I'm so torn between buying a spotting scope or high power binos.

I have an ok pair of cabelas brand 8x binos that I'm pretty happy with. And was planning on upgrading them to vortex viper hd 10x binos. But in all reality my 8x cabelas work wonderful for quick glassing and spotting game.

I want something that I can spend time behind and really pick apart the hillsides now.

I'm looking at Vortex viper hd binos or spotter. 15x50 binos or 15-45x65 spotter.
I've looked through both in the store. And in the store looking at deer on the wall. Through the binos the deer appear very detailed and quite large. The spotting scope needs to be on 30x in order for the deer to be equal size. Detail is similar at any power in the spotting scope...just the size of the object looks way smaller. Given its only 100 yards or so across the store at very best.
In the field I have a pretty good line up of areas I hunt. And most distances I typically sit and glass are 300-1500 yards. With 80% of that falling in the 500-700 yard range. I typically stay away from glassing farther than 700 yards so I don't tempt myself into shots I'm not comfortable with.

I'm interested in the viper hd 15x50 binos due to them being light weight and I can still easily free hand them and carry them around my neck. But ultimately I will be using a tripod.

I'm curious at longer distance 1000-2000 yards will deer still appear small through the spotter as they do at 100ish yards.

What would the best route be give my brief hunting description.

Going back and forth myself, I believe you'll be served very well with the 8x that you own, and a pair of 15x binos. For glassing all day, you'll be more comfortable with the binos vs spotter. In the end, the spotter might be better at judging the quality of deer, but the 15x will be better at seeing more deer.

I have a pair of 8x also, and will be buying a pair of 15x when I get the cash once again. I have owned both 15x and spotting scopes. The 8x and 15x will be my final setup. I tried to like using spotting scopes, but didn't enjoy the ease of use of the 15x and didn't feel like I miss much by not having a spotting scope. Just my 2 cents.

Clearly you have not spent a lot of time glassing for game... There is no contest between what can be spotted with a scope versus a binocular. It is all about being able to spend the time it takes to really search the mountain.

Idahopro (a Vortex management guy) showed me how to actually do it right a year ago on Kodiak. He sat for hour after hour dissecting the mountainside, tiny increment by tiny increment. He had all sorts of options, but the spotter was the thing, period.

Glasses are good enough for quick surveys, but the real work sphere belongs to spotters. We saw 66 Kodiak bears in a long week and it is safe to assume he spotted the vast majority. Very few have done that to me...

I've spent countless hours behind my 8x binos. All i do the last 4 seasons is hunting high mountain sitting glassing.

I've had maybe 30 minutes of total spotting scope glassing with a very low quality simmons spotter. So no experience to compare.

If I did I wouldn't be asking which was the better route.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8930755/1

Not to be a jerk, but after decades of sitting on my ass and looking with all sorts of optics I have a pretty good idea what I am looking for.

Art, what spotter(s) are you using currently?

Sitka, unless I have been totally mislead, which happens, ...

Does not Pauls success in spotting through 12x45 binocs over you with the spotter lend credability to the OPs question?

Thanks for the detailed account.

Not to disparage Art's opinion or experience at all but I see things a bit differently at least where and how I hunt.

My process is simple. I have the best optics I can justify but only three, an 8x45 Zeiss T RF, a Leica 15x56, and a Zeiss spotter. The spotter, for me, is to evaluate further that which I've already found with the other two.

I find it much easier for my eyes and comfort to sit behind the 15's for hours than a spotter for thirty minutes.

At least that's the view from here.😉

It's no secret that you can glass much longer through a good pair of binoculars than you can one-eyed through a spotting scope. It's not even close, comfort wise, as I've been doing it for years myself, with 10x42's on a tripod, and very high grade spotters. This class of spotter has no equal when evaluating game, but not so much for finding it, IME.

Save weight and clumsy spotters and a tripod and get 32mm Switch Power binoculars. Seven to twelve X. Superior!

"Not to be a jerk, but after decades of sitting on my ass and looking with all sorts of optics I have a pretty good idea what I am looking for"-Sitka deer
_________________________





So you've been sitting on your ass for decades and last year a company exec "shows you how to do it right??? That's impressive. No offense, but a bear doesn't hold a candle to say, a coues deer.

Binos on a tripod to find them, spotter to judge them. Wait for the AZ boys to show up,
They'll steer you right.

Another vote for 15X on a tripod.

+1



+1

If judgement is completely out the window. Then binos are the no Brain choice it seems. I'm only looking to find animals

I'm hunting western Washington blacktail. And I've never shot anything bigger than a 2pt. Basically if it's legal its dead.

