Anyone had a chance to compare the Schmidt & Bender variable scopes to the newer Schmidt & Bender Zenith variable series?

If so how do they compare?

you wont get much repsonse here on S&B's.

I would ask @ accuratereloading.com on the optics forum and the european hunting forum.

I would also go to eurooptic.com and ask alex what he thinks.

I would PN roe deer on this board as well
I have a "standard" variable and thinkm its great FWIW

SAKO75,
Thanks for your response. I have been looking at the accurate site and there is some useful info.

I have several Leupolds as well as a Swaro PH 2.5-10*42 with the 4A. Really like the Swaro and am looking for another Euro scope. Have heard good things about the Schmidts and am considering one after looking through a �standard� variable but haven�t had a chance to check out a Zenith.

i sent you a PM

I'd like to try a Zenith someday also. The only thing that's stopped me (other than expense) is that they aren't available in the TDS reticle -which I love. -A little Ironic since the first TDS scope was a Schmidt und Bender (T.D. Smith showed it to me at the range).
I have a standard Schmidt und Bender and to me Optically it isn't quite as good as the Swarovski but seems a little stouter built. I've yet to break a Swaro yet so this point may be moot. I be interested to hear if you can make a direct comparison between the Zenith and Swaro PH, Good Luck........DJ

fwiw,
I've sold a few as of late and like the 1.5-6x42 Zenith with the Flashdot reticle. Their optical performance appears on par with the rest of the S&B line. My only quip is that they were not overly long to begin with and hence the shorter tube length may lead to mounting difficulties depending on the action. The other changes are largely cosmetic...

Would not know where to begin comparing them against the Swarovski PH. I've found the glass in the Schmidts to be very good, however, you can get a similar view through a host of other scopes. In short I don't buy Schmidts because they use glass refined by teutonic elves. But rather because of rather unique features and superb build quality...

Regards, Matt.

S&B website shows their variables having a constant 95mm of eye relief as oppsoed to the "standard" 80mm found on Swarovski, Meopta ect.

Unforetunetaly they don't say whether these are the "old" variables or the new Zenith range.

I have scopes by both Swarovski and S&B and while I have a gut feeling Swarovski are "better", its not by much and my next scope just might be another S&B...

Regards,

Pete

Older Schmidts vs. newer Zenith version:
Zeniths do have excellent glas & coating and very good ER without giving up FOV, they are sturdy, reliable - though neither lightweight nor cheap.
The Flash Dot technique is as good as Zeiss' Varipoint technique and the optics quality of the new Zeniths is a class on its own.
I have four Zeniths in test: one 2,5-10x56, one 3-12x50 and two Flash Dot version 1,5-6x42 (one on a .416) - no complaints at all.
Regards
RD

Roe Deer,

So you think the Zeniths are a worth while improvement over the "old" S&B variables?

Here in the UK the Zenith are about E100 more expensive than the old versions, so I am trying to decide if they are worth it or whether they are basically the same but with added "adverising hype", if you know what I mean..

Regards,

Pete

1. Yes
2. Don't know the pricing "in your spendid isolation" but I think you are talking Flash Dot version
3. Schmidt und Bender in my point of view is too small and too honest to jump on the advertising hype bandwaggon

Good shooting (I'm looking forward for another week of hunting in the Scots Highlands in Nobember!

Regards
RD

roe deer and pete e
here is what S&B said whe niu asked them a similar ?

"Here's the story regarding the optics of the 1,5-6x42 ZENITH Flash-Dot:
The optics for the 1,5-6x42 ZENITH Flash-Dot had to be developed
completely
new. But not to get brighter images or better resolution - the main
goal was
to include our Flash-Dot technology for the lit dot into this scope.
(We
introduced the Flash-Dot technology in the scope 1,25-4x20 Flash-Dot,
but
this solution did not work with the "old" 1,5-6x42 optics, so this step
was
necessary). The requirements for brightness, light transmission,
resolution
and so on stayed like they had been for the "old" 1,5-6x42. Since the
optics
for the ZENITH is totally new it is possible that it is slightly better
than
the "old", but like said before, this was not the main goal.



With best regards,

xxxxxx x xxxxxxx
Development Dept.


