Ruger Hawkeye SS action and bottom metal
21" Lilja 1-10 in 308 Win throated for 155 Scenars at 2.8 touching leade of rifling
NECG express sights
McMillan stock in GAP camo
All metal work finished in cerakote

I'm thinking a nightforce 2-10 with velocity 600 reticule, or Leupold what?

I'd put a 6x42 on it with an M1 turret and call it a day.

Leupold VX-3 2.5-8.

Unless you have a fat face, buy a KHM3 ring, use the current KHM4 in the rear and the new ring in the front. This will help you get a good cheek weld instead of a chin weld. The Ruger store has a chart.

The 6X sounds good to me. Mine wears a 4X Zeiss from about 1990, but I don't see as well as I did 25 years ago. Next choice would be a 2.5-8. Because of a goofy aberration in my vision, horizontal planes are fuzzy on top while vertical lines remain sharp. I'm liking German #1 and post and cross hair reticles more and more. Trijicons are also appealing to me.

Enjoy your new rifle.

Jack

I dislike big scopes on lightweight rifles since it tends to screw up the handling, at least to me. I also like low powered variables for the diverse hunting I do. For those reasons a 2.5-8 Leupold would be ideal IMHO.

No love for the 2-10x night force here?

Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 #4 Rect.

Regarding NF, now's the time to try one. Euro Optic has a bunch of demos now for sub $1400. If the model you want is not on the website give them a shout. There's a good chance they have a demo in the model but its not listed on the website.

http://www.eurooptic.com/nxs-25-10x42mm-zerostop-250-moa-lv-digillum-ptl-c484-like-new-demo.aspx

I'd have a hard time thinking Steelhead's choice or a SWFA 6x mildquad could steer you wrong. Neither of these will have the Power Throw Lever of the NF though.

Weaver Classic K4. Simple, rugged and great glass.

Another vote for a 6X Leupold with LR dots or turret.

That's it!

It's the best killing optic in that size/power range made. The 2.5-10x NF or the 3-9x42mm SWFA SS, as well the fixed 6x SWFA SS and the Leupold 6x if a couple of onces really matter, are the only scopes worth looking at.....


I don't recommend the Velocity 600 reticles in the NF though. Much better off with a mildot and .1mil adjustments.

What exactly is a "killing optic"?

Didn't they make the conquest 3-9 with the Z600? That would look good on that rifle, and you asked about the NF V600 reticle.

Can't think of a reason the 2.5-8x36mm leupy or the 6x36mm or 42mm won't do the job.

The nightforce is nice, but seems like overkill and extra money spent which isn't needed.

Means it does everything that a scope is meant to do. It doesn't have the glass of a Diavari (the 32mm version that is. The 2.5-10x40mm model is
fantastic) and isn't the lightest, but it's zero retention, tracking, repeatability and durability is unmatche as a whole. The eyebox on the 32mm isn't the "biggest" but it is good enougb, the glass is very good and it's size is better for zero retention. The zero stop isn't absolutely necessary, however is an advantage.

If I could only have one optic to use for killing things it would be a 2.5-10x NF.




I've heard more than once when asked how we like the little Nightforce- "it's awesome for killing".

Depends on how important zero retention, tracking, reliability and durability are to you....

The 2.5-8x36mm Leupold is a decent scope but if really used the majority will develop problems... And quick.

Oh please.........for the tactical crowd, maybe, but the average hunter will never wear out a 4200, Conquest, or a VX3. Probably 80-90 of our hunters have shown up in camp with Leupy's of some variation and hunted all over the world with no issues.

I have been using Leupold 2.5-8s for a few years and never had problems. Then again I don't suffer from LDS.

This one is from 25 years ago and the scope is still going strong.








Some more recent "killing" with the 2.5-8.



Scott killed this nice buck at 486yds and believe it or not the optic dialed perfectly and didn't even explode. Who would have thunk it?



Now, I realize we are all victims of our experience but based on my, admittedly limited, experience if you are having trouble killing with a Leupold 2.5-8 your issues won't be fixed with a change in optic.

I'd avoid the 2.5-8x Leupold, it looks as if steady use might lead to Melanoma...

Just the facts from a non-statistical sample of the "average hunter":

Every year about this time a lot of rifles are checked for zero at my place. I am there for each one (nobody allowed there alone). Most of the time I end up doing the shooting. Its usually the same crowd every year with the same rifle and scope. Most scopes are Leupolds of some sort or the Zeiss Conquest. These are most all capped scopes, no external adjustments. The last person that touched the adjustments was me the prior year. Most all rings are now Talley LW's (in other words, the rings aren't moving). Most always its the same ammo and lot/load as used the prior year.

Way more times than not the scope needs adjusting. I'm not talking about a click or two, but big swings. Sometimes its huge. Within the last week one was off at least 20".

Scopes that consistently have problems before the first day of shooting is over, don't give me a warm fuzzy.


You are correct that the average hunter will never "wear out a 4200, Conquest, or VX3". Of course the average hunter shoots less than a box of ammo a year, is "sighted in" when he's somewhere near the center of a paper plate, "zeroes" with the cheapest ammo and "hunts" with the good stuff, shoots with his barrel on the rest and drives his 4 wheeler up to the shooting house overlooking a food plot.

He wouldn't notice if the zero moved 2 inches let alone half an inch. He wouldn't think to, nor understand how to check whether his scope is tracking correctly and consistently. The most abuse he offers a rifle is pulling it from the padded safe, into a padded case, in a padded truck.

In short the average hunter isn't a barometer of much of anything.

Or spend 1/2 the money and get a SWFA SS 6X MQ, spend $30 on the easy to use zero stop kit, and call it a day.

I've never seen a 2.5-8 Leupold before.....

That's laughable at best.

Spend a week at a public range and get back to me.




Travis

I don't need to see proof of anything in which I already know to be fact. 42 years around "average hunters" verifies such. Not sure what kind of clowns you hang out with at the range, but I don't consider everyone at the range I frequent to be average hunters.

Note to self.....tactical shooters and knob twisters are the only source of accurate information on anything hunting. Thanks for the tip!

You'll trade me two SWFA SS 6X MQ for one leupold? Which Leupold? I've got a couple laying around, in like new condition, I'd traid for two SWFA SS 6X MQ in same condition. What is the warranty on SWFA SS 6X MQ? Lifetime? Transferable?
Want to try a couple so maybe we could work something out on a 2 for 1 deal.
Pete

Was the topic about "hunting" skills?


Why get so upset over an inanimate object?

You're a very emotional person.



Travis

I don't get upset or emotional about inconsequential topics such as optics, or the guys that make asinine statements such as......



or the people who defend them.

Pete,

What I said was you can buy two 6X MQs for the same smack as one Leupold with an M1. And be twice as happy.

I have one Leupold left, and you'll see it advertised here soon.

I have 2 6x and one 12X SS, and I'll keep them.

I don't expect to buy or trade for anymore Leupolds.

The average hunter can't shoot worth a pile of dog poop.

No telling what idiots might be doing with their rifles. I've not had a problem.

I can't believe nobodies mentioned Simmons.

In the most recent case of 20"+ shift I know exactly what did it. The guy has a habit of tossing the rifle in the bed of a Ranger and bouncing around off road. Of course he tries to cushion it but apparently is not successful. .

I highly suspect vibration while traveling off road is what moves most of them.

So why did you present this the first time as a case in point of regular old hunting scopes not holding zero, when in fact it was tossed around in the bed of the truck? Just curious, that's all.

Because it didn't hold zero.

I'm sure they are all nice stable stocks that are well bedded too...

The 20" shifter was actually a nice professional pillar bedded McMillan, and a darn good shooting 7-08.

Impressive.

I can't tell you the miles I've put on rifles on ATVs and skiffs. Then I loaded them in a truck, drove 3000 miles and killed more shiet with them, then a few thousand more miles and killed more shiet with them. Never had nothing shift.

