So I've got two questions that are connected. First, I'm trying to choose my first hunting scope. My rifle is a Tikka T3 lite in .308 - not pretty but a sweet shooter and left handers don't have many good and pretty options. I live in Washington, so Deer and Elk are what I'm going to be hunting. It's probably going to be in open country instead of mountains because of my bum knees. The research I've done says all this means a 2.5-10 scope would be best. I'm interested in hearing what people here think about my choice, and what scope would be best. (Yes, I saw the sale on the Vortex HS.)

The other question is, why do people seem to dislike Nikon? I go and check out scopes and the Nikon scopes seem to provide amazing quality for the price - the Monarch 2.5-10x42 has great glass. So why the dislike?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Nikon sells as much 'refurbished' stuff as they do 'new' stuff.... that should answer your question right there. When you buy a Nikon riflescope you actually pay for two.... the one in the box, and the one they send you when the first one breaks.

A Leupold VX 3-9/3.5-10 will provide a lifetime of service.

I don't hate Nikon. I have some great Nikon binocs that we keep in the house for critter and bird watching (we live in the country). My first Nikon scope was a 4-16 Monarch. Put it on my new Ruger Hawkeye 223 and started load workup. Went well for a while, then groups started opening up. Must have been bad loads, right. Nope. The scope had gone bad. I replaced it with a Leupold. And the truth is that I never really liked that Nikon scope. Had a lot of flare when looking toward a rising or setting sun, and I thought there was maybe a bit of distortion in the glass. I like Leupold, Burris, and Vortex Viper. I probably won't buy Nikon again.

I would take a hard look at a Leupold VX3 3.5-10X40. It's light weight, has a great eye box and great glass for the price. Look around. There were some recent rebates, don't know if any are still available.

I've not had any problems out of my Leupolds. You might have a problem with any scope at any time but Leupold has one of the best warranties and service in the business.

Welcome to the Fire!

Depends on who you ask, I have about 6 Nikon Monarck and Buckmaster scopes. I've never had a problem with any of them. Leupold makes great tough scopes, I've plenty of them also. Some of it may depend upon you. If you are tough on Equipment, go Leupold then.

Nikon does make good stuff in the Monarch line. Every time I've been looking I find something somewhere else (i.e. in other manufacturer's lines) that to me seem to be better bang for the buck.

I've heard many complain about the PITA that Nikon gives you if you have to send one in under warranty (got to have the original receipt, verified from Nikon dealer, etc.) I've never bought one in the end to have ever experienced it, but know others who have.

In the end scopes are mechanical devices, and some break down. Go with a company with a good reputation. Leupold, and Bushnell are two that are easy on you when your optics go wrong. There are probably others that handle customers well, but these are two that I've seen first hand, by myself, or family and friends.

FWIW, most only hate DEALING with nikon, not using their stuff til it breaks. Many of us do that.

...and, I own 3-4 Nikons (have to go count), that are (I think) 2-piece tubes, which I have had no issues with, and that are bright, clear, and get hunted. Some folks have 'pet' brands, and anything that seems critical of them starts all sorts of hyper-drama around here.

I've never owned a Nikon scope. From the internet buzz, their service is better now than before. It seems at one time service depended on who you talked to and on what day. A Leupold may need servicing, though I have never had a problem with the 3 I've owned for many years, but I have no doubt that Leupold will take good care of me if I do ever need service.

Nikon sells a LOT of scopes in addition to other optics. If the scopes weren't competitive in quality and price that wouldn't be the case. I have no complaints about my only experience with customer service. It required a couple of follow ups and maintaining communication but coming from a sales and service background it was acceptable. End result was I received 2 new Monarch 3 2.5-10x42 for 2 pre-model name 3-9x40 2-piece tube scopes whose erectors didn't.

As far a comparing to a VX3 I will do so in the near future. I got a 3.5-10x40 when the rebates were going but have not really tested it. From the little I have toyed with it the optics don't scream to me they are so much better than the Monarch 3. In my experience hunting with the Monarch 3 the glass is very good particularly in the deep shadows half hour or more after sundown. JMHO

I've never thought VX3 glass to be screamingly better than the Nikon Monarch line. I've always liked Leupold's weight and forgiving eye placement( eye box). Not to say I couldn't be very happy with a Monarch, but I just prefer the Leupold for the small price difference. Maybe it's because I have had a long and perfect relationship with my Leupolds.

I own several Nikons and I like them just fine. I own one of the current Monarchs and one of the current Buckmasters. The rest are the older Monarch UCCs. They are fantastic low light scopes for the price. After using the older UCC line and comparing them to the new stuff, I don't see me purchasing anything but the UCCs in the future. To me, the glass is just superior and they can occasionally be bought used for a great deal.

I've never had to return one for service, so I can't comment on that.