I've asked a few guides and hunters I hold in high esteem this exact question a couple times over the last week... and the consensus vote is 15's dominate a spotter for finding game... even smaller stuff at extended range (say deer at 2-3 miles).

Simply sticking your existing bino on a tripod is like adding 2-3x to the magnification. I hadn't realized how good my Michael J. Fox impression was until I set my glasses on the tripod and saw what a stable image looked like.

My question has evolved into 12x Mid-sized alpha binos vs. 15x "big eyes". I suppose if you were a serious "trophy hunter" or guide, and needed to judge between 28" and 30" to keep happy... then a spotter might be necessary. Me, I don't give a rip... if it looks like a big deer in the binocs... it'll look plenty big on my wall.

Here's an additional question to enhance the OP's....

If you wanted an all-around glass for spotting/observing game in a hunting environment (from "bean fields and senderos" to the "back country").... would you choose a spotter or a binoc? Say a $1500 budget... what would you chose?

My opinion , this would depend on the quality of the Bino and the Spotting Scope of which to buy.

A used Leica Duovid, with tripod.

I have a number of spotters including the Vortex Razor 11-33x50, which is a surprisingly good glass and seems to perform, to most eyes, way better than it should. Last December I spotted a Coues in AZ at considerable distance and described the antlers very precisely at far greater distance than I would have considered possible.

The guy beside me using the huge Swaro glasses and spotter was not sure about my description. When we got closer it was obvious my description was right on... and it was not much bone...

I also have bigger and smaller but for the OPs use I would consider it a great compromise for weight, size, and money.

I did say that about as backward as possible, didn't I? I was in a hurry and failed to go where I intended...

Both are key...

I have done a lot more than most and I doubt many could run close to what Paul did. I have also hunted Coues enough to know they do not hold a candle to bears for spotting difficulty at times. They are very much like bears in that they can disappear in an invisible wrinkle and never be seen again. They do not stand out any more or less and bears are not nearly as predictable.

Most brown bear glassing distances are every bit as far as the longest Coues glassing distances and the weather can be sporty and far worse than mirage. The first mile to two are across water where Paul and I were glassing.

Paul may be "just" a company exec as you think of it, but his hunting and guiding experience is what got him there and he still gets to get out and hunt a lot. I have hunted with hundreds of folks as guide and hunter and the notion Paul has to take a back seat to any of them is funny.

I have looked through the razor 11-33x50 side by side with the viper hd 15-45x65. And the razor definitely did not work to well for me. Granted that was in a store.

To one of my main concerns. Viewing game at 1000 yards. Will the animals be bigger through the binos or spotting scope.
In cabelas the other day. The deer on the wall at 100 yards we're much larger through the 15x binos. The spotting scope needed to be on 30x to match the same size view.

Again 15x50 viper hd binos vs 15-45x65 viper hd spotter

Glad I posted. This is really helping my decision alot.

Order of importance for me...

1. quality 8x or 10x binoculars with tripod

2. quality spotter

3. quality 15's

Whats weird is that I use my 15's the most of all my optics but they don't take the place of the 10's or the spotter but they compliment them both greatly.

bankwalker,

Here's a little twist. I have 7X50 for my walk around binos. Then the next one is a 10X50 if I am going to quickly look at distance. Next up is 15X58 when I am going to sit down and really look over an area.

I sold the spotters. When I find game I get behind the Swarovski z5 5-25X52 or the Leupold VX-6 4-24X52. Both of these are rifle scopes. When I find something I think I want to take a closer look at I already decided it is a game animal and may want to kill it. I want to get on it with the rifle, not another passive optical instrument.

Binoculars to find.......spotter to judge

I almost beat a guys ass once in Wyoming for looking at me through his rifle scope. I was pissed! Rifle scopes are used when you're ready to kill an animal, not for glassing IMO

You done it now Drum... Grin....

huntsonora,



You must be the baddest dude on the net! How close did you get to beat the guy? One hundred yards? How did you discover he was looking at you through his scope? With yours?

15's, nothing like a quality pair for spotting game.

15s for finding animals.

Kent

I got close enough to take his rifle away from him, take his picture and make him sign a statement saying he pointed a gun at me while trespassing on private property. Close enough? When he hopped the fence I watched him through binoculars and hollered at him to stop, that was when he pointed the rifle at me and kept it on me for a few seconds. His excuse was he didn't have binoculars. Didn't matter, our was ridiculous and aiming a loaded weapon at somebody is not smart

I'm more than happy to provide you with my clients phone number if you would like to call them. This happened almost 20 years ago but I'm sure they remember it well

Sure seems to me he said he uses his scope once he knows it's a game animal that he will potentially shoot.....not glassing searching for game through his scope.