Holy chit! You mean if they're not kept in padded cases they won't hold zero! Who woulda thought..... Straight quality.

Rough and tumble lot some are.

Still ain't had a problem.

To the OP, my preferences mightn't be applicable to you or the type of terrain you hunt in, however they're based on hunting deer for forty five years, averaging over 70 days per annum in sometimes very rugged and remote terrain. I currently use a Sako .308 as my main deer rifle and it's topped with a Leupold VX-2 2-7X33 in Leupold low ring mounts.

If it's one thing I don't want on a rifle it's extra and unnecessary weight. Done with the heavy, variable Euro optics. A small Leupold variable or a quality fixed 4x (6x if you only hunt open country) mounted low as possible and you're good to go. Have had many different Leupold scopes on different rifles and none have ever let me down or lost their zero.

The KISS principle works.

A 4x or 6x is all you really need on a 308

You jazzed me with "anybody can make Match Kings shoot," but you couldn't get a 308 to shoot? C'mon man!

If the platform was a Win M70, it makes sense.

I'd take a serious look at a Leupold 6x36. If you go with something like a Nightforce on that particular rifle, you're going to be well over 9 lbs field ready.

Might also think about putting the rifle on a diet with a 20 oz. stock from MG Arms.

Horse chit.

For somebody that kills more than targets, a 308 and a 6X make perfect sense to me.

I have a friend who used an older model Leupold 2.5-8x36 almost every day for several years, weather permitting, to make his living shooting deer and goats as a government hunter. Never missed a beat.

Illuminate us as to how many 2.5-8x's you have used, round counts, ranges, how do you conduct tracking tests? How do you test zero retention? Durability?

What good are tracking tests? My criterion is venison in the freezer. I'll go along with zeissman except I have had 2 Leupolds go belly up. One was fixed, the other replaced no questions asked. That's 2 failures in over 30 years of several scopes and lots of hard use.

You made the claim, YOU prove it.

Please enlighten us as to why that particular model would be any different from others and what experience you have to base this claim upon.....

I'm not defending Mr. Formidilosus but the average hunter isn't a barometer of much of anything. Except perhaps levels of stupid.



Travis

I've been using 2.5x8's on a couple of rifles for 0ver 15 yrs and both have never wandered from the original zero not sure how much more one can expect, you only seem to get involved in these scope debates to point out how your such an expert in all things related to scopes!

That particular model is no different than most other Leupold variables. They ALL suffer from the same issues. The 3.5-10x40 Mark4 M3 LR is the most failure prone modern sniper optic that has ever been fielded. Every single Leupold TS30 (2.5-8x), M3 LR, and 4.5-14x50 M1 that I have been issued has failed in some form or fashion.


My experience is based on being a military sniper, teaching at a couple of places with virtually unlimited ammo budgets where my yearly expenditure was over 30k rounds at long range, having used extensively every military sniper optic issued in the last decade, teaching "hunting" classes and seeing nearly every type and brand of scope come through and watching virtually all of them fail, and as a competitor. In the last month I have fired just over 3K rounds of match ammunition and have watched almost ten times that fired with every single round being scored and tracked. Very few scopes consistently make it a single day without needing to be rezeroed or problem solved.


One of the best funded and supported sniper schools averages around a 30% "problem" rate of Leupold Variable Mark 4's in each class.




This isn't a measuring contest or me trying to say that you can't kill deer with a certain scope. It is me offering that there are significantly better scopes for the same money that will be more durable, hold zero better, and track correctly consistently.



If you don't mind-

How many 2.5-8x's you have used, round counts, ranges, how do you conduct tracking tests? How do you test zero retention? Durability?

You have realize that formy is afflicted with LDS.

Do Leupold scopes fail? Yes
Do Nightforce scopes fail? Yes
Do U.S. Optics Scopes fail? Yes

If you own a rifle and a scope and actually use it enough, chances are you'll have some kind of problem during its life. It's the nature of anything mechanical.

Have you ever owned a car that never broke down or needed any mechanical maintenance?



I know competitive shooters and folks who test and mount scopes for a living. They feel the same way about certain brands of scopes from their experiences in the field and in test conditions. Leupold ballistic reticles are perfect. A mil on the reticle measures a mil in reality, unlike many scopes with higher price tags. If you knew how bad some were, you'd never entertain the thought of buying one. Tracking and click values are generally accurate. One of the scopes I own was tested and proven to be the best scope he's ever tested of any brand over 25 years of mounting thousands of scopes. The click values were dead nuts perfect the entire length of the travel till the knobs stopped and it tracked on the vertical line of travel, never vearing, till the end.

Now as far as Leupold is concerned, I don't own any rifles with a scope that isn't made by Leupold. I'm not sponsored by Leupold or have any affiliation with the company. I Pays my money and Gits my scope just like any other customer. I've used the scopes for what they are designed; I have target knobs on every one. I've killed game at long range and have competed at long range over the last few years, winning and placing well at some of the toughest shoots around, even matching course records. The treatment the equipment takes at these shoots makes hunting look like a trip to the range.

I shoot with friends who are sponsored by Leupold and have proved themselves to be among the top shooters in the country, winning the most prestigious shoots. They are also long range hunters who actually dial their scopes

Ya got a member here in JohnBurns whose resume speaks for itself at long range.


The fact of the matter is that there isn't a better value scope out there, no matter what formy says. Leupold is a hell of a lot of scope for the money.

Yada yada yada.

I see nowhere where you stated you actually USED 2.5-8x36s Leupolds and had them fail. As you inferred earlier. And since the military doesn't issue them, it's pretty safe to say you were bowing smoke out your A$$.

So basically, what we have here is a gross generalization made about ALL Leupold scopes. A blanket statement. As suspected.

I gotta go to work.

You kids enjoy......

The stupid... it HURTS!


2muchgun,

YOU are the average hunter.....


The TS30 IS a 2.5-8x Leupold. There's a picture of mine in this thread. Probably a safe bet that I've shot more rounds in a single week with a 2.5-8x Leupold then you've shot in your life.





rc,

How many Leupolds and what models have you personally shot over 1k rounds with in a year that have never been off on click values, zero, or tracking?

Never mind on the tracking and click values as you've already stated that you've had problems- "generally accurate".

Fomo, take a big swig from the cup of humility.
Until you approach anything from a position of humility, and *then* experience, you'll come off as a know-it-all a-hole that nobody gives a rat's ass to hear from.

To OP, consider the 6x leupy and the 2.5-8...they will perform better than most of us can push them.

The OP asked about a scope for his fine looking custom .308 rifle. Assuming he bought it for hunting, which may well be a false assumption on my part, a Leupold 2.5-8x36 or similar sounds like a fine choice.

Does a hunter shoot thousands of rounds a year through his hunting rifle? Doubt it. Does he/she need a scope that doesn't fog, has clear optics, is not too heavy and keeps it's zero? Yes. Leupold scopes fit this criteria at a good price point.

The other day, a visitor to my local range let me try his .308 Steyr SSG 04 sniping rifle. It was topped with a S&B PMII scope, one of those clay coloured ones. The scope was huge and the whole rig heavy. Good fun shooting at the gongs but I'd rather go hunting with my Sako Black Bear .308. Each to their own.

Anybody willing to send one of their Leupold variable scopes to Formidolosus for zero retention testing???

Let the rubber meet the road!

I own VX2's, VX3's, 6.5-20 30mm Mark 4's LR ERT, 8.5-25 30mm Mark 4's LR ERT, 6.5-20 Mark 4's LR ERT M5A2's, etc.

All of the Mark 4's have had thousands of rounds shot under them per year, as they are on Competition rifles. One is on a hunting rifle now. I have one in my drag bag as a back up scope already mounted in the rings in case one goes down at a shoot. I don't care what brand you have on your rifle, if you have any clue at all, you'll have a back up scope ready to mount.

