Ok, so I'm whittling down a list of scopes I'm considering for a semi-custom 35 Whelen Model 70 of mine.

I've looked at a Meopta R1 Meostar scope (30mm tube), 1.5-6x42, with a 4C (illum) reticle. Compared side by side to a Swaro Z3 4-12, both on 6x, the Meopta seemed to outclass the Swaro for resolution and overall image quality.

Then there's the Leupold VX6 with a lit #4 (I want a #4 ret.), and demos on the Leica ER 2.5-10 with a #4 (non-lit).

Any opinions? These all run in about the same ballpark price-wise.

Just looking for some perspectives.

Thanks!

leupold vx6 2-12

Any particular reason to push you to the Leupy? Just curious.

tddeangelo,



I am not surprised. It took four Swarovski z5 5-25X52 before I kept one. If the VX6 has as good of glass as the VX3, I would go with it in 2-12X based on what you posted.

I have two Z3's....a 3-10x42 and a 4-12x50BT, and both are great performers for me. I have the 3-10 on the Whelen now, and my only real "objection" is that the duplex reticle is very thin, and tough to see in low light. The Whelen is my "go to" rifle, and I want a good low light performer on it.

The 3-10 is destined for my pre-64 300H&H, which was what I bought it for in the first place. It just hasn't gotten there yet.

I have that Meopta on my 9.3x62 carbine... Liked it so much that I bought another. Glass is very good and I prefer the illumination controls on the Meopta over some of the others.

Swaro and Leica would be my #1 choice
Meopta close behind
I haven't spent much time with the leupold yet

Meopta.

Meopta hands down. I have 5 now and plan to replace all others with meoptas.

I'm considering the Meopta Meopro 3.5-10x44 with illumination for my 260 Rem that is used for deer hunting mainly. It can get real dark on the coast before legal shooting light is gone.

What in particular do you like about your scope and do you find it gets turned on easily by accident. The Leupold version seems like it would be really hard to turn on accidentally.

Meopta Meopro

I am a big fan of lower powered scopes and the 1.5-6x42 fits my needs perfectly for this rifle. I have not had any issues yet with the illumination getting turned on accidently. The controls are my favorite being a rotating dial with "off" between each brightness level... I much prefer this over the "up and down" buttons on my Duralyt and VX-R.

Trevor

Leica warranty seems to be questionable. Look before you buy that one.

Jack

Thanks, the Meopta really looks good.

I do not have experience with any of the above mentioned scopes. I think the 1" Meopro Illuminated sounds good, but I would think the 2-12 VX6 Illuminated would be an overall brighter scope, being it's 30mm.

Interesting debate, would like to hear from guys that have tried both

ive got the 3.5-10 illuminated meopro. heck of a scope

the tube size has no effect on brightness.

Just to be clear here...the Meopta I looked at is NOT a Meopro. It's a Meostar, so it is also a 30mm tube, just like the Leica and Leupold.

That being said, I put a VX6 2-12 next to a Swaro Z3 4-12x50 yesterday. Weird comparison, I know, EXCEPT that I own that same Swaro, so when I saw both scopes at Cabela's, I asked to see them both and compared side by side. The Leupold is a step down optically from the Swaro. I can't find anyway around that.

The Meostar, however, is mostly a step UP. The only bummer is there's some edge blur in the Meopta. Plus I'd prefer that Meopta to have more like a 2.5-10 range.

I did some digging on reticle substensions, too. Taking everything into account, I believe I'll wind up with Leica in time. Just not right now, as funds aren't there for it. Yet.

Well, if you're doing a scope comparison indoors, and/or without the scopes being mounted, then you're pissin' in the wind. I've done side by side many times with my VX6 and my neighbor's Swaro Z3. There's not a nickles worth of difference optically IMO, but the user friendliness of the VX6 makes it much more uable to me. The Meopta's rock.

I wouldn't quite call it "pissin' in the wind", as there are ways to check things like relative ability to resolve detail. Using a known commodity like the Z3 (since I have one and have hunted with it), I can get an idea of what the VX6 can do. No, it's not empirical, scientific data, but it is possible to at least get a feel for any possible differences. Remember, Cabela's stores are not small. I can look out over 100 yards in the store, at rocks, animals, etc, and see how each resolves those detail, and the scope counter has "snap on" rifle stocks for scope viewing purposes, which I used.

