I still have the first rifle I ever bought, a Remington 700 BDL that I bought mail order from Sears in 1967. I shot it a couple years with open sights before I could afford a cheap Universal 3-9, that I used until it fogged up in 1992. Then I put a Leupold VX2 3-9 which is still a fine scope, but after borrowing my buddies early 70s Weaver K8-1, I thought I might go with something similar to keep it period correct. Of my four rifles my favorite scope is the Balvar 2 1/2 - 8 that came on my Burgess 98. Scope and rifle are 1964 vintage, but since my 700 already has Leupold bases and rings I don't want to hassle with the external adjustable mount required of the Balvar.

So my criteria are 1) internal adjustments. 2) Fixed four or six power. 3)Period correct for a 60's rifle. 4) Good optics and overall quality for then. 5) Looks good on a rifle.

I have a Lyman All American fixed four, it is fine optically, but the black has worn off the aluminum tube and it looks a little ratty. My buddies Weaver is clean and classy looking with that blued steel tube. Did B & L make any internal adjusted scopes back in the day? I love my Balvar. So between Redfield, Weaver, Lyman and Leupold what was best? It will be fum to ebay shop a bit.

Thanks,

John

Lyman Permacenter 6x with fine crosshairs and dot..I still use and like mine..It gets it done..

Santiam is right on the money. I have one of those scopes, only with AO, and it's just a great, high quality, optical device.

This one's for sale.
Weaver V4.5-IIW USA MicroTrac widefield gloss duplex in great shape. Works good.
$110 shipped

GlacierJohn: We are talking about the time period when I first began using scopes on my Rifles.
I would go with the Leupold Pioneer which is that vintages 4 power scope.
I have foolishly sold all my Pioneers but still have 3 of the Leupold Westerners which are of the same period but are fixed 8 power scopes with adjustable objectives.
Best of luck in your quest.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Kollmorgan Bear Cub?

John, you don't say what the rifle is chambered for... that's a bit of minutia very important to rifle loonies in determining the EXACT scope to recommend.

For me, I'd put a Weaver on top... they're my favorites. A 4X or 6x, but definitely NOT a variable.

I've got a Redfield 6x. I can post pics if your interested. Price----$100 shipped via US Post Office.

It's a .270. It's a very accurate rifle but I've only used it once or twice in the last 20 years. I have another .270 Kimber BGR89 Super America that I like better. I also built up a .257 Roberts on a 700 action that I put a fixed Leupold six that will be my east of the mountains rifle. I'm leaning toward four power since I hunt a lot of timber out here in NW Montana. It's not that thick but I haven't shot a deer over 100 yards in years.

^^^^^^ This. An old school El Paso Weaver would be the only way to travel for me.

Thanks for the scope for sale offers, I will definitely consider them, but for right now with hunting season past, and the holidays upon us, this is an exploratory mission in trying to narrow down a consensus best quality 60s scope.

Weaver is making anniversary model K4s that would be both period correct and Brand new....

That's interesting. The bluing from those days is great,
and how about the coatings, I do hope they will be upgraded
to current fully multi-coated specs.
Let us know, if you have more on these.

Maybe a bit newer than you're looking for but we've got a couple of Bushnell Scopechief's that we bought in the 70's. They still look good and work just fine, my dad hunted nearly every day of the Pa. deer season that just closed with his.

Dale

What Wyoming said, or get a new fixed 4, 6, or 8 Leupold. I see nothing wrong with modern glass on old favorites.

Best wishes,

Jack

Same scope as a new Classic K4 only in a blued steel tube for twice the $$$...

Search for Kollmorgen riflescopes.

I don't have one as I wrote here! I have edited this post.

The scope I have is an old Redfield Bear Cub made by them in Denver. It looks good on an old M70 Featherweight in Buehler mounts.

The Lyman Permacenters are excellent scopes with clear, sharp optics. A 4X or 6X would work well on your .270; make sure you get a later one with the Permacenter reticle. Here's a couple.
Bob

4X on a Win 70:


6X on a Rem 700:

How about a Weaver K3

You might be right maybe I should just leave well enough alone. Here's the rifle with the 1993 vintage (I bought it new and mounted it then) Leupold VX II 3-9, it looks fine.


Actually it doesn't too big in front, and too modern.

Weatherby Imperials. Made in Germany.

Nothing wrong with that!

Best is an indeterminate quality but for my 2 cents I would try to find a Weaver K-4 or K-6 in good condition with nice bluing.
Some of the others mentioned may have slightly better optics but there are probably more old K model Weavers still in use than all of the others put together. Something about them just looks right. Plus, they have click adjustments that tracked well something that not all scopes of that era did.

drover

Kahles Super Helia 4x and 6x are really nice scopes and are from the 60's.

Now you got me fixated on fixed power scopes.
From another recent topic on scopes, fixed scopes seem to be less problematic and trouble free than variables.
The Fire is a great place to learn - Thanks!

Perhaps you meant to write: 'More trouble free.'?