To address your jab about tracking and click values, just about every scope vears off a perfect vertical line at the last part of their travel before the knob bottoms out, regardless of brand. My Mark 4 M5A2's do not.

I have had scopes go down, just like anyone else who shoots. I have sent them in to Leupold and they have been repaired or replaced promptly. Best customer service of any optics maker. That says a bunch too.

I have seen leupold click values to be off a little. Don't take that out of context either. When I say "off a little", it means in the cumulative, compounding sense. IE: The values of total units the reticle moved may not be exactly what was dialed, but in an increment so small it hardly matters. I'm talking about 1/4 MOA to 1/2 MOA at full travel...60 minutes.

You'll see that problem at about 1400 yards. You have more things to worry about at 1400 yards than 1/4 MOA of accuracy. Even then, the actual click value of your turret can be calculated and put into your ballistic program which will account for the tiny inaccuracy.

For example, my 4.5-14 VX3 LR CDS 40mm is off by 1/2 MOA at 45MOA




Do you know why Ballistic programs have that feature? It's not because only one scope brand could have this problem. It's common.

I have noticed the scope values getting much better the more the turrets are used while actually on the jig as well.

You'll see that the actual click values are calculated at .247 MOA instead of exactly .25 MOA. Tiny difference.

I have a 6.5-20 VX3 LR Side focus 30mm tube 40mm with a custom TMR. Reticle, as always, is dead nutz perfect at full power...



The evaluation sheet looks like this



Everything is about the same. Off by about 1/2 MOA starting at 1260 yards with the rifle it's on.

There is no such thing as the Ideal scope, for all individual, just as there is no such thing as the ideal woman, for any and all men.
There is no doubt, for us older then dirt individuals, that the old K series Weavers, were as close as it gets, to filling that tall order tho. However, since ADK acquired Weaver, and voided the warrenty on all optics mfgered before their acquisition, I will no longer buy a Weaver!
In regards to Leopold, I bought a VX1 a few years ago, mounted it one one of my firearms, set it in the rest to bore sight, and as I was adjusting the windage, the cross hair wouldn't move! I kept twisting the adjustment screw---until it backed out!! I contacted Leopold, was told to send it in. I did, and went to our local store, bought a VX2, figuring when I got the VX1 back, to just use it as a spare, or mounting it on a different rifle.
When I went to adjust the VX2, as I adjusted, the cross hars would not move smoothly. ya would adjust--NUTHUNG, and then they would jump. Again, I contacted Leopold. Was told that this is a commen problem, because the internal adjustments had not been properly lubricated!! I was to adjust both adjustments all the way in, and then all the way back out, at least 4 times, so the internal lube would be distributed evenly! Ya, it did help--sorta. But, when I got the VX1 back--unrepaired, with a one line note "insufficient information", when I had included a detailed letter with the scope, NO MORE LEOPOLDS!
The best scope I have is a Simmons Presidential, 4 x 44. It's been on my .300 win mag since '90. Has seen much more service and abuse then most folk could give a firearm, and it has never lost zero--never had to be readjusted! The second best, would probably have to be that old Bushnell "45" Wide View, on my .45-70.
I have more then a few firearms, probably close to 20 different scopes, some cheap, some not so cheap. In most cases, ya take care of'um and they will do what they were designed to do.
I'm durn near 80, have lived in the bush most of my life, started huntin' trappin' before I was 12, and if a scope will stand the abuse of my way of life, it'll sure stand up under the use most of you folks would give it. However, whats good for me, may not be as good for you, weather it be my choice of a scope, or a woman!

No need, I've got two 2.5-8 that I have been testing for 15 + years. They've been horseback, hauled around on an ATV, bounced around in a pickup, dropped, dust storms, rain, snow, lent to my kid that could destroy an anvil and have survived the way I use them fine. Not everyone twists turrets on every rifle.

Will they fail someday? Probably.

I could give Form' a Ryobi impact and it would probably last him the rest of his life, I'd burn it out in less than a year.

Thank you. Im on my phone now and it would take me 3 days to type that. Exactly my point.

Formy---have you had said scope fail on a hunting rifle? I have owned 3 and all performed fine. One has been on a 1953 M70 30-06 forever.

If you'll spare me the military stuff , I'll spare telling you that I shoot LR, I've owned 100s of rifles/scopes, loaded 10s of thousands of rounds, and had bunches of scopes fail. But only 1 of over 50 something Leupolds.

I have a Mark 4 16x40 M1 that is on its THIRD set of turrets. For LR I use it and a couple of NXSs. All 3 track perfectly, and yes, I'm fully qualified to make this claim. I have been a turret twister for a very long time.

Military experience is great. But I don't see how it is relevant every time "the average hunter" as you say, asks for a recommendation for a hunting rifle scope.

Asking old timers like Charlie how he tests his scopes in order to "prove'" to you his credibility is nothing short of ludicrous. The guy has been killing critters consistently with Leupold scopes probably as long as you have been alive. Such a man is simply going to tell you to GFY every time. As he should.

Not trying to pick a fight. You seem like an okay dude. It's only the posers whom I can't stand.

Hopefully you will pick up what I'm trying to lay down here.

Gotta run. Later....

In my experience, Leupold variables on hunting rifles shift POI at a high rate. Yeah, its a bunch of rough rednecks running them, but isn't that the point?

Ingersoll Rand is 10x the tool as Ryobi..

Ryobi is the Leupold of the tool world.

Pot/Stirred

Also, everyone is saying the OP just wants an average scope for average use..Did you guys miss the mention of Nightforce in the first post? That would lead a guy to assume he's going to be twisting on it, dont you think? How many guys recommending Leup, besides RC really dial in? I still have a lot of leups, that I set it and forget it,no turrets on them. They are very reliable for that, IMO.

Lots of us here have lost our trust in Leup, ant lots of guys here love them..I've lost trust in them.

They have a great warranty,too bad I had to use it annually or more. All except for one 4.5-14LR, its a keeper.

Cordless impact you tool.

I use and have never had to send a Leupold in for a failure in 30+ years of use, and I can take them or leave them, been looking at other brands like NF and LRHS lately just to try something different!

Good luck with that. You'll stand a better chance of being hit by a meteor than Formid abondoning his oversized ego. He equates knob twisting addicts with the avg hunting crowd, which is a joke. When I say "average hunter" I assumed people were smart enough to know that this means "non knob twister/non sniper/non sniper wannabe". Therefore I stick with my statement that the average hunter (non knob twister) will never wear out a VX3, Elite, or Conquest.

You're right, but if it has knobs to twist it shouldn't wear out.

There are certain scopes with knobs that are glorified iron sights and are perfect for Joe Hunter who just wants to look at them. They don't track, the reticles are inaccurate and the click values are not even close to what they say they are.

Leupold is not one of them...

I hear ya, JG....agreed from the get go on your "average hunter" verbiage.

There are hunting optics, and there are sniper/tactical optics, they ain't no where near the same for many reasons.
If I'm shooting some Isis goat humper from 1000 yards, my 6x36mm ain't getting the nod.
Whitetail from 165? Done deal.

Gentlemen,

Background on myself, Military sniper that has used everything from leatherwood ART II to a Leupold MK4 mounted on a Barrett 50.
I've competed at the national level at Camp Perry in years past with wins in over the course and Long range. Used a MK 4 16x that didn't adjust, (cost me a win) as well as a 6.5-25 Leupold that did work well enough to help me win the Wimbledon cup.

I've hunted the west from Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho and other places with several good bull Elk, cow elk, and 2-30" plus Mule deer from the Paunsagunt and BC, and several antelope to my credit. I hunt the swamps in Fl and Ga for pigs and deer.

