To a follow up on my previous topic. Which 15x bino is the best to get. I have $650 give or take dollars.
I'm gonna order demo/open box models from cameraland to save a bunch and put towards a tripod and adapter

I like the 15x50 viper hds. And also the 15x56 vulture hds. I really like the fact the vipers are light weight.
But they'll be mounted to a tripod more often. Do weight isn't important

I see enough difference in store to stuck with the vipers. BUT outside will the 56mm make a huge difference gathering light??

What other brands should I look at?

From trying several I sure would not go with the 15X50. If weight is a problem use a bino holder over your shoulders and around your chest.

Out of the 4 I have been able to get my hands on in local stores. The 15x50 is by far the best.... vulture hd 15x56 is second best BUT not close second.

The only other one I've found in my price range that even came close is a Basspro shops brand. Oculpus I think is the brand name and under $300.
It was every bit as clear as the vulture hd.

bankwalker,

Good to hear. You need to get what your eyes like. By far I think you should get the 15X50 since it is so much better and will be lighter.

These days the quality of optics is improving so fast that a far greater effort must be put into seeing the real differences. Set up a test sheet and actually look at the glasses side by side and you may be surprised how different things are under identical conditions.

The optics guy at the local Bass Pro a week or so ago tried to tell me their brand was being made BY Vortex... I am perfectly willing to accept them being made by the same manufacturer in the same plant, etc, but I doubt Vortex is actually making them...

Double your savings and get the 15x56 slcs...

Like buying a bad pair of boots.

Vortex can't possibly make them because they don't make anything, not even their own stuff. I like GregW's advice. Buy Swaro not only because it's as good as it gets, but if/or when you decide to sell you'll get most of your money back. You'll take a beating trying to get rid of certain other brands.

I can't buy expensive. No job at the moment and I've saved my pennies for a year to be able to make this purchase. Anything on the $500-650 range will be a huge investment and huge improvement over my current binos.

What kind of hunting are you doing sir?

The areas I hunt are steep mountains. No hiking...just driving logging roads. Most of the spots I sit and glass are 350-1300 yards. But 80% of that is 400-600 yards.
My 8x binos work ok for it to pick apart and find animals. But when I'm looking at 500+ finding bedded animals is a little difficult depending on light.

Last year I used my cousins cheap Simmons 20-60 spotter and it was great once I found the animal. It was horrible for finding them though.
I'm blaming the cheap glass though.

I'm not trying to count inches of antlers though. Just find game and know if they are legal.

Also alot of bear hunting. On the bear aspect I shot my first bear last year. Close to 300lbs. So now I will be after equal size or bigger. So quality glass will be needed for judging bear.
I hunt all the same types of areas for bear as I do deer.

If you're glassing less than a mile and mostly under 800 yards, a quality 10x or 12x on a quality tripod with a quality head (very important) IME will be a better tool for you than a pair of low quality 15's even for bedded animals if you are at least a decent glasser -

For 650 or under I'd go Minox (get the x 56's, not the x 58's) but I'd save the coin and go Swaro still -

Greg is right in your price range minox is as good as you will find. I used a pair of x58's for years and could see everything the swaro guys could

There's no way I could afford more expensive. It took me a year to save for what I have now. And I'd would be extremely happy with the upgrade I can afford now.

I bought a pair of the 15X50 Viper HDs. I only kept them about 3 weeks. Their main problem was the focus was very touchy and the focus wheel was gritty. It was damn hard to get a good focus at 500+ yards. This was of course from a tripod. I called Vortex and discussed it with them. They agreed that the Viper is "challenging" to focus easily at different ranges. They gave me a screaming deal to upgrade to the 15X56 Kaibab binos. The Kaibabs were much better but still were lacking in crispness and clarity. I sold them recently. I'll probably try the Meoptas next. I do not recommend the Viper HDs!

Bob

I recommend being patient and wait for a little better pair to show up used and jump on them.

Bob

GregW where are you finding Minox for that price.
Cameraland has Minox German bl 15x56 for $899 new or $774 open box/demo

I can relate to being frugal. My daily driver is 23 yrs old with 240K, no A/C, cruise and a stereo even an old dude would be ashamed of. Our house is 900 sq ft.

I do insist on the best optics I can't afford. I'd sell enough guns to get the Swaro 15s if I didn't already have 'em. Binos are the hunting tool you'll use more than anything else.

The clarity and especially the warranty of the upper end glass made me a believer.

Does anyone use or has used the Nikon 16x56? Outdoor life gave them a great review. They are $800+/- if I remember correctly.

GregW,



What's the difference in the two other than 2mm? What makes the 56 better?

Great advice IMO.

I have had both x58 and x56 minox the 58's are better glass the 56's are smaller lighter and a better fit for most. Wait a little while the 56's go on sale all the time.

azelkhuntr,



That was my experience. I still have the 58mm and the 56mm are gone. That's why I asked earlier what made the 56mm better.