As for comparisons, I've had my two Z3's and my VX7 outside several times. The Z3's always win, especially as the light dims. Not to put too fine a point on it, but generally the optic one owns tends to be the one they prefer when comparing to an optic they don't own. I've seen that bear out more than a few times.

I love my Z3's, but the fine reticles are not ideal for low light. My VX7 has a great heavy duplex, and I was hoping the '6 would too, but it doesn't. The Meopta Meostar optically beat both the Swaro and Leupold to my eyes, but I would like a touch more magnification.

Given Doug at CLNY's praise for the optical qualities of the Leica scopes, and a review from John Barsness with high regards for the Leica scopes as well, I believe that's the way I'll head.

A couple years ago my oldest son and I spent several days evaluating the VX-6 against a handful of scopes in actual hunting scenarios.

Most of our comparison time was spent between the VX-6 and Z3 as they were the closest optically. Neither of us could discern a difference between the two scopes optically until last light. That's when the Z3 would edge out the VX-6 (to our eyes).

I haven't spent time with the Meopta, so can't comment. The Leica scopes are indeed phenomenal. However, their reticles (aside from the #1) is too thin to me.

Have you seen the 4A ret from Leica? When I looked at subtensions, they looked to be pretty decent, or at least had the potential to be a good one.

The Meopta 4C (lit #4) is SUPERB. I really wish they'd put something in their Meostar line between the 1.5-6 and the high top magnification scopes they have (forget what they are off hand), plus they put 50-56mm objectives on those scopes, too, Ugh.

The 1.5-6 has a 42mm obj, which I really think is about right, but the 6x top end is a little less than I'd prefer. Don't NEED a lot of x's for this scope, but a 9/10x top end would be good.

My VX7, while hunting, is very close to my Z3's. Optically, it's not able to quite keep up, but the heavy duplex reticle is far more visible than the fine duplex reticles in the Swaro's, so functionally, I feel I can shoot both at about the same light conditions, with neither really edging the other in that regard. That's why I looked at the VX6 with a lit reticle, as that would surely settle the ability to actually shoot in dim light.

Yes, and looks just like my Swarovski Z6i 4a.... it sucks.

Post are too far apart and the center is too thin, IMHO.

Leica 4a


Swarovski Z6i 4a


VX-6 #4 illum.

Wow, those are GOOD pics for comparison!

Is that a 2-12 VX6? I've heard they were making them with lit #4's, but even Leupold's subtension charts don't show that they are actually offering it.

That Leup #4 looks pretty good...

Check out the Meopta 4C sometime (pics on their site, and they actually show a good representation of what you see when you look through the scope). It's tight like the Leupold, but the bars are about 2x the thickness.

Dang it, you're gonna make me go buy that Meopta Cabela's has....

1-6x24mm

Leupold's reticle chart (and many other manufacturers) rarely depicts the reticle as seen IRL.

Too me, it closely resembles their Post & Duplex rather than a German #4. Interesting enough, I purchased a VX-6 2-12x42mm illum. German #4 last year, and it wasn't the same as the 1-6x24mm. There was a bit more spacing, but still much closer together than Leica and Swarovski. Posts are heavier too.

I've heard and read several reviews on how good the Meopta scopes are. If they come out with one in 2.5-10x42 or something similar, I'd likely snatch one up to compare and contrast.

the 4C in the 3-12 x 56 is pretty thick. I liked it but did not like it at the same time. I liked it cause I could see it in the just about dark. You could shoot with the thing in a quarter moon....

You aren't kidding about reticle charts. That's why I started looking at subtension numbers.

I happened to notice that Doug has Meopta 3-10x50 Meostar scopes with #4's for $650. That's pretty good. Only thing on the Meostars is they are a touch short on eye relief (3.5"). The Whelen isn't a cannon, but it does push pretty good, and I don't really need to wear a scope.

jimmyp, that's good info.

FOs, the Meopta scopes I've looked through are simply superb. I haven't hunted with one, but I have Meostar binos (pre-HD, though) and they are absolutely excellent. I sold a Ziess Diascope over the summer to fund a Supergrade Winny I just had to have, but I see myself replacing the Zeiss with a Meopta spotter. The more I see of Meopta, the more impressed I get.