I mentioned why I felt that wasnt the smartest idea and he went internet tough guy. You should buy the proper equipment for the job IMO.

thanks Art

huntsonora,



Who "went internet tough guy"? I suggested "you might be the baddest dude on the net." Maybe your memory is not as good as you thought.

My walk about hunting is done with 8x because after years of using 10's I find I have to Usually stabilize them with a rifle barrel or some other means; 8's give up little in magnification for me but I can hold them steady enough to be effective. But if I'm going to sit in a spot and really glass, it's the 15's on a tripod no contest. They also can be used effectively in a truck and on a window with the proper window clamp. With a spotter in this situation, I usually find there is just enough truck movement either from wind or me moving around to keep me from getting a good stabilized view. So again, for me, the 15's rule while hunting with the eyes.

I know what you said. Anytime somebody mocks somebody like you did with the "baddest dude on the net" statement you basically go internet tough guy. GFY and buy the right equipment for the job

I would say!!!!!!! We all would be surprised at How many times someone has had us in there rifle scope without us knowing.

huntsonora,



Whose the person who hijacked an optical thread to badger another poster and brag about "almost" beating up on another person? I do have the correct equipment. The stuff I have is to impress me, no one else.

From the outside looking in, I thought you sounded like a smartasss too Ringman. Sorry.

I lean toward 7X bino's that appear to be relatively stable when hand held and I'm standing. These shake out game on the landscape level quick scans. Bino's above 7X and I have to brace up for some stability.

I need a spotter too though to judge distant trophy quality or count points. Also, when the bino's don't pick up on anything, the spotter and really stout tripod come out for those thorough and systematic searches of the landscape. For those searches though something in the 12 to 15X realm gives a bigger field of view. Crank one to 30 or 40X, and field of view is so small one will be there all day if he's doing a thorough search. In really hot seasons, however, spotters are almost worthless after the first hour of the day due to heat waves, especially across gentle or level terrain. Not quite as bad though with cross canyon or mountain to mountain views.

The comments on stable bino's are spot on. Resting them on boulders, logs, tripods, or whatever greatly improves their utility.

In big country I need both. In dark timber just the bino's.

Ok girls thats enough......I'm tougher than both you.

I went from 10 and 15x swaros to the 12s and the 80mm spotter. I feel I don't give up anything in finding game and get a much better look once located

Both -

15's to find and initial assess - Spotter to determine if he's 105" or 110" or 340" or 360"...

Rifle glass has one purpose, steering a bullet. Period.

10x binos
30x fixed spotter

AS you stated your not trophy hunting so a spotter is worthless get the 15's best you can afford and see what you've always been missing

GregW,



You might be surprised to discover your opinion does not establish facts. The group I know puts their rifle scope on game to determine if they are going to shoot or not. Everyone is a not trophy hunter. They want to know one thing only: Is it legal?

you need new friends.....

No chit.

I hunted with a guy who used his scope for bino's..........















Once

That's what binoculars are for. If they're so far away you need a 25x rifle scope to see if they're legal you need to get closer.

"Never let your barrel cover something you're not willing to destroy"

One of the Ten Commandments of gun safety. Doesn't matter if it's a person, doe or spike.
You don't sound like an Internet tough guy, more like an Internet dumba$$. IMHO of course.

My 7X binos can't show me the details the scope can. Not hard to understand.

Ringman you post was pretty simple to understand.....looks like nobody understood it I guess.

Pretty simple so I'll dumb it down for everyone

Step 1. Glass up game with 7x binos.
Step 2. Decide if it's a game animal you're after.
Step 3. Decide if it's a buck or doe.
Step 4. After determining if it's potentially an animal to kill proceed to step 5.
Step 5. Grab rifle to glass with rifle scope AND take shot.....

Ringman is not going around scanning the hillside with his rifle. He never said he was.

You have absolutely no clue.....About anything.

I have unintentionally done exactly this.

Found a buck I thought was legal through my 8x binos. Got all setup to take the shot. And as soon as I got my scope (set at 10x) on it to take the shot I could see it was not legal....and after cranking my scope to 16x I could definitely see it was not legal.

I was 100% positive it was legal and ready to kill that buck. Never glassed it with my scope as a way to determine whether or not it was legal.

That sums it it nicely.

You should update your binoculars to a good set of 10's first

Ringman clearly stated that he uses his rifle scope in place of a spotting scope and those are used for glassing

The only two people that "don't get it" are you and Ringman

Pretty [bleep] clearly typed right here quoted from Ringman himself.....

