Looking into buying a first set of better binos, solely for ark-filling expeditions. I've gotten a few suggestions from a very good source, and his were the Leupy Mojave 10x42 and some of the Nikon Monarch line.

Last year, I borrowed a set of 8x28 Vipers and really liked them, super useful and lightweight. I'm looking at Doug's selection of Vortex stuff, and the 10x32 or 10x28 seems like it'd just be more of a good thing. I'd like to hear what you guys think about a solid set of lightweight, tough, utilitarian binocs, and try to keep it within 300-400 bones.

FWIW, I like my binos to have larger objectives than those you listed. Way better as O'dark-thirty approaches. The 40 or 42mm obj in 8X or 10X are pretty universal and IMO fit your description.

I'm using a set of Pentax DCF WP (I think they are discontinued, but a newer model exists) that fit your budget and like them alot. However, I got to try a pair of Theron binos for a week and felt that they were much better! They still fit your budget.

http://www.theronoptics.com/Home_Page.html

They will be my next bino purchase.

I tend to agree with pointer in terms of the objective diameter. At the very least I would opt for a 32-36 mm objective especially considering your intended application and the possibility of lower light usage. A 42 mm objective model would be even better if you are going to stick with 10x.

The Theron lineup of binoculars are very good for the price. I have owned/tried each of them and I think they perform very highly for their respective price points.

If you like the size/compact nature of the 28 and 32 mm sizes but want to go with a full sized binocular then you may consider one of the shorter full-size models. The first one that pops into my head is the Zen Ray ZRS HD. Price is around $220 the last time I checked. Fully multicoated with dielectric coatings on the prisms. It is shorter than 95% of the other 42 mm offerings out there.

The Swift Reliant 8x42 would be another short model to consider. It is probably the shortest phase coated 42 mm that I have experience with.

Lastly if you want a 10x32 with very good performance for the price then also consider the Sightron SII Blue Sky. The 8x32 version has been rated very highly. A few folks have purchased the 10x32 version and have found it to perform equally good especially considering the price point (under $200). Very lightweight and ergonomics plus the image quality is excellent.

So the Therons aren't a gimmick? The 10x42 Wapitis seem like a nice option...

Anyone used the Zeiss Conquest 10x25 Compact LTs?

No exit pupils smaller than 4mm for me.

Tanner-this is just me but I would not go to a small set like a 10x28 or something like that as my go to. They have their place but a go to isn't it for me.

I wouldn't even go to a 10x30 or 10x32. If I went 10 I'd want to be in the 40-42 mil range.

I would go 8x32 or 8x30 and I bought my wife a set of 9x36 Vortex Diamondbacks last year that she loves. Fact is the D house now has 3 sets of Vortex optics and we really like them. (we also have some 12x50 and a pair of 10x28).

For a light bin, I'd go with a 6x30 Yo for about 100 bones and then you could still buy a nice set of Vortex in something like a 9x36 or 10x42 from Doug.

Just a thunk.

Dober

It's not just you.

Tanner PM sent. but I would add that I would likely look at something in the 7x35 to a 8x42 range. Better field of view, larger exit pupil for more light and a more comfortable extended viewing experience. Some good suggestions already made. IMO- shoot for 5mm exit or better.

Hmmm, wonder if a set of Vortex 10x42s from Doug would be just the ticket? Now I've just got to pick the flavor of V-tex I want...

Also, what does everyone think of the Bushy Elite 8x43?

Sent you a PM.

The field of view is good, but I've had limited luck with Bushnell binos, I think power is good for your needs, just not the brand.

2 cents...

If you're not in a hurry I'd get my hands on a pair of the new Zen Ray Prime's before I bought anything.

If I were in the market for an 8x32'ish binocular, I'd be all over that Nikon LX 8x32 Doug has for $369.00. Great binos at a fantastic price!

GW's right on the money with this one.

Bingola.
Lots of good advice/options in this thread.