I've owned a couple of VX3s, and just wasn't impressed. For that amount of money, I always go with Zeiss. YMMV

To the OP, welcome to the 'fire! It's a great place to learn and discuss.

I've had to deal with Nikon CS a few times and it was either jsut fine or really an aggravation. That said, I much prefer Leupy's to the Nikon line up and actually think the Zeiss Conquest line is the best bang for the buck. CS from Leupy or Zeiss has always been top notch for me.

My thoughts exactly.. Speaking of Zeiss. I suggest looking into the new Terra line of rifle scopes. The 3-9x42 can be had for $300.00 and the 4-12x42 can be had for $335.00.. Mr Barnsness here spoke very highly of them, so I gave them a try. For the money, they are damn nice scopes..

I have had and owned all the nikons at one time or the other. I have had one crap out on me and that's out of all the many I've owned and used. CS for memptn was a very pleasant experience. Sent in the broke one and received a newer model. What's to complain about.
I have a 4-16 monarch on a 300wm that has been hunted hard and beat around on the wheeler, that yet to fail. Can't complain even alittle bit about it.
Like Tatelaw said, I have little appreciation for the vx-3. At the price point much better can be had. As for nikons crapping out you never seem to hear anything but good reviews of leaupold customer service so that tells me that Nikon is not the only one that fails.
The main complaint for me with the pro staff is the tracking, kinda hit and miss as for correct tracking in my experience. If you set it and leave it I've only had trouble with the one scope mentioned above, but they replaced it with a better scope so no complaint on my end.

I guess I'm the odd ball on the forum but I'm definatly not in the "hail leaupold" club like most people on the forum

I've had a couple o' ProStaffs & a couple o' Monarchs. For the $ spent, I was much more impressed with the former. I'd never say the ProStaff scopes I've had were better than the Monarchs, but the ProStaffs exceeded my expectations given what I paid for them, while the Monarchs didn't quite measure-up to what I was expecting at that price point.

But that's just me. Optics are subjective as hell. Everyone's eyes see things differently, so you can only go by what your eyes tell you.

FC

Roamer, I have the same rifle, Tikka T3 .308 but right handed. I bought it for my son 4 years ago and he has harvested about a dozen Tx. Whitetails since. I put a Buckmaster 4.5-14 BDC on it for him. The BDC allows him the ability to make a long shot at a known distance. Growing up shooting BDC reticle scopes my son has not missed a deer or needed more then 1 shot to put an animal down. The Buckmaster gives him excellent clarity and the ability to adjust parallax as well.

I know Nikon currently has a big PROMO going on right now that will give you some instant saving's when you buy from a participating Nikon Dealer. This included the scopes you are looking at. Drop me a note if you have any question's.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/Buckmaster/BUCKMASTER45-14.jpg

Why all the Nikon hate? Part of it is ignorance because some simply assume that the "refurbs" are out there because of problems, which is so far from the truth that it verges on the ridiculous. If you buy a Nikon scope, pay for it, get to the exit and decide you want to return it, Nikon's policy dictates that the store can accept the return but that it must go back to Nikon and not back on the shelf, even if it was never used and has nothing wrong with it They treat samples/demos much the same. They go back to Nikon, get the complete inspection and then are re-boxed and sold at a discounted price.

I've used and abused Nikon products for many years and had no issues. When a rifle with a 4-12x40 Monarch took a fall during a studio photo shoot, the scope took the brunt of the impact. I sent it in, explained what happened and fully expected to pay for the charges since it was obviously my fault. In lwell under 2 weeks, I had a UPS box at my doorsteps -- and wasn't charged a single penny. I'd say that was pretty good CS.

Do I use Nikons exclusively? No. Am I was never a fan of the original ProStaff lineup (things , though,have since improved in the ProStaff lineup by leaps and bounds). But Nikon makes a good, solid product and one that will serve you well.

All the Nikon "hate" is about as ludicrous as all of the Leupold "worship." Yes, I own and use Leupold products. But they are FAR from the last word in optics. And if you wonder why the Leupold customer service is so highly touted...well...let's just say they get plenty of practice.

One other reason for the Nikon disdain may be by those who want "100 percent American" products. And yet these people buy Leupold??? That baffles me. Where do they think the glass comes from? Other parts are outsourced as well and do not necessarily comes from the US. They come from the company giving them the best bid -- and that company is not always based in the USA.

Well, there you go.

If a scope can't make it through a rough 'studio photo shoot'..... how's it gonna handle a pack scabbard and mountain weather?

There you go assuming again -- just as before when you concluded INCORRECTLY about Nikon refurbs. The scope, mounted on a very heavy 6.5-06 custom rifle, took the brunt of the impact onto a concrete floor from 6 feet up and was not in the best of shape anymore. Before I was disabled, I hunted for days on end in the rain and mud, trudging through brush and bumping them along rocks in the TX hill country -- without as much as a hiccup in performance. The 100+ degree heat and humidity of south TX summers did not cause any problems, either.

