up the low light goodness of the reticle for you?

The heavy duplex reticle in my Leupold 2-7 shotgun scope is identical to the one in your first picture.
I personally don't like the other one at all.

It's not, I just don't care for having that heavy portion come all the way in to the center. It covers up a LOT at low power settings. I'm almost wondering what's the point of even putting the 'plex' portion in that scope if you're going to have the heavy posts come in that far?

I really like what I've had for years (1.5-5x picture), and have had that HD sight picture across mulitple Leup model scopes. And that's what was advertised as what I would be getting in the 1.75-6x scope. I would have had no issue if they simply would have shown that particular 1.75-6x HD reticle configuration ahead of time. I wouldn't have ordered it.


As well as my 1-4x shotgun scope. Thanks for the confirmation.

Since I mainly use the regular duplex this tight HD was a big change for me. After a bit of field use I found it didn't cover up anything that mattered at ranges where I'd use the low power setting on this type of scope.

But if you don't like it then you don't like it. Leupold should be explicit about what a scope actually gets.

E,

Count me as wishing Leupold would actually provide a 4a reticle. I've got a 4a in a VXII 2-7 but it was done by Premier. Leupold now provides a #4 reticle which is different from the 4a. I had one of the #4 in a VXII 3-9 and sold it. Wish Premier or Leupold would get back to the 4a, I'd send several scopes in for reticle changes!

I have 2 VX-III 1.75-6x32 HD scopes and they have the same reticle as in pic #2. I don't like them nearly as much as a regular HD reticle as found on every other Leupold scope I've seen. I've tried unsuccessfully to describe the differences in previous posts, but I wasn't able to take adequate pictures. I don't know if it's worth the cost and effort have them replaced.

I've even sent several M8 4x scopes back for HD installation and they've all come back with crosshairs as in pic #1, so maybe it's something specific with this model of scope?

I have a VXIII 1.75-6 with the heavy duplex. It is the same as you've shown with basically no "du" to the plex. VERY narrow. I've had several other Leupolds with heavy duplex and the 1.75-6 is the only one I've found like this.

JCM

I'll just add that when I first started playing with the Heavy Duplex reticle, I didn't care much for it. It seemed to cover too much of a target, and it felt cluttered. Luckly, I kept it and hunted it for a few seasons. What I learned was that they are alot more practical for use in the field than I ever thought they would be. That and, if I use a large enough aiming spot, I can shoot just as small a group with one as I can with a finer reticle. E

at what range?

Dang, I like the newer style. If the fixed 4x was a bit longer and I could get the newer style in it, I'd be all over it.

I've got a VariXIII 1.75x6x32 that's about 8 years with the heavy duplex and it's the same as the second picture. I don't care for it much. I get everything I can with a #4 or 4a reticle nowadays if I can. The #4 is a better reticle than either of the depictions of the heavy duplex in my opinion.

I was told by Leup tech service that the heavy duplex that's used in a 1.5X5 can be installed in the 1.75X6.

Why it is different in the first place, is beyond me.

Although he's by no means looking for work after many many years still Wally Seibert continues to offer reticle changes and other services on Leupolds among other brands he continues to service.

Here's the Leupold Cust Service response to my question of why the different HD reticles:

Range estimation??? Was that in the instructions I should be reading?

John Schaefer (Father Frog) gave us a solution to using heavy plex at the bench. Use the 90 degree angle of the horizontal and vertical cross hair as your aiming point.

Doesn't seem to matter. Just use something you can see clearly. I've shot them at both 100 and 300 yds. repeatdly. E

Or you can just use a target that fits the reticle. Leupold has one that has four large black squares evenly spaced and works great for 100/200 yards. You just place the crosshairs so it's between the squares. I have shot many 1/2 moa groups with the leupold target and a HD reticle at 100 and 200 yards.

I'm up for a history lesson. Who is Wally and what does his company do?

It really is mostly history see e.g.:
Interview with Wally Siebert, Gun Digest Book of Scopes and Mounts by Bob Bell (1983)

J.D. Jones in American Handgunner.

Chuck Hunting with the 50 BMG By Daniel Lilja


Stuart Otteson in Rifle magazine writing about making weight in bench rest - Mr. Siebert offered hefty power boosts and other changes in lighter smaller scopes than the then common external adjustment Unertl and Super Target Spot and such. For many years Mr. Siebert was also effectively a custom work department for at least one major brand - not necessarily credited but never ignored.

Anybody have this scope with this reticle and likes it?
Black Bart has this scope for sale in the classified section
and I was debating about selling some stuff to buy it for my
Ruger 77 RSI 7mm-08 or just keep the Nikon Prostaff 2-7x32 shotgun scope that is on it now? Would the Leupold with this reticle best THAT much better than the Prostaff?(The Prostaff is brand new)
AMRA