Looks like the only people who DO get it is me and ringman

You must be a democrat, as you conveniently left out half the original quote. BTW, huntsonora and scenarshooter have probably forgot more about big game hunting, including optics, than you'll ever know.

If that's the case, you can end this thread and carry on with it via PM with Ringman. See what that gets you.

Bud, do you know what you are even saying and to who? Likely not so you get a pass....

I was trying to help in the other thread but you just go ahead and try to find some critters through that fuzzy donut hole you'll be looking through....

Yup.... sonora showed up to shoot some prairie dogs today with $1500 worth of guns.... and $6000 worth of optics. Sure is fun to watch pasture poodles get pummeled in HD....

Here's a hint 'walker..... anytime you find yourself using the phrase "Ringman and I are the only ones who get it".... you should kick yourself in the nuts....

I guess I can read between the lines. And understand the point Ringman was making.

But in classic 24hourcampfire fasion. You clowns destroy aNY topic ringman posts in.

I've been a member of this forum long enough and been lurking on it 3 times as long. I should have known how this would go.

You cant ask a simple questions and expect anyone's opinions to be left alone without 4 pages of people bashing eachother.

So I'll take my question elsewhere from bow on. So hopefully I'll get straight up help.

huntsonora,



I have a very nice 10X and a very nice 15X. I don't pack them in the woods where I use the 7X.

I don't understand all the PC stuff. A firearm is pointed somewhere all the time. On the way to the range or fields or woods it pointed at cars and houses and barns with people in them. I wouldn't be surprised if you holier than thou guys point your gun case with the firearm inside at others whether at the range or other places.

When you're in the woods or fields to you keep your rifle pointed at the passing airplane because it's on a shoulder strap on you shoulder? Or do you hold in one or two hands so that it's waving all over the woods and fields? It points at everything under the sun, including other hunters you may never see.

There is something you guys are refusing to get: I establish with the binos it is a game animal before I check it with the scope. But carry on.

It would take to much logic to understand that last point in your post. It was typed clear as day in your original post

Never mind the pass....

So in all of those years of lurking, have you read any of RM's other 17000 posts? I'm sure he's a really nice guy and all, but his, uh, "practices and procedures" can be a bit baffling at times IMO.

What's amazing is that I've never responded to a Ringman post and didn't have a clue that he had a history here of saying crazy stuff

A rifle scope is no substitute for a spotter, furthermore, I would much prefer to use a good set of 15's do do the job he's using his rifle scope for. I don't expect you or ringman to understand what I'm saying but a case in point is I would much rather have a set of 40x Doctor or Kowa optics than have a 70x spotter. My buddy that has a set of 40x Doctors and I fight to sit behind his glass rather than mine. The field of view, light gathering capabilities and depth perception smoke the spotter and the same holds true for his rifle scope and a set of 15's

Lmao!

This morning was a blast, thank you for taking me and thanks for helping me get those rifles dialed in

This thread has been full of win...from scoping things to blatantly ignoring and arguing with some pretty knowledgeable folks on the original question.

Az native here, and a died in the wool Coues deer hunter where optics MAKE OR BRAKE a hunt. Period.

I use Leica Duovids and a Leica spotter. The beauty about this, I dont have to decide about high quality 10s or 15s. However, I have seen this topic brought up about 1000 times and it always turns out the same. Guys recommend a quality pair of 8x or 10x for neck wear, and then top tier 15x for in the pack/spotting and I agree with this. IMHO, a lot has to do with the TYPE of hunter you are.

For instance, if you are like Scenarshooter and Greenhorn, who kill the absolutely biggest animals their unit has to offer, then the spotter takes on a great importance.

On the other hand, if you are like 90% of the others out there, all you are looking or is a mature, or subadult deer to hang your tag on a fill the freezer (I fit in this category), then the spotter is not necessary as trophy potential is not of top tier priority, spotting the animal and getting it on the ground is.

Like I previously mentioned, and has been said here already, switch power binos really take this question out of the line up and allow really anyone to have 3 pieces of gear in two packages.

I run :
Leica 10-15x50 Duovids
Leica APO 77 Televid Spotter
Leica 1200 LRF.

There's just something about the optics forum...things most always go sideways.

firstcoueswas80,

That's pretty much the system I use.

Once upon a time carried two binoculars, an 8x32 and a 15x, plus a spotter, but when the Duovids came out eventually settled on the 8+12x. Found the optics were good enough for the 12x end to have a definite advantage over 8x or 10x but the overall package was much smaller and handier than the 10+12x.