Like you said, if only they had a 2.5-10x40-something....

the meopta 4C posts dont come to the middle quite as tight as the non illuminated #4. great reticle tho. nice and thick

Great topic. I am in the same boat as TD, looking for a scope for the 35 Newton.

My best friend hunts with that Z3 and I have the VX6. The VX6 is easily equal to the Z3 optically. He sees no difference either way, but to my eyes the VX6 is slightly better optically - especially in poor light. Both of us agree the VX6 has a much better eyebox.

This is after comparing them side by side at the range and during hunts and under good and poor lighting conditions.

If you really like the #4 ret, you really should check out the Meopta before you make your decision. My shooting buddy just bought one recently and it has the heaviest #4 ret I've ever seen. I looked across his hayfield about 3 hours after dark with a good moon. I could have easily shot out past 200yds with that scope.

the thick bars are 5 MOA if I am reading the subtension chart correctly.

Well, I emailed Meopta. I found that 3-10x50 on Doug's site for a great price, with a #4, and got all excited. Then I checked Meopta's site for eye relief, and my stomach churned. I just emailed them to confirm, and the 3-10 gives 3.2"-3.4" of eye relief.

This is going on a 35 Whelen that weights 7.5-7.75lbs unscoped. It's not a cannon, but it does kick a bit. That eye relief seems awful short. The only option the Meopta rep could offer with much longer eye relief was a 4-16x44. That's not quite what I had in mind for the Whelen. Drat.

What about the 4x12? Seems like 3.5" eye relief would work pretty close. The FOV has to be pretty decent as well..

Yeah, your spinning my brain now.. Just when I thought I knew what I wanted!

i agree on all counts plus it has a better (bolder) etched reticle

Where I'm at currently:

-Leica seems to have the best glass, but Meopta isn't far (if any) behind

-Leica has the eye relief

-Meopta has the reticle

-Leupold has a blend of decent glass, decent reticle, decent eye relief, but none of those traits are equal to the "best" in the others I'm considering. (i.e. the reticle in the Leupold is ok, but not superb like the Meopta, glass is ok, but not a Leica, etc).

So, compromise is the Leupold. Just not sure I want to compromise, lol.

Yeah. You don't make it easy.

Ha! Gets worse...

Meopro, 3.5-10x44RD. Lit #4, HUGE eye relief (4"+), decent obj size and power range. Just not a 30mm tube.

I emailed Meopta to get their answer on what is different between the Meopro and Meostar lines, other than the main tube diameter and the multiplier being strictly 3x on the Pro's vs some at 4x on the Stars.

They are usually pretty straight with customers when questions are asked, so I'm curious to get their response.

One thing I noted from their website is they advertise etched reticles for the Meostars, but are silent on that matter in their write-ups for the Meopro's.

Yeah, just saw that one as well. 3.5x10 wouldn't bother me either, lit or unlit.

It does have excellent eye relief though.

the 3.5-10 meopta is an excellent scope. ive got one on my 270. very bright and yep 4inches of eye relief

Great intel, thank you. What is the scope comparable to glass wise? Swaro, Conquest? Just wondering if you've ever had the chance to compare it to anything similar.

Let me help you to help yourself. Call cameraland, ask them to send you the DEMO Meostar 3-10 x 50 for evaluation, look thru it to see if you like the #4 and the scope in general. Send it back if you don't (don't mount it or damage it). 3.5 vs 4 inch's eye relief, is .5 inch going to help you that much? If you don't hold it properly .5 inch ain't gonna matter.

LOL....

I know I like their #4. I saw a 1.5-6 meostar with the #4. It's the eye relief I'm concerned about. Meopta directly told me that the 3-10's have 3.2" of eye relief at the lowest power setting. That's getting on the short side, I think.

ive only compared it directly to my meostar HD 10x42 binos. i really cant tell a difference optically. i have however compared the 4-12x50 meopro to a 4-12 swaro z3 and i think the swaro was maybe just a touch sharper than the meopro but the meopta was every bit as bright IMO.

I kind of was thinking this way too. There are two ways of thinking - decide which feature you like/want/need the most and pick that scope or pick the one that has the best blend of all of them, which, as you pointed out is the Leupold. That is why I chose the Leupold. It is a compromise either way!