Since your a beginner almost anything is better than nothing. If your eyesight is good the high magnification optics are nothing but a bother when searching.

What with the tiny budget you have just get some 6X to 8X's for now and save up for something good. I have had lots of binocs for hunting and on the boat.

Search here for what we said about switch power binocs but first you need money.

Tanner,

Here's a few random thoughts on binos.

I'd also go for bigger objective lenses too on 8 and 10x's.

The 6x30 Yotes are easy to tote and surprisingly sharp and useful. For the money, they're great.

You asked about the Vortex 10x42's. One of my uncle's has a pair and I've used them a little. They are nice. They're really close to the so-called "alphas."

I think a lot of people overdo it on the magnification. I'd recommend going to a store with a selection and finding the maximum magnification you can hand hold comfortably, and then taking a step down in magnification. Just because you can handhold it in the store for a few seconds, doesn't mean it's the right bino for you. If you're on the side of a mountain being rocked by wind and/or cold and/or hungry, holding glass steady becomes more difficult.

I have some LNIB Leupold Gold Ring HD 10x42's that hang with alpha's....and I'm thinking of selling them....grins.

Super clean used is another good way to roll, especially with Leupold's service. Good luck.

I agree about Doug's demo Nikon 8x32s. Original price was close to $1000 new if I am not mistaken.

Heck, the last one I saw was for sale at $1100 or $1200. And I thought I got a real deal at $650.
I seldom carry anything more than the 6X30 stuff or that 8X32. E

I'm onboard with the $369 Venturer LX 8x32's from doug.

I'm not seeing them on the Demo list...

BTW, I've owned and used both the 8X20 and 10X25 Zeiss. Both were super sharp. But the trouble was trying to use them in the field. They are so light, their fine optical qualities can't be appreciated. Heck, especially at the longer ranges, I can do better with a 6X30 Yosemite. The exception is for the guy packing a tripod or some other form of rest.
Frankly, if I'm going to use a tripod, I might as well use a spotting scope.
I've never been impressed with the Nikon Monarchs. I do understand that the newest, which are out of your price range, are much better. But the cheaper models have not improved.
The only thing I can say about the Leupold Mojave is that they are a little better than the cheaper Monarch. But that isn't saying much.
I've got a Pentax SP in 8X43 which can sometimes be found that cheap. Head and shoulders above the Monarchs that I've tried out and Leupold Mojave. E

Those GR HD's are fantastic too. Really, really great optics and very well built.

What if I could find a phase corrected set of Zeiss Classics, 10x40? Good option, assuming I could find a good deal?

Yes, go for it, I have not tried those, but they have a cult following, and they are very good optically. With good care, they would hold their value better than many binoculars.

Hi Tanner, you have to call only. Here is the list from the classifieds.


Nikon Sports Optics Super Blowout Sale

We just got in a nice sized shipment from Nikon of demos, samples, refurbs, etc. These are all optically and functionally as new. I have not opened all the cartons or each individual product as that would take forever, however, going off of past experiance these come with owners manual, caps, strap and cases. Please feel free to call Doug or Neil @ 212-753-5128 with any questions or to place an order (as these deals will not be on our web site).
We have multiples of most of these so please pass the word

#7382 Nikon Superior E 12x50 Binocular @ $499.99

#8212 Nikon Stableyes VR 12X32 Binocular @ $449.99

#7436 Nikon 8X32 Venturer LX Binocular $369.99

#7535 Nikon Premier 8X42 BBinocular @ $549.99

#7219 Nikon 12X50 Action VII Binocular @ $59.99

#7218 Nikon 10X50 Action VII Binocular @ $49.99

#7216 Nikon 8X40 Action VII Binocular @ $49.99

#7265 Nikon Action 10-22X50 ZOOM Binocular $69.99

#7563 Nikon EDG 8X32 Bijnocular @ $674.99

#8239 Nikon 10X42 Trailblazer Binocular @ $89.99

#8237 Nikon 8X36 SHE Safari Series Binocular @ $69.99

#7351 Nikon Sky & Earth 15-45x60 Spotting Scope with Case (with the 15-45x zoom eyepiece) @ $199.99

#6892 Nikon 16-48X60 SPOTTER XL II Spotting Scope Outfit @ $299.99 with 16-48x zoom eyepiece, Case and Tripod

We have priced these to move so if you're interested please let us know. To see our web site please click here
Thanks for all your support, it is greatly appreciated.

