Title says it all, I want an MOA elevation turret, and an MOA reticle that will allow me to hold elevation, and shoot out to 800 yds.

I have an SWFA 10x42 Milquad reticle that I like .Might want to go to SWFA site and see what they have.
BTW Mine cost $300.00 or so plus shipping !

Nothing wrong with MOA but you are ruling out some really fine choices with that restriction. If you do insist on MOA, I'd be looking at one of the new Bushnell LRHSs

John

Look into the Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50 with M1 turrets, and the TS-32X1 reticle, that should make a great match for what you are looking for, and depending on your cartridge, you probably wouldn't even need a 10, 15, or 20 MOA rail to get to 800 or even 1000 yds.

Are you holding or indexing for wind?

Your doing it wrong at 800yds.

Dial elevation and hold wind.

Backwards, and mil will get you there at least as well.

No, that's "your" way of doing it. Just because it's not "your" way, doesn't make it wrong. If you don't have something constructive to add, zip it!

If I want to hold both, I can, and if a quick shot presents itself, without time to dial, I can hold it as well.



I didn't ask for mil though, did I?

Slickyboy, thanks, I will look into the Leupy, sounds like you were the only one that could comprehend English correctly.

308, if you all ready know everything, why are you asking questions.

Mil Dots are not friendly for long range windshield holds. 4ager was attempting to feed you some very sound advise, and you pissed on his hand.

Way to be a FNG. You're awesome.

Whats an FNG?.........lol.......Hb

Really.. F#^% new guy.....

It's early, I know you knew that.

9 posts is all it took. GFY go elsewhere

Assuming you are going to hold for wind, it sounds like a regular MOA version of a mil-dot style reticle with only hash marks on the vertical and horizontal crosshairs will not work well. You probably need a Horus style or at least a B&C-type reticle. I was going to suggest the NF SVH 2-10x42 with MOAR, but you probably would want something more along the lines of their velocity reticle, which is not available in that scope. Maybe a used NXS-Compact?

Not very friendly right out of the gate, but hey, time will tell.

If he knows it all why even bother posting on the subject and then insulting a few people that responded? Do not get that

Rouge and Oldelkhunter,

Never said I knew everything, and don't claim to, however, my question was specifics about scopes that have certain atributes, and the best one in their price range. I don't believe my question was "I am doing everything wrong because its not the way you do it, so why don't you tell me how you do it, because it is the correct and only way?" Because that was dang sure the answer I got from JohnBurns and 4ager.

You might do yourself some good by listening to what Mr. Burns has to say.

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-6-riflescopes/vx-6-3-18x44mm-30mm-side-focus-cds/

Or call and ask what scopes they'll put their TMOA reticle in.

That reticle combined with M1's would probably be ideal for what you are trying to do.



Travis

Here's a hint:

You're going to be more accurate and more effective DIALING distance and HOLDING windage, than the reverse. If you can dial both, great, but windage is subject to change far more and far faster than distance, to holding and making slight adjustments there per the conditions is often a better option than constantly dialing and tweaking when the conditions change slightly. Holding distance when you can dial it is just not as accurate.

Also, mil is going to give you just as good a system as does MOA, so don't limit yourself to just one if by chance the "best" you're looking at or for is only offered in mils.

But, you obviously know everything at this point so offering advice is pointless.

VX-6 2-12. They now have a new horizontal reticle for windage and of course, the CDS for elevation. I think you can get an MOA CDS.

So, that's twist for elevation, hold for windage, like someone posted earlier...

DF

Quote me as to when I've ever said anything about DIALING windage? And again, I've never claimed to know everything.

It's always a hoot when guys ask questions then argue with the answers......lol.

the Bushnell LRHS is your huckleberry, whether you realize it or not

I agree, because only 2 have given any kind of answer that has to do with the original question.

OP's original post needed some tweaking, as in "MOA elevation turret, and an MOA reticle".

MOA turret with windage reticle makes a lot more sense than what he asked for.

I stick by my suggestion of a VX-6 2-12, CDS MOA turret with the new windage reticle. He can get one within the stated budget if he shops around. IMO, it will be hard to do better in that price range.

DF

Might be because your original question was FUBAR and folks were trying to offer advice without calling you a dumbass.

I doubt that will happen again, as advice bounces off and the dumbass part seems a given.

There's nothing FUBAR at all about my original post, I asked exactly what I intended to. The only dumbasses are the ones that tried to read something else into it!

Pick up a Viper PST 2.5-10x32 with MOA turrets and reticle.

OR....if you can manage to go into it with an open mind, the Bushnell LRHS is where you want to be within that price range. It's in Mils. Having said that, if you haven't tried Mils, you really should. I've heard of plenty of people converting from MOA to Mils after trying both, but very, very few people going the other direction...

I promise, I'm plenty open minded. Serious question: what is the advantage of Mils vs MOA?

Nice even numbers and factors of 10.

Using MOA to measure group size and scope tracking, you're looking at 1.047" at 100 yards. Not so easy to use that factor in the field. So, say you're testing your scope for tracking and click adjustment values, and you decide to set up a target at 100 yards. Your paper target has a 1" grid system. You dial up 8 MOA, and expect to see a POI shift of how many inches? 8.376". Better bring your dial caliper with you, or else set up the target at 95.51 yards to make each MOA adjustment an even 1". In contrast, using Mils you would set up the target at 100 meters, and each 0.1 Mil adjustment would move the POI by 1 cm, which can easily be used in a grid pattern when you print your targets. So you dial 1 Mil, and you expect to see a POI shift of exactly 10 cm. Nice even number.