Schmidt & Bender GmbH & Co KG
Am Grossacker 42
35444 Biebertal
GERMANY

Thanks gents..

Today, I had a chance to look at Zenith 1.5-6x42 with the flashdot reticule and i was very impressed.

I generally use Swarovski as a bench mark and i would say opitically, these new S&B are a touch better than the equivilent Swaro.

What I found was that when both scopes were set to x1 1/2 power, their seemed almost a "halo" or lighter coloured ring, between internal walls of the swaro and the objective lens where as internally, the tube was totally black of the S&B.

Once the Swaro was turned to about x3, this effect dissapeared.

Roe deer,

In the UK, the flashdot scopes are fully a third more expensive than their "ordinary" cousins. The E100 difference I was talking about was between the "old" S&B variables, and the new newer Zenith, both an ordinary reticules.

Regards,

Pete

I have a new 3x12x42mm I would like to sell cheap. Let me know if you know some one who would interested.

duckin
Theres nothing quite like lining up your flash dot, on a big boar hog, in the desert, in south Texas, before moon rise.
After the moon comes up.You turn the flash dot off.You dont need it.
Also managed to make a shot on a running hog in broad daylight with the flash dot set up for daylight shooting.
Quartering away at 75 yards.You wouldnt think a pig could run that fast.Swung the rifle and placed the dot right on the front shoulder and touched her off.Kinda in one fast fluid motion.The bullet went right where the dot was.Those ribs sure were tasty barbecued.
Schmidt & Bender is acquired taste.Once you acquire it most other rifle scopes dont measure up.Just ask Matt in Virginia.
dave <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It�s been over a year since I started this thread.

In that time I�ve acquired a few other scopes. Now have two Diavari V�s (2.5-10*50 and 1.5-6*42) as well as a Schmidt and Bender Classic 1.25-4*20mm.

I had a Zenith 1.5-6*42 Flashdot shipped to me. I had a few days to evaluate it & make my decision. I returned the scope. Reason was simple. I wanted it for a long action Sako. When mounted the scope was just �barely� at the point where it gave me proper eye relief. I was not to happy with this when looking at the price tag of the scope. So it went back.

I tried extension mounts but the shape of the bell on the Zenith nixed this idea as it would contact the bottom of the Sako base. I then emailed S&B in Germany about the situation. I received a reply saying that they would give me all the advice I needed to remedy the situation. The writer said that extension mounts would solve my problem. So I got out my digital camera and added pics to my email reply to illustrate the probelm. Never heard from the S&B rep again. Even after a few more emails asking him for a solution.

The reason for the problem that I had is simple. The mounting area in the 1.5-6 Zenith is too small. What really gets me on this is if you look at the specs for the 3-12*50. When S&B designed this Zenith they lengthened the mounting area to 5.60" as compared to the 5.00" on the Classic 3-12*50. Good idea as the scope will be used on long actions. You would think that a lot 1.5-6's are used on long actions as well but the mounting area of the 1.5-6 remained unchanged on the Zenith as compared to the Classic. 5.10" for both.

I�ll say that the Flash Dot is a phenomenal reticle. Extremely fast to acquire and an aid in low light or broad daylight. The optics seemed first rate as well but I wish that I had the 1.25-4 Classic S&B at the same time as I had the Zenith. This would have given me the ability to compare the optical qualities of both scopes. I say this as I find that the Classic 1.25 has absolutely superb optics and I�d really like to compare both to see if the Zenith is the equal of the Classic. Probably have to arrange a test as I have a doubt on this.

I would like to address an issue brought up by Pete E. Both the Diavari�s that I have exhibit this effect. When set at the absolute lowest power there is a small ring of refraction around the outside edge of the field of view. If you turn the power ring just a touch (from 1.5 to 1.75) the refraction goes away and the scope appears perfectly black at the edge of the field of view. I assume this has something to do with the first plane reticle but my S&B does not do this nor does my Swaro.

So I sent one of the Diavari�s in for service. Just got it back. Zeiss got rid of a portion of this effect but not all. I�m getting ready to send it back again but would like to hear from someone as to what exactly this optical effect is?