Size ergonomics focus wheel thats about it

I've hunted the Vortex and Minox 15s. It's Minox hands down. Maybe Doug still has that open box deal going on.

I think you won't do better under $1K.

Trying to limit my comments to the OP's specs. I now own the Minox simply because I could not spring for the Swaros. But are the Swaros that much better? Probably.

When I compared my Minox 15X58 side by side with a Swaro 15X56 I graded the Swaro at 100 so I could give my Minox some kind of number to make sense. I rated the Minox at 97. To me they were that good. There were three of us making the comparison. One guy prefered the Minox and the other guy couldn't tell any difference. I guess it is individual preference.

One of your guys couldn't tell the differences between the minox and the swaro and the other didn't see a difference? Seriously?

GregW,



Sorry I wasn't clear enough. One guy prefered the Minox and the other couldn't see any difference. The guy who prefered the Minox is an experience shooter. The other guy may have hunted twice in his life and never looked through a binocular before.

I've noticed a common response from folks that would never dream of justifying big dollars on glass, eager to proclaim whatever lesser quality product it's being compared to as "just as good".

I'm not saying the price tag always justifies the performance but there are a whole lot of guys that have no issues in lying to themselves to satisfy their perspective.

True story.

I have no problem accepting the fact when something is better. You saw I rated the Swaro above mine. If I could afford them my 7X binos and my 15X binos would be replaced with Swarovskis. Swaro scopes are a different thing. After having four z5 there is no way they are as good as my Leupold VX-6.

I agree Ringman. Swaro binos rock....Swaro riflescopes not so much IME.

If you must have 15X consider the Nikon Action 7-15X35's.

I just compared them to Leupold 7X-12X switch powers and Hensoldt 8x56's and when you consider the price they are not bad to have around.

Nikon 7-15X's. $150!

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Holy fugk this website is awesome.




Travis

bankwalker,

I'm going to dissent from most opinion here over the past 15 years -- buy the glass you can afford when you can afford it and run it. If the time is right, buy it and save no more.

My Minox were less than $600 and they are very good. Why didn't I save for the Swaros? Because life is short, resources are finite, and seasons change. Learning to glass is the key to open country hunting and I wanted to get in the game.

There are only so many days when one is strong and circumstances allow for outdoor enjoyment. It's not about hardware. Hunting with your eyes is a whole new world of fun, and you will observe things you would have never seen otherwise. Things you would have missed waiting for savings to double, and quadruple. Glassing is more about skill than optics, if you start with a glass that is viable. Good glassers will outperform beginners on any glass. And nobody gets good without time behind the optic. Waiting for a heavier purse delays this.

Keep in mind that a 15x bino is a specialty machine which will require a good quality tripod. Like rifles and scopes, they go together. Only you cannot put a good 15 on a cheap tripod and get any performance at all. Tripods are simply a necessity.

So get your gear and enjoy it. If it does not pan out, sell it and recover some of your cash. By the time you know how to glass well, you may be able to afford better. Or you may decide to keep the good glass and buy,for example, a $750 landowner tag and chase an animal you would have otherwise never been been able to.

When my Minox were brand new, my hunting buddy, a new hunter and friend, and I found and chased good elk in amazing country for several days because of that glass. On another hunt it took hours of glassing the same 10 acres of mesquite desert to find a sleepy javelina that we eventually stalked and shot. It was classic American big game hunting made possible because I bought the best I could and used it.

Could I have found more animals with Swaros? Probably not. Would I be a better overall glasser with Swaros? Yes. Could I have gone to Alaska and fished for salmon -- twice -- if I made a habit of buying the very best gear every time? No.

So get solid quality and don't look back, look forward. When affording great glass is no longer such a big deal, you'll probably give these away anyway, and be the richer.

Savage_99,

These are way! better than almost everyone realizes. They used to be my favorites. A few years ago I found some deer about 1/4 mile away and turned up the magnification to watch them. Finally I realized I wasn't getting on them with the rifle and one was a good enough buck. By the time I got behind the rifle the deer were moving into the woods.

Right then I knew I was going to a fixed power bino. The other day I decided to compare the 7-15X with a 10X bino I really liked. There was just no comparison. The glass in the 7-15X is good enough that when I put it on a higher magnification the fixed 10X didn't have a chance. I did the same with the Minox 13X56. Again the glass was so good in the 7-15X the Minox could not stay with it for checking detail.

Of course the Minox will last longer in low light.

For those who think I cheated by putting the 7-15X on its highest setting I didn't. The others were on their highest setting also. It's just their glass is not good enough to beat out the 7-15X. If I was limited to one bino it would be the 7-15X. I would have to remember to get behind the rifle when I find game.