Factors of 10- when dialing your elevation turret, with MOA you are typically working with 0.25 or 0.125 MOA clicks. Additionally, MOA turrets usually have 15 or 25 MOA per revolution. Suppose you spot a nice buck at whatever distance you like (that requires dialing your elevation turret), and your dope sheet says you need 16.8 MOA elevation correction. You think to yourself "okay, so I need to dial one complete revolution, which gives me 15 MOA, then an extra 1 MOA, then an extra 3 clicks, which gets me to 16.75 MOA. That's as close to 16.8 MOA as I can get." Each click is a quarter of an MOA, which you have to reconcile in your head. Now with Mils, each click is 0.1 Mil, and Mil turrets usually have 5 or 10 Mils per revolution. This is much easier and more intuitive for your brain to work with. You need 0.4 Mils, that's 4 clicks. Need 5.6 Mils, dial the turret to the "5", and then 6 more clicks. How about 21.2 Mils? Using a 10 Mil per revolution turret, we spin 2 complete revolutions for 20 Mil, and another 1 Mil and 2 clicks. We are trained to work with factors of 10 because of the number system that we have in place- money, decimals, percentage, nearly everything we learn to use in society with regards to numbers, deals in factors of 10. So naturally, it's more intuitive for us to think in increments of 0.1, 1, and 10, than 0.25, 1, and 15. If you think about it, what's easier and quicker for you to remember, figure, and dial into your scope, 34.6 MOA, or 10.1 Mils? Smaller numbers are usually easier to remember and process.

In fairness, I have and use LR scopes with both Mil and MOA turrets/reticles. Both work equally effectively, but the Mil system requires less mental processing power to work with, and subsequently takes slightly less time between spotting the target and getting a corrected shot off.

If you have a MOA dial installed, all you have to do is print out a drop chart from JBM or the like and have separate columns show MOA and inches. It ain't very hard. That takes about zero mental processing when you're trying to kill something.

check out the Vortex Viper HS:LR. The SFP have a BDC reticle and the FFP have a grid based reticle. the 2.5-10 FFP was discontinued. They were going for aroudn $550 shipped if you can find one in stock.

Some of you guys amaze me. Lots of posts means nothing and I can prove my case from this forum. On the other hand, some guys with lots of posts are really in the know and they came through in this thread.

Just because op is a newbie, doesn't automatically make him dumb either. Maybe he did not frame his question accurately, but he came through.

I'm far from a know it all, but I have a lifetime of guns and hunting successfully behind me and I never knew this place existed until I was 70. BTW, I'm still learning. Thanks JS for the best comparison I ever read on MIL / MOA. Thanks JG, DF and others who were really trying to help the new guy.

Jack

As the previous post stated, JohnBurns, thanks for the explaination of MIL vs MOA, makes total sense. You may have just changed my mind as to which direction to go with my scope.

For the super dumb and simple minded, a yardage turret set up for the load being used isn't a bad option...

It's sorta the Spec. Ed./Short Bus version of the ballistic puzzle...

DF

John Burns didn't answer schit! Jordan Smith did.

He's one of two reasons we haven't destroyed Canaduh.



Travis

Whiskey must be the other....

Not all that bad.

Canadian whiskey is not good enough to save them.

This allows one to forget all the math!

Mathman, I'm 7 months into deployment, couldn't be too picky.

Those morons can't make whiskey.

Dwayne is reason #2.

(Not a schit joke)



Travis

Non-FUBAR question:



Non-FUBAR answer:



Amazing, eh?

There were several people pointing you in this direction, and once you dropped the defensive dumbass-itude and ASKED what the difference/advantages were and why folks were making that recommendation, you got a specific answer.

Of course, it took how many times to get you to understand that people were trying to give you good advice from the get-go?

Where I hunt, it's not too uncommon to be in a situation where you "gotta shoot or get off the pot". No time to start looking at cheat sheets or doing math problems...

Sometimes it pays to be dumb...

DF

This. I have this exact set-up.

There is more than one right answer. If you don't plan on changing loads, custom yardage dial is as quick as ranging the distance and holding for windage. Up and down is easy. Left and right is voodoo.

OP, if you will be civil and check your 'tude, there is a wealth of knowledge here from most of these guys.

LOL, you couldn't even if you wanted to!

There are Muslims living here.....Obama would never allow it.

I was referring to American citizens.



Travis

The way you phrased your question still has me wondering what you are asking- no wonder you are getting some many different pieces of advice. I do think 800 yards is too far to "hold" by the time you get that far, especially with rifle that isn't particularly flat, any little difference in distance means something.

4ager, you said the man was a dumbass in part because he wants to dial windage.

I haven't read anywhere in this thread where the man made any such remark.(Dumbass)

Shod

The man was asking about a scope with a reticle that would facilitate 800 yds without dialing. There are plenty of reticles that do just that. A Zeiss scope with the RZ8 reticle would be one example.

Shod

I didn't get that from his question.

Shod

What's y'all's thoughts on the Leupold Mark 4 ER/T 4.5-14x50mm FFP M5?

I have had this exact scope with both the Mil-dot and TMR reticles...neither works at all for hunting. Once that sun starts to set the reticle becomes unusable in the field (too thin)...and they don't offer illumination with the M5 turrets. It is also overpriced for the glass quality - it certainly is not extra low dispersion glass and looses contrast in poor lighting.