I am considering a new scope. I want near top quality class. I can't afford 2-3k for Zeiss or S&B so want something under 1k.

I have read some reviews about the Super Slams and they sound impressive. I have always been a Leupold man, but just your plain jane VX-II from the 80's.

How does the Super Slam or Grand Slam compare to the VX-3? What other scopes would you recommend I take a look at?

The rifle will in all liklihood be a .243, 7mm-08 or 260. I have never owned a variable over 9 power so this one will be a 4-12 or 4-16 just becuase I would like to have that capability.

What would you look at beside the Weavers?

Dan

You can get a Zeiss HD5 and a Swarovski Z3 for under $1K at Cameraland.

I would jump on one of these.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/zeiss.pl?page=521490

I'd take Conquest over any Weaver or VX3

I wouldn't,IMO to step up from a vx3 i'd be looking @ a Swarovski or s&b

Which models in a 4X-12X or 4X-16X for under $1000? In that range the Conquest is hard to beat.

For roughly $20-30 more i'll take this each and every time:http://www.cameralandny.com/optics2/leupold.pl?page=leupold_vx-3_4-14x40

Yep!

The conquest WAS a great scope but no longer made, the lower end Swarovski has return to zero issues, never seen a S&B in this price range.....Just go with a VX3 the 4.5x14 is the best scope in the price range

Actually i'm wrong on the price ,the leupold is about $100 cheaper than the zeiss. I looked at a demo price on the zeiss. Also I didn't mean you can get a zawro or s&b for the price of a conquest, sorry if that got confusing. I was referring to a leupold .

I have owned a number of Weaver Super Slams and Grand Slams.....the SS have superb glass and light gathering.....they will hang with the best... They are just a bit heavy. The old Grandslam was a sleeper.... Very good glass, just a bit shy on eye relief. Very good scopes. Leupold makes a fine product, but I would not say they are optically as good as some...just my opinion. The newest from Leupold are better , but they offer superb service. Weaver changed hands 2-3 times in the last 10-15 years....that does not help dealer support etc., but the product was always pretty decent. I think both companies are making fine products. I think Weaver just revamped the Grandslam.....should be pretty nice. Goodshot

For a $1000, you could get a Leupie VX-6 series 2-12x42. That would be the way to go. If necessary, buy it used.

What is the difference between the VX-6 and the VX-3?

I have a Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 and a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x40 Long Range. Both were produced within the past 18 months, but the Leupy is roughly a year newer. For the purpose of this comparison, the Tactical may be thought of as Super Slam glass in a stronger/thicker/heavier tube with much more adjustment range.

The Leupold has ~15 minutes (also ~15%) more adjustment range than the Tactical. The Super Slam doesn't have anywhere near as much adjustment (only 40 - 50% of what the Tactical has, IIRC)

The Weaver has noticeably more 'pop' to the image than the Leupy; it appears distinctly brighter. It also has more CA, but most who've looked through it have to be looking for it in order for it to be noticeable/distracting.

In super-low light (well past legal shooting light; more like astronomical twilight or quarter-moon light), the Weaver is significantly brighter/better and offers significantly better detail resolution on distant objects such as trees, cliffs, etc. It is better regardless whether you match magnification, exit pupil, or anything else. I expect the larger objective is responsible for at least some portion of this. I do not know whether optical quality is or is not also a significant factor.

The Weaver is dead reliable in its adjustments and return to zero. I have not tested the Leupold as thoroughly, but it has been equal in performance thus far.

The Tactical has more-consistent eye relief at a constant 4", but when the scopes are set up properly this is a non-issue. The Leupy has more eye relief for much of its magnification range. I find both scopes easy to get behind, but I find the Leupy easier. The difference is most noticeable at max mag.

I have the Weaver on my competition gun because it's FFP and has a useful reticle for that purpose. I have the Leupy on my '#1' hunting rifle. Both are subjected to rough service in different ways.

Both have lifetime warranties, but IF I ever have to use the warranty on either one, I like the way Leupold works much better. I also appreciate being able to talk to Leupy. I have not been able to raise Weaver on the phone since ATK 'consolidated' a bunch of support people. That was a LARGE mistake by ATK, in terms of my desire to deal with them to an increasing degree in the future.