$150 glass is $150 glass. Period. End of story.

firstcoueswas80,



Some folks can't afford more than $150. There was a time when I couldn't even afford $150 for anything other than house bills. Times were hard for us.

Have you compared these $150 glass with anything? If you don't mind would you tell us of a better bino for the money?

The OP can afford more than $150 glass, fortunately.

For 15X tripod work, the Nikons above aren't a viable option. If you're saying that setting them on 15 will equal the Minox 15s, well, they just won't. Not even close. But if $150 is your glass budget, I'm sure a guy could find some deer with them. But if you need to find a piece of Coues deer buck under a bush a mile away, the Minox will get it done and the $150 glass will not. The Swaros will get it done better. It may be the 'Golden Age of Optics', but there's still no fairy dust that will make a $150 glass a $650 glass. Get behind them both in the field and within 30 seconds your eyes will be asking "Are you kidding me?". Probably 3 seconds. The information of merit you can get from looking at binos in the sporting goods store is regarding fit and ergos. You can't judge glass there.

I agree with your post. The optics thing is all about which
binoculars we use and for what purpose. A budget is very important for everyone on this site.
For many a nice 8-10x42 is the main binocular that is used
often and everyday.

I have a 15x58 Minox ED and I really like it. It is a very
nice binocular and mentioned above. I recommend it well for
those looking for this size.

I own 5 Swarovski binoculars, but I don't want or need a 15X Swaro. as I don't use this size often.

A good 10 x 42 glass will yield great results as a tripod rig, and if your tripod glass must serve as a neck glass, it's a good option. I'll take the 8 x 30 as a neck glass and a 15 on a tripod myself ... and I don't like hauling crap into the field any better than the next guy. It's just essential gear for what I do.

There is no question that each individual needs to purchase optics, or anything for that matter, with an assessed value based on quality and budget.

I used to own a set of Vortex Kaibabs and I felt they were 90% of the Swarovski 15x56's for half the price. The Minox will be in the same category. I personally love Meopta because the quality and price point make it an incredible value to me but have yet to look through a pair of their HD 15's. The Meostar HD 10x42's are absolutely fantastic glass and compare favorably to the "alpha" glass with a few trade offs. Fit and finish as well as weight are not as good. That doesn't bother me though and I LOVE my Meopta MeoStars

For anybody to say that the Minox or Vortex is optically equal or superior to Swarovski is insane IMO. They are either too inexperienced to know what to look for or they need to get their eyes checked. As mentioned previously some will try to justify a lesser glass because its what they have but there is simply no comparison

Best of luck finding what works for you

Agree 100% about Meopta. What are you waiting for....."have yet to look through a pair of their Hd 15's'???? Get with it!

I have a pair of the Swarovski SLC NEU's that I love

The newer Meopro HD 8x42 compare very will with Swaro 8x42 SLCs. I'd be curious if the 15x are as good... at a nice price range. Meopta is doing it right.

I have always felt that the MeoStars compared favorably to the SLC's but they are heavier and the fit and finish isn't up to par with Swarovski.

I have no reason to believe that the Meopta 15's won't be as good but when you start getting into higher magnification binoculars it gets tougher to get it right. That's why a cheap pair of 12's our 15's isn't the best idea but I get the budget issue

I get the budget issue but I would sale off guns to get quality optics.

See a lot of people that site the price of quality optics as a reason to not have them but have safes full of rifles.

100%'agree

I see the budget issue too. I also see a priority issue. Does a guy that has one or two tags a year, maybe a a couple of weeks in the field need $2500 glass? I guess that's up to him. I keep thinking the big three optics companies are gonna price themselves out of the middle class hunting market. I rely on my optics but I can't justify the price of new ELs or new geovids. Are they gonna help me find more critters? Probly not. Are they more pleasurable to use? Absolutely!! I say if hunting is your passion or priority, buy the best you can afford on proven products. If you can't afford the mid priced high powers IE Meopta minox,Vortex drop down in power. You'd be better off with proven optics, than cheaper higher x's ie 7-15x35s.

Good post NM......and, like you, even mentioning 7-15x35's in the spirit of this conversation is baffling.

A few weeks ago I looked at the Cabela's Euro 15x, Swaro 15x, and Nikon 16x. I wasn't ready to purchase, just curious, so I never took them outside under difficult lighting conditions. But still, I found the Swaros noticeably better than the other two.

Judging optical quality in anything other than field conditions is folly.

Regarding 15s, and tripod-based 'hunting' in general, the truly wonderful thing they do for you is yield a whole new world of outdoor experience. You will find yourself making special trips out all year long just to glass and see what's up. And you will discover a world that you only stumble through otherwise. In that way it's a lot like treestand hunting -- all sorts of bio plays out in front of you, and at close range.