BTW, We are now an authorized dealer for Meopta Sports Optics as well as Old Harbor Outdoor Gear
_________________________
Doug @ Camera Land

[email protected]
http://www.cameralandny.com
212-753-5128

Thanks for the support.

Thanks Doug.

Those Zeiss classics are really good, but there is much better stuff nowadays for the same or less money.

#7382 Nikon Superior E 12x50 Binocular @ $499.99

Are these the same as the Premier SE's?

I spent a lot of time looking at binos about 2 years ago and personally I think the best buys are the 6x30 Yose (eye cups are not very good, but the price is great) and the ED-series from Zen-Ray. I have the 7x36 ED2 and ran them head-to-head against the 8x30 SLC. The SLC went back to the store for a refund, hard to believe but its true.

I have a Swaro LRF and still compare the ED2 to the Swaro eyepiece. There's several things that the Zens do better, for my eye(s) at least, and nothing that the Swaro did better. But, I have to say that the Swaro warranty is very good and so aren't the lense coatings and build quality. I know the Zen Ray warranty is good, but I don't know how they will hold up over time.

Seems to be the question with every brand made in China. Think I'll pass on them all

I'm leery of products made anywhere these days. Country of origin doesn't really mean much unless you do your homework. Parts get sourced from all over the world, and final assembly could be done under poor conditions even in the US.

My most recent customer service debacle came from Leupold, which is literally right down the road from my house. Got the run around and finally an apology from management. Problem solved, but I have more faith in Vortex and Zen Ray customer service. There's certain products that Leupold makes that I think are better than those other two companies though. Plus, I like to support local companies but I'm not a Leupo fanatic for either.

Some Chinese products are better made than US made products. Case in point, the eye cups on the Leupold 6x30 suck compared the Zen Rays, although Leupold probably sources their parts from China. But many people associate "Leupold" with US made stuff.

What I have noticed in general is that Taiwan is making pretty good stuff lately. They can't compete with China for lowest bid, but their technology has improved. Its seems that vendors using Taiwan want a high qaulity product and that country provides it.

I do deal with crappy Chinese products on a daily business for my work. Sometimes its shameful, but these are limited examples. The Zen Ray binos show how dang good they can be, if given the right direction and supervision.

If your refering to the 6x30 yosemite binos they are made in China now as is most of the Leupold bino line.

Just curious how many different manufactures Zen has used in China and why

Country of origin is the first thing I look at when looking at any new optics

That's true of the green ring line, not the gold ring line of binos

I don't know that those GR's (bino's) are made in the USA either. Not that long ago, there were pics of GR bino's and spotters on Light Optical Work's website.

Swaro 8x30 SLC's sure don't suck.

I wouldn't get stuck on buying new, with what your budget can get you in used optics. Don't drink or chew for a month, eat PB&J sandwiches, stretch your budget another hundred bucks and start looking at some real good used Swaro, Leica or Zeiss optics, they are out there and a good hunter will find them...

Jeff, I'm not going to sell any Kidneys so Swaros are out.

Shrap, used Zeiss Classics over used Bushnell Elite 8x43s? Something about the Classics makes me really want to find some.

One of the best deals out there if you look hard enough. Like I said, a good hunter doesn't shoot from the road...

10-4, I'll get at least 5 yds off the road... grin

Lots of good suggestions here. I would add a vote for Hawke Frontier ED.