Get the 1.5-6 and be done with it. It will be a nicer scope for hunting.

Ok, now to possibly really put this in a tailspin....

What else should I consider, given the scopes I'm looking at? I try to be aware of what's out there, but I can't claim to know everything on the market. Anything in these realms of optics I'm not looking at that I should be?

Meostar is very close to Victory Diavari glass as far as my eyes can tell. The HT glass shades it.

Have you ever been able to compare Meostars to a Swaro Z6 or Leica ER?

Thanks for posting the pics, I agree the Leupold reticle is far superior.

Can anyone take a picture through a Meopta? I keep waffling back and forth between the 3-9x40 VX-R and the Meopro 3.5-10x44. Sorry for the bit of a hijack tddeangelo.

That's the model I have on my 9.3x62 Carbine... it's working out so well that I bought another for my 338RCM carbine. I do understand that some people like more magnification and I'm very curious about the 3.5-10x model myself down the road if I need a scope on a rifle that would be better suited to higher magnificaion.

I wound up with the Zeiss HT 1.5-6 x42 on one of my 5.56 guns, that power range makes it my most useful deer hunting scope.

i can take one thro my meopta but unsure how to post pics in the forum. i can email u a pic if u like

Feel free to email it to me if you want and I'll post it here.

Email is my username here @comcast.net

alright. ill snap a couple pics on my lunch break and get em to u

Received the pics. I just uploaded one, with the dot lit. I have another with it unlit from killindeer if the rest of the groups wants to see it.

Thank you very much gentlemen. Killindeer, how are the crosshairs on them are they thin or just right? I saw a Swarovski once and they looked far too thin just like in the pictures earlier, the Meopta does seem better.

That Meopta looks very nice. I like that alot.

the posts as u can see r plenty thick. towards the middle they get thin but thats where the red dot helps. but ive only used the red dot once. its easy to center up the target well with this reticle

If any of you guys are like me, with post 50 yr old eyes, the reticle is at least as important as the glass quality. What I'll call the "euro manufacturers" i.e. Zeiss, Leica, Swaro, Meopta, S&B use reticles that are way too thin in the fine wire part of the reticle. I like the idea of an ill reticle, and am considering one myself, but what happens if the batteries are no good, don't work, go out, etc and you're stuck with the regular reticle that's too thin? In Fost's pics, the VX6 looks by far to be the best option to me.

I have seen the Meopta's in person, and the VX6. I'm 38, and I prefer the Meopta quite a bit over the Leupold. Could be in 10-12 years, I'll agree that it's too thin, but in the meantime, I personally think I'm leaning Meopta on this one.

The #4 is the best low light reticle out there. Those who say the middle part is too thin don't understand how it's designed to work. The thin part is for precise aiming during the day, as the light gets low you use the fat part of the reticle to bracket the target. You aren't going to be making 300 yd shots at night so it's still plenty precise for the distances you'll be shooting in low light or at night.

ye thats what i was sayin that even tho the middle portion is thin its still easy to center up the target even without the illumination. love the reticle

Thank you gentlemen.

This thread is going to cost me some money I would love the 6x42 they make with an illumination but the 3.5-10x44 would be great on a 260 Rem.

I just got back from Cabela's. Till I waited my turn at the gun counter and got outside, it was all but flat dark. There was a little light in the west.

I took the Meopta 1.5-6x42 Meostar and a VX6 2-12x42.

Resolution= Both good, Meopta noticeably better to my eye. Meopta at 6x resolved the detail Leupold needed 8-9x to display. 12x on the Leupold did not please me next to 6x on the Meopta.

Clarity= Meopta had a hint of edge blur at max power. Leupold had a "rolling ball" effect, placement of it in the FOV varied by power setting.

Brightness= Meopta pretty well ahead of Leupold. Add in the fabulous #4 reticle, and illumination, and the choice was pretty apparent...FOR ME....between the two scopes.

I want to do this again, however, and get a Swaro Z3 in the mix, and have a hint of natural light lingering in the area when I get down to brass tacks with the optics.

I wish there was a Leica nearby to eyeball likewise.

You gotta mount 'em up to understand what's going on.

Yes, for sure....I'd actually submit that until one has hunted with a scope meant for hunting, you still don't know for sure what you have.