These days whether I also pack a spotting scope depends on whether I'm hunting meat or trophies. Used to do far more trophy hunting, but not as much these days, so just taking the Duovid(or even a straight 10x) is plenty. Don't even bother with a tripod for the binocular unless the spotter's along, as I always have some shooting sticks along and have found they steady the Duovid more than sufficiently when I'm sitting down.

I carry my good optics out with me, regardless of where, or what I'm hunting...there's no worse feeling than being back in 8 or 9 miles and wishing for your spotting scope, and tripod that you left in the truck to save carrying a little weight. Even if I'm out trying to fill a cow tag, my optics are with me. If I see a buck, bull, or bear, I want to know exactly what it is...I may go back and hunt that animal on a future hunt, or take a friend in for it.

Can't you just do that with your scope Pat? Grin...

Apparently you didn't get what he said any better than you did what I said. He didn't say he got on it to verify he was going to shoot at it. The animal was not a quarry at the time of the sighting. That is opposed to the idea I put my scope on one that is a quarry.

I'm just glad that when I was sitting on this hill, glassing the far slope.....



Looking at and filming this deer.....




....I had more than just a rifle scope with me

I just pissed my pants........

I retract my advice...

Kent

Wow.

How about some 25/40 X 100 Zeiss...

or some 25/62's.....

they misspelled über

Be there in 2 months!!!

Where's there?

Not "there" but above 11k feet...

If anyone's interested I'm selling some Minox bigeyes in the classifieds...
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10123874#Post10123874

Great suggestions on popular subject.
I find 12 x 50s more comfortable than
15X binos for long durations. But my
12 x 50 are german glass and 15x US
glass? Less eye fatigue and lighter
weight makes for easy 12 x 50 choice
when going light and only one piece
of glass goes in the pack.

OK, so glass is important, and support is also important.

I'm looking at 15x binos with a tripod and window mount.

About how much should I be looking at spending on support compared to glass? I'm probably looking at Minox 15 x 56. I have seen Vortex, Outdoorsman, and Manfrotto tripods recommended. I don't have a handle on what could be a good match between quality and capacity between the bino and the supprt. Cost is obviously pretty variable among those three. I'm not set on any of those, so offer others if you want.

I hunt elk, mule deer, and pronghorn. Judging trophy size to any level of precision is not that important. Finding and viewing game, and deciding if is decent enough to go after is more where I am at. I hunt mostly on foot a few miles from the truck. I'm not sure how much the setup will get carried and how much it will be used close to the truck until I try it. I use 10x or 8x handheld glass now and spend an hour or two a day behind it.

So, what do you guys recommend? Where do I get the best bang for the buck?

Slik sprint pro, about a hundred bucks, I run a velbon 157q head for another 50.00, the slik head would work.

Kent

I found using my Zeiss 10x Bino's worked better when supported by my shooting sticks and instead of holding them free hand.

I second the Slik sprint pro for an ultralight compact tripod. Obviously it's a little more wobbly in the wind compared to a heavier tripod, but a good option.

The biggest attribute to a glassing tripod is adjustable leg angles so you can sit under it. Stay away from a tripod that has the leg brace. From there there are all kinds of choices to be made. Carbon or aluminum? 3 leg sections or four? You can go as expensive as you like. For the most part, tripods branded by optics companies are more expensive than the exact same model made by the tripod company. Swarovski and Manfrotto for example. You don't have to buy a $500 tripod to be effective. Sunpak makes a carbon fiber tripod with a pistol grip head for approx $100. $150 at Bestbuy. The cheaper tripods might not stay as tight or last as long but if you're on a budget you can definitely get by with one. Sportsmans has a good selection or go to a decent photography shop and check different brands out then go online and find a good deal.

Here is a somewhat shameless plug:

If any one is interested in some nice 12x50's, I have a nice one listed in classifieds:

Cabelas ( Meopta) Instinct Euro HD 12x50

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10300282#Post10300282

I use a nice pair of 10x42s for an overview, then a compact spotter on a monopod for the details. Love the monopod, light weight with scope mounted, easy to carry, doubles as a walking stick when needed, dead steady. I even use it in the truck when collapsed, I could never get used to the window brackets for a spotter.

Don't know much about them, but the compact Swarovski spotters look very interesting.

I ended up with the Slik Sprint Pro and Minox 15x56. Took it out yesterday and it worked great.

Now I'm thinking I need a window mount setup. Any recommendations?

Bog Pod Bino Rest on my Leupold window mount.

The bog pod rest is great. I use one too. I do like window mounts that take the same adaptors as my tripod does though, and that's the only reason I don't own that Leupy window mount. It is very solid.

JG: That rest looks nice, and does it mount to a regular
1/4" Tripod screw?

It does Farmboy. I like it alot, and obviously any binocular will fit into it.