I strongly recommend you try a bino before you buy. I find that some eyepieces fit my head while others don't. A bino that natuarlly finds the sweet spot against your brow and nose is a joy to use. One that you constantly have to microposition to get a clear view simultaneously through both sides is a pain for prolonged viewing. This is a very individual "fit" issue that goes beyond the typical notions of ergonomics.

I'm running an older pair of Bushnell Legends 10x42. I like them and they do the job for me quite well. They are kinda heavy though.

And I don't know if they fixed the lens cover issues yet either for the objective lenses. Add one more minus to them.

[quote=338rcm
Just curious how many different manufactures Zen has used in China and why

[/quote]

Zen Ray uses one factory for the Vista and ZRS HD, and used to use one other for the ZEN ED series. They left that one for business expansion reasons. They now have their own OEM facility and will likely eventually shift everything there. The new facility is currently doing the ED 3 and the new Prime HD. I have no solid reason for this, but it would not seem a stretch to think they have some stuff in the works to build some things for other places now that they have that ability. They use the Vista and ZRS source because they build things to the ZR specs and are easy enough for ZR to deal with.

I maybe should add that Zen Ray originally started off with the Vista line made in Japan. You won't believe this probably but the Japanese nearly broke their back doing just what everybody seems to think is typical of only Chinese sources. Funny thing is they wanted to avoid the made in China syndrome, but had to eventually go there to find a factory that would actually work with them and make what they wantred they way they wanted it made. So just because it says made in Japan does not automatically mean it is worth anything.

I've got news for you. One of the reasons why the Pentax WP binoculars were such a big hit a few years back is that they were actually a hair better than the Zeiss Classics of years gone by. The current upgrade to the older WP's are the SP's.
There are lots of like quality binoculars out there. Some are reported as better by very knowledgable folks.
I happen to own a couple of really good Leicas. The Pentax SP I have is very close to them in image quality.
You don't have to take my word for it. Buy from somebody like Cabela's or Doug at CameralandNY and see for yourself. If you aren't happy, they will take them back and refund your money. E

A few companies have proven that good optics can be made in China and have also mastered quality control there. I need to see evidence that the return rates are low before I will buy a Chinese product. So far Zen-Ray and Hawke are on my short list. As long as we're talking the <$500 price range, the risk seems small to me. If the budget rises to $1,000 or beyond, then I would look elsewhere.

E, how much were you getting the Pentaxes for?

I hear ya.... sort of.

I bought mine over 10 years ago... I had a 2 year old and a 5 year old in the house and things were tight. I put eyes to them, went "awww shee-it!" and put them on layaway. I've never regretted it. They are awesome.

That being said the optics world has changed dramatically in the last decade. My 13x56 Minox are made in China and are damn nice.

Looking forward to hearing what you get; you are getting lots of good advice. I like the Nikon 8x32 advice. In my opinion you'll want TWO 'nocs eventually. A high quality 6x-8x in a compact format, and then something bigger.

The Zeiss Classic 10x40 are a Koolaid thing here at the Campfire and you guys will never guess in a million years who endorsed them. Give ya all a hint to be fair.....Ingram knives, 223 AI, A-Max boolits....

I paid $450 for mine. I've seen them on sale for $350. E

Oh I know about the Koolaid but they were the first bino recommended to me by a guy whom I admire a lot and who has probably killed more massive animals than anyone I've ever met or will meet. So thats kind of where my desire for the Classics comes from.

Not saying that they are junk, only that a certain guy much added to their popularity here at the Campfire, and I'm not a Stick basher by any stretch. I've gotten lots of good advise from him.

I'd buy these before the Z Classics. Not directed at you RD in any form or fashion, but Stick is a loser, a bottom feeding narcissist.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6448658/4

I'm on the same page with you RD, I got what you're sayin.

I'd get those in a heart beat over the Classic's.

Those are a bit more than I can get the C lassics for...