I would buy either scope again, provided I got the right price. I've looked at & through some super-nice and super-expensive scopes on the competition guns in the long-range precision rifle club I shoot with. I'm satisfied with these two scopes vs. the prices I paid. I paid more for the Weaver, and I think I got a bit more in return. They're definitely different scopes, though. More-expensive scopes do not offer _me_ enough more to justify the required expenditure. I offer this last bit merely for context in evaluating my comments.

For a hunting rifle, I'd buy another Leupy. For a competition rifle, I'd need a different Leupy, and given their competition line's prices I'd likely buy another Weaver Tactical.

If I were to choose between this Leupy and the Super Slam version of the Weaver, that would be tough. They're both excellent scopes, but they're also distinctly different. Hopefully I've highlighted some areas that'll help you choose, based on what _you_ are looking for.

I have some Weavers, I have some Leupolds...BOTH great scopes IMO. The Super Slam is every bit the scope the vx-3 is. From what I've noticed the Super Slam seems sharper and the VX-3 a touch brighter. Both VERY close as far as image goes. The VX-3 is also much lighter if that matters to you, however the Super Slam has a 5x erector and side focus, two very different designs, which is better? Depends on what you want really hard to go wrong with either...Natchez has the best price on the Super Slam by a big margin. I'd also take a long hard look at the Meopta Meopro...Doug has pretty good prices on them and they are some pretty nice scopes in that same price range...

Now I see that ATK bought out Bushnell....so now we have Bushnell and Weaver under the same parent co. That will be interesting......they also bought Savage Arms......that's a bunch of brands to manage. Should be interesting to say the least. Sure seems like the sign of the times, I'm not sure it's a good thing only time will tell. Goodshot

3

That was helpful....! I'm sure we all learned from that post!

OK so iambrb is a smarta$$. I'll take a smarta$$ any day over a dumba$$.

Hard to beat a VX3 3.5-10x40 with an M1 on it. New for around $550 from custom shop. I looked at the VX6 and was just not impressed really for the extra money.

With the VX-6, you get top quality optical performance. Barsnes tested one at an 8 on his resolution and low light test scale. That matches the very best from S&B, Zeiss, etc.
With a VX-3, you would get a 7.
With both scopes, you get super hard coatings, something Zeiss and S&B don't have.
With the VX-3, you get the same dual spring adjustments that the Leupold Mk. 4 tactical scopes have. With the VX-6, they add a pop up feature.
Both scopes also feature Leupold's Krpton/Argon gas fill which should work better than the traditional nitrogen fill. E

I'm pleased as punch on my Nitrex models......

Thanks

The VX-6 is a "series" upgrade from the VX-3. It's Leupie's best attempt right now, and is very good.

Some observations. First, compare 40mm to 40mm or the comparison is just silly. In answer to your original post The SuperSlam is terrific but heavy. I think Weavers have some of the best adjustments going- without having Swaro or S & B experience. The only I may like better are Meopta. Super precise and sharp feeling clicks. All are very bright scopes and rugged as heck. The new crop out there are just awesome- although I thnik Zeiss took a step backwards.

I have been fixed 6x guy for years (having multiple 6x from many companies) but decided on a variable for my latest. Typically went Meopta first but compared the 3x9 Meopro to the VX3 and chose the Leupold. Prettier scope, lighter, a bit smaller overall, and I wanted to try out the B and C reticle. I tested in the field side by side against my M8 6x42 and the VX 3 was brighter, sharper, and had better color. I am amazed how late I can use it - and this coming from a 6x fan.

Meopta, Weaver or VX3- all super choices. For me it came down to reticle choice and weight. The new VX3 adjustment design is much better than the old- but not quite as crisp as Meopta or Weaver, although it seems more repeatable than past Leupolds I have had. Oh, mine came with the Alumina screw on lens covers for free. Great when storing long term. It also came with a nifty neoprene dust cover than I really like.

I have had a bunch of leupolds and only 3 super slams. I did not think the SS were lacking anything.....except for one which caused the POI to wander about MOA to the left if you dialed in about 14 MOA.

I have not visited the SWFA SS scopes in about 8 or 10 years, I am hearing decent acclaims of their newer offerings.

If I were telling a friend what to do I would say get a leupold or conquest and be done.

Ok, you guys have me thinking about Meopta. How are the 1 inch versions? I really want low light ability and positive adjustments.

1k really opens up your choices on some pretty darn decent glass. Meopta, Zeiss HD5, Swaro Z3, V6. Shop around a bit and all can be had at decent prices. You can get into much more scope than a VX3 with that budget.

