I am buying another scope, and this time the choice is between the S&B Klassik 3-12x42 and the Leica ER 3.5-14x42

Again, I cannot look at the scopes side by side to compare them as nobody anywhere near me has either.

The S&B is a known - there will be no question about the quality. What about the Leica? It is relatively new to the market. The price is not a factor - the S&B is $50 more.

If you're asking about optical quality, I have tested both scopes on my night-time optical chart and both rated 8, the highest any scopes have tested.

Thanks MD - any news on the durability of the Leica?

No negative reports so far that I've heard. I tested the one sample I've tried on my scope killer, a light .338 Winchester Magnum. It did fine for a couple boxes of ammo, which usually shows up any flaws.

As a matter of fact that .338 (nicknamed Mr. Miserable) broke a supposedly heavy-duty tactical scope within one box of ammo a week or two ago. Over the years it's probably broken at least a dozen scopes within two boxes of ammo.

I've had both. I know only own S&Bs. But only because Leica has been in and out of the scope category in recent years, and if they do it again, the resale value of Leica might falter. And that I realize is sho-nuff, pure-dee speculation. If a few years from know Leica has proven to be committed to the scope category, I'll almost certainly buy Leica scopes and look forward to their quality.

As MD said, optically...take your pick. Either glass will do all that any scope on the market will do, and do it in spades.

Most of my scopes are S&B's but have owed several Leica's. Optically the Leica is equal to the S&B but I have never kept one long enough to find out how durable they are. Believe Mule Deer has the skinny on that above.

I have two Leica scopes - one on a 7mm SAUM and one on a .375 H&H. The one on my .375 H&H has absorbed around 400 rounds of 300 gr. full house loads with no issues or movement at all.

Candidly, I'm absolutely sold on the Leica scopes. They are seriously good glass.

I looked at a Leica for my latest rifle, but could find no good information about accurate calibration and repeatability of their turrets. I chose the NF 2.5-10, but only because S&B didn't have what I wanted with MOA turrets. Love my PMII, but too big for a light weight sporting rifle.

Well, I was going to buy the S&B but, fortunately, I checked the specs with respect to ring spacing and it is too short for my rifle (Steyr-Mannlicher). So I am ordering the Leica ER 3.5-14x42 with both elevation and windage turrets.

I trust JB when he says it is a good scope and good in low light. I'll post a write up on it after it arrives.

who ya buying from? looks like Cabela's having a big sale on Leica.

For $50.00, Hell, even $250.00, why trifle that amount a money on a proven leader in the industry against a newcomer with uncertain rifle scope pedigree? Schmidt and Bender easily by 3 lengths...

I have had 2 Leicas in 3.5-14x42. I still own one with the target turret on it. Best glass I've owned and I've had or have swaro, S&B, Zeiss, NF, Kahles, Leupy, etc. There are really nice. Mines on a .280AI so not a hard kicker but it is doing well.

Schrapnel - There aren't many options for the older model Steyr-Mannlicher. The original Steyr mounts or EAW. Both of those will be $400-$500. Plus I don't think they make extended rings. My Leupold is about 5.4" and it barely fits. The 3-12x50 Klassik is 5.04" so it is not even close. The 42mm would be a tight fit but with the eye relief it would be too far forward for me (as is the Leupold).

However, if anyone has ideas I am all ears, as I haven't placed the order yet.

The rifle is a pre-SBS Steyr-Mannlicher Luxus S.

I am in Canada; the dealer is Wolverine Supplies in Manitoba. I am waiting for the price quote with the elevation/windage turrets, but w/o those it is $1405. The S&B 3-12x50 Klassik is an amazing deal there (imo) at $1499. The 42mm obj one is $1450.

If the S&B won't fit, it really doesn't matter. You obviously need to have a scope that fits. I haven't tried the new Leica scopes, but the originals in the wooden box a few years back, were less than impressive. I would still look at Swarovski, and the Z-3 and Z-5 should work. The Z-6 may be too much, but a 30 mm tube may provide different mounting opportunities.

Schrapnel - I just emailed NECG to see if they have a solution. Thanks, I thought my mind was made up!

The old scopes were not nearly as nice as the new ones. They were made by Leupold and branded Leica.

Leica-polds.

The newer ones I've seen have nothing in common with the older ones. Excellent glass, but I can't vouch for the tracking as I was t allowed to twist knobs.

JM

I expect the Leica will be top quality glass, it would not be a Leica product if it is not... but without totally accurate and repeatable tracking it's just another expensive aluminum tube with high dollar glass. I was very impressed with the value of my Zeiss Conquests and would use one of those again, at a fraction of the cost, if the Leica doesn't have turret quality to match NF and S&B.