With 15s, close range takes on whole new meaning. It's a little like learning archery in order to extend the hunting season, except better. Which is why I vote to get any good glass and sally forth.

Findings are findings. Evaluations done indoors are limited, as previously stated. I've looked thru enough optics to realize that dark optics indoors with low contrast will not work well outdoors.

On the other hand, something that looks good indoors, may not do so well in the "field"

Its not that difficult.

I disagree completely. A guy has to start somewhere and the 7-15X35 was my first step up. Like was stated, they opened a whole new world for me. $150 is nothing for a lot of folks here, but it is a 100% commitment to some. In fact some may have to save a couple months or more to get them. I know. I had to save for six months to get something like that at one time.

Not at all surprised.

A guy could roll some Coke bottles in a cardboard tube and call it a "place to start" too....

Just getting in the game doesn't make you a player. There's a reason they make and continue to sell $2500 binocs.... and it ain't because people like paying that kind of dough for "indesernable difference" or because they "look the same to my eyes".

I'd way rather have a set of used mid-grade 8x or 10x glasses for $150 than a set of new switch upower bins with Schitt glass for the same dough. I've got a set of 8x Monarchs that I've run for years.... I bought them outta the classifieds for like $100, I'd take them any day over the 7-15s...

How does one decide the glass is better in one than another? I can tell most of you guys have not compared optics, except on a tree or rocks.

I do it by comparing side by side on deer antlers 131 yards away in the woods and on eye charts 127 yards away. These 7-15X35 showed more detail than my Minox 13X56, but fell behind the Minox 15X58. When I compared them with some Swarovski 8.5X outside the store on an eye chart, it took a couple more X's to see more detail, but the glass is good enough to beat the Swaro 8.5X by merely turning up the magnification.

I will not argue that the view in the Swarovski's is not stunning. They were one of the few optics to give me the "WOW!" The other two were the first time I looked through a surveyor's glass when I was about eighteen and the other was when I first looked through the then new Bushnell 4200 4-16X.

There is defiantly some bad sh!!t in the Oregon water.

Looks like your state is as bad as Oregon for water. Both voted for Obama.

Eyecharts huh?

How do they do with glare, picking up an ear or antler flicker, an odd shape or an out of place shade of color?

LMAO! Are you being serious? Thats an honest question too...

Personally, if you can't tell on your "eye charts" or on deer antlers at less than 150 yards then step up and try to count growth rings on sheep at 3/4 mile while trying to decide if he has 15" bases or if they are closer to 15 1/2" bases or try to field judge a mule deer or elk to within inches from a mile or more away. Try doing this when light is not optimal or early or late. You should be able to tell instantaneously on your "eye chart" at 127 yards but after you visit your optometrist step on out to big country and you'll figure out really quick that you essentially brought a soup spoon to a gun fight with your 7-15x35's and your Swarovski rifle scope.

Your opinions on optics are so far removed from anything logical I have to believe you are joking

Great news for the OP!!!!!!!

WalMart has a pair of Vivitar 7-15x35 binoculars priced at 39.74. If you splurge on some windex and paper towels to clean them you might get your purchase to $50 which qualifies for free shipping

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vivitar-Zoom-Series-7-15x35-Binoculars/17473155

You are welcome...

dammit Drum, now there's gonna be a rush on them......

huntsonora,



Are you trying to convince us readers an 8.5X Swarovski is better on 8.5X than the 7-15X35 Nikon is on 15X for picking up detail? Or what are you trying to say they won't work as well as?

If an optic can't beat the 7-15X35 Nikon on an eye chart or deer antlers there is no way it is going to show you more detail in the hunting world.

huntsonora,



Are you seriously recommending these? Have you actually compared these with the Nikon 7-15X35?

I have to ask the same question.

Are you serious?

He damn sure is. I didn't think it was possible for somebody to be this fu**ing stupid but apparently I was wrong. He is literally comparing 7-15x35 Nikons to Swarovski binoculars and trying to convince people that the Nikons are superior.

I wouldn't believe this story if somebody told it to me but I've seen it with my own eyes. Unfuckingbelievable

If I had somebody show up to one of my camps saying the things he's saying I literally would not give them bullets because I don't trust anybody this stupid to walk behind me with a loaded weapon

Wow, the entertainment never ends...comparing 8.5 power to 15 power and stating you can see more details at 131 and 127 yards???? And Swaro vs. Nikon?

Where's the popcorn?!

I ask you the same question. Are you serious? You want us to believe you can see more detail with a Swarovski on 8.5X than a Nikon 7-15X35 on 15X?

I'm not saying the Nikons are better unless one can only afford something in that price range. Like I said, they are the only binoculars to give me the "WOW!" If I could afford them I would have them.