Over the last 60 years of using riflescopes for hunting the only one to have a problem was a 4X Lyman All American that filled with water after a day in the rain.

It seems from this thread that there is no one standout amongst the popular scopes of the sixties. Those that have owned or still own a Lyman, Weaver or whatever and have had good luck with them, like them the best. I have had great luck with a mid sixties B&L Balvar for the past 22 years, I love the tapered cross hairs, good clear optics and general good looks. Like I said I have a perfectly usable Leupold on the rifle right now, and would have not even thought about a retro scope if I hadn't picked up my buddies Weaver K-6.

This thread has been fun though as I spent a lot of time shifting through ebay looking at a lot of old Weavers, Kollmorgan, Lymans and B&L's. They all look great to me and really the price isn't killer high, so it might be fun just to buy something and try it out.

Thanks,
John

If the choices were opened up to include European-made scopes there'd be options like the Nickel Supra, Pecar, Zeiss, Hensoldt etc, as well as the already mentioned Weatherby Imperial (made by Hertel & Reuss)and Helia. I've used several of these, as well as older Leupolds and steel-tube Weavers, and I think I'd give the European scopes of that vintage the edge, given the same condition, especially over the Weaver (a decent scope of the time, but mid-level not premium)

So, is there a consensus best American made scope of that era? Bausch and Lomb?

This is what I would do. A modern Fully Multicoated Click Adjustable Blued Steel Scope.

If I had to go back to using El Paso K4 and K6s I'd probably just shoot irons.

I shoot iron sights, old and new scopes, good vintage optics are way closer to new scopes than any open sight. For sure modern multicoated glass is way better, but good vintage scopes in good or restored condition is more than adequate for 95% of any hunting scenario.

I have an old steel Weaver K4 bought about 1968 and an early 60's vintage Pecar 4X. The Pecar is much superior optically to the K4. The only problem with the Pecar is that the reticle is non-centering while the K4 is.

I love the view through the Pecar but even with Burris Signature rings with inserts; I can't get the reticle centered on the rifle I'd like it on as the holes on the rifle seem to be incorrectly drilled. (Pecars are 26mm diameter but the Burris Signatures fit.)

p.s. the Pecar, Burris Signature rings with two full sets of inserts along with some other vintage scopes and newer Talley mounts will be for sale on the classified ads after Christmas.

I'm an unabashed Weaver slut when it comes to old scopes. My old 99 wears a K-4 as do so many others. Lots of very good old scopes have been mentioned here, but the iconic K-4 will always get my vote in this race.

I've got to agree with you gopher. I still have several old K-4 and K-6 scopes that have served me well and I don't hesitate to take them hunting. I also like my old B&L scopes, though I have had one that the seals gave up on, probably from to much Hoppes No. 9 vapors.

I never had 50`s or 60`s Weaver that did not fog!!!

I'll put in a plug for the old bushnell scopes from Japan. Mine are probably mid 70s to early 80s vintage but I have three one sport view, a banner and a scope chief, all fixed 4s. All of them work as well as they did when new and have never given any trouble. The scopechief is probably going back into service on a Sears 51L I just acquired. The sport view is on my old moss erg 22 mag.

Can any of you old timers tell me anything about the first of the Japanese Bausch and Lomb scopes, late 60s early 70s? I think these were the first internal adjustable B and L scopes.

How about a Leupold 6x Mountaineer I picked it up in a trade a number of years ago. I put it on an old Rem 722 for an egg shoot that I wanted to use something old at, tied for first. Pretty clear scope.

I have no idea date range but I always thought the Unertal Hawk/falcon was cool

I've been very pleased with the performance of both leupold and steel tube weavers over the last 30 years. Since this is an "ain't it cool" purchase, I'd go K6 with a duplex reticle. That blued steel tube looks so sweet.

"Best of the 60s vintage fixed power fours or sixes?"

..pretty easy to answer that one. It's the ones that are still working and in service!

I.E. Weaver, Leupold, Redfield, Stith, Lyman, Norman Ford, Pecar, Kahles, Japanese optics like older Tasco/Bushnell.

Several great USA makers were out there from the 40's to the 80's.. It's a shame there are so few here now.

I favor the old Weavers/Redfields/Leupolds, although I have something from most of the makers mentioned above, and a few more..

my .02
dave

This one.

What is that one, I like it

An old Weaver that came on the 1948 FN .270 I bought last summer. Plain crosshair.

I ran across the FN right after a spirited discussion here on how FN actions made after 1949 or so were too hard and had H collars and in general were likely to bring me to a bad end. In order to preserve my lovely complexion and enjoy a long, full, life, I naturally had to buy the first '48 I saw.

This one is in the classifieds right now. I had one of these a few years ago and it was the clearest, sharpest hunting scope I have ever looked through.


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../1/Bausch_and_Lomb_Balfor_4x_long#UNREAD

You're a good salesman Drover. I was on the fence with this early generation Japanese scope. I sent a pm to the seller and am buying that scope.