Going to send a 3.5-10x40 and a 2.5-8x36 in to Leupold for turrets.. The 3.5-10 is going on my Montana 7-08 and the 2.5-8 is going on my Model 7 260. I really only ever hope to get out to around 600yds with these two so if would a CDS with a one rotation zero stop be the easiest way to go and would there be any real need for the M1 style? Am also going to get the #4 put in the 3.5-10 after seeing the picture posted of it in the new VX2 and have a post n plex already in the 2.5-8.. Thanks DD

What do you think?:



You think now you'll only ever want to get to 600, then you'll get there and suddenly it's not far enough. Don't pidgeon-hole yourself outta the gate.

To slightly thread jack, anyone ever have issues putting a turret on a VX2? Accuracy, repeatability wise?

I like the CDS, but have to say M1s are growing on me

No

Amen to that.

So yall say M1 on both....

Yes.

For 650 yds a CDS with a zero stop would be lower profile and work well, for 650 and over the M1 would be needed, Have you ever shot out to 650 yards?

Looks to me like you need to do some rifle shopping!

I've owned and used both. Now my Leupy's carry M1's, with not a single CDS knob to be found...

Only ever shot out to 300yds, but a friend is putting together a 600yd range.. Just like the idea of a BDC turret, but was just going to get the CDS in MOA at this time if I went that way.... but adjustability of the M1 and it appears the numbers would be easier to see on the M1....

The CDS comes with an MOA turret that is not one rotatation limited, therefore it will operate to the mechnical limits of the scope - just like an M1.
The CDS and M1 turret will do the same things on similar scopes.
The CDS has a zero stop feature.
The CDS turret is lower profile than the M1.
The M1 does have the "cool look" factor.
I have used both turrets.
Some say the CDS turret can "unknowningly" spin out of adjustment in scabboards and such - I have never encountered this problem.

On a hunting rifle I prefer the CDS due to the lower profile and zero stop. On a long range or similiar rig I prefer the M1 or Target turrets.

YMMV

Don't over look the target turrets from Leupold. I personally prefer them over the M1 but thats just me.

All good points but I would not reccomend using a CDS without a zero stop on could lose his zero if not careful!

Spot on. In one day I went from shooting out 400 yards to 425 then to 700. Just by twisting a m1.

My experience was similar. I had an M-1 on 1 rifle and several B&C reticles. I got the B&C stuff sorted out in about an hour then those rifles sat while I fiddled with the M-1 topped rifle. It took me about 30min to realize that the B&C had buggered me outta the gate. They were all gone within 6mo.

A turret, a good drop chart, and a notation regarding duplex subtension has taught me way more than any extra hash-marks or custom dial ever could.

I guess I've been fortunate to be so late to the game. I've been able to read where guys like you have tried both and went with m1's. So I've been m1 from the start. Except for a couple I've bought used that had target turrets already on. My wife does use a 6x42 lrd on her 250AI. I/we know she's not gonna need more on that set up. If we're wrong it too will get changed asap

Nothing that $90 and 2wks can't fix should the need arise.

Rest assured it is not just you.

The standard target turret is far ahead of either option.

Yep except for the two week part. They kinda busy right now. I've had 3 scopes there for going on two weeks. Then it's another week back here to tn. No biggie though. Except I gotta new 6.5-284 I'm wantin to air out...grin

Curious what it is that y'all like better? I've got and use both the target and m1 but can't see how target is better. I don't shoot nearly as far as y'all do but I do twist the turret then back to zero? Thanks

I much prefer the M1 to the regular target turrets.

I do too. I mean I don't plan on paying to have mine with target changed to m1 but every time I send one in its for m1's. Just curious about preferring the other. I'd certainly listen to what they have to say....espically someone who has a business dealing in such. I'm very much a rookie at this longer range stuff.

I'm interested in what JB has to say, too, but I'm guessing that part of his motivation comes from the fact that the GB scopes come with Leup target turrets that have custom BDC engraving on them. Just a guess, though. He obviously chose those turrets for a reason when he was spec'ing out GB scopes with Leupold...

Would an M1 ele knob on a VX-1 be a possibility?

CDS for hunting application and M1 for LR paper punching gets my vote.

I've used CDS scopes for the last couple of years for hunting applications and it it just doesn't get any better for the guy that limits himself to the 600-700 yard range or less.

I think you can get a custom BDC for the M1's if I'm not mistaken, I'm guessing that JB like's the fact that the TT can be covered!

A few of the minor downsides to the M1 over a straight target turret.