Before I switch to fixed power binoculars I found lots of game with the Nikon 7-15X35. I don't think you guys are trying to help the original poster by telling him to get Swarovski binoculars. You just like to read your own internet bullying.

Nobody is telling him he needs to buy Swarovski.

I would tell him I would take the Swaro you mention everyday that ends in y and twice on Sunday over your Nikon though.

SLM,



This post sure sounds like it to me. I suggest something almost anyone can afford and you suggest as pipe dream for most hunters.

Again I'm not surprised you missed the point.

There are lots of good choices out there.

Yours is not one of them.

Funny thing is I could out glass him with my Pentax 8s and him using his nikon 15s... hell I'd out glass him even if he had swaro 15s.

Folks thinking they can judge a bino in a store or broad daylight, looking at an eye chart or a truck on the other mountainside. I've seen it a dozen times... and they can't see a deer bedded 300 yards away... cracks me up.

Kent

Very true, Kent.

The term 'glassing' as it relates to 15s goes over most people's heads. And that's the crux of the issue. I find discussing glass on some people's level doesn't make them smarter and just makes me read dumb chit.

Kent

Though not quite 15x...would take a look thru the Kowa 12x56BDXD new around the $700 mark

As you stated, I find most who "glass" or claim to do so, don't really understand the terminology and, also, don't have the patience to do it correctly.

Here in AZ, I judge my hunting "buddies" by their willingness to deal with crappy/miserable situations with a smile and their glassing ability. I have been lucky to find many here who are joys to hunt with...

In fact, I will be helping on a lot of deer and elk hunts this coming fall...can't wait!

ETA: Didn't mean to hijack!

When I lived back east, I didn't get it either. I thought fielding $2000 binocs was simply diqque measuring. I was wrong. Tripod-based glassing is an art and a sport unto itself, and you don't have to have a tag to do it ...

Glassing is a learned skill, and cannot be bought. However, one can quickly become a solid glasser and have fun. An excellent glasser -- that's another story.

Kent,

I'd appreciate your thoughts on "glassing" and 15x binos. Target size, distance, terrain, and cover.

Jason

edit to add: where do you feel 15x would NOT work, as well.

15s are a philosophy, a way of hunting, covering ground with your eyes, finding animals otherwise not seen. Byproduct is you can observe animals and their movements/habits, also covering a large area scouting. I've sat and watched multiple herds of deer from one spot all day, watching them eat, bed, move with the shade, water, try to keep bugs off them, play, hide when a cat or human gets close, and feed again in the afternoon.

Nobody starts out with 15s being any good, self taught is the hardest and most quit. That was me. I returned to it a few years later and made myself 'see' the pattern. That was the middle 90s. If you can glass with someone experienced it'll advance the learning curve much faster.

I didn't glass with another glasser till '08, didn't know where I stood, I have an idea now.

The mind has to learn to see the pattern. Like where's Waldo, at first it'll take hours or maybe never unless someone points him out. Soon you can pick him out faster until it's easy.

At first glassing, you only find the same easy animals you did with 10s or 8s, out in the open or moving. You can see those animals farther out now.

The magic is when you find a bedded one, maybe the flies are around your ears and you notice a movement 800yds under a tree, it's a buck flicking his ears from the same bugs.

Or just the shape of a head, or back or legs in tree or antlers sticking above grass. You may have to stare at it for minutes till it moves a few inches to confirm... animals you would never find hand holding.

Pretty soon you sweep an area quickly for easy animals, then start investigating every shadow under bushes working in grids.

Anyway, size doesn't matter, I can see birds at half a mile easy. The hardest animal in az are coues deer, they blend in on open slopes, elk are lightning bolts and pronghorn are even more so. Mule deer are hard but have more black and white that stand out, javalina are short and can disappear in ground cover.

Terrain should be long and at least some open areas.

15s won't work in thick stuff close or far. I don't use them archery elk hunting where I hunt.

Now we could sit together all day on a mountain and discuss what we are seeing in just that one local, and not cover all the pros and cons and different scenarios. It's a large subject well beyond what bino to buy.

Here's some examples of glassing...

Coues deer



Water pond in a high wilderness bowl...





Mule deer flats...

800 yard bedded muley buck with 15s



There are over 15 bulls on that slope

Javalina way down in that bottom over half a mile away. I actually found them with my 8s quick glassing before setting up the 15s. So glassing isn't just one denominational, what skills you learn with 15s translate to less magnified also.

KRP,

Nice pics, and good info!

Which tripod and head is in the pic with the SLC- the pic with your back to us ( rocking the pink- red Jansport)? And also which tripod and head have you found to be the best for you? One more?- ever use a spotter, and which one. Thanks

- Stephen

My winnie the pooh bag was at the launderers...

That's my buddy's SLC and I think it's a Bogen/mannfrotto setup. I can't use the SLCs as my eyes are too close together... probably a reflection of my intelligence.