If your budget was down in the 600ish range, I'd be searching the web for the Conquest 4.5-14x44. IMO it can't be touched at it's price point.

I've owned them all. The HD5 is very hard to beat for under a grand. It betters the vx3 by a large margin, but it should at nearly twice the cost. The swaro is better optically than anything under a grand. I don't spin knobs so I cant speak for the return to zero. Mine works fantastic and I couldn't be happier. The conquest is a very good scope, equal to the vx3 to my eyes. I had an hd5 and a swaro side by side and I ended up keeping the swaro. It extended light by a good 15 minutes over the zeiss. Both were very crisp and clear.

The meoptas are nice, but are very heavy. Their glass is really good. Decent buy if you're ok with the weight.

This is flat out wrong. I purchased four Swarovski z5 5-25X52 before I kept one. None, and I mean none, were as clear as my Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50 during daylight and only two were better in low light. Two were not as good as my Bushnell 4200 4-16X40's in low light and two matched the 4200 in low light.

I am not a very happy Swarovski owner, but they are the only company making a high magnification scope about 18 ounces.

I don't agree that the Conquest is better than the VX-3, as someone posted earlier. The Conquest has heavier duplex than the VX-3 and has a larger ocular. The glass is equivalent, IMHO.

My pick of the VX-3 litter is the 3.5-10x40 CDS, as I'm a turret twister and like the FOV.

The VX-6 is a big scope, the glass is better than the VX-3 or Conquest, probably as good as a Z3, which is 1" and a smaller scope.

I have a 6500 2.5-16x40. It's a great scope, gives the Conquests and VX-3's a run for the roses.

DF

I have had multiples of each. Dozens of Weavers and Leupolds.

I like Conquest glass just fine. And the slightly heavier duplex. But the turrets SUCK.........

I have a Conquest with retrofit elevation turret, haven't used it yet. How do they "suck"?

DF

No 2 feel/sound the same. Some audible, some not. Some "mushy", some not. Plus they wear out faster than any Leupold. PLUS, they spin "backwards".

When I contacted Zeiss USA I was told "That's just the way they are". NO THANKS.

Why would Zeiss make a scope specifically targeted at USA users/shooters and have the turrets spin "backwards" of every scope said user/shooters are used to? Piss poor planning right there..........

I'll check'em out.

DF

Scopes look different to different eyes. I can tell you that my eyes say you're flat out wrong, but to each his own. The elites are good, not as good as the swaro IMO.

I think Swaros are better than Elites. I have several 4200's, one 6500, a Z3 and a Z5. To me the 6500 runs more with Conquests and VX-3's, holding its own with those, quite well.

Compared to VX-6's and Swaros, the 6500 glass doesn't quite keep up, IMHO.

It's subjective, for sure.

DF

My thoughts exactly!

I must have the best 6500 and 4200's made. And I must have really bad luck with Swarovskis. I compared them side by side on antlers and line charts during good light and low light.

Could have picked up a Zeiss 4.5 x 14 x 50 today for $450 shipped.

If this is your qualifications- then Meopta all the way! Best clicks going. Low light will impress.

It is good if you bought ATK stock back in the spring............. they are up almost double their stock price! Made me a happy camper with a Classic v6-24 I sent back also.

I bought a Grand Slam the first year they came out. It was the best $250 I ever spent on a scope. Stills sets on my truck gun and functions great.

Interesting thread. Lots of good stuff.
Here's my take FWIW.
I'm a die hard Luppy guy but a couple of years ago in my never ending quest to fix what ain't broken I sold the 6.5-18 VXII that was on my Gopher gun and replaced it with a Weaver V-24 Classic. Dead nuts repeatability, user friendly turrets that are not as cumbersome as Leuppy's target turrets, fine cross-hair and dot which is great for precision work but would definitely suck for hunting, and much brighter/clearer as far as my uneducated eye's can tell. No side focus which is fine with me as I'm used to twisting objective bells but it might be a deal breaker for more modern types, LOL. Still an amazing piece of glass for the -400.00 price I paid IMO. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

My four field rifles all wear VX3/III's of one flavor or another. (2-2.5-8, 1-3.5-10, 1-4.5-14) For reliability, quality, CS, weight, reticle/turret options, and value the VX3's the best all around field scope out there IMO. With the current 4.5-14CDS being the most versatile.

In summary, Weaver on the bench and Luppy in the field is about as good as it gets for this mere mortal on a working man's budget.