I picked up a Zeiss Conquest 3-12X56 yesterday and looked through it. It had a large amount of what I call tunnel vision. What I mean is that when in perfect eye position, you can see a lot of black from the scope tube and inside of the scope around the sight picture. The thicker the black ring, the worse the tunnel vision.

What high end scopes do you find with very little tunnel vision? I have always found Leupolds very good in this respect. They seem to have only a very thin line around the sight picture. I have a Kahles 2-7x36 AH that is much better in this respect than the same scope in a Helia CL that I also own.

Is this something that some of you notice as well? I really don't like tunnel vision in a scope and may even go with a cheaper scope to avoid it.

Swaro and Meopta are good.

My Bushnell 6500 2 1/2-16X42 is right behind the Leupold 4 1/2-14X50 Long Range and Swarovski z5 5-25X52 for thinness of tunnel vision.

Was this at all magnifications, or just the lowest part of the range?

never noticed that in their conquest 3-9 or 2.5-8.

How are you determining "perfect eye position"?

It sounds to me as if you are attempting to set your scope outside of the eye box. Position the scope for the prescribed amount of eye relief and there will be no tunnel vision.

David

Not exactly. There are scopes that make you feel like you're looking through a choked down field stop, even at optimum eye relief distance.

"can see a lot of black from the scope tube and inside of the scope around the sight picture. "

??

David

He's seeing the blacked out back side of the aperture.

What aperture?

I have looked through a Conquest 3-12x56 numerous times (one of my hunting pards had one mounted on his favorite rig). There is no black, the picture is bright and clear to the edge at all magnifications.

David

A stopped down image can be clear all the way to its edge.

And if your eye is positioned properly there will be no black out - you will see a full image in the tube.

David

Yea the image is perfect all the way to the edge. That's not what I'm talking about. I know how to position a scope to see through it properly. What I am talking about is that some scopes show a much thicker ring around the perfect sight picture. Some people don't seem to notice it as much as others but it drives me crazy when the black ring looks so thick.

Yes, I use the Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 and it's not bad on that scope. The 2-7 Leupolds are good in that respect also. Actually all my Leupolds look good without tunnel vision.

I was only looking at that Conquest 3-12X56 on 3X. It looked so bad to me at 3X that I wasn't interested in any farther testing.

I'm not talking about a blacked out image because your eye is positioned incorrectly. Some scopes simply show a thicker edge than others. It's like the old style TV's in the huge cabinets compared to today's flat panels with a thin frame.

Now we're getting somewhere. There are scopes that may as well not go as low in magnification as they do for that very reason. While lowering the magnification you reach a point where the field of view quits growing and the tube view comes into play.

Yep. The older Nikon Monarchs that looked like Vari-X III Leupolds exhibited this trait, the degree of which varied somewhat across the line.

The edge you are referring to - that's the thickness of the scope tube/rubber eye ring that's bothering you?

David

Yes, but it looks huge on some scopes. I think a part of the inside of the tube must be coming into view as well. For instance the tube thickness line on a Leupold VX2 2-7 only appears to be 1/8-3/16 thick. The ring on that 3-12X56 at 3X looked to be 3/4" thick.

This is what I'm talking about.

RH

Mount your rifle with the scope at 3x and move your head backwards - do you still see the black around the image?

Large objective scopes tend to have more restrictive eyeboxes than smaller objectives. I have a 2.5-10x56 Trijicon that is similar. With the scope mounted to be in the middle of the eyebox at 10x, turn the magnification down to 2.5x and it displays tunnel vision, because the eyebox has moved rearward with the magnification change. Pull your head back and you can get a full image in the tube again.

It is possible to mount the scope where you are at the back of the eyebox for 10x and the front of the eyebox at 2.5x, maintaining a full field of view for each. Eye position then becomes critical for both magnifications and changing clothing/field positions can make it difficult to get behind the scope quickly. I chose to leave it set up optimally for 10x as the scope is almost never at 2.5x.

If this is the problem you are experiencing it is due to the 56mm obj, not the scope quality.

David

I appreciate the help honestly, but you evidently just don't understand what we are talking about. It has nothing to do with eye position or proper eye relief. That thick black ring doesn't go away because you get your eye positioned correctly. It's just part of the scope design. Some scopes show a thicker black than others.

I understand what you are saying and know perfectly well that part of your sight picture won't appear correctly without proper eye relief and position. I've been hunting and using scopes for nearly 40 years.

It's ok if you have never noticed the tunnel vision effect. I would have to show you two scopes, one with and one without, and point it out for you to understand what we are talking about.

R H,

Interesting discussion. Made me start doing some more digging. After looking around I realized that I have one of the scopes that is supposed to display this property in my gun safe. Pulled out my new SWFA SS 3-9x42 that I received a few days ago, turned out down to 3x - Tunnel Vision! Goes away about 4x.

Now I see....

David

It's sort of like when a happy Sony Trinitron user was shown the two wires across their computer screen. Now you won't be able to avoid seeing it.

Thanks !

David

Exactly! I never noticed it 10 years ago, now I can't stand it compared to one that has a nice view with only the thinnest ring of scope tube showing.

David
I may have to go back to that shop and look at the 3-12X56 at a higher setting. I just didn't bother that day because I use the lower settings the most when hunting around here.

Except that on a bunch of scopes, the tunnel vision doesn't go away....

Tell me more....

David

The lack of tunnel vision and great eye box is why I've come to like Leupolds so much. I do wish they had a bit better glass sometimes, though they are perfectly fine for hunting they sometimes lack the contrast of higher end optics.

It seems everything is a trade off in some manner, which is why I was interested in what higher end optics lack tunnel effect.

Conquests suck for tunnel vision. Their owners just don't seem to want to admit it.

Leupold is far better edge to edge....

I looked thru a Leupold VX3 3.5-10 x 40 whatever at Bass Pro on Saturday set at 3.5X. I am always surprised at how much darker things look through these scopes when they are inside a building. Not saying its a bad scope just that things look darker through them than it seems through other scopes I own.

I swore to not ever discuss the intangibles of optics any more, and here I am

IMO Leupold portrays a "flatter image" and better color rendition than a Conquest does. The Conquest portrays a "glossier" image IMO. Some say the Conquest is brighter due to this glossy image, but during low light hours it is basically a wash IME. Either are very good and will get you past legal shooting hours with aplomb.

I like Conquest glass just fine. But I don't like the black donut effect they portray, or their heavy weight, or their turrets......

The absolute least tunnel vision effect I have ever seen came with a Vixen series VIII 1-6x24. There is nothing but a fine point sharpie sort of line between the magnified view in the scope and the non-magnified view outside the ocular housing. You almost have to look for the demarcation line to even see it. Sharp edge to edge too. It's a $1,200 scope so it should have been good I guess.

The tunnel vision effect comes from the addition of a wider field stop to reduce blurring at the edge of the fov. Cheaper to do that than redesign for a fov with less curvature of the field.

The Vortex Viper 2-7 has the worst tunnel vision I have encountered. Nice optics, but big black donut around it.

Appreciate the input. I've never heard of a Vixen. I'm going to google them now.

John Barnes test's scopes and publishes in rifles and recipes. IIRC the Conquest did a bit better than a VX3 of about the same size regards low light performance. The reticle makes a huge difference in my opinion a #4 is the way to go for shooting in near dark conditions.

The scopes with the most tunnel vision I have looked through are Nightforce. Definitely they are the tunnel vision champs. I think it looks like about 3/16" of black around the ocular.

Ringman, that Conquest 3-12X56 on 3X had 3/16 beat by a good bit.