That's also a 15 year old new hunter killing her first big game. Here she is after the hike down and shot.

I backpack hunt mostly for coues and don't use a spotter. My optics with 8s or 10s and then 15s with tripod and then weapon put me at about 15 lbs. Add camp and water in this environment... No spotter for me.

Kent

Though here's a Swaro spotter my buddy had on that 800 yard muley. I stared that buck down for minutes till he moved his head with my 15s.

I use a light weight Slik pro tripod with Velbon head and also have a heavy weight Velbon tripod for the truck. As long as the head tracks smooth it's fine with me.

Kent

Kent,

Thank you for all the replies. And nice pics again- love the one with the big smile with the new hunter.

So, if you do not use the SLC's ( and yes I had heard they did not have IPD's low enough for some), which 15's do you like? I am thinking of adding 15's instead of my large spotter.

-Stephen

I have Steiner bighorns, don't know if they even make them anymore. preinternet, a guy had some 10x steiners that were great compared to my nikons. So I went steiner. They're an oddball in the 15 crowd but so am I.

Docter was another I considered, I've since compared the steiners and docters, I like the steiners better but could just be a familiarity issue, the docters aren't optically better.

The old Zeiss 15x60 would be a good one to find. Pretty much will have to find those porros used.

The worst 15s I looked through were the Zeiss 15X45s. The cheap Brunton or Vortex are better. Any of the big objective Roofs I really don't have a comparison. The new Swaros are supposed to fit eyes better, but at 58 I don't see a good return for the money on what years I have left hitting the wilderness hard. What I have is good enough. Like the guy with just one gun that he knows well.

My suggestion for those new to 15s is see if someone you know has a loner pair, go out and try sitting for a few hours looking for animals. It will amaze you or irritate the chit out of ya... then figure which one you want.



Kent

Good advice and insight, as usual, krp!

I know those SLCs! I too agree on the lightweight slik tripods for backpacking.

Regards.

Some very fun info here, guys.

Is the German Minox 15x56 noticeably better than the chinese made version?

Tell us more about where this model is made ?

If you think there were some changes where they
were made, tell us about it.

Thanks for the info and pics Kent. And I appreciate the comment on 15x binos in thick stuff.

I've had good success scanning with 7x binos on shooting sticks, but when its time to get serious I've used a 50mm spotter set at 25x. Earlier this year I upgraded the binos to 10x, but haven't settled on 15x or another spotter for longer distances.

Problem with many places that I hunt here in the PNWet is that close ground doesn't exist. On the coast, the vegetation is so thick that you "see" more game at distance than up close (i.e. across a drainage). In really steep arid canyon country there literally is no ground up close to glass as its near vertical all around And then, you're looking into dark ribbons of thick timber.

I've thought about 15x binos numerous times but nobody that I know uses them for the above as distances can be pretty far as noted. These are hardcore hunters that do a ton of glassing. And every time I've run my spotter its set on 25x while dissecting shadows. I used a 16x wide angle for a bit but never felt it had the reach for areas like the breaks of the Snake River or coast range.

What I see in your pics is more rolling terrain which is relatively open. And no thick ribbons of timber like the arid canyons here. No knock on you, I just think that we all tend to focus on optics that work in our home turf. I find that magnification from a spotter really helps to look "into" those dark shadows and see those vague outlines of deer and elk... in the thick ribbons. Numerous times I've turned my spotter down to 13-16x after spotting game in that timber but never felt confident that I'd have found them at those low magnifications.

Still, I'm open minded to 15x binos as I get fatigued using a spotter and maybe I would have good results with 15x even at those longer distances with both eyes open. But I always come away wanting more magnification, not less.

Anyway, thanks again for the posts.

Jason

Kent,

You turned this thread into one of the best posts I have seen on the Campfire. You not only answered the OPs question, but provided a substantial amount of context and for us simple people, some great pictures. I've done a good bit of glassing, but never with 12s or 15s. A pair of "Big Eyes" are definitely on my wish list, even if I never make it to hunt the SW.

Thanks for a great post that many will benefit from.

After Minox discontinued the 15x58 bino several years ago, they introduced the 13x56 and 15x56, both were made in china. The 13x56 had good reviews from those here that used them but they were discontinued. I never heard much in the way of reviews about the chinese made 15x56's when they were offered. Minox now makes the 15x56 in Germany at least that's how they're advertised by Doug and other vendors. I'm wondering if anyone knows if there were any changes in design/coatings/quality control between the chinese and German made binos to make one better than the other excluding place of origin.

The 15 faction was birthed here in Az for specifically finding hard to see deer in very rough country. My description of coues hunting is a poor man's sheep hunt. The advantage of glassing miles of country then formulating a stock for shot is self evident in my pictures.