Duckin,

Was just wondering if you used the Sako optilock mounts or some other. I have a long action Sako L691 in 375H&H & mounted a 1.5-6 x 42 S&B (non Zenith) - & I think the tube length of the Zenith is the same. I have heaps of mounting latitude, I used Sako Optilocks Lows in 30mm & they are not the extension ones. Just turn the mount around and have the front ring at the edge of the action opening.

Now that scope would not mount on my M70 375 so yeah a bit of extra tube length would be handy.

Regards
JohnT

duckin,
Thats one of the nice things about S&B. If you dont like it.You can send it back.They have had that "Seeing is believing" program for years.
I have a 1.24x4 but its the version a little before your classic model.With the smaller diameter ocular and 3.2 inches of eye relief.When S&B increased there eye relief from 3.2 to 3.75 the rear eye piece got about .08 bigger in diameter.
I have spent time comparing the 1.25x4 to the 1.5x6.
To be honest I'd take the 1.5x6 any day.Although the baby Schmidt will certainly get the job done,its not a flash dot.
I have also spent time comparing the 1.5x6 to some of S&Bs bigger scopes the 3x12-50 Classic and the 4x16-50 PMII.The 50mm objective is a PIA to carry around for the little advantage gained.In general I feel that the 1.5x6 flash dot will let me do anything the 3x12 will, in a smaller lighter package.But then of course,theres always the 3-12x50 Flashdot scope......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ive had three 1.5x6 S&Bs all on 700s with no mounting problems.Always managed to make it work out some how.
Always pretty much considered my rifles tools and never worried to much about what happened to the rifle.Scrapes and dings,no problem.If the thing breaks I usually have 3 or 4 more laying around.Ready to go.Cant say that about my scopes though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
dave

Check your PMs Steve.



Mac

JohnT - The gun is a Sako 75 in 375 H&H. I used Sako Optilock rings in 30mm low. I then tried it out with the extension bases but because the Zenith has a rounded objective bell the extension bases were useless. The bell will touch the base and not allow one to move it back any further than what is possible with the normal optilock bases.

Dave7mm - I too really like the 1.5-6 power. Very versatile. I agree about the 50mm objective. I have compared the 50mm Zeiss to my 42mm Swaro in lowlight and there is very little difference.

Just for kicks I recently compared the S&B 1.25-4*20mm to the Zeiss 2.5-10*50mm. Of course the Zeiss came out on top but I was really surprised at how good the 20mm was in low light. Kinda shocked me.

I could have made due with the flashdot but I don't see why I should fork out that much $ and have to make due. If S&B lengthend the mounting area for the 3-12 why would they not apply the same principle to the 1.5-6. After all the scope just barely did not fit. Another 1/4 to 1/2 inch and it would be fine. Which is what they did with the 3-12.

Don't get me wrong on this, I really like the S&B scopes. I just think they had a brain cramp by not lengthening the mounting area on the 1.5-6 Zenith.

duckin,
The square heads do tend to be a bit stubborn.I get a kick out of there booklet." Better to skip that last piece of pie than sacrifice reliability by having too light a rifle scope." I wasnt figuren on driveing nails with the stupid thing.
Back in the mid 80s S&B developed a 12x scope for metallic silhouette shooting.But ahhh kinda forgot to put a BDC knob on it.Betcha they sold alot of them.
Leupold.-For some unknown reason tries to develope a scope to compete with the Euros,the LPS.Dont get me wrong.The LPS has the best glass that Leupold can buy.But why?Its not there bag.Then, the add, "Our roots are showing"Like if we somehow associate ourselves with German optics people will buy it.Man, I hope they fired the retard that dreamed up that one.
Plenty of brain cramps to go around.The bottom line is that rifle scopes are far better today than ever before.
So far about 14 hogs and 4 deer have got the flash dot treatment.Im keepen mine.
dave

Dave7mm,
Glad you are pleased with with the scope. Don't gush about it too much or I'll get jealous and rethink my purchase. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A pic says a thousand words so here's the scope mounted on my Sako 75 SS .375 (V action size).

As one can see the rear portion of the scope bell is just about touching the front base. Therefore even with the extension rings it doesn't get any better as the two will touch and the extension is a no-go.

Ther's actually not a hell of a lot of room betwwen the power ring and the rear base either.

Too bad. An extra half inch would have made a diff.

As the Sako actions are sized for different calibers it should have a bit more room on the smaller caliber action sizes.