I know that there is lots of disdain for Stick here and he's brought it on himself. All's I'm saying is that I've asked him (granted in PM's) about hiking boots, rain gear, in particular, and I've gotten good advise. I don't ask him questions about stuff that I already have an answer for or just to argue with him and that's what alot of folks here do (not saying you do). Believe it or not, I've seen him ask folks for recommendations over at that As Real as it gets site about 45's, AR's and camera [bleep] too. Is he obnoxious ? Sure. But you can be sure as you're breathing, that he's not telling folks to use something he's never used before himself and you need not look further than this particular forum to see examples of that day in and day out.

What about Promaster 10x42 I have them and like them a lot. Real bright and clear.

Lots of choices Tanner -and you got my pm. If sold on roofs the Zen Ray 7x36 ED for $375 might be a good mix of size, weight, glass, brightness with a nice field of view. Pretty sure when you get one of any of these being discussed. I just really like that size- 7x35 range for an all arounder.

Stick is prone to using something, liking it, then proclaiming it as best for everybody's needs, physique, etc. His Massive Ego prevents him from understanding that what he likes best, isn't necessarily what's best for someone else.

It ain't ever not funny.

That's why I take all info at face value. It's just his opinion, nothing more.

started to chime in - but lets do everyone a favor and keep this about binoculars and not 'Stick'- for Tanners sake.

Do not buy new.


Travis

Jeff_O is well known expert on objects he's never seen in person, much less used one and least of all owned one. Still, his opinions are quite impressive........

I have a set of Vortex Viper HD 8X32's, If I can't see 'it' with them, it's not there to see.

Is 7x36 power enough for scoutin in 200-400 yards range?

Buy once..cry once..
Swarovski!

Yes it is. Tell the truth I doubt most people could tell 7x from 8x if the power was not marked. DOn't sell 7x short. There is a reason the military settled on 7x.

Regarding the 6x30 Yotes. Any consensus on what color tape is best for securing the eyecups?

I use a set of the Zeiss 10x25's and love 'em. They are my go-to bino. The optics are great, considering what they are. True, they get dark earlier than a larger objective will, but up to the end of legal shooting light I get along fine with them. I cover a lot of ground and frequently at high altitudes where every ounce counts. At about 9 oz. they fit my needs nicely.

Here you go...

LMAO!!!!

I ended up going with a great looking pair of Zeiss Classics 10x40 T*P, that came in a GREAT deal from a friend locally. I couldn't be happier, these bins are insanely clear, and I had no idea how compact they are.

Good deal, and glad to see you end up with glass that'll last a lifetime.

You will be happy with that choice. Hope you have animals competing to get in the field of view!

Thanks guys. I'm very happy as well, I can't see ever needing to buy another bino as long as these ones stay healthy

The bird touring company my wife works for endorses Leica. The guides get a new pair every year after turning the old ones in.

Made the mistake of picking a pair of them up a few years ago. Couldn't look at my Minox 8X42's for a week.

Thats a damn good deal shipped.

Good glass friend, but that rifle! You can't be seen carrying that around in the company of Zeiss bino's... better send it to me.
Looks like you are getting a very nice package put together for hunting the big mountains.

I have a pair of Meopta Meostar 10x42 and a pair of Zeiss Victory 8x32 sitting in front of me, also I have a relative that has allowed me to use his 10x Leica....without a doubt the best of the three are the Zeiss Victory 8x32, this has been the overwhelming consensus of some fifteen acquaintances of mine.....and my thirteen year old Daughter to whom they currently belong to.

Now I have to save my bickies for another pair for myself...with any luck I might even get to keep them.

I should be ready to rock, just need a set of Meindls to wear out now!

Hey Tanner, maybe I knew or have forgotten. What do you have for a rifle?

Thanks, nice looking equipment.

HD, that's a Kimber Montana 270WSM.

Tanner..REALLY good choice on quality Binos..my most heavily used piece of equipment...best investment by far.

The rifle......

Thanks Tanner.


ingwe + 10 on that one.

We can't give him too bad of a time...he has youth and beauty on his side....

the little bastid.....

Yeah, that's long gone for me.

Youth, yes. Beauty... Now that's debatable