Glassing with big binos for extended periods produces more results than with higher powered spotting scopes. I personally don't know anyone specifically using a scope in the same context.

Obviously there is plenty of country a 15 wouldn't work, but it can be used in some mule deer, elk, bear country and pronghorn no doubt.

So if the type area you hunt will benefit from 15s, can you stick with it until you are proficient. That truly is the hardest part. Of the guys I grew up hunting with and still hunt with, I'm the only glasser.

Even when two years ago I went with my buddy I've known since 7 years old, killed my first buck with years ago. He was drawn for the same unit, I went with him first morning and immediately glassed a big muley that he blew the shot on... even though he thought it was great what I can do, he doesn't want to do it himself.

I'm hesitant to tell folks, buy a 15, when I know most won't follow through because it doesn't fit their personality.

Kent

Good stuff....really enjoyed the pics. Those 15x's really have my interest as well, as I believe they'd be perfect for how I hunt in the wide open places I hunt mule deer. I've been using 10x42's forever, tripod mounted, along with a high class spotter......amazing how much more you can see with even 10x mounted on a tripod.

Absolutely, I used to recommend and forgot in this thread. Buy a decent tripod and glass with what you have. It'll be an eye opener and if you want to extend your range with 15s you'll be well ahead.

Kent

Our problem is that there is little elevation variance, and lot's of undulating country. We find the high spots and sit for hours......

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A visit to the home page of this forum will show an article
entitled (Big eyes, seeing is believing). Its an older article thats been there for quite awhile now. In PA where
i hunt and spend a good portion of my time, virtually all
long range hunting is done from fixed locations using tripod
mounted large binnoculars. The vast majority of hunters,
myself included use twin spotting scopes in machined adjustable brackets. After reading that article about 5 years ago i decided to order a pair of the 15x58 Minox that
had been used in the article. They have since been discontinued and replaced with a 15x56. I have quite a few
friends with large glasses including 2 having the 15x56
leica and 15x56 swarovskis. We did our own side by side test
with all alligned on the same objects at the same time.
Distances ran from about 400 on out to about 800 yds. All
who looked thought the Leica was slightly brighter than the
other 2 but the defination was no better. 3 out of 4 thought
it was pretty much a toss up over which was better for the
use we were testing for. The Swaro owner insisted his were
just a tad better. But even he admitted he wouldnt have
spent the difference after seeing the test we did.

Why 15s and not a spotter?

What Kent said ... you will find twice the game with half the fatigue using the 15s. And Swaros are not for everyone.

You haven't lived until you've glassed the same bowl at 850 yards for two hours, only to have a buck move his ears and reveal himself. It's just amazing. I can't imagine a tougher big game animal to glass in NA than the Coues buck. Like another friend said, it's like looking for cotton balls on a snowbank.

OP might want to check this out:

http://www.cameralandny.com/tripods/vortex.pl?page=vortexdakotatripod


It will do yeoman's work I predict.

That country looks tough to hunt... damn I like it.

Bet as you drive down the highway in country you'll never hunt, you notice high spots you could glass from.

Kent

I had a big Celestron 16x70 IF porro for review. One barrel was a little "off" and it was a bit picky to get both focused the same on the same spot. What I concluded was that the 16x with the binocular was at least as useful as 25x on a good 80 mm spotter. Others may be different, but I don't care for the strain on one eyed glassing. DOF pretty well sucks on higher magnifications, so the binocular vision is worth its weight in gold as far as I'm concerned.

Sent the bad unit back to Celestron and never heard back. It is freaking HUGE, but has good potential.

Another thing I am inclined to believe is big eye satisfaction is more related to how well the unit focuses for you rather than who made the unit. Proper focus in a shallow field is pretty valuable.

True story.

Look through a pair of 30x or 40x Kowa or Doctors and you'll never want to look through a spotter again but lugging them up the hill sucks

fwiw...the past models of the Swaro 15x56 had noticeable chromatic aberration for a premium bino, which the stargazers & birders pointed out via net reviews--they must have some pull...

The new HD version of the 15x56 is revamped and remedies that. Mine, now ours, purchased for use in CO, gets more play than I thought it would.

I like the focus and can use them handheld for short periods of time--judging whitetails quicklike in fields or looking at birds in the yard. The other 15s I have looked through are more difficult to do that with--and maybe that's just me or maybe it's part of the revamp Swaro did. My wife, who yearly teaches an astronomy course, had her hands glued to them recently instead of the Swaro 7x42 porros. She was using them handheld looking at the moon during the last full, but they really shine on a tripod for that.

I have two or three issues with buying a 15x

1. I am a tightasss. I will have to justify spending $2200
on the SLC HD's, or around $1000 on the Meopta HD's or
something comparable.
2. It will have limited use, as I do not have the luxury of
hunting as much as Drum, or some others. It would
primarily be a mule deer glass, in which we only have a
9 day season, but could do some serious scouting with it.

Well, turns out there are only 2 big issues......

now that my wife is using them, I feel no guilt...:)

glassing w/Drum once did it to me. Was actually thinking 12x50, but snagged one cheap(er). 12x strikes me as more multi-use, but the EP doesn't really contribute to that argument.

too bad Kowa doesn't make a 15x

Someone listed the big docters on CWT for like 4000.00 not to long back, probably still for sale.

I'd love to buy these Zeiss but they are way more than I can afford... and that's with not being able to find a comparable to judge the price. Then at about 40 lbs with tripod, I'd be afraid to pack them 10 ft without dropping 'em.

25X or 45X eye pieces.

I'm guessing they're worth 7 grand plus.

Good info guys. Thanks.

J

they sure make some interesting stuff

anybody try the bins?

Oberwerk

Nope, these are the original Zeiss Oberwerks copied, doubt if there are many in the US or anywhere else.

Kent

Yep, I've seen them (and looked through them) several times--they're Zeiss.

It really is hard to describe Coues hunting to those who haven't had the pleasure. Glassing, and correct glassing at that, is a major part.

Can't wait until my 2 friend's Dec. Wt tag. It will be a blast.

I know it's been discussed a bit, but does anybody have any experience with the Meopta 15 HD's? Do they have a 1/4-20 socket for tripod mounting like the Swaro's and Vortex's do. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on these over the SLC neu's but there isn't much info out there on them. The ergo's look very similar to what the Swaro's are.

This morning there are 3 Swaro 15X56 for sale in Coueswhitetail.com classifieds for 1400 to 1450 and 1 HD model for just over 2000.

The HD has really brought down the price of used nonHD at least for a time period.

Kent

fwiw...if you are shopping

I had these down for part numbers when I was shopping for one--each a "generation":

58091
58191
58192

IIRC:
The 58192 is current and would think the 58091 would/should be discounted next to the 58191. The 58191 is the NEU version.

KRP
Just how good are the Oberwerk Chinese copies 15x70 or so of the Zeiss glass ?

I don't know anyone that uses the oberwerks, that usually means something as everything is tested here. The main porros that are still used are Zeiss 15X60s and Docter 15s. Some Steiner senators and a few Fugi.

There's a balance of power, objective and then weight to carry. The Zeiss and Docter fit that balance as does my Steiner bighorns.

Kent

Are the Docters glasses friendly? I am afflicted that way.

They have the eye cups that flip down, I believe it's for wearing glasses.

There is also a pair for sale in the coueswhitetail.com classifieds. 650.00 I think. Has pictures.

Kent

Absolutely love my 15x swarovskis mounted on a tripod, get lotsa use here in Washington glassin thick clearcuts for bucks, $$$ well spent....

The Docters on Couseworld have sold. A very good buy.

I would like to try glassing with high power binoculars. To start with, I plan to use my Leica 8-12 set on 12. All of my glassing will be less than 800 yards in West Texas. Most at half that. But I don’t know what to look for in a tripod and head.

What do you guys use and why? I am not looking for the best, just a good setup to get started with.


Thanks for your help,

Richard

15X Swaro's at work....a really nice black bear showed himself here, about 10 minutes after I snapped this picture. We made a play on him, but ran out of daylight. Probably wouldn't have seen him without them. It's a good possibility he's the same bear I killed this spring, almost exactly a year later..

Are those the same ones you were using to spot hits on steel waaaaaay out there at the IB?

They are. IMO, the ultimate for spotting shots on long range steel. Bullet trace is really easy to follow with them....way better than a spotting scope.

Even little girls like to use them.

I'm a believer.

I use the Manfrotto 222 squeeze grip head, on top of a Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 tripod.

I'm in the same boat. I've a hunt coming up where the 15x will be most useful. Going the rental route. Swaro 15x56 HD including tripod is $180 per week which includes shipping both ways ($20 per day, $40 shipping which includes prepaid return label).

http://www.optics4rent.com/productdetail3.html

Thanks for the link ctsmith......good info. I wasn't aware of this alternative.

Fantastic info!

What about the Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56?

There was a pair on coueswhitetail a day or two ago, David.

Clint, those are cheap rental prices. A local place is much higher.

KRP:

Do you or anyone else have any experience with the Fujion 15x60 HB roof prism binos?

That's a heck of a big squeeze grip there Pat. <grin>

Just an opinion but big binos are not all about power.
Super quality glass clarity finds horn.
For example Mule Deer hunting in the desert it is more
about staying behind your binos for extended time. Harder
to find but by far best value I have found are 12 x 50 Aus
Jenas $500 - $700. Check em out, they are worth the search.
Even better are decades older East German Jenas but few
around guys do not sell.