So Bobby T, since you obviously have a lot of inside information on these refurbs, answer this please. How many, or what percentage of these refurbs, which are inarguably plentiful, are the "I changed my mind therefore they're still brand new" refurbs, and how many are actually repaired/previously faulty?

JGRaider-What I have is common knowledge of the subject -- available to anyone willing to educate themselves instead of spouting assumptions. I spent more than a quarter-century depending on optical gear for our daily bread and learned to judge not on brand or price but on performance and value.

But before I am considered partial to one brand:

My little 7mm Bullberry Contender carbine has worn an assortment of glass, as have my other rifles. So I am not prejudiced when it comes to optics and base my choices on experience and facts, not opinions or assumptions.













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Nice pics! I am just curious as to how you know the vast majority of Nikon refurbs are new but returned, and not repairs.

Did I say that??? I don't think so. Go back and read what I wrote.I never, ever used any percentage or words like "vast majority." I simply provided you with the facts. Sorry if I sound a little short with my reply, but THIS is exactly how bad info proliferates.

answer is simple

CLNY Meopta super sale

a 3.5-10x44 for $400.

that may be the best value in scopes right now.

I broke two.... sent them back, and received different 'refurbished' scopes of the same make/model. Neither of them could pass for acceptable. The second time this happened I called them.... I was told I received a 'refurbished' unit that had been sent in for repair, looked over, and was deemed 'ok for refurbished sale'. Meaning: it didn't work for someone else so they sent it back. We decided it was fine, so we gave it to you instead of repairing/replacing the one you claim was broken. Or, we'll sell it to some sucker on Natchez.....

Nevermind.... you lost me at Bullberry....

Dave-Yes, that is indeed the steal of the year in optics (I have 2 en route!). Meopta's optics are among the most under-appreciated of all glass here in the US. But they are built like a tank and offer a tremendous value for the monetary outlay. THe Meopro line is nice, but the Meostar is downright impressive. During the winter, we were using a 4-12x40/#4 Meostar on a 23" 25-35 Contender to rid the feeders of corn-robbing raccoons using moonlight as the only illumination. We later added a feeder light, and that made things even easier.

Studio Photo Session scope failures....

Bullberry....

Feeders....

THIS.... is exactly how bad info proliferates!

Nice Pictures! Love that little 7mm Carbine! Especially the one sitting on top of the black pig.

Nikon needs to stick to making cameras. Meopta is the real deal....Big3 should be very nervous.

Dogshooter wrote: "Studio Photo Session scope failures...."

Do you have to work hard to come up with such BS, or is assuming stuff and passing along lies just part of your daily routine?

Never, at any point, did I say that scope failed. NEVER. It was beat to hell and back, and that is why it was sent in. A cursory overview of functions showed that the basics still worked, but the objective bell -- including AO -- was compromised by being bent. I wanted it checked out and any problems that the fall may have caused fixed. But at no point in time did I ever say it failed, so stop the lying, OK?

Bobby,

The old adage about wrestling with swine is applicable with some on this board. Although,you have had plenty of experience dealing with pigs.

Nice pics of the dead critters.

What brand of 25-35 barrel is that in the last picture. I have inherited a contender action and I think I will put together a carbine. A nice little .25 would be kind of a handy...

Johnny Dollar- Thanks. The 25-35 is an actual TC and not a custom. It is very efficient and has absolutely minimal felt recoil. LVR will get a 100 grain BT moving along at a bit over 2600 fps, and I used that load to take a double on bobcats at 270 and 274 yards. Bullet performance was perfect, and there was no pelt damage to speak of. I am currently running the 80 grain Barnes TTSX ahead of a charge of LVR and getting exceptional accuracy. ANd this particular Barnes does open as advertised (I can't say that about all of them). Three-shot, 200 yard groups always hover right around an inch.

Nice pair of kitties!
Do you use 25-35 factory brass or do you re-size 30-30 brass?
Give our current state of brass availability, I really like the fact that the 25-35 brass can be made from a common caliber like the 30-30.
That and it's ol'timey cool!

I use both 25-35 brass and reformed 30-30. The 30-30 brass has more internal capacity, and most loads in it require a slight powder adjustment to maintain the same velocity/POI as the 25-35 brass. But it's usually only a half-grain or so difference.

We have twin boys (they are 10) who are hankering to use the 117 RNs on a hog or 2 once school is out. They have a short range setup in mind and want to see how those perform out to 100 yards or so. (Guess I will need to round some up as I have yet to order any for them.)

Bobby,
Let me check my stash for some 117gr RN's. I have a lot of old, partial boxes and I think I might have some. Roy Weatherby liked 'em so the boys are in good company.