That said, I can't buy one of each, mount and shoot and hunt with them, and then sell off, generally at a loss, keeping only the one I like best. So.... I make my decisions with the best info I can get, and that is what I'm developing here.

couldn't disagree more in the vx6 and I Have hunted with it and compared it outside a store

Notice that I said "to my eye" and that the choice "FOR ME" was apparent.

I'm happy you are pleased with your VX6. I'm sure it's a good scope. I wouldn't feel ill-equipped if one appeared on my rifle, but I stand by what I've seen and in forming MY OPINION that I PREFER a Meopta Meostar to a Leupold VX6.

That is not a knock on the VX6 in anyway.

As for what I saw..... I was outside. I was looking at trees, clouds, mountainsides, signs, cars, people. There was a mountain about 2 miles to the north. I could see the mountain and resolve gaps in tree branches on the crest of the mountain....with the Meopta. I could barely resolve the outline of the mountain with the Leupold.

I looked at a lighted store sign and compared the detail seen (this sign was about 3/4 of a mile distant). To get to see the same details/image, I had to set the Leupold to 8-9x to equal the maxed out Meopta at 6x.

I also saw a globing effect as well with the Leupold, and I saw some edge blurring in the Meopta at max magnification. I saw no globe effect on the Meopta and no edge blur in the Leupold.

Is your assertion that I didn't see these things? Or I saw something else and thought I saw such things?

I like the VX6, but I like the Meopta better.

I'm sorry if you disagree, as I said, these are my opinions.

I don't see any rolling ball and in comparing the vx6 to European optics that cost more than it, I couldn't see any real issues with differences in resolution.
What was the diopter set on each scope?

By the way I hunted till past legal hours and the Leupold would've killed any deer I aimed at and I put it on deer to check

Do you feel the actual crosshairs on the meopta are as thick as the vx6? The vx6 subtend a .4" on 12x at 100 yards, which is .8" on 6x. A fx3 6x42 heavy duplex subtends 1" at 100. Thus the Leupold has some heft to the crosshairs for lowlight.
I have the money to have whatever scope I choose to have. Somehow the Leupold seemed to do as well as anything else I've used

I just do not think a vx6 would cost you a shot. Longer bigger eyebox for quick sight picture as well

For me, Eye-humpin animals is best done through binos and a scope is a quick killing device

I didn't check the diopter position, but I did focus each so the crosshairs were sharp and clear.

Maybe it was a fluke? I don't know. I know I saw it, because I checked it several times. As I adjusted the magnification, the relative position in the FOV where I noticed the effect most predominantly would move, but it was there. I was surprised, very surprised, to see it, and so I looked at several power settings.

As for reticles...

This wasn't a good comparison. The Meopta sported a 4C, which in their optics is a SUPER heavy bar with a fairly fine crosshair. The Leupold had a standard duplex. The Meopta bars were probably twice the weight of the Leupold's, but again, it wasn't Leupold's #4 reticle, so I can't make a direct reticle comparison.

I can say that I LOVED the Meopta #4 reticle, however.

I don't spend long periods of time on animals with a scope, but I do need to be able to do a few things. 1- acquire my target, 2- verify a clear flight path for the bullet, 3- occasionally verify number of points (point restrictions in PA to determine a legal buck). I need the scope to give me useful sight pictures 30 min prior to sunrise and 30 min past sunset, regardless of weather/canopy/light conditions. I've seen deer on the ragged edges of legal time, and if I'm going to see a real big one, that's likely to be the time.

Again, I don't doubt that the VX6 is a good scope, and when you get to these levels of optics, things really move to opinion. Relative age and other physiological factors play into things, too. I've seen this with my father, who is soon to turn 70. I'm 38. I can perceive things in my optics that he cannot. So your perfect scope may not be my perfect scope, and vice versa.

I have to go see them side by side with more light, as it was DARK when I finally got someone to help me take the optics outside. I also want to compare to a Swaro Z3, as I own two of those, and I have hunted with both of them. That gives me a "known commodity" to compare against.

And any delusions I had of doing anything on this front anytime soon just evaporated...literally. My home's pressure tank sprung a leak and will need to be replaced. Been cleaning up wet carpet most of the day, ick. The replacement will eat most of any discretionary money for the time being, so that's that for now.