1. Less area on the turret for engraving.

2. Larger size makes it more prone to accidental adjustment while traveling in pack or scabbard.

3. Larger size makes optic slightly more bulky and optic takes a few more bangs

4. The Shroud tends to hold debris.

5. No way to cover the turret in situations where you want a cover.

Nothing very earth shattering but I can�t find any advantage the M1 has over the Target Turret

Yessir, I believe you're correct, although I've not tried it.

Of course #1 only counts if you use engraved turrets, and #2-3 are subjective because the M1 is wider, but the TT is taller. Numbers 4 and 5 are definitely valid, although I've not had either one cause a problem for me so far.

The advantages to the M1, IMO, are that it's slightly shorter, it is easier to spin with numb hands, and it's quicker and easier to read than the TT.

You're right, none of the differences are earth shattering. It's mostly just a matter of preference.

M1 turrets for me hands down. I do not care for the CDS turret; primarily because its too small. The target turret is fine, and JB is not guessing as to his preferences, but I've not noticed his preferences as advantages before. The M1 is easiest to read & spin; those are the only advantages I really care about in a turret.

Yes

Sweet. I'm gonna do that this summer.

I think the logical conclusion to this thread is that all three turrets work and each has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Dave

Sir you are way off base. The logical conclusion is if anyone disagrees with my choice they are worse than Hitler and deserving of all our scorn.

OK.... now that we have been full circle.. guess this could be the debate that never ends, but thanks for all the great info and thoughts thus far.. DD

Thinking that Burns's turret doesn't actually do anything, he and the guys he hunts with are just really good at guessing holdover

I agree 100%. Here is my 4.5x14x40 LR 30mm tube. Love the low profile. No zero stops.

You have a point there...though in reverse of course.

Just got back 5 4.5x14x40AO's that I had target turrents put on. Target turrents for me.

Just think good editing and Hollywood Special Effects.

I knew that damn coyote was fake

That's funny right there^

Why no zero stops... exspecially on the windage knob?

Might have missed it but am surprised no one mentioned that on a 1" scope tube you only have just so much elevation clicks.

With a 100 yd zero you'll need to shim the rear base if you want to get out past 650 or 700 yards depending on cartridge.

I prefer M1's over the CDS when I have gloves on in cold weather.

SU, on the 3.5-10x40 Vari-X III Tactical I'm using on the 243 right now, I had to stick some Burris Signature Zees on a cheapo Weaver 20 MOA base to have some elevation to play with. Using the 20 and 10 inserts, I've got about 40 Minutes to play with from a 100 yard zero.

I got my custom dials for my 22-250, it goes to 700 and a few clicks left over. The 243AI goes to 750 and a few clicks. I haven't really played with em yet but for a couple of mountain rifles, they should be fine.

I have a few M1's and hate the target turrets, even paid to have them changed to M1's last summer on one scope.

Different strokes...

If the CDS elevation was labeled similar to the windage I'd be much more inclined to roll that way.

If the CDS elevation was labeled similar to the windage I'd be much more inclined to roll that way. [/quote]

Any reason why it can't be set up that way?

I've just never seen it. I suspect a call to Leupold would answer both of our questions.

Isn't there a T2 half-height target turret that looks nice?

Think I seen those on an older 16x, may have been an option in the past, not sure now.

I wish they made an M2 or M3 style/size knob but in either 1/4MOA and/or CDS adjustments...

Their Mark AR series scopes have T2's (1/2 MOA).

I used the offer for the free dial to get this



Right=original Left=new knob

Told them to make it like an M1 knob. All the lines are the same height but at least every whole number is labeled, rather than every three.

Nice!

Yep - gonna have copy that idea and get my next CDS dial ordered today!

Just be ready for them to ask if that's really what you want

Thanks for the tip Chris. I'm asking on my next CDS.

That is nice....I'm gonna copy as well. I'd rather shoot come ups and have them in my caps for different bullets.

That's a great tip, Chris.

On a 2.5-8 it's CDS for me. M1's look goofy on those. I'm ok with being "limited" to ~600 yds on my 2.5-8 equipped rifles.

(ok, dumb question. Does the zero stop physically prevent a guy from dialing past one revolution?)

Yes...

Well thats what I did Jeff, ordered the 3.5-10 with the M1 and the 2.5-8 with the CDS and in MOA marked like chris84 showed. Thought it may fit better on the smaller scope and little Model 7. Just really don't plan on going past 600yds with it.. Plus if I don't like it for $89.99 I can change it out..

Ok, stupid question here. On the M1 like chris posted, what do the numbers stand for?

1= 1 moa? 1/4 inch at 100, yes?
2= 2 moa? 1/4 inch at 200, yes?
and so on?

1=1moa (~1" at 100yds, ~2" at 200yds, . . .)
2=2moa (~2" at 100yds, ~4" at 200yds, . . .)
. . .

first the basics, 1= 1 moa and then what does each of the 3 lines between 1 and 2 equal, 1/4" as in 1/4 inch per click?