About the tracking, John Barsness wrote:

I have a Leica. Swarvo Z6, S&B, and Zeiss Victory. They are all great. But to me the Leica has too fine of X-hairs. Word to the wise also if you do buy a Leica send in your warranty card and keep a record. They gave me a hard time when I sent in my bino's about it when I did fill it out. I had to call Doug at Cameraland to go back and fax them my receipt. I sold my binos and went to swarvo's just because of the customer service. Out of all my scope I really like the Z6 better than all. I just love their plex cross hairs seem just right. Anyone want to buy a Leica scope??????

I have a couple of the newer leicas with elevation turrets. They are repeatable and the glass is great. I do not think I have used either to get past 1100 yards but I think they are great little optics. I like the compact size.

Arac and EddyBo offer some encouraging experiences here. I will watch the reviews on these scopes as they become available. For now, I am very happy with the 2.5-10 Nightforce I am using on my elk rifle. I've done a fair bit of shooting with it this summer, and now am doing some marmot hunting. Resolution, clarity, contrast, etc, has proved to be excellent, or at least "good enough" for kill shots out to 600 yards on these little critters.

If I can't kill it with a Leupold, Conquest, or Elite, I need to Indian closer. That's just me.

I do love the view and reticles on many of the Alpha models, S&B and NF, etc.

If a scope is reliable and repeatable it's a good aiming device for me. Given the choice for one or the other, I'd opt to pay my big $$$ on Alpha Bino's......currently running Katmai 6x for what I do, and Yosemites I keep around for loaners.

I'd expect Leica to not put out a product until thoroughly tested to their standards. New are all made in house per Shot show when introduced. I'd expect them to be durable, but between the two, S&B has been around a long time in scopes, and that would weigh in for me.

I tried to find a Leica with the target turrets and nobody had them in stock and I was told they are discontinued. The S&B was really appealing, but I wanted the 50mm obj lens much more than the 42mm; as I mentioned the former would not fit on my rifle.

So I ended up buying none of the above. I never really thought of the VX6, but noticed JB said the low light performance was very good. After taking a boo at the VX6 side by side with the Z6, I felt it was an option I should consider. The local gun shop then gave me a great price on the VX6 so it came home with me.

I have to say it looks really good. I checked it out in very low light in my back yard and it did well. I'll mount it after my deer hunting trip and post a review.

Curious, what made you decide on the choices you have for models, vs. a mid priced scope?

The first place i looked, Midway USA has the Leica with TT.

So do several other places. Where did you look?

fwiw,
An observation or two...

1. Leica is new at manufacturing their own scopes. Schmidt Bender has 50 years plus of experience...

2. I have been a Leicaphile in years past. Two Ultravids, two trinovids, an APO 77mm Televid, and various range finders. ALL bought under Leica's former PASSPORT Warranty Service. Had an Ultravid that went tits up and they told me 4-6 months on the fix. Went through Doug and they made it two weeks...

3. THEY ACTIVELY tried to remove my PASSPORT Warranty Support by issuing new cards. I had to come close to pulling fingernails to get them reissued.

Leica no longer offers Lifetime Warranties. They have a 10 year warranty... Not getting it done in my book for that kind of investment. Further I was UNIMPRESSED with Leica USA. Great product with so so support...

I've bought my last Leica Product.

fwiw & imho.

Regards, Matt.

Are they able to export scopes to Canada?

Good to see you around Matt.


dave

Dittos

I own a Leica 3.5-14 with the #1 (post) reticle. Excellent low light scope with the bold post. Optically amazing. Has held up to around 100 rounds of 7STW on a pretty lightweight Rem 700.

The Leica and my Z5 3.5-18 Swaro w/ the plex reticle are optically indistinguishable, but I like the Swaro's plex a little better for all-around elk hunting.

I've only seen the S&B in stores, I'm sure its excellent.

I contacted two well known shops here in Canada. They didn't have them in stock and so they called the importer, who told them the TT versions are discontinued and have none available.




What do you mean by mid priced scopes? Like a Bushnell Elite or something like that? The Zeiss Conquest costs only a little less than what I paid for the VX-6.

In Europe all the big Optics players have gone to a 10 year warranty due apparently to excessive European red tape concerning what constitutes a Life Time Warranty.

When I spoke to a Swaro rep a couple of years back about the change, his reply was along the lines of: "Don't worry, we will carry on as before, but we can no longer put in writing"

From your statement, it looks like Leica have extended this policy "across the board" which I suspect will be a marketing disaster in the UK.

As far as I am aware, of the major European optics company's, Meopta now offers the longest warranty in Europe and that is 15 years, which it has been for as long as I remember.

That said, Falcon in the UK are offering a Limited Lifetime Warranty, but I have not read the fine print to see exactly what this entails..

Regards,

Peter

I own both the Leica is great but you can look into your soul with the S&B

Send the Leica in for service like a friend has back in August and he still has not recieved it.

Schmidt is out of this world good