I'm glad you can afford any scope you want, and that you choose Leupold is a sound endorsement for them. I need to purchase optics fairly carefully, as I generally cannot afford anything I want, at least not without careful planning, and I can never afford to make a $1000 "oops", so I get very, very careful about what I purchase. Coming up on 30 years of chasing whitetails, and I have learned some lessons about optics as the years have gone by, so I have some firm opinions on what I believe will work best in my situation. From what I saw last night, of those two scopes, neither was bad, but to me, the Meopta was better.

Why do I get the feeling TD, that you aren't buying anything?

FWIW I bought a like new Kahles CB 1.5-6x42 last week, for my Illuminated scope. No more looking thru a Leupold VX3 straw for me.

Good luck servicing that Kahles when you have to.

He won't have any problems having his Kahles scope serviced should the need arise.

Doesn't Kahles have a US repair rep?

Hey Fost, we missed you at the big lunch gathering at DSC. Jorge bailed on us and we could've used you being there to buy us lunch.

Good to know about Kahles repair. There for several years in a row they switched US reps so fast you couldn't keep up with it. Maybe they finally got it figured out.

Yes.

Kahles USA - Khaybes LLC (Ken Pratt)
2170 Carney Dr. Suite F
Orofino, ID 83544
Phone: 208-476-0600 or 208-476-0601
Fax: 208-476-0602
E-Mail: [email protected]

No DSC for me this year JGR. I hadn't planned on SCI either, but looks like I'll be going next month as I need to speak F2F with the folks that run the Bubye and the taxidermist in Zimbabwe.

Not sure why I have to prove or justify anything, but if you read my post above yours, you'll see my home needs a few things that were unexpected and will cut into scope funds. So no, I'm not buying anything this week nor probably this month. It might be 6 months till I do.

I was unaware I was under a timeline here?


I'm glad you like the Kahles. Wish there was a dealer somewhere on hand that I could eyeball them. I've heard great things about them, but I don't know of anywhere local to me that carries them.

It's going back to Khaybes now to have CBX illumination upgrade done on it, before I mount it on my NULA MZ.

No worries

Might as well wait till after Shot Show

They have my 3.5-10x 50 American (1") putting a #4 in it right now. That scope just seems to be right there when anything happens. I have shot more animals with it AND dropped it on the concrete more than anything else I have ever owned. I have never once had a problem with Kahles service in the 3 times I have broken this scope, even the new guys Kaybee's who are the front end for Kahles these days are wonderful people and have treated me well.

Amazing....couple years ago when the Meopta Meopro came out, I snagged a 3-9x42. Loved that scope. Excellent glass. Perfect sized reticle. Couldnt get dark enough for my blind eyes to lose the ability to see through that scope it seemed. Glass way above the VX3 and even a tad better(at least to my eyes than the then available Zeiss Conquest). But attempting to compare them was like asking to date some of you guys daughters. Now I see others have discovered that Meoptas are for real. True they dont advertise like the other big manufacturers. They probably are one of the best kept secrets of the optics world. Ill continue to buy their scopes. For the coin, i dont know that they can be beat. Especially when comparing the "total package". For that Whelen you mention, id be looking hard at the 3-9x42 with either std dplx or #4 or the 3.5-10x44. Spend the savings on boolits. Thank me later

You make good points. The Meopro's are optically identical, per Meopta's customer service folks I emailed with. I do like that the Meostar line has etched reticles, but probably wouldn't be a huge factor.

There is a 1.5-6 languishing in the bargain cave at the local cabela's, where I also happen to have a fair amount of gift cards from the holidays. I could likely walk out the door with it for 650-ish if I could act now, although I have to recover from the plumbing project first.

I'm hoping that since the scope has been there since about the beginning of Nov that they'll do a price reduction on it soon, too. It's a 1.5-6x42 Meostar, with a lit #4 reticle. I could get used to it pretty easily, but I'm also curious if the 1.7-10x42 R2 will come to pass soon...as that is my "perfect scope".

And I still have about 250 bullets stocked for the Whelen, so I'm ok there for a bit. SPS may get 250PT's at some point, and I'll add to the pile, or if I catch a deal on HotCor's again, I'll get more of those. I've used the HotCor's to hunt and have been very impressed so far, and accuracy is pretty decent, too.