If I needed to come up 3 inches, (3 moa) I would dial to #3, yes?

Your example is correct @ 100 yds.

Assuming you are zero'd at 100 yards. If you needed to come up 3":
At 200 yds, come up 1.5 MOA
At 300 yds, come up 1.0
At 400 yds, come up 0.75

Get the idea?

Or think about it like this -

Take how many inches you need to come up, and divide by the # of hundreds of yards. Remember though that MOA is not exactly 1" at 100yds, actually 1.047" if I remember right this early. So not a big deal 'til you start getting out there a bit.

Examples - need to come up 6" at 300yds, 6/3 = 2MOA up; 18" at 400yds, 18/4 = 4.5MOA up.

Make sense?

Was thinking of replacing my scope with a VX-3 CDS, but seeing how prices went back up I might just send in the VXII (suffix V) for a turret. Has the LR duplex, which is good for some loads, but not all and want to spin it when it calls for it. Hmmmm...

Nothing is more flexible or forgiving than a turret having plain-Jane MOA or Mil nomenclature.

Well contacted Leupold about a CDS, $90 to have it installed plus another $60 if I want a custom dial with my ballistic info, for $150 total. No thanks, might as well just sell this scope and buy a new VX-3 CDS and get 2 free custom dials made.

Or I can do an M1 for $60. I'm liking option #2

I thought an M1 turret was 90 bucks?

On their website, under custom shop, it shows CDS being $90 and M1 being $60.

How high is the M1? One inch? More, less?

If you have a scope that doesn't already have a turret, Leupold will charge you like 90 bones for an M1... the custom shop is a different deal I think.

M1 would be my first choice, anyways.

M1 is $90. Just sent two scopes in to have them put on and that's what they charged me. Well, $89.95 or $89.99 actually...

Yep M1's and CDS are both $89.99 each and a reticle is $59.99..

Are there any lightweight options for a Kimber 84L for a 20moa base to be able to spin the elevation turret a little more? I've only seen the one-piece picatinny style.

Burris Sig rings with offset inserts, maybe?

+1 on the Sigs... What a great little thing to be able to do. Tremendous grip with the inserts to boot.

Thanks, I'll take a look

If only one could have Talley's or similar with eccentric live centers all would be right with the world. A "free" 15-20MOA sans stress, a rail, and/or ring marks would easily be worth $100/set.

Yup. I'm often debating between Burris Sig rings or Talley LW's. I wish Talley would make the LW's with synthetic inserts. Like you say, that would completely eliminate the need that some guys feel to lap their rings, line the rings with electrical tape to prevent ring marks, and would also give the advantage of adding some elevation (which would be variable, depending on which inserts you use, and what the ring spacing is like) without having to go with a heavy 20MOA rail/ring setup.

Not sure if they make one for Kimbers but Dednutz makes one for 700's. I use one and think it's the best thing going if your wanting light weight.

Scope is on its way, decided on the CDS for this rifle for its low profile and already having the LR duplex. Just standard dial, not custom with load info. For an upcoming rifle I have in mind I'll go M1.

Less than two weeks from sending it out to getting it back. That's quick.

Yep...got both of mine back last week, one with the CDS and the other with the M1 and a new German #4 reticle...quick!

Tag

Leupold Dual Dovetail Bases
used with
Burris Dual Dovetail Signature Rings

tag again.

I wonder why Burris does not make DD bases for their DD signature rings?

Just got my VX-3 3.5-10 scope in today, optics planet is still offering $30 off and free shipping on top of the $80 leupold rebate a great deal if you ask me .. anyways still haven't reached a consensus which turret to get CDS custom moa markings and zero stop or M1 for deer / groundhog hunting sportier 6-700 yards probably tops .. any other info that should be rained down on me?

I went with the CDS with MOA markings, The CDS came free with the scope so thats the way I went. I also wanted the zero stop. The M1 total cost on this scope woulb be 150.00 if I understood him correctly.

If I ever do get one particular load/bullet that I want an actual custom CDS dial made up with yardage markings, that would be 60 bucks. Done deal.This is for a varmit/target rifle.

Myself, I'm not into turret twisting for Big Game, I don't want to worry about things moving without my permission,

Lets be honest, you can aim at Hair with most center-fire rifles out to 350-400 yards, that will cover 99% of all situations.

when you send in a turret to get engraved do you have to send the scope in as well?

You don't send a turret in. They send you a new turret burned to your specs. Loosen the set screws on the CDS or M1 to remove. Reverse steps to install custom dial.

Tag.

I'll see your tag and raise you a double tag.

lotta tagging going on round here...

Kimber7man, checkmate.

Bump

Tagging the bump