I've had good and bad Leupolds, and every one that needed it, was repaired for free by Leupold. As they are made in the USA, most of my hunting rifles wear Leupolds. I posted the thread in hopes of possibly find something I was overlooking. I want a reticle thats illuminated, an elevation turret that can be used and tracks with no glitches, and is reasonably light weight. MY bad on not posting this up front in the beginning.

I'm in the process of dumping a LOT of rifles and scopes and hope to downsize to a couple hunting rifles with standardized loads for all around use for Elk, deer and pigs.

My good friend John Whidden from Whidden gun works, swears by Nightforce, so I'm leaning this way, but if Leupold has a variable 10x Illum model like the ultralight and others here say it's the sh*t and tracks well, I'd buy one.

I appreciate the discourse and if another scope than the 2.5-8 model VX 3 is recommended in the Leupold line, I'm all ears.

Other wise, it looks like the nightforce 2-10x32 is coming this way.
Best regards,

Rgr-x

Can't see a 6x sucking, but you have to make yourself happy.

That's the plan.
Thanks for the input.

If you are after a compact scope, the NF 2.5-10x42 is a nice improvement over the x32. It is relatively new, and I am just starting to work with it, but thus far have been happy with it. NF finally made the illumination adjustable externally, which is a long overdue improvement. Really like it a lot.

The NF 5-22x56 is my favorite of all NF scopes, and I use it for target shooting and really enjoy using it hunting. The 5-22x56 works well enough for hunting that I have shot feral pigs by moonlight with it on two occasions.

Reticles are a personal preference. This one has the MOAR, which I find user friendly and helpful. The NP-R1 is good also. Others will say go with one of the versions of a Mil-based reticle, which is a good choice too. Just make sure the turrets match the reticle.

Leupolds - I sold off all of my (four) Leupolds except for a fixed 4x on my nephew's 22LR. Some on here have never had a problem with their Leupolds, and good for them, truly. I no longer trust their reliability. Maybe that will change in the future. Their customer service and warranties may be the best in the world, but to me the best customer service is to design and build it right before it leaves the factory so it works correctly, is durable, and does not go down.

I've never had a NF break or need to go back other than adding a zero stop to an old one. I have never seen a NF or S&B break, but I have seen first hand Leupolds and USO's have problems.

That's just my experience, which is less than Formidilosus, Rick, or Burn's. Obviously others have different opinions and experiences with lots of good luck with Leupold, which I hope holds for them. Just sharing mine fwiw.

F, out of curiosity, which scopes have been the most durable and reliable in your experience?

Here is the 2.5-10x42

An M3A on a M24 SWS never failed. I've not used a Nightforce.

That Nightforce 2.5-10 is a great scope. A friend has it on his AR.


Hey formy!

Just thinking about everything. You constantly preach that Leupold won't track, the click values are wrong, they don't hold zero, and on and on. I haven't seen you post one shred of evidence to that; just hearsay.

You can see how the scopes are tested that I've posted, in a non-biased, scientific manner. If a scope doesn't adjust properly, the reticle values are wrong, or the tracking is phugged, it's right there for the Inspector to see and record on the Scope Evaluation Sheet.

Please tell us how you come to your conclusions.

This set up is similar to how i do mine, rail on an I-beam,My board is much better tho,IMO. never video'd it tho.You might have to view in fullscreen to see the marks...

That's ironic. Ego would seem to be admitting that you're an average hunter repeatedly and then proceeding to argue with dudes who actually do shoot at distance that a 308 slinging 168gr SMK's is a "good" LR load. Ego is not, however, directly addressing a question about scopes or the discussion of same. Despite what our culture wants you to believe, all opinions and experiences are not equal. I'm sorry that it offends to learn that your Bushnell, Leupold, and Conquest hunting scopes aren't that great in comparison to what is now available, nor that there are people with significantly more experience with same.


If I want to know about hunting Muley's in the sage brush, I don't really want to hear what the dude from Florida who's never done it has to say. I'm WAAAY more interested in the dude who's made it his life mission to consistently murder desert mule deer. Feel free if I start pontificating about hunting desert deer, to tell me to STFU and stop giving bad advice.

Everything should be vetted, and it would take about 5 minutes of searching to see what Frank Galli who worked at one of the premier sniper training facilities has to say. Hint- it's nearly identical. What I wrote isn't ego, it's reality.







Leupold M3A and Mark4 fixed 6x40mm, 10x, and 16x have been excellent. The Mark 6x40 M3 would probably be the last scope that I would get rid of. Too bad Leupold refuses to build a variable version. Yep, I suffer from LDS alright.

The Nightforce F1 3.5-15x50mm is the standard on which all other variables are judged on when it comes to just plain working every time. As well the Compacts (1-4x, 2.5-10x) are fantastic. In truth all the NF NXS series when viewed in large numbers is the standard.






Indeed. Wish they would make a variable built the same.








What I've said is that there are better, more reliable options than Leupold Variables for any distance work. I've also repeatedly stated that fixed power Mark 4's are great scopes, suffering only from mismatched reticles/adjustments. For true lightweight rifles the 6x42mm Leupold is a solid choice, again suffering from mismatched reticles/turrets.





Testing wise- we have an adjustable steel block that has piccatinny rail mounted to it. Scopes are mounted and checked on a CATS target generally. This usually only happens if a problem is suspected.

When a new scope is mounted it's bore sighted, a round fired, the correction "read" on the reticle, and the adjustment made. If it's a known rifle it's zeroed in 2 rounds if the scope works. Then a 10 round confirmation group is shot and turrets slipped. Then while aiming at the same target we'll fire 1 round while dialing up every mil for at least 10 mils. Then back down. Then either use the reticle to measure the rounds or usually use a ruler marked out in mils to check. As you stated, tiny variances in click values don't concern me too much.

That usually starts it unless it a scope is specifically being tested or checked. We shoot enough rounds at targets that are within group size that any errors will show up quick.

Zero retention is checked every day while shooting. When we zero, we get a real zero. If I'm shooting a 1moa system, then all 10 rounds will be within a 1 inch dot at 100. All rounds INSIDE the dot. Not somewhere near it. Then every time a group is shot or zero checked it is obvious if something has moved

Interesting. Almost like there's an echo.... Grin

Jeffbird,


The SWFA SS scopes are diffidently on the good to go list as well. Very good scopes.

Well we already went down that road.

Formy mounted a new Leupold on his ultra accurate (2 MOA) carbine.

Formy gave the turrets a twist and the scope tracked perfectly.

Formy did not understand that MOA is not IPHYs and stated said Leupold was defective.

Formy was shown the errors in his test.

I really don't have a problem with Formy and think he really has some good info and interestng ideas to offer but the LDS thing is really distracting.

How did you determine what 5 mils was and mark your board? Is this your video and board?

If the board is marked incorrectly, it tells you nothing about the click accuracy or tracking

No [bleep]? The board has to be marked correctly?

No it is not my video. But do you suppose those dirty buggers that did it put up an incorrectly marked board for the Leupold tests, then made a correctly marked one to test the Nightforce?

LDS has obviously made it to youtube now too,[bleep] spreading faster than ebola!

I wonder if each vertical increment is a tiny bit larger than the previous one as they move away from center. Not that the adjustments of a scope could resolve this for typical angles of course.

I did same test with a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 a year or 2 ago. Nothing new. Same method has been around for eons.

The Vortex tracking was a tad off by the way. Not enough for Joe Hunter to notice, but probably 1.5" @ 600 yds, IIRC. I posted results somewhere. If it weren't 4:10 a.m and I didn't have multiple shots of Elijah Craig 12 yr. old in me, I may remember where

Yep, well said!

Formid, if you would have stuck with the "AT DISTANCE" verbage from the get go, nobody would have argued. 95% of big game hunters don't give a ratzazzz about that, hence my point.

The "average hunter" (non knob twister) hasn't had much trouble killing stuff over the past 60 years without knobs, believe it or not.

Yeah, I'm average. Never stated anything contrary. Believe it or not I haven't had much trouble killing stuff either over the past 42 years.

Out of numerous Leupolds, Zeiss, and a couple Pentax, the only scope I've ever had go back to the manufacturer due to mechanical malfunction was a VX-III 2.5-8X36. It was a broken erector spring that failed without much for round count. An example of one doesn't mean much, but I haven't bought a Leupold variable since. Slowly moving towards fixed 6X.

I'd suggest the same to the OP.

When I saw your pic of the rifle in question, I thought to myself, that's not a sniper's rifle, that's a hunter's rifle.

I like it, BTW.

Could you please elaborate on the FX3 6x42? I'm assuming your testing has shown repeatable tracking and zero retention (could you comment on that), but I'm curious as to what you mean by "mismatched reticles/turrets." By "mismatched turrets" do you mean the MOA adjustments are not accurate? I have an FX3 6x42 in the safe with an M1 turret that I'm planning to test for an upcoming hunt.

The background is this. I'm getting ready for a hunt next season that I need a lightweight rifle for, with a dependable scope for possibly long-ish shots that I'll need to dial for. It's a backpack sheep hunt in AK and I'll be paying a guide (not cheap), so it's not something I'll be doing again any time soon.

I have the rifle in-hand, a NULA .260 that shoots half MOA at 300 meters. I've tried two popular Leupold VX3 variables, a 2.5x8 and a 3.5X10, both with turrets. Neither tracks accurately as far as the MOA adjustments required as predicted by a couple of different ballistics programs. Which I could live with by making up my own range cards if they were repeatable and returned to zero but they're not and they don't. Last time I had the 2.5x8 out I zeroed it, shot it at different ranges out to 700, and it was 1 1/2 inches high when I returned to 100. The 3.5x10 seems to be tracking better (not done testing yet) but there's still the problem of the inaccurate MOA adjustments--if I change to a different altitude, my custom range card that works here will be out the window, and I won't be able to plug the new altitude into a program and get new drops.

For all of you Leupold guys, I am not interested in a pissing match and I understand that my scopes represent a sample of one. So this question is not directed to you.

So with that background could you please elaborate on the 6x42 as far as accuracy of adjustments and repeatability, and what the mismatched turrets/reticle will mean in practical terms?

Thanks.

The problems you are having with your data most likely aren't because of any scope issues. Most likely they are input issues with the ballistic program.




What he's talking about is an MOA turret paired with a reticle set up in Mrad which isn't an issue unless you are a moron.

It's not a pissing match.

After what I've accomplished at Long Range with Leupold scopes, I'm not gonna stand by and let someone say they suck for Long Range without a little discussion.

Sorry, but it is a pissing match. If it wasn't, you wouldn't have added the words quoted above.

So now lets have a pissing match over whether it's a pissing match.

You really like to argue

If I hadn't accomplished anything and it was because of Leupold, I'd surely tell you too.

The fact is Leupold doesn't suck and won't hinder anyone from doing their best on a hunt or in a match.

If the shooter sucks, it's easy to blame it on equipment.

Interesting that you can deduce that over the internet. Which variables do you think I'm mistaken on? Because you know, it's possible to do a quick sensitivity analysis and plug in different values for BC, MV, altitude, temperature, sight height etc. and see what effects they have.

The answer so far is, not enough to account for the differences in predicted adjustments vs actuals in the field.

I strongly suspect the 24hourcampfire optics forum is why there aren't many soap operas on television anymore. Why bother watching TV drama when you can just come here? Though there aren't nearly as many half-naked women on the optics forum as on others.

I always like it when I ask a direct question of one person, and another feels the need to reply.

The egos on here are amazing.

You should just buy a new scope smoke. It'll solve all your problems.

Wanna buy a vx3 2.5x8?

8X would be close to the bottom end power range for any scoped rifle I own, but thanks.

It would be perfect on an AR.

No, an EOTech red dot would be perfect on an AR.

And, by the way, I don't need to buy another scope, I have the 6 x 42 ready to go.

I humbly check my zero the day before I hunt with a shot or two.

Seems to me as usual that Leupold has its defenders and detractors, I seem to break all the usual variables without brand prejudice.

A good soap opera features emotional attachment and ego involvement in your personal choice which is a normal human reaction especially when your choice is "good enough" and for this show it's just "sport hunting". For a Lion hunt or a SD rifle who would put a Barska rifle scope or a Bushnell Trophy Red dot on their gun over a S&B 1.1-4 Shortdot or Aimpoint for a SD rifle? My next variable is the SWFA super chicken 3-9x42 just due to general experience and vibes. If I win the lottery I would get the NF 2.5x 10.

Well, as far as J Burns and RC, I don't think it's an emotional attachment, they've just had good results with their scopes. I'm not questioning that, and I'm not questioning their credentials or experience. Sometimes it's good to get opinions from both sides of the argument though, especially from the guy who's seen multiple failures.

And BTW, I was just reading where K Bell used the Barska almost exclusively.

Not everybody's definition of "failure" seems to be the same as evidenced throughout this thread.

Now come on fellas. Do you guys really (serious question) think it is rational to equate when a guy spins a dial 200 times every weekend, to the average big game hunter who spins his dial about 50 times in his life?

I think your're right

Maybe 2new99's or dave284 will show up and improve the view!

I'm hearing a cry for help.....

Thank you.

You've been peeking in the basement.

You're welcome Rick...

Dang! My scope just fogged up.

The 6x42 Leupold has been the best "hunting" scope overall for zero retention and consistent adjustments. Fixed powers tend to be better in all regards within a scope line. The 6x42mm is great hunting scope,meaning that it's not built for abuse and constant use of the turrets. However, given that they are quite durable and usually adjust consistently but not always accurately- I.e. one click might not be .25MOA. I Can make do correcting click values as long as they're repeatable and the 6x has a LOT going for it in ease of use, but I find it to be annoying and useless when there are scopes offering MUCH more consistency and zero retention. In the world of hunting built scopes the 6x Leupolds are king, however lag far behind optics purpose built for absolute reliability.

For those reasons I am much more inclined to choose a 6x or 3-9x SWFA SS, NF Compact, etc.

By mismatched turrets and adjustments I mean that they adjust in MOA and there is no MOA based reticles available. You can get a mil installed base reticle installed but not .1 mil adjustments. Of course it is possible to use a scope with MOA turrets and a mil reticle, I had to do it for a long time because there was nothing else. It's stupid to do it now. It adds unneeded effort. Dudes be pissed when the experience how easy it is to read the hit or miss in the reticle and apply same.

As far as inaccurate adjustment goes, you can measure what the click value actually is and input that into several different ballistic calculators and it will correct it all for you....

I matched the Course Record at the Whittington Sporting Rifle Match with a Leupold Mark 4 LR ERT 8.5-25 TMR with MOA turrets and of course the TMR, which is a mRad based reticle.

The match is a one-shot-per-target match, so there is no chance to make a correction and fire another round at the same target.

First of all, if you are missing with elevation errors, you have some homework to do or you have ranged a target incorrectly.

In any case, a scope set up as such is no hinderance to anyone who has a clue. You fire a shot that you dialed in MOA and see the impact 1/2 mil below the target. You simply quickly use the same wind hold and hold 1/2 mil higher on the reticle for a follow up shot. No dialing or conversions necessary.

More thanks.

Please continue forcing me to thank you

I enjoy the hunt.

Is that it Formidilosus?
Three choices for hunting?
What about the Bushnell 3-12x44 LRHS?
I have a FX3 6X42 but would like a low power variable because I hunt in very tight cover for the most part, but there are two places where I could stretch it out to 600 yards..
The SWFA line is not an option for me as I don't live in the states and they don't export or I would have one..
Thanks

rgrx1276, sorry for butting in here..

Jeezus Gawdamned Pfhuqq...the mind numbing Dumbpfhuqqtitude here NEVER disappoints in it's incredible hilarity. Thanks for doing your "best"!

You got the Haybale & Crockett Crowd hitting the high-pitched Whine,being "lucky" enough to "brag" that their "Life" worth of "experience" is pfhuqqing dismal at best and wearing same "proudly",as a badge of "honor". EPIC hilarity! Pfhuqqing WOW +P+! Texans are reliably THE Dumbest of Pfhuqqs and 'Raider never disappoints,with her 7 pokes a year of "findings". Holy schit,I'm pfhuqqing crying I'm laughing sooooooooooo pfhuqqing hard!!!

Then there's the Techno KoolAid Drinkers and their razzle-dazzle "Tests",with all their Whizbangery,which includes everything that doesn't matter and skips the things that do...which is actually shooting the pfhuqqing glass. A leetle hint for them Drooling Window Licking Pfhuqqs,in that all glass does "better",when it's "merit" is factored without firing rounds through same. Hint. Laffin'! Re-wow!

Then for frosting and going for the jugular,a 6x42 "Treatise" on how they'll not deliver the goods in close confines. FUNNIEST schit I've read from you poor poor STUPID pfhuqqers in quite some time! THANKS for the colossal laughs!

Now for them FEW that actually shoot,none of this schit is too "difficult". Simply gun a pfhuqqing zero,zero turrets in accords and then extrapolate 100yd lineal vertical findings,by dialing copious dope and returning to zero betwixt pokes. Trends will readily appear,dots get connected and money goes in the Bank. Conduct bidness via them findings and literally run with it,less a fret. Hint.

A 4"x4" "box test" will reveal nothing but humor,though full erector travel swings,will reliably etch particulars in stone,when pokes is flunged betwixt them gross erector travels. Re-hint.

Will have some Troops in tow for a 3wk November To Remember and will certainly take the time to gun some footage,if only to rub the noses of AMAZINGLY stupid pfhuqqers in their own stupidity,so they can obliviously continue to wax eloquent on "all" the things they "think" they "know" and funnier yet,"do".

Snake Oil,Haybale & Crockett and McGyver all wrapped up into one Drooling Jerry Lewis Telethon...you Stupid Pfhuqqers are a hoot!

Now for poignant descending bullet points.

Oh sooooooooooooo WOW.

Bless your hearts.

Thank me later.

Just sayin'.

Laffin'!

Hint.







Now as to the OP,a 2.8" Skinner smooch in a Ruger is a trite throat,but I'll always take that over Linda Lovelace. Knock the sights offa that thang and you are making gains.

Given some familiarity with the dismal flight characteristics of a 308,you'd certainly wanna pad POA/POI latitude and that is accomplished on a Ruger,via copious erector latitude(now that PosiLign rings are no longer offered for same). I'd be inclined to go Reupold 30mm rings and Pfhixxed Pfhuqq that bitch,while banking the 150MOA+ of latitude. Hint. Hell...I even hear good things about 'em in 6X and MOA/Mil or Mil/Mil wouldn't make a schit to me,though it's a theme of sorts,that lotsa blinkers react favorably to the Retro Mil Reticle,over the finer MQ...though dat's subjective. 5 Mils of Skinner wind subtension,will cover some real estate and some atmospherics. Hint.

If a guy ain't gunning crosshair intersection and sliding wind,he's missing more than a few boats.

I'd add pics,but it wouldn't be "fair".

Good talk.

Laffin'!

I love it when Stick is on R&R and can set things straight.

Nice talk!

The LRHS has been good, but I've only seen a few really used and therefore am hesitant to openly say they're as solid yet.

There are a few more options in scopes suitable for hunting, but there really aren't that many because the market isn't demanding it. Hunters think "glass" instead of whether the thing works as the responses in this thread reveal. No one would accept a vehicle anymore that only went 20k miles before major problems, yet they are lining up for POS scopes cause- "the interior".

Here is one of my $hitty 308s with even $hittier Mark 4 16x40 M1s that don't track. Built by George Gardner, cosmetics by Kampfeld.

Imagine how much I could shrink those 1.25" 500 yd groups if I had a decent scope on it. Laffin'.





It wore a SS for a spell, as the second set of M1s were being replaced:


My issue with the SS wasn't repeatability, but the absolutely HORRID turrets. One was audible, other wasn't. Both were as mushy as the worn M1s I was replacing. Kinda like Zeiss Conquest "target turrets". God they suck. I gotta assume they are better now, as I know Stick prefers M1s to all others, as do I, and anything else pales in comparison. Ain't noticed that he's bitched about the SWFA SS turrets. Even my NF NXS knobs are not as good as a crisp set of M1s IMO.....

Thanks Formidilosus..
By the time hunters start thinking beyond "glass" and demanding more robust variable scopes that track to perfection I'll be long gone..
I will probably just stick with the 6X42 for the times I need to dial long range..

Wow Box, you really like to type. The sights are there for a reason, and thanks for the input.
best to you, you F*kkin f*ck...and bless your heart.

Rgr-x

Weaver K4 4x38
Weaver K6 6x38
Leupold FXII 4x33
Leupold FXII 6x36
Leupold FXIII 6x42

Top choice is Leupold 3-9x40 Mark AR Mod 1 with green Firedot TMR reticle. I would say for $400 there isn't anything better out there. That is what I'm going to get for my .300H&H.

Seriously? The Mark AR has VX1 coatings and I bet VX1 glass too. For $400 you can get an optic that will smoke the VX1 and VX2 and comfortably edge out the VX3. You might not get the illumination but if you have to pick between glass quality and illumination, I'd go with glass first. I think you owe it to yourself to go compare scopes in low light situations. You may find that you'd rather be able to see your target rather than just see the illuminated dot inside a darkish circle. Or you may decide you have to have that fire dot. Look at them first, though.

What do you recommend. I want something where reticle isn't "lost" against cluttered background? Trijicon Accupoint is nice but so is $800+.

Try looking at a #4 ,#4a, or #1 reticle in scopes in your price range. Those reticles show up well in low light. Meopta Meopro is the first that comes to mind. Zeiss Conquests with the #4 can still be found.

As I cleared page two of this thread I had decided I was going to post at the end of page three: "This thread almost makes me yearn for the pontifications of Boxer". I come to page three and there it is. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it. Hello again Boxer my old friend.

I don't know what he'd recommend, but I agree with him that a Mark Ar isn't anything to write home about for $400. I had the one you mentioned, and sold it. The TMR reticle is coarse and not particularly usable (it's not even close to a real etched TMR you find in higher end Leupys) and the green dot is okay but nothing special.

If a guy is really wanting the illuminated dot in a scope, I'd add another $100 to that $400 and pick up a VXR. I have one in 3-9x40 and like the firedot duplex, which has a red dot that stands out better than the green, and the glass is a step up. And the VXR would altogether look nicer on a huntng rifle than the mark AR.

Well, not the one I'm using. Which ones can do that?

Ballistic AE will do it.

Yup!

kchunt smith,

R&R is a smidge away and gotta tend The Salt Mines for a spell.

VERY good call to skirt ALL things The rifle and to Whine instead.

Bless your heart.

Laffin'!










2much',

I haven't any "sponge" turrets in either Mil or MOA,regarding Fixed Pfhuqqers...though I'm still trying. Haven't many more than 20 of 'em thus far,so cain't speak to 'em like I can other Makes,which I've a bunch of.

The MK4 M1 16X offers a fair amount of "up" and I roll one on a Retrostalgic M40A1 Return in 22-250AI(Hart).



Drive a 16X MQ too and both are Fair Weather Giggle Glass and have ZERO aptitude as Utility Glass. Hint.

Leupold don't have an answer to the MQ reticle.



Have shot lotsa itty-bitty groups at 500yds and beyond,with a goodly smattering of glass.

For Utility,it's tough to trump a straight 10X.

But it's easy for me to say...I got 'em all.(grin)










Nrut,

You REALLY get after it. Laffin'!

You poor poor STUPID Clueless Pfhuqq.

Oh soooooooo Wow.

Hint.

Laffin'!









'1276,

It's a cryin' pfhuqqin' shame that you are too pfhuqqing STUPID,to savvy how far you are in over your pointy head and crossed-eyes. Congratulations?!?

I'll feign my "surprise" that you too,refrained ALL things The Rifle and went right to Whining as well. Bless your heart.

PLEASE keep telling yourself,that Stupidity is a "reason",rather than it's actuality being in fact a plight. Funny schit!

You'll wanna take notes and apply same.

Pfhuqqing hint.

Laffin'!










'72,

Every glass you cite,save the 6x42 is a steaming pile of schit.


Yessssss...I suffer them all.

Hint.

Laffin'!










Slavek,

Holy pfhuqqing schit,THAT scope "suggestion" as per your "experience","knowledge" and "results" is pfhuqqing funny! Say it again. Laffin'!

They don't track for schit. Hint.

Yessssssss...I've BT/DT and have the T-shirt. Have pics somewhere,of course.

REMEMBER,the middle is ALWAYS the middle.

Hint.

Thank me later.

Laffin'!











'ert,

Think erector quality,first. Hint.

Coatings/scmoatings.

Just sayin'.

Laffin'!










TBS,

I reckon I'm plum flattered,that you hang on my every word.

'Course you ain't the only one,nor close. Hint.

Keep taking notes.

Laffin'!










'pole,

You AMAZINGLY stupid pfhuqq,who chews your food for you?!? I'm crying I'm laughing soooooooo hard,as you are 100% at a TOTAL loss,while doing your best. WOW +P++!!!

Paper don't lie,nor is it "tricky". Run it out past max erector latitude,gun come-ups,denote deviation(s),extrapolate same into POA/POI correlation and then The Magic happens.

Hint.



Use whatever the pfuqq values you think" your pointy head can process.



Dump dope betwixt pokes,for Real World feedback. Re-hint.

1000+ MOA dumped betwixt pokes at the 100yd line,with a new batch of powder...for 3000 MOA ++++ total erector swing,during the fray. Hint.



[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/829/j5ki.jpg[/img]

PLEASE keep doing your "best" and "thinking" for yourself,because you reliably take oblivious humor to a whole new level. Congratulations?!?

20,21 and 22" versions.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/673/sUCbuf.jpg[/img]

Laffin'!

Here's hoping Stupid hurts.

Wow.

Good talk.

Re-laffin'!





(Addendum: For The Original Clueless Pfhuqq)

'1276,

Feel free to use as much Imagination and Pretend that it takes,to find me "mistaken" and sing it loud...you Drooling CLUELESS Pfhuqq. That'd be farrrr more than (2) dogs worth of dare.

Laffin'!

Again...I'll feign my "surprise",that you skirted ALL things The Rifle and went right to pfhuqqing Whining,as a means of obliviously quantifying your "best".

Bless your heart.

Do NOT let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt!

Hint.

Laffin'!

You are doing "great".

Wow +P+!!!


Re-hint of 1000 words.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/839/hy08.jpg[/img]


Just sayin'!

Boxy, you stupid F*kkin Chunt, another know it all little girl from Alaska that thinks you�ve done all and seen all, and don't know schidt..

Bless your heart and drive on.

Good post. Yeah, I bought the 16x40 M1 for specific purpose and "lotsa up" was the main reason.

Much as I love my Leupolds, for precision/LR $hit the M4 10X and 16X are the only 2 I truly trust. For general hunting, I have/use a $hit ton of them and they do just fine.

The only other scopes I run LR are NF NXSs.

I another thread, (which I was asked to not trash so respected the OPs wishes, I was asked about "tactical" scopes or what I thought "tactical" was. I know wtf tactical means and am not hung up on the term. Call it a target scope, precision LR scope, or whatever the f**K you want. Point being, it's about matching the scope to the rifle, and intended purpose. I like light. 20 oz. plus scopes on general hunting rifles do not horn me up. I wonder if some here even know what a well balanced/handling rifle is any more. If they want a NF NXS on a M7, whatever, not my cup of mud. On a heavy gun, I don't give a $hit. On a hunting rifle, the 4.5-14x40 with M1s is the heaviest $hit I've used(which is RARELY), or care to. It's not about looking out of place, but FEELING out of place.

I must admit, you have me a bit interested in the 6X or 10X SWFA SS. You are a he11 of a salesman brutha. Hopefully the turrets are better than the POS I had.

Be good..........

You think he is wrong?

I don�t know, it�s tough to decipher what the f*ck he�s running his suck about this time... Bless his heart.

He answered your question and aptly.

I�m glad you�re happy with his answer. I try to tune him out 99.9 % of the time.

Thank you very much. In my dream I turned #4 reticle upside down and went to check out scopes Big Stick likes and hello I found wonderful optic in form of SWFA SS 3-9x42mm with Mil-Quad reticle. The only downside is scope has 30mm tube and .50 cal suitability therefore there is that 19oz weight. Life is grand.

Smart move. No sense in reading the pea brained midget's garbage, or being a fanboy of that loser's asskissing club like some here are.

I had an older SS that was like that. I sent it back and got a new one. It is way more better.

You might wanna try another.



Travis

This may get me cyber-bullied but I have had very good luck with the two MK AR mod 1's I have. They have tracked very well. One has seen just under 1,000 rounds the other about 500.

If there is something wrong with the glass in low light, I don't know what it is. Mine are mil/mii.



Travis

There's really nothing to be gained by saying mean things about people.



Travis

You didn't jump on Stick for doing exactly the same thing...

Stick has helped me in the past and seems interested in helping anyone who asks him an honest question. He has a lot of experience and does have something to add to the discussion, IMO. His delivery and social skills could stand some polishing...

JG has the right to express himself and to call out whom he may call out...

DF

You might want to add a little humor to your coffee this morning.




Travis

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!!









And for what its worth rgrx1276 HAS btdt. If you want to talk to a man with experience you can skim right over stick and go to him.

Blow me

I see someone else needs a little sunshine in their coffee too.....

How's that...

DF

Mine has been UBER.

Much better.



Travis

Mine too.

I'll probably try the 6X SS next season though.



Travis

I crap sunshine.

When you can fart rainbows, get back to me....

Tried it first but didn't like it on the CZ.

Bob can, from what I've been told.

I'd like to try a 6x42SS but I just can't find the need for an over 1 1/2 pound 30mm scope.

If I did much of my hunting from my belly in wide open spaces it would be different.

Boxer: Many thanks for the time and effort you put into your reply. Wow, photos and everything!!

It's great to have someone out there who cares as much as you do, and takes the time to show it.

You're a printh.

Ah the optics forum...its like the smell of napalm in the morning.

Yeah, that sweet aroma of stuff burning...

DF

Just give up hunting, the weight is of no concern of you do all your shooting from the bench. More time to post on the interwebs that way too

He can.


Theres not much Bob can't do......he reminds me of....me!

Lil Fish,

Well this will be the third year you were going to get us some footage. Pretty safe bet more has been said than will be done but here's hoping you actually follow through. I am rooting for you.

Just to prime the pump. 1080p HD if you have the bandwidth.

Note the 2.5-8.

Kchuntfest 2014 continues and '1276 is knocking it out of the Park,by doing her best. FUNNY schit!

Though she's more than a touch nervous,to muse ANYTHING in regard to The Rifle.

I wonder why?!?

Laughing!..................










2much',

I've much faith in all my MK4 6x,10x and 16x fixed glass.

Not tough to embrace 150+ MOA of erector travel on a RAR,Montucky or anything else ala S/S.

I've seen me contribute to more than a few Sales and I'm more than a touch good for the Economy...................(grin)










Slav',

Fixed is where it's at.

Hint...............










'Raider,

I'll feign my "surprise",that you went wayyyyyyyyy outta your way to refrain ALL things The Rifle,as per your always.

It is funnier than pfhuqq,that even a Clueless Drooling Dumbpfhuqq such as yourself,KNOWS better than to even try to barter her "experience","knowledge" and "results"! Bless your heart,you amazingly inept Day Dreaming Dumbpfhuqq.

Mebbe extoll a Barbed-wire Load?!?

Laughing!...................










'flave,

You might just talk me into trying a Fixed Pfhuqqer too..................










'farmer,

Purty mean of you,to bait a hook in sucha fashion...but I like how you roll.

Laughing!...................










'gwe,

Stupid pfhuqqing '1276 didn't want Reality,she instead craved the Fantasy that her Drooling Dumbpfhuqqery was gonna be embraced as good "thinking".

She was close...give or take.

Laughing!.......................










SLM,

Have gunned several on 100yd paper,throughout their erector range and it were dismal. That with windage centered and aboard rather sound platforms.
Understatement.

Best bet is to tape the zoom in place and gun subtension instead..................










'head,

I hear good thangs about 6x glass at spittin' distances and once one flogs on 150+ MOA of travel,it's tough to go back.

'Course I got 'em all.

Hint................










'pole,

Ain't it a fascinating constant how you reliably get in over your head,obliviously expound upon your sheer and utter pfhuqqing cluelessness,then default to straight up Whining?!? Bless your heart.

You "hard chargers" are a pfhuqqing riot and you really shoot the place up.

Laughing!...............










Jim',

It'e never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't....................(grin)











'303,

I'd submit that a Montucky wearing a 6X MQ,is farrrrrrr lighter than most offerings and farrrrrrrrr from being "daunting" in it's "mass".(grin)

Nice to be able to play in the wind and the like,at 1400yds+++ with a SAAMI 223..............










'Burns,

It's your Imagination,Pretend with it however you please.

Looking forward to the next batch of Whining and fresh Excuses,as you are thrown out on your ass from yet another Company,as you feverishly try to peddle Snake Oil to the unknowing.

Say something "proprietary",you AMAZINGLY stupid pfhuqq.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!....................

Lil Fish,

I pretended to get a decent bull this year. Does that count??



You having to use different accounts to post because you act like a 3 year old is flat freaking hilarious. Grow up and act like an adult and Rick will let you post more than once a day.

Yeah the least I'd give a rats about a spy glass that can dial like a razor and prove itself with lots of up and down all day long is nuther half or a pound sheeit throw some bacon on there too I don't care. sigh.. but the good people what make the fixed fuqqaers don't let them in to this part of the claim. They did when they first came out but no more and they're about like gold for a used one. Hey, their money not mine don't think they export at all now. Still pizzes me off. Slummin it with a Sightron on my 223.

Hey Burns, do a little search and check my prediction of just how long you would continue to sponsor custom rifles forum. Pretty fu**cking spot on wasn't it?. Put Nostradamus to shame.

Still selling cookie cutter rifle patterns requiring zero load development to dumbfu**cks and charging for same? The kind I've been building for 1/4 of the price for 20+ years now?

Nice bull. Almost as much bull as the $hit you peddle, but not quite.

How many ranches have you and your Best of the Rest buddies been kicked off for wounding animals since we last talked?

Yesterday, for the first time EVER, I visited your website. Still laffin'.

Truth is, I could have some respect for you, and your hunting/shooting abilities, under different circumstances. If I didn't know for a fact that you and your (ex?)fu*ktard buddies wounded untold game to get "the one" on film to promote your over-priced "turn-key", "proprietary" bull$hit. And further "promoting" LR hunting by selling "turnkey" rifles to those who can't hit the broad side of a barn @ 50 yards.

Quite honestly, I'm not quite sure to applaud or deplore you for taking advantage of those ignorant to all things "rifle"......

Ah the bravery of the anonymous internet poster.

LOL!

Missed this, but most all of them do it. Its called the "elevation correction factor"..its in the area where you set up your profile.

I use shooter,AE and applied ballistics.

Thanks rosco. I got Applied Ballistics about a week ago, finally went on their website and saw how to do that. Now I need to figure out how to download and print a range card.

Edited to add: it's easy.

You hunted with Jerry Seinfeld?

Seinfeld has way more people saying he looks like me. I started the whole "look".

You look like someone who just jumped over the border fence there John.......or was it Jose before.............lol

I'll take one! Shoot me a PM.... I'd love to pick up a full custom rig, with a Leupold 4.5-14 atop..... for your advertised $1250.

My last SS fixed Fhugker just went out the door last week. After packing it for about 100 miles in the past couple months.... I've realized that extra 10oz don't do me any good..... outside the occasional fun session banging steel. I've gone back to 3-9s and 3.5-10s wearing TTs or the older 1/2 MOA click turrets. I've lost a little performance at 600+.... but that's ok, I'm more likely to be where I need to be with a rifle in hand without the extra weight/bulk.

I know a pretty reputable guy who's had a Leupold go tits-up this week..... we'll see how that pans out. I know another far less reputable guy who thinks his Leupold is tracking schitty..... we'll see on that one too. I've never had a bad one, unless I dropped it/fell on it.....

I wish i had better luck with them..Sure would make things much simpler.

I cannot tell a lie. Had 2 (yep, two) Leupolds take schits this week that were on hunting rifles....

First was a VX3 4.5-14 LR 40mm CDS with a custom TMR. First shot at 100 after dialing down from 600 (returning to zero) was the upper right impact, then the next four "grouped"....





Checked zero on my .264 WM with a 6.5-20 Mark 4 LR ERT M5 TMR. It was all over the place. Figured either the scope took a schit or the barrel was toast....

100 yard group...



Threw on a proven 8.5-25 Mark 4 and shot it. Same ammo and rifle...





Customer service will get a workout this next week.

My 4.5-14x40LR with custom TMR was awesome..Till that happened. I sold it here on the classifieds after Leup tuned it up.

I honestly wish they would get their schit together..I know any and all scopes can go down, but i've had some seriously crap luck with Leupold.

Even the 4.5-14x50LR that has been steller in the tracking department, is in the mail right now for the SF, second time on that one.

[quote=JohnBurns
Seinfeld has way more people saying he looks like me. I started the whole "look".[/quote]

Niice No.1....

To the OP, my Ruger 308 has a 2-7X33 with LRD, but I'm going back to a 6X36.

Yep, that'd be me, and I'm even less reputable than you give me credit for. The scope tracks pretty well with the dope RC gave me, but even better if I use the G1 drag curve and my chronoed MV on Applied Ballistics, go figure.

You're right about Leupold scopes never failing though. That must be why I'm always reading about how good their customer service is for repairing scopes. Like they did with mine a few years ago--they were prompt, courteous, and by God fixed that scope.

RC

Do you go passed your zero 4-5 clicks then come back to it?

Try to clear out any backlash in the adjustment...

Mike

Always

Figured so just hate to see that much slop! Obviously something moved/settled after the 1st shot.

Mike

A scope that needs "backlash" taken out is broke and eventually will start showing other issues.

RC, appreciate you reporting the failure.

Hey, I knew the haters would be salivating over the report. I also knew others would be interested.

It's a first for me. Both scopes are relatively new; maybe a couple hundred rounds under each. Any scope I broke in the past has been on a target rifle that got lots of use.

Anything I've sent in for repair comes back better than it was new. Why? I don't know.

I've done well with Leupold and am sure they'll be repaired and hold up well, but the experience definitely makes me reevaluate things.

The whole reason I reported was to make formy feel better.

That's ok. I pulled a rifle out last week and said- hmmmm. That don't look right.





How in the flip a lens cracked I don't know. That's actually my only Leupold variable that hasn't had major problems. Oh well, off to Leupold.