Was looking at a Vortex PST HD scope on a "short list" for it's turret and mid price point. They actually carry Vortex here locally in our small town. I got my hands on the 2-10X and checked it out.
Flipping it over revealed "Made in Phillipines". Was pretty disappointed in that. They still wanted $599 for the scope.
Are any of the Vortex optics USA made? If so, which line?
I do not want to comment on the quality of the glass. That is not the nature of your thread.
Vortex is simply a trade name. Just like so many other trade names. They don't make anything. They just buy from a mfr. and then they put their name on it.
So if you want to pay more and get less then buy them. Just remember there is one more middle man involved with the profits. And I consider that a bad thing.
I only buy glass that is made and sold by the same company. With their name on it!! This puts one less profit center in the sale. And hopefully you will be the winner in this deal.
Just remember the name Vortex, is just like other trade names like Simmons or Tasco or Bushnell. The name gets bought and sold. Once the name is sold the warranty becomes worthless. Tom.
Flipping it over revealed "Made in Phillipines". Was pretty disappointed in that. They still wanted $599 for the scope.
Jesse, maybe it's time to give up the mindset of "made in Asia = cheap and poor quality". That certainly doesn't apply to Vortex.
I don't give a bugger where they're made, I've got two pairs of their bins, two scopes and another two scopes otw to me. I think they're excellent optics for the money.
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I only buy glass that is made and sold by the same company. With their name on it!!
Not much made in the good ol USA anymore optics included, Leupold and maybe Sightron are made here and I'm not even sure about Sightron, some of the Asian made optics are excellent it's just sad to me that we don't make anything in this country anymore............Hillbilly.
Optics manufacturing went world-wide long ago, just like any other sort of manufacturing, from cars to televisions. Every company buys at least some components from another specialized company, whether screws or lenses.
I don't know of a single optics company that makes everything under one roof. Some companies may grind and coat their own lenses, but they don't make the glass itself.
A perfect example is the Zeiss Conquest rifle scopes. The only parts actually made by Zeiss in Germany are the erector tube and its lenses. The other lenses and main tube are made in the Czech Republic, and the major parts are assembled in the the U.S. Some of the screws may be made in China, along with the raw glass, since China has had a Schott glass plant for almost a decade.
Whether or not a company actually makes anything is irrelevant. What matters is the engineering and quality control.
Vortex is an American company that grew out of a parent company that sold optics from around the world. They don't "make" anything, but they tell optics manufacturers what they want, and then have those specific products made by those manufacturers. Vortex also tests and guarantees those products, and since the company has long been involved in selling top-quality stuff, they know what they're doing.
I only buy glass that is made and sold by the same company. With their name on it!!
What glass would that be Tom?
It would be long established companies like Swarovski, Zeiss, and Leupold. All three are manufacturers. NOT TRADE name companies. They make, market, and warrant their own products. Not some one elses. Even though I will admit that Leupold has dropped their standards a good bit. But yet they still have their own proprietary line. However Leupold is still an independent manufacturing company that markets their own products(plus some from another mfr).
I have scopes by all three companies that are 30-40 years old. And they are still covered by the same company that made them. How many trade name companies can you say that about?? How many trade name companies have been around, and by the same owner for 30-40 years?? Tom.
Whether or not a company actually makes anything is irrelevant.
Tell me that in 20 or 30 years when you want to take advantage of that lifetime warranty you were told you had when you bought that trade name product. The trade name may still be around, but it will have probably been bought and sold a couple of times. So your warranty will not be worth the paper it was written on.
Ask the guys who owned the old trade name scopes that had lifetime warranties. Then found out the company was sold, and only the name remains. Then tell me how irrelevant it is. Try sending a 30 year old RedField(that also had a lifetime warranty) to the current owner of the trade name. And ask the current owner(which is Leupold) to fix that 30 year old scope or replace it for free. Good luck with that.
A very hot selling scope in the 80's was the Charles Daly scope. Because it also carried a full lifetime waranty. That is when CD was owned by OSHI. Try getting that lifetime warranty scope repaired or fixed. Good luck with that.
You are thinking short term. When I buy glass I am thinking long term. 30 or 40 years, or more. When Vortex gets a 30 year track record then I might believe you. ButI bet there is no way you will get your current Vortex fixed for free or replaced in 30 years!! But you will get your Zeiss or Leupold fixed. They have that track record. That is as simple as it can be put.
I have had scopes fixed or replaced by Leupold that was over 30 years old. Try that with other trade name scopes. It ain't gonna happen!! Tom.
What about Burris? They have made scopes in the U.S. since the company was formed.
I know for a fact that Burris binoculars are made in China and Japan. I talked to a rep about it a few years ago. Their decent binocs are made in Japan by Bausch & Lomb, and their crap binocs are made in the same Chinese factory as everyone elses.
What about Burris? They have made scopes in the U.S. since the company was formed.
I know for a fact that Burris binoculars are made in China and Japan. I talked to a rep about it a few years ago. Their decent binocs are made in Japan by Bausch & Lomb, and their crap binocs are made in the same Chinese factory as everyone elses.
Yes and their Fullfield II scope line is made in the Philippines. Their Signature Select, Euro Diamond, and Black Diamond scopes are made in the USA. Where the parts come from I have no idea but everything is put together here.
Once again I'm reminded of why I don't post on the optics forum very often:
The company that owns Vortex is (like Leupold and Swarovski) a family-owned company that has been backing up the products they sell VERY reliably for over 20 years.
Many scope companies sell binoculars made in Asia--including Leupold, which provides the same guarantee as for their scopes. This is because NO COMPANY makes binoculars in the U.S. anymore.
Ghostinthemachine: It would be a major miracle if Bausch & Lomb "made" Burris binoculars, since B&L is an entirely American company that doesn't make scopes or binoculars anymore, and hasn't for many years. They make other optical products, including contact lenses, but haven't made any sporting optics for at least a quarter of a century.
The last B&L brand-name scopes and binoculars were primarily made by Light Optical, one of the top Japanese firms. This started in the late 1980's, as I recall.
Tell me that in 20 or 30 years when you want to take advantage of that lifetime warranty you were told you had when you bought that trade name product.
I am guessing that in 20 years, I will want a newer, and better scope.
On a side note, the Meopta Meopros are made in the USA. Although I believe the parts are built in Czech. I just cannot warm up to Vortex. Seems their marketing is more impressive than their optics that I have played with.
In the business world(sale of a product) you basically have three types of companies.
These three types would be manufacturers of the product, distributors of the product, and retail sales of the product.
Swarovski, Zeiss, Leupold are all manufacturers of a product.
Vortex is a distributor of someone elses product. So they are a middle man or distributor of a product.
There is no correlation what so ever between Leupold and Vortex. Or Swarovski and Vortex. Family owned or not. They are two totally different and distinct types of companies.
Two are manufacturers, one is a sales company. Pretty simple. Tom.
Once again I'm reminded of why I don't post on the optics forum very often:
The company that owns Vortex is (like Leupold and Swarovski) a family-owned company that has been backing up the products they sell VERY reliably for over 20 years.
Many scope companies sell binoculars made in Asia--including Leupold, which provides the same guarantee as for their scopes. This is because NO COMPANY makes binoculars in the U.S. anymore.
Ghostinthemachine: It would be a major miracle if Bausch & Lomb "made" Burris binoculars, since B&L is an entirely American company that doesn't make scopes or binoculars anymore, and hasn't for many years. They make other optical products, including contact lenses, but haven't made any sporting optics for at least a quarter of a century.
The last B&L brand-name scopes and binoculars were primarily made by Light Optical, one of the top Japanese firms. This started in the late 1980's, as I recall.
Just saying what the guy told me. Companies selling to companies.
I am guessing that in 20 years, I will want a newer, and better scope.
I bought a Zeiss 6X42 West German one inch model scope in the late 70's. This scope is well over 30 years old. I can honestly say it is still an excellent scope. Maybe you don't want to buy products that last a long time. Personaly I only want to buy high grade optics once, not every 10 or 20 years??
And I definitley expect them to last my life time, and the lifetime of whoever I leave it to. But then I know I can sell that scope tomorrow for twice or more what I paid for it back then. Buy quality once, and you won't want a new one in 20 years. Tom.
The late 80's for Bausch and Lomb sounds just about right.
I had a friend who worked in their manufacturing facility in Maryland(Oakland). He retired in the late 80's(early 90's-I don't remember the exact time) when they closed that plant down. He told me they moved all their lense facilities over seas, and were out of the sporting goods trade. Please keep in mind this is second hand information. Tom.
A lot of misinformation is spread by "what somebody told me."
There are some optics companies that sell whatever they buy cheaply. There are others that demand the manufacturer builds what they want. There are others that do the engineering in-house, and then have some other company build it. There are others that do the engineering in-house and the actual building in-house, whether with their parts or contracted parts.
Assuming that ALL companies that don't make everything in "their" factory sell sub-standard optics is really poor thinking.
You remind me of a friend of mine. I gave him a Savage .30-06 with a Leupold 3-9 forty-eight years ago. He still has it. About thirty years ago I gave him a Remington 7MM Mag with a 4-12 Burris on it. He still has it.
In that same time I have had maybe a dozen rifles and scopes. The only one left is my Klienguenther K14 I purchased in 1977. It had a 4-12X Burris. It has had maybe half dozen scopes on it. Even the Savage .223 I had was converted to a .257 Wea Mag. In fact that one will get the newest z5. The barrel from the .223 became my .224 MBOC.
I told him I am way more dynamic than he is. It is not that he is thinking about the future, he just doesn't change much. he is more static than me. If you have read my threads, you know I have already bought and sold three Swarovskis and gone through three Bushnell 4 1/2-30X50 scopes until I got the one I now have. I already ordered another z5 in hopes of getting one that is as good as my Bushnell in normal day light.
Neither of us is doing it better than the other. We are just doing what we do. There is slim chance for you to convince those of us who will purchase a Vortex. I have one of their binocs (6.5x32); which is very nice and light. Of course it is for sale. I would buy another Nikon 7-15X35 for the pickup.
Up until about the late 90's the B&L name appeared on Bushnell's Elite series riflescopes. I still have a B&L 4000 riflescope and a B&L labeled compact spotter (15-45x60) and Mule Deer is correct in that they were made by Light Optical Works, Japan. They still are and now have the Bushnell name on them.
B&L did not MAKE any binoculars or scopes in 2000, or for a number of years before that. Yes, there were B&L "branded" optics before and after that, but they were NOT made in Rochester, New York, but in various Asian factories.
If you "ditinctly remember almost buying a pair of $900 reverse porros at Cabelas in about 2000-2001," then I would bet $10,000 that if you "distinctly remembered" the same binoculars they would have been distinctly marked "Made in Japan."
A perfect example is the Zeiss Conquest rifle scopes. The only parts actually made by Zeiss in Germany are the erector tube and its lenses. The other lenses and main tube are made in the Czech Republic, and the major parts are assembled in the the U.S. Some of the screws may be made in China, along with the raw glass, since China has had a Schott glass plant for almost a decade.
As of 2008 you are incorrect as to the manufacturing, although they are assembled in the US.
You are correct about the outsourced raw glass, but it is made in Taiwan
I can recall people arguing 25-30 years ago, whether or not Balvar scopes were actually made by B&L. From what I recall, they were pretty good scopes, regardless of who made them?
I have Jap Tascos that are that old and still doing well, so WTH do I care? ;O)
Would appreciate knowing your source of information, since I was informed directly by Zeiss in 2009.
Standing in the Zeiss plant in Wetzlar, watching them grind glass, and make erector assemblies and tubes, all the while talking to the production folks as well as the President of the entire company and Erich Schumacher, Zeiss USA president
Guys I believe Bushnell and B&L still have business attachments. Not sure if it is affiliated with scope manufacturing or not(don't think so). But they still do business together. It never really did end. Just changed.
At one time B&L did manufacture sporting optics and then sold them under the Bushnell trade name. But now I think the affiliation is in other products like sun glasses and optical instruments.
There were alot of links between Bushnell and B&L. If I remember correctly the owner of Bushnell optics was actually an employee of B&L. I believe he was in management. But the owner of Bushnell was an importer of many products, with binoculars being his main import for many years. Tom.
Guys I believe Bushnell and B&L still have business attachments. Not sure if it is affiliated with scope manufacturing or not(don't think so). But they still do business together. It never really did end. Just changed.
At one time B&L did manufacture sporting optics and then sold them under the Bushnell trade name. But now I think the affiliation is in other products like sun glasses and optical instruments.
There were a lot of links between Bushnell and B&L. If I remember correctly the owner of Bushnell optics was actually an employee of B&L. I believe he was in management. But the owner of Bushnell was an importer of many products, with binoculars being his main import for many years. Tom.
Your info is about 10 years out of date.
During the 1990s Bausch and Lomb allowed the Bushnell company to lease the B&L name for use on sporting optics for a time after the split.
That agreement expired about 10 years ago. Which is why the High end B&L marked Optics became "Bushnell Elites" instead of B&L.
Bausch and Lomb made it clear they want NOTHING to do with the sporting optics business. They have considered themselves to be a medical products company(prescription lenses, eyewear etc) for the last 15 years since they sold off the sporting division.
And BTW, my info comes from the same source as John B's. direct from folks who have worked at the top levels of Bushnell's marketing dept since the 1970s until just a few years ago. I have known those same people since the late 1980s.
Typical internet...you never know what to believe. I recently read somewhere that the Conquest glass was outsourced from Meopta (which is in fact in Czech). Now somebody else is claiming it is made in Taiwan...
Typical internet...you never know what to believe. I recently read somewhere that the Conquest glass was outsourced from Meopta (which is in fact in Czech). Now somebody else is claiming it is made in Taiwan...
yea, and then they saide they watched the lenses being ground in the zeiss plant in germany. damn, just just just damn
Typical internet...you never know what to believe. I recently read somewhere that the Conquest glass was outsourced from Meopta (which is in fact in Czech). Now somebody else is claiming it is made in Taiwan...
yea, and then they saide they watched the lenses being ground in the zeiss plant in germany. damn, just just just damn
Originally Posted by Reloader7RM
I just like the ones that have good glass and repeatable turrets.
What I said about Conquest scopes in my original post is that Zeiss only makes the erector tube and it's lenses in Germany. The larger lenses are made in the Czech Republic. (This is from information I got directly from the U.S. offices of Zeiss, from the head guy.)
Somebody objected to that--and then said they had seen the erector tube and lenses being made in Germany. I recently posted a question asking how that differed from my answer, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.
Optics manufacturing went world-wide long ago, just like any other sort of manufacturing, from cars to televisions. Every company buys at least some components from another specialized company, whether screws or lenses.
I don't know of a single optics company that makes everything under one roof. Some companies may grind and coat their own lenses, but they don't make the glass itself.
This is true. Whether its optics or airplanes, we'd be hardpressed to find all components manufactured and assembled in a single country. US-assembled jet engines, avionics and airplanes may be branded "made in the USA", but many of their individual components/sub-assemblies are manufactured in countries that would make an American/European product advocate's skin crawl.
Same goes for T-bones and toothpaste. At least some of the materials used in those products (fertilizer, feed, antibiotics, etc. in the case of the steak) are OFTEN (not always) made in countries some folks consider uncouth, unclean, unqualified, unethical, unamerican, etc.
I don't give a damn where my scopes are made. So long as I can see through the SOB till the end of legal shooting time and my bullets consistently hit where the crosshairs intersect I'm happy.
I thought you had to have government clearance to get in the Zeiss plant in Germany? WildAlaska must have some friends in high places.
Couldnt get into certain areas of the plant...but had a nice tour and the folks there are nice people.
So let me repeat...based on what I was told and saw at Zeiss plant. the tubes and erector assemblies for all Zeiss scopes are all made right there. The lenses (ie ocular and onbjective) were being made and ground there. The boxes of raw glass I saw were labeled as being made in Taiwan, which I understand is the source of much of the raw glass used in the optic industry.
Conquest glass and Diavari glass is the same but for coatings. Coatings is where the cost is anyway
Glass is glass, it could be made in peru as long as it is of the correct formulation. Its the grinding and the coating that set scopes apart from each other.
WildihopethatclearsthisupAlaska ��2002-2011
By the way, if you really want to get some hackles running, lets talk about how the Euro rail tubes are stronger than the US non railed tubes
Thanks for the additional info. Evidently things have changed a little since I was provided the information.
Actually, it doesn't surprise me that Zeiss now has the time and capacity to provide the bigger lenses and tubes for the Conquest, since the downturn in the economy.
Though it is also interesting that they decided to have their latest spotting scope made in Japan to their specs.
I bet that was a fun trip. I have had the pleasure of touring a few different plants over the years. And every time I was treated very nice. I would have enjoyed a trip through the Zeiss plant. Great story. Tom.
I bet that was a fun trip. I have had the pleasure of touring a few different plants over the years. And every time I was treated very nice. I would have enjoyed a trip through the Zeiss plant. Great story. Tom.
It was run by Blaser and Zeiss, so I got to tour both plants, plus I took the chance to grab a few extra days and party in germany and tour the Verdun battlefield in France.
I love traveling...so far I have England, France, Germany, Russia, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, Columbia, Mexico, Venezuela, Bermuda and Belize on my have seen list.
Glass is glass, it could be made in peru as long as it is of the correct formulation. Its the grinding and the coating that set scopes apart from each other.
WildihopethatclearsthisupAlaska ��2002-2011
Im not ready to believe this yet. I read somewhere from one of the diehard birdwatching guys that there are several different grades of ED glass alone. I'll see if I can find the link.
What about someone like SWFA? They are specing out a scope and having it made like they want with their name on it. I have quickly become a fan of theirs and find their SS 3x9 to be a fabulous scope for a FFP with a mil reticle and adjustments for under $600.
I just got one of their SS 5x20 with the HD glass and it is simply unbelievable. I have had it side by side with nightforce and SB glass and my eyes cannot see the difference. No way they could have got that scope to market at $1000 if a middle man or distributor was involved.
Additional info: I got the 5x20 on a group buy/intro deal, full retail is $1500.
The 3x9 has been great, I run it on a Tikka T3 in .270 and it has never been an issue. Even crawling the scope in prone or goofy positions it has not bitten me at all. YMMV with a heavy kicker...
If I wanted a full 3x9 on my .35 Whelen the eye relief would not be an issue and I have never found myself thinking I needed more.
Sorry for the slight hijack. Was drying firing so I had it handy. The eye relief is enough that I can easily run the bolt all the way without smacking myself. Eye relief on the 5x20 is similar but I just had shoulder surgery and I cannot lift the pig that it rides on.
I understand the SS scopes to be made by bushnell, or in the same factory that makes some bushnell stuff. If it's made to the Elite specs it should be good.
Couldnt get into certain areas of the plant...but had a nice tour and the folks there are nice people.
So let me repeat...based on what I was told and saw at Zeiss plant. the tubes and erector assemblies for all Zeiss scopes are all made right there. The lenses (ie ocular and onbjective) were being made and ground there. The boxes of raw glass I saw were labeled as being made in Taiwan, which I understand is the source of much of the raw glass used in the optic industry.
Conquest glass and Diavari glass is the same but for coatings. Coatings is where the cost is anyway
Glass is glass, it could be made in peru as long as it is of the correct formulation. Its the grinding and the coating that set scopes apart from each other.
This show ran a Zeiss tour that aired less than a year ago and this is obviously raw Schott glass in the Zeiss factory.
When they show a closeup of the Schott glass box it has a "zollgute" sticker on it, which tells me it came from a Schott factory outside Germany.
I understand the SS scopes to be made by bushnell, or in the same factory that makes some bushnell stuff. If it's made to the Elite specs it should be good.
Not made by Bushnell, most claim light optical in Japan. Mine says made in Japan but thats it.
As something even slightly pertinent to the original thread I have Vortex scopes with made in the phil as well as binoculars with a made in china sticker.
This show ran a Zeiss tour that aired less than a year ago and this is obviously raw Schott glass in the Zeiss factory.
When they show a closeup of the Schott glass box it has a "zollgute" sticker on it, which tells me it came from a Schott factory outside Germany.
ie Taiwan
I shot at the range you see in the video, it is in Wetzlar. Nice place. I won a Euro by hitting the deer target in the lungs at 330 yards with a Blaser and open sights.
The Blaser guys and the Zeiss guys were all freaked out about it, guess they dont use open sights for long range out there
Even with all the "optical gack", I still like the old steel tube Weavers. Sometimes old may be inferior to new, but new, at times, lacks class. A new Cooper 22 lr deserves the best glass to match the rifle. An old Remington 511 needs a steel tube Weaver. A proper rifle